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[adamsapple]

MS got caught last gen with the whole #XB1MS13 scandal. They're all for buttering up their most delusional. I think they're being really choosy about who reviews their games too. Their biggest games get less than half the reviews of a big playstation game.

Almost all major publishers have various outlets on blacklists for not giving favorable reviews. Including all the platform holders as well.

And to your second point, it's just flat out wrong. Their big games like Gears 5, Halo: Infinite, Horizon 5 all have 100, 150 critic reviews just like Sony's on OC. (I'm not referring to MC because it breaks reviews by platform and Xbox published games get split between console and PC, GoW: Ragnarok by comparison has only 2 reviews on PS4 and the rest on PS5).

The only recent Xbox published game that got low number of reviews was Grounded, but then again that's because it had been in open access for almost a year before its 1.0. So it wasn't exactly a typical release either.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

They were paying YouTubers for positive and/or neutral coverage of the Xbox one. They'd put that tag in their posts to get the credit.

It's the reason a pretty big video game YouTube site went under. I can't remember the name atm.

They actively recruited certain reviewers to be pro Xbox as well

 

[Rykan]

Why would I look foolish? My statement would be just as true in that case as it is now. The majority of players that will play the game are currently completely unaware of the current discussion. Just like puddle gate and other incidents before. Step out of the ultra enthusiast bubble and get some fresh air.

We see the size of the hubbub about the Harry Potter game and then saw the real world results. Now look at this blip in the news cycle for comparison. However the game ultimately fares, being 30fps isn't going to be the catalyst for any problems. The campaign of Gears 5 was 30fps for crying out loud.

Gotham Knights at 60fps would not have been a miracle cure for that game either.

Comparing a game from Arkane to a game like HL is a bit of a stretch, mate. Hogwarts Legacy is a game that has broad and mass appeal. Arkane is a "Niche" developer that appeals precisely to the gaming enthusiasts that would care about something like this.

Gears of War 5 came out in 2019 for the Xbox one. We're now into the third year of this console generation, during which 60 FPS modes have become the norm and expected. Gears 5 now runs at 60 FPS on far more platforms than it does 30.

Besides, Gears 5 is a Third Person Shooter. Even previous gen, most First Person Shooters ran at 60 FPS.

 

[j0hnnix]

Which one of you made this??

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Which one of you made this??

These are great and even keep Colt Eastwood in the room

 

[Justin9mm]

 

[adamsapple]

Which one of you made this??

Haven't seen this meme format in years, what a throwback.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Which one of you made this??

 

[vaibhavpisal]

The footage so far has all painted a genuine open world, not a corridor fest ala Crysis 2, if that's what you mean.. Redfall's world is 27k square meters, i-e around 17 square miles. For reference, Skyrim is 15 square miles, and despite Ubisoft boasting a 1 : 1 recreation of DC, the playable areas of The Division 2 are 11.4 square km (around 5 square mile if google is to be believed).

It's a pretty big game world and un-tethered 4 player co-op would naturally incur some cost. Cost enough that they haven't been able to get it to 60 at launch but will likely make necessary CPU culling related cuts to get it there via updates.

It's bigger than Skyrim? Damn.

I thought it was much smaller cause they were touting no handholding or map markers. And a small but focused world.

Let's see how it turns out. A lot of stuff we don't know about the game. Hopefully it's fun.

 

[Balducci30]

It's bigger than Skyrim? Damn.

I thought it was much smaller cause they were touting no handholding or map markers. And a small but focused world.

Let's see how it turns out. A lot of stuff we don't know about the game. Hopefully it's fun.

Huh? It can't actually be bigger than Skyrim can it? That sounds absurd

 

[skit_data]

One thing I came to think about during this "controversy" or whatever you may call it:

Xbox really need to start stating what platform their game is running on. I'd say it's very important to do so given their day and date PC/Console release strategy. I think it could save them some headache/bad PR while also being a consumer focused approach. One might say not doing so could even be considered (oh god no, not that word) anti-consumer not cool.

Playstation has done so for a couple of years and they don't even have that clear commitment to PC (outside of 3rd party exclusives). Digital Foundry has praised them for doing so while asking Xbox to do the same.

 

[DenchDeckard]

If anything I am more of an Xbox guy and I personally think Redfall should be delayed until they get the 60 patch

And Starfield...

Totally agree

This is gold! Love Gary

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah, Arkhane needs to step up their game. TBH, i remember Dishonored 1 looking absolutely stunning on PC. Id put it up there with Bioshock Infinite and other big third party releases. For whatever reason, they've kinda leveled out after that. Prey and Dishonored 2 barely looked better than Dishonored 1 on PC. Everyone else got a next gen boost while they just said fuck it, our fans dont care about visuals. Deathloop was so forgettable it didnt even make the top 20 NPD charts in 2021 despite being critically acclaimed and having Sony shove it down our throats for two goddamn years. PS5 owners expect more visual flair from their exclusives and ive no idea why Jimbo thought Deathloop would be something we'd be interested in.

Dish2 looked much better than dish 1 on pc, you may have a bit of confusion.

 

[Stare-Bear]

Which one of you made this??

"Don't worry Anna, we still have Gamepass...."

 

[M1chl]

People who tries to push "majority people won´t know it isn´t 60FPS" is such horseshit, why tf you think COD become so popular. 60FPS games in a flood of almost-30FPS. It plays better, people notice. We are two gens from that and we still have that shit being pushed.

 

[kikkis]

People who tries to push "majority people won´t know it isn´t 60FPS" is such horseshit, why tf you think COD become so popular. 60FPS games in a flood of almost-30FPS. It plays better, people notice. We are two gens from that and we still have that shit being pushed.

Its true, I counted couple of years ago top 10 most played games on xbox, and 6-7/10 were 60 fps titles. Too lazy to do it right now, but its still probably true.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Its true, I counted couple of years ago top 10 most played games on xbox, and 6-7/10 were 60 fps titles. Too lazy to do it right now, but its still probably true.

There you go.

It's even higher than 60-70%.

 

[Zuzu]

Which one of you made this??

"Don't cry Anna we still have Gamepass"

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

No worries mate, everything 60fps (and above) looks s-p-l-e-n-d-i-d !

Also, while you're gonna get blasted if you even dare to.mention it on online forums, Frame interpolation IS a - not a fix - but an option for non twitchy games.On a LG OLED, you have to exit the "game picture"mode and also deactivate VRR from your console to be able to use it though otherwise the menus on the TV will be greyed out.
There's also black frame insertion (BFI) but, on my C2 it dims the picture so much that I just have turned it off.

Not to worry, the OLED hype is real (not so much though if you're coming from a plasma TV).

Cheers

PS : which one did you get ?

Thanks for the tip and yea, I'm not a hardcore graphics person or any shit like that so I'll try that if it ever bugs me to that degree!

55" LG C2 is what I bought. Is the actual option called Frame Interpolation in LG settings?

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Thanks for the tip and yea, I'm not a hardcore graphics person or any shit like that so I'll try that if it ever bugs me to that degree!

55" LG C2 is what I bought. Is the actual option called Frame Interpolation in LG settings?

Another C2 bro - one of us, one of us !

The frame interpolation settings are called "True motion" on LG sets and can be found in the "clarity" sub-menu of the general "Picture" settings.
Tip : you can't use it when you have selected "game mode" from the picture settings since the menus will be greyed out, instead, you have to choose standard/cinema etc AND also have VRR turned off in the console's system options in the "display" sub-menu.

Again, there's gonna be some artifacting (usually around the character) and higher input lag (by 70ms if I'm not mistaken) but, for games like Mafia and other 30fps ones it's kinda OK since you don't need an Uber fast response in those.

Cheers and...welcome to the OLED party

 

[AGNT4SD6]

Did they say if @ 4K 30FPS if they are gonna have any Ray Tracing included or is that not even a thing with this as well?

 

[01011001]

Did they say if @ 4K 30FPS if they are gonna have any Ray Tracing included or is that not even a thing with this as well?

no RT, but 4k.

given that's it's UE4 I almost bet it's a dynamic resolution tho

 

[Heisenberg007]

Did they say if @ 4K 30FPS if they are gonna have any Ray Tracing included or is that not even a thing with this as well?

No RT confirmation yet.

Also, I'm pretty sure it won't be native 2160p at 30 FPS. The resolution will most likely be less than 4K. I'm expecting a dynamic range that mostly hovers between 1440p to 1860p/2160p.

 

[SportsFan581]

Comparing a game from Arkane to a game like HL is a bit of a stretch, mate. Hogwarts Legacy is a game that has broad and mass appeal. Arkane is a "Niche" developer that appeals precisely to the gaming enthusiasts that would care about something like this.

Gears of War 5 came out in 2019 for the Xbox one. We're now into the third year of this console generation, during which 60 FPS modes have become the norm and expected. Gears 5 now runs at 60 FPS on far more platforms than it does 30.

Besides, Gears 5 is a Third Person Shooter. Even previous gen, most First Person Shooters ran at 60 FPS.

The size/success of the game doesn't matter at all here in this discussion. What was being discussed was if this kind of online hubbub is of any consequence to the average gamer, and the simple fact of the matter is it isn't, never has, and never will be.

Social media gives a megaphone to a very vocal minority that do not reflect the opinions of the whole properly. Whether it's this game being 30fps, or puddle gate in Spider-man, Harry Potter, or PS games coming to PC, etc. all that is meaningless to the real bottom lines. Basically just brats having temper tantrums.

Also, there could be some sad days ahead for you as we transition away from cross-gen, it has to be said. The CPUs in these consoles are still relatively weak links thanks to a very small amount of L3 and lowish clocks by today's standards (though obviously much better than last-gen), that will come home to roost with time.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

Another C2 bro - one of us, one of us !

The frame interpolation settings are called "True motion" on LG sets and can be found in the "clarity" sub-menu of the general "Picture" settings.
Tip : you can't use it when you have selected "game mode" from the picture settings since the menus will be greyed out, instead, you have to choose standard/cinema etc AND also have VRR turned off in the console's system options in the "display" sub-menu.

Again, there's gonna be some artifacting (usually around the character) and higher input lag (by 70ms if I'm not mistaken) but, for games like Mafia and other 30fps ones it's kinda OK since you don't need an Uber fast response in those.

Cheers and...welcome to the OLED party

And also thanks a lot for the info. Like I said, I often overlook and/or don't even notice performance issues in games so I think this'll work great for me.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Which one of you made this??

You know what's funny/ironic ? That the most comical thing about the video is that it's all true, pure, straight facts no matter how some people try to friggin' spin it.
I too, like Hitler, ordered a PS5 after the absolute 2year+ no show from MS, got tired of waiting all those promised games after having spent 500 Eurodollars and another 400+ re-buying titles i had already played on the PS4 as to enjoy them at better framerates.

In my opinion, MS (the Xbox division to be more precise) has to be one of the most mismanaged BIG companies out there, they can't play the COVID card nor the "tools" one anymore, it's been 2+ years ffs, and what do they have to show ? A mediocre looking FPS that looks like it came straight out of 2015 (if that) which should be running at 60fps at the very least, Starfield which...from a creative point isn't even "theirs" and we all know how Bethesda RPGs fare when it comes to the technical department (that's gonna be another "Framerate-gate®" come release date IMO), Darktide WH 40000K (one of the reasons i got the XSX for) which - basically - got cancelled for the time being on xbox since they're trying to "re-tune" the whole game after all the backlash on PC, EverWild which God knows when it's coming (or if it's coming), Fable reboot...yeah, 'nuff said - and the same exact thing regarding Perfect Dark and the Indiana Jones game.

It's like, they keep stumbling on purpose for fook's sake and it's a shame, i WANTED to play Darktide, i WANTED to play Everwild, i WANTED to play the new Fable, i WANTED to try Perfect dark i wanted...to have some tight, MS exclusives dammit, remember the OG xbox ? You had the Panzer Dragoon Ortas, The dead or alive games, the best action-game of all time (Ninja Gaiden Black), the Otogis, Jet set radio Future, Shenmue 2, KOTOR games etc etc - there's NOTHING of that on the XSS/XSX, it's mostly been promises from the biggest PR snake oil salesman in the industry (after Randy Pitchford) for 2+ straight years and yet, you see all these users trying to defend...what exactly ? Papa Phil's and MS's "honor" ? Why ? They paid for their plastic box and they're also paying for their subscription service, if anything, they should be more critical and demanding after the continuing no-show(s) and PR spins.

And boys, this has got nothing to do with "wars" or "fanboyism", again, talking about myself at least, when i go and spend a respectable amount of money i have some basic (at the very least) demands both from the hardware i'm buying AND the company itself which produces X product (i.e : after sales/customer support etc etc), if i'm not happy anymore as a customer i'm jumping ship, it's as easy as that, i don't owe anything to anyone - especially when we're talking about multi-trillion companies.

Yes, this 30fps thing regarding Redfall is getting a little bit long in the tooth right now, i mean, it is what it is and it's not the 1st nor it's gonna be the last time this thing happens, let's put it to rest already...
Always in my honest opinion though, this whole thing doesn't have to do with Redfall at all but...with Microsoft - people are just tired of all the PR BS, constant delays, vaporware and sub-par experiences generally speaking (bar a few exceptions like Hi-fi rush, Forza Horizon etc), and you know what ? It's a damn shame since MS really started well this gen with features like backwards compatibility which goes 3 generations back, quick resume and smart delivery gaining lots of goodwill (and rightfully so) but, software IS king at the end of the day and promises can only take you so far.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

EverWild which God knows when it's coming (or if it's coming), Fable reboot...yeah - and the same exact thing regarding Perfect Dark and the Indiana Jones game

All of those games were presented way too soon. They can be vaporware or cancelled if they do not work out. Microsoft just gave a 2020 show full of CGI. But at least they tried. And still are trying.

Perfect dark has Cristal dynamic to help them. Fable reboot is from one of Xbox best teams. That one will work out, or it will be stopped in time. They can be trusted. Everwild is the one we have the most bad news about, with many directors leaving and rumors that they don't know what the game is. It happens. We will have to wait and see. Like the last guardian, if the idea is good it will work. Even if we have to wait 10 years for it.

The most important one is the Indiana Jones for me. That one got just a teaser so no wrong expectations possible. Good IP, and good game examples of it with Uncharted and Tomb raider. That one can work well and I am waiting for it. But it takes time, and good for you to have a PS5 in the meantime. I don't mind Microsoft failing at making games as long as some of those games succed. Recore or Crackdown are old examples now. We will have more of that in the future. Like Sony and Nintendo failed and will continue to fail in the future too.

Edit: i pushed the publish button too soon so most of what I wrote was with the edit.

 

[aries_71]

It certainly is disappointing news for all. Let's at least hope the game is good. I think we all knew, or at least suspected, that the longer the generation went through, the more 30 fps only titles we would see. It really looks like modern AAA games engines are power hungry, and current gen may have been born a lot weaker than we initially thought.

 

[Chiggs]

Seems a chorus of Xbox fans are venting displeasure......and not just about Redfalll:

On Xbox, caveats, and mismanaged expectations

The Redfall controversy is another example of Xbox seeding snippets of disappointment.

www.windowscentral.com

Good article. Completely fair in its assessment. I think the Xbox group is just devoid of true talent, and passion won't overcome that.

 

[SpokkX]

30fps is not playable anymore imo

It feels like shit - especially in games with lots of camera movement like fps

 

[Astray]

Social media gives a megaphone to a very vocal minority that do not reflect the opinions of the whole properly. Whether it's this game being 30fps, or puddle gate in Spider-man, Harry Potter, or PS games coming to PC, etc. all that is meaningless to the real bottom lines. Basically just brats having temper tantrums.

You're forgetting something critical here, Puddlegate or Harry Potter controversies etc didn't matter because the games were also heavily promoted to normies.

As far as I can tell, the entirety of Redfall's promotion has been online-based, which means that in this case, online perception might end up mattering because online is the only way anyone can hear about the game!

 

[ungalo]

Yes, this 30fps thing regarding Redfall is getting a little bit long in the tooth right now, i mean, it is what it is and it's not the 1st nor it's gonna be the last time this thing happens, let's put it to rest already...
Always in my honest opinion though, this whole thing doesn't have to do with Redfall at all but...with Microsoft - people are just tired of all the PR BS, constant delays, vaporware and sub-par experiences generally speaking (bar a few exceptions like Hi-fi rush, Forza Horizon etc), and you know what ? It's a damn shame since MS really started well this gen with features like backwards compatibility which goes 3 generations back, quick resume and smart delivery gaining lots of goodwill (and rightfully so) but, software IS king at the end of the day and promises can only take you so far.

I think the same. Fanboys will always have an answer for everything, but it's not even the issue. Anybody can see the full picture, i don't even see the point of arguing about Redfall's 30 fps at launch, it's almost insignificant.

And i would give them even less credit than you on the hardware part honestly.

 

[Heisenberg007]

It certainly is disappointing news for all. Let's at least hope the game is good. I think we all knew, or at least suspected, that the longer the generation went through, the more 30 fps only titles we would see. It really looks like modern AAA games engines are power hungry, and current gen may have been born a lot weaker than we initially thought.

No. 95% of the games run at 60 FPS or more on these machines now.

Current-gen consoles are plenty powerful and should not be blamed for this.

 

[Rykan]

The size/success of the game doesn't matter at all here in this discussion. What was being discussed was if this kind of online hubbub is of any consequence to the average gamer, and the simple fact of the matter is it isn't, never has, and never will be.

Social media gives a megaphone to a very vocal minority that do not reflect the opinions of the whole properly. Whether it's this game being 30fps, or puddle gate in Spider-man, Harry Potter, or PS games coming to PC, etc. all that is meaningless to the real bottom lines. Basically just brats having temper tantrums.

Also, there could be some sad days ahead for you as we transition away from cross-gen, it has to be said. The CPUs in these consoles are still relatively weak links thanks to a very small amount of L3 and lowish clocks by today's standards (though obviously much better than last-gen), that will come home to roost with time.

The audience of the game absolutely does matter when discussing the relevancy of issues such as frame rate. You've sorted people who play video games into two different groups: Those who engage in online discussion/discourse and the "Average gamer", which you've assigned a bunch of opinions that does not appear to be based on any facts or logic at all.

A person that doesn't play a lot of video games and plays Hogwarts Legacy because s/he likes Harry Potter is likely to have very different expectations than a person playing co - op shooters or a person that is familiar with the type of games that Arkane makes. It doesn't make any sense to brush them into one large group. They aren't the same.

Even if we were to make a portrait of the "Average gamer", what is the argument that the "Average gamer" doesn't care about Frame rate based on? Look at the Xbox 360/PS3 days. Look how many multiplayer focused shooters came out on those platform and yet, by total coincidence I'm sure, the one that ran at 60 FPS captured the crown.

Look at the most played games. Xbox shows the most played games on the platform: They all play at 60 FPS. Developers are releasing 60 FPS patches for older games aimed at enthusiasts and "Mainstream" alike. Why? Because frame rate matters. Even if you were to argue that it's not going to stop this "Average gamer" from trying the game on his Gamepass subscription, it is going to impact his enjoyment of the game and, in turn, will influence whether he sticks with the game or whether to go back to Call of Duty, Apex, Warzone, Fortnite or any of the other insanely popular multiplayer games that run at 60 FPS instead.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Seems a chorus of Xbox fans are venting displeasure......and not just about Redfalll:

On Xbox, caveats, and mismanaged expectations

The Redfall controversy is another example of Xbox seeding snippets of disappointment.

www.windowscentral.com

Jezzy fizzle delivers in this article

"It's simply untrue to say Xbox hasn't delivered high-quality games more recently, though. They might not be headline-grabbers like The Last of Us or God of War, but nobody can deny the quality offered by titles like Flight Simulator, Age of Empires IV, Grounded, Sea of Thieves, and so on."

 

[Fake]

I also laught when John from DF said on twitter that will be hard to Unreal Engine 5 games to run at 60 frame rate at launch because is a new engine and lumen... until the reply remind him that this game use Unreal Engine 4.

 

[diffusionx]

Jezzy fizzle delivers in this article

"It's simply untrue to say Xbox hasn't delivered high-quality games more recently, though. They might not be headline-grabbers like The Last of Us or God of War, but nobody can deny the quality offered by titles like Flight Simulator, Age of Empires IV, Grounded, Sea of Thieves, and so on."

Flight Sim and AoE4 are both great games, although obviously PC-centric. AoE4 is the one game I bought when my GP sub ended. Yet I will certainly deny the quality of Grounded, Sea of Thieves, and "so on."

You know what's funny/ironic ? That the most comical thing about the video is that it's all true, pure, straight facts no matter how some people try to friggin' spin it.
I too, like Hitler, ordered a PS5 after the absolute 2year+ no show from MS, got tired of waiting all those promised games after having spent 500 Eurodollars and another 400+ re-buying titles i had already played on the PS4 as to enjoy them at better framerates.

lol I'm dying here. But seriously once someone invests in a console and then has to buy another console it's completely ogre for the first console in their mind. Reminds me of people who had to buy a PSX when Saturn shit the bed, they were never buying a Sega console again.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Flight Sim and AoE4 are both great games, although obviously PC-centric. AoE4 is the one game I bought when my GP sub ended. Yet I will certainly deny the quality of Grounded, Sea of Thieves, and "so on."

Totally agree, but it does show you how lacking the lineup has been for going on 18 months now

Hopefully Redfall can start turning that around to some degree but it feels like another Deathloop situation all over again

"Not bad, not great, doesn't do enough to move the needle where MS wants it"

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I also laught when John from DF said on twitter that will be hard to Unreal Engine 5 games to run at 60 frame rate at launch because is a new engine and lumen... until the reply remind him that this game use Unreal Engine 4.

The DF crew really needs to stop playing armchair developer, conjuring up fantasies for why games look a certain way

Especially Alex, these takes are insufferable and filled with wild assumptions and no insight into what's going on with the engine or dev team

 

[Fake]

The DF crew really needs to stop playing armchair developer, conjuring up fantasies for why games look a certain way

Especially Alex, these games are insufferable and filled with wild assumptions and no insight into what's going on with the engine or dev team

Well, most of them play safe because devs usually reply their email and leak some stuff, so they always will be on the side of the dev since 'asking for a decent game is aggressive and bullying is bad' card.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

All of those games were presented way too soon. They can be vaporware or cancelled if they do not work out. Microsoft just gave a 2020 show full of CGI. But at least they tried. And still are trying.

Perfect dark has Cristal dynamic to help them. Fable reboot is from one of Xbox best teams. That one will work out, or it will be stopped in time. They can be trusted. Everwild is the one we have the most bad news about, with many directors leaving and rumors that they don't know what the game is. It happens. We will have to wait and see. Like the last guardian, if the idea is good it will work. Even if we have to wait 10 years for it.

The most important one is the Indiana Jones for me. That one got just a teaser so no wrong expectations possible. Good IP, and good game examples of it with Uncharted and Tomb raider. That one can work well and I am waiting for it. But it takes time, and good for you to have a PS5 in the meantime. I don't mind Microsoft failing at making games as long as some of those games succed. Recore or Crackdown are old examples now. We will have more of that in the future. Like Sony and Nintendo failed and will continue to fail in the future too.

Edit: i pushed the publish button too soon so most of what I wrote was with the edit.

But, Daneel, brother, you're proving exactly the point i'm trying to make : "they tried/are still trying", "they can be trusted", "it will work out", "no wrong expectations possible" etc etc, it's all based on hypotheses and goodwill after 2+ whole years, it's exactly what i'm saying...

Don't get me wrong friend, i'm not having a dig towards you, it's just that some customers/users (like i) are/were just fed up and jumped ship, i know it takes years to make games nowadays but, mismanagement is just that, mismanagement, i could care less if they showed a (CG) trailer too early, that's not my job to worry about it, my job is to give them money as a consumer and theirs is to provide me with a steady stream of (quality) content and so far, they weren't able to do so, i don't care if these now fabled exclusives are coming, it's the "when" that counts and i was just sick and tired of the constant no-shows, i didn't pay 500 euros to keep waiting for years, it's their job to keep me as a customer.

Cheers friend

 

[SportsFan581]

The audience of the game absolutely does matter when discussing the relevancy of issues such as frame rate. You've sorted people who play video games into two different groups: Those who engage in online discussion/discourse and the "Average gamer", which you've assigned a bunch of opinions that does not appear to be based on any facts or logic at all.

A person that doesn't play a lot of video games and plays Hogwarts Legacy because s/he likes Harry Potter is likely to have very different expectations than a person playing co - op shooters or a person that is familiar with the type of games that Arkane makes. It doesn't make any sense to brush them into one large group. They aren't the same.

Even if we were to make a portrait of the "Average gamer", what is the argument that the "Average gamer" doesn't care about Frame rate based on? Look at the Xbox 360/PS3 days. Look how many multiplayer focused shooters came out on those platform and yet, by total coincidence I'm sure, the one that ran at 60 FPS captured the crown.

Look at the most played games. Xbox shows the most played games on the platform: They all play at 60 FPS. Developers are releasing 60 FPS patches for older games aimed at enthusiasts and "Mainstream" alike. Why? Because frame rate matters. Even if you were to argue that it's not going to stop this "Average gamer" from trying the game on his Gamepass subscription, it is going to impact his enjoyment of the game and, in turn, will influence whether he sticks with the game or whether to go back to Call of Duty, Apex, Warzone, Fortnite or any of the other insanely popular multiplayer games that run at 60 FPS instead.

The percentage of users that choose the 30fps modes in these games would probably surprise you. Even the 30fps/60fps discussion is a separate issue from these social media spats. There are 18m+ Xbox series users, hardly any of them have taken part in this discussion online.

 

[01011001]

The DF crew really needs to stop playing armchair developer, conjuring up fantasies for why games look a certain way

Especially Alex, these takes are insufferable and filled with wild assumptions and no insight into what's going on with the engine or dev team

but they often are correct... so why shouldn't they?

 

[diffusionx]

The percentage of users that choose the 30fps modes in these games would probably surprise you. Even the 30fps/60fps discussion is a separate issue from these social media spats. There are 18m+ Xbox series users, hardly any of them have taken part in this discussion online.

it would not surprise me if a lot of people think 30fps is 60fps and what have you. Like when 16:9 TVs came out, people would stretch 4:3 content so they "used the whole TV they paid for." You really cannot point to the average troglodyte with stuff like this.

 

[Punished Miku]

Flight Sim and AoE4 are both great games, although obviously PC-centric. AoE4 is the one game I bought when my GP sub ended. Yet I will certainly deny the quality of Grounded, Sea of Thieves, and "so on."

I mean, "so on" could also be Hi-Fi Rush, Ghostwire Tokyo, Pentiment, Psychonauts 2, Age of Empires 2 remake, Goldeneye, Forza H 5, Halo Infinite. If people aren't into it that's fine with me, but I do get tired of constantly being told I have nothing to play. It seems to always return to disqualifying things that aren't $100 million+ AAA games. Personally, I like a lot of the smaller games.

This is more games than I've purchased on PS5. Switch runs about 3 laps around both of them combined though and is by far the bulk of my purchases.

 

[01011001]

it would not surprise me if a lot of people think 30fps is 60fps and what have you. Like when 16:9 TVs came out, people would stretch 4:3 content so they "used the whole TV they paid for." You really cannot point to the average troglodyte with stuff like this.

indeed, the average person who plays games these days is über casual.
but it has been shown in the past that patterns emerged, where a suspicious amount of the most popular games were 60fps on console.

so even if the casual plebs that play games nowadays don't know what 60fps even means, they can still feel if a game feels better to control.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

I mean, "so on" could also be Hi-Fi Rush, Ghostwire Tokyo, Pentiment, Psychonauts 2, Age of Empires 2 remake, Goldeneye, Forza H 5, Halo Infinite. If people aren't into it that's fine with me, but I do get tired of constantly being told I have nothing to play. It seems to always return to disqualifying things that aren't $100 million+ AAA games. Personally, I like a lot of the smaller games.

This is more games than I've purchased on PS5. Switch runs about 3 laps around both of them combined though and is by far the bulk of my purchases.

But, no ones is saying that you don't have nothing to play Miku, keep enjoying what you do enjoy.
Having said that, it's all about opinions man, just like you have yours, other people have the right to express theirs, as an example, you have the right to enjoy "not $100 million+ AAA games" in the form of smaller titles, others though (me for example) are tired of smaller/indie games and prefer AAA "experiences", also, the whole switch thing that "dances 3 laps" around both of 'em, again, it's all about personal preferences brother since - talking about personal preferences again - for me there's about...3 whole titles that i'd be interested in (Astral chain and the 2 Zeldas).

Horses for courses and all that my good man

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I mean, "so on" could also be Hi-Fi Rush, Ghostwire Tokyo, Pentiment, Psychonauts 2, Age of Empires 2 remake, Goldeneye, Forza H 5, Halo Infinite. If people aren't into it that's fine with me, but I do get tired of constantly being told I have nothing to play. It seems to always return to disqualifying things that aren't $100 million+ AAA games. Personally, I like a lot of the smaller games.

This is more games than I've purchased on PS5. Switch runs about 3 laps around both of them combined though and is by far the bulk of my purchases.

We all like different things. I couldn't care less about that entire list other than Halo which launched in dec 2021 and that turned out to be mostly for SP only which was a solid but flawed experience.

Haven't turned my switch on since Metroid dread but that'll change with Zelda. Meanwhile nothing but bangers for PS5 and third parties lately. And the console sales seem to prove that out with how dominant it's been this year

Played halfway through Hi Fi and it's fun but failed to really capture my interest after a while.

I am cautiously optimistic on Redfall as I think it will be a tad better than most expect even if it doesn't light the world on fire.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Cheer up guys! They're taking away decades old storied franchises from the competition. Games you would have had regardless. So you're still at a net zero, but you sure owned them ponies!