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[dark10x]

I didn't use those captures to highlight image quality, though...they simply represented the type of scene I was talking about.

You really don't see what I mean about the lighting though?

edit - that first shot you posted is actually pretty nice! I remember seeing that exact shot. I have not played the game on XBOX, however...only on Dreamcast. It didn't look like that on DC...

That second shot looks better than DC (which had truly awful shimmering in that area), but it still highlights the lack of shading.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I thought it was fine. In the moments they wanted it to be dramatic (Ryo's Lan Di dream sequence, for example), it did.

 

[dark10x]

I thought it was fine. In the moments they wanted it to be dramatic (Ryo's Lan Di dream sequence, for example), it did.

That's a cutscene, though. I'm talking about actually walking around the city...

 

[Panajev2001a]

That's a cutscene, though. I'm talking about actually walking around the city...

Look at the previous page, look at images of the city at night in the first game.

You know, I am looking out of the window right now and I am noticing an awful lack of shading...

 

[Korranator]

For those who like RPGs solely for story

Those people should be shot on sight...

Seriously though a story should only enhance a game and meaning to it, it should NEVER be the dominate reason to PLAY the game.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Those people should be shot on sight...

Seriously though a story should only enhance a game and meaning to it, it should NEVER be the dominate reason to PLAY the game.

Why ?

I really want to hear this.

 

[dark10x]

Look at the previous page, look at images of the first one in the city at night.

You know, I am looking out of the window right now and I am noticing an awful lack of shading...

What? This...

It doesn't LOOK like that on Dreamcast. I've never tried the XBOX version before, so I don't know what changes were made. If there is a Japanese version of Shenmue II on XBOX, I'll pick it up later on and find out...

I have very recently been playing Shenmue 2 on DC again, and the game is very shimmery and features a ton of ultra plain surfaces. That's the problem. The lighting just looks wrong. It looks neither artistic/dramatic nor realistic.

Ok, I'm looking for more pics...

The XBOX version does look a bit better, I must admit. It still is a bit flat, but the scenes seem to look a lot nicer and sport much better image quality.

I also hear the ditched that nasty water in the DC version of SM2 and replaced it with a pixel shaded surface. Is this true?

 

[XS+]

Anyone have the Japanese Shenmue II for DC? Does it have VGA support? The Euro version (that I own) isn't able to display in progressive..

 

[marvelharvey]

Well, I've got the Euro version and I can run it through VGA just fine.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yes, the water is nicely pixel-shaded.

I liked the water in Shenmue I a lot too though (the stormy MGS2 like water).

The Xbox version of Shenmue 2 does have improoved Image Quality and lighting.

I never played the Dreamcast version of Shenmue II, only of Shenmue I.

 

[XS+]

Well, I've got the Euro version and I can run it through VGA just fine.

I can run the Euro version through the VGA adapter as well, but it's not progressive video.

 

[Korranator]

Why ?

I really want to hear this.

The key word is to PLAY the game. If you are reading or going through a story then you really aren't playing it. Interactive movies just don't make very fun games to play, and offer zero replay value. Video games should always make game play a priority, because that is what video games are all about. Otherwise a game with a great story but mediocre game play just won't appeal to general public, and remain a cult or niche title. A great example is when my nephew comes over to play games. He will slap in Mario Sunshine, and gets bored with the opening story elements, because he just wants to play the game.

You know why ICO, GTA, REZ, Zelda, Castlevania, Mario etc, etc are so successful and loved? It isn't because of their storylines, but because of their game play.

 

[dark10x]

I can run the Euro version through the VGA adapter as well, but it's not progressive video.

Wha? If you are using a true DC VGA box, and it is displaying on your monitor, it is running in progressive scan. What exactly makes you think it isn't running in progscan? For a DC game, the image quality IS pretty awful...so perhaps you are simply mistaking bad IQ for "no progressive output"?

Korranator, why must that be true for EVERY game, though? I see no problem with some games focusing more on story than anything else. It isn't as if you are being forced to buy them...

If people enjoy something, why take it away from them?

 

[SpoonyBard]

Shenmue 2's lack of mip-mapping makes it look worse than Shenmue 1.

 

[Maverick]

I can't help loving Shenmue. I'm a sucker for games that are, or at least try to be epic. Shenmue, to me, was as close to an adventure as you can get. The gameplay wasn't fantastic, but the concept was just exciting to me.

You aren't going to find many fans of Shenmue at GA. This is just the wrong crowd. Hell, we can't even hold interest in online games for 2 weeks, let alone bare the first few boring hours of every Shenmue game.

I always felt chilled out when I was playing through Shenmue 1 & 2. There was no stress like when you play through games like Ninja Gaiden and Splinter Cell. Maybe I'm becoming a gaming puss, but games like that are simply too frustrating for me anymore.

 

[XS+]

I don't know what a 'true DC VGA box' is, but the adapter I'm using isn't playing the game in progressive.

Here's why I know it's not in progressive: My TV gives the option to play non-prog video in interlaced mode, or upscan to prog. But when I play anything in progressive scan on my TV (including every other DC game in my librbary), the video locks[/i] into prog with no option to switch to interlaced. When I play SM2 Euro with my setup, my TV gives the option to play in interlaced or upscan. Plus the quality just isn't as good as any other DC game in prog, including Shenmue I.

If everyone else is getting prog, then I don't know what the hell's going on, and I'm not anticipating a straight answer in this thread, so nevermind..

 

[dark10x]

See, you are playing through your TV...

I was under the assumption that you were outputting VGA to your PC monitor. If that was the case, your monitor would be unable to display a non-progressive signal and would simply give you a black screen. However, you are using a TV in this case...

 

[XS+]

I forgot to mention, my setup is a HDTV + VGA-to-Component adapter + component and VGA cables + VGA adapter + DC

 

[Panajev2001a]

The key word is to PLAY the game. If you are reading or going through a story then you really aren't playing it. Interactive movies just don't make very fun games to play, and offer zero replay value. Video games should always make game play a priority, because that is what video games are all about. Otherwise a game with a great story but mediocre game play just won't appeal to general public, and remain a cult or niche title. A great example is when my nephew comes over to play games. He will slap in Mario Sunshine, and gets bored with the opening story elements, because he just wants to play the game.

You know why ICO, GTA, REZ, Zelda, Castlevania, Mario etc, etc are so successful and loved? It isn't because of their storylines, but because of their game play.

Video games are primarly entertainment and if they can entertain the user, they succeeded.

Zero replay value ? You are the kind of guy who never watches the same movie twice, right ?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Shenmue 2's lack of mip-mapping makes it look worse than Shenmue 1.

Shenmue I did not have mip-mapping either.

 

[Kiriku]

I don't think it looks that good really. I played through Shenmue II on Xbox recently, and I wasn't exactly amazed or even impressed by the graphics. It's blocky, character faces look pasted on (with few exceptions), and it has this muddy, plain look to it. Maybe it's the lighting, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

And that's just the graphics, let's not get started on the rest.

 

[Miburou]

Those people should be shot on sight...

Seriously though a story should only enhance a game and meaning to it, it should NEVER be the dominate reason to PLAY the game.

LOL, what is this, some kind of religion where there's only one right way? People are free to find enjoyment in a game any way they like.

As for Shenmue and Shenmue II, both run fine using the Sega VGA adaptor (Japanese versions of the games).

 

[SpoonyBard]

Shenmue I did not have mip-mapping either.

Really? They used to hide it much better then.

 

[Korranator]

Zero replay value ? You are the kind of guy who never watches the same movie twice, right ?

Most movies, I only watch once. Only a select few do I watch more than once.

LOL, what is this, some kind of religion where there's only one right way? People are free to find enjoyment in a game any way they like.

Nope, just expressing my opinion.

 

[Raxel]

I love 80s rock, kung fu flicks, old school Sega, and corny storylines. It's like Sega developed this game for people like me I love it!

 

[Lazy8s]

The accomplishment of Shenmue's graphics comes together primarily in scale since they contain dynamic elements that unfold without interruption for loading: pedestrian location and behavior, time, and weather. By standing Ryo still for a day in the middle of the city, around him the mild morning sky will give way to the stark brightness of high noon and eventually blanket the world in orange evening sunset (lengthening and bending the shadows along with it, which can also be seen in accelerated time by using the "Wait" option), and hundreds of individually unique characters will have seamlessly made their way by and effected the animation of urban life with shopkeepers clapping their hands loudly and beckoning customers over, windowshoppers examining product stands and opening doors to enter buildings, cooks at food stands chopping and stir-frying vegetables, and passerbys taking a seat on the patio of an outdoor cafe for a meal.

Shots from the DC versions, including Beta:

 

[Panajev2001a]

The accomplishment of Shenmue's graphics comes together primarily in scale since they contain dynamic elements that unfold without interruption for loading: pedestrian location and behavior, time, and weather. By standing Ryo still for a day in the middle of the city, around him the mild morning sky will give way to the stark brightness of high noon and eventually blanket the world in orange evening sunset (lengthening and bending the shadows along with it, which can also be seen in accelerated time by using the "Wait" option), and hundreds of individually unique characters will have seamlessly made their way by and effected the animation of urban life with shopkeepers clapping their hands loudly and beckoning customers over, windowshoppers examining product stands and opening doors to enter buildings, cooks at food stands chopping and stir-frying vegetables, and passerbys taking a seat on the patio of an outdoor cafe for a meal.

Lazy8s, that is an awesome take on Shenmue .

Well, some things divide posters and some things unite us .

 

[Funky Papa]

Girl: *looking at Ryo's photos, one is of Nozomi* Who is this girl?

Ryo: Just some girl.

Girl: Ah... did she like you?

Ryo: I dunno

Girl: Hmm... did you like her?

Ryo: *shrug* Not really.


Ahaha, damn you Ryo!

 

[Panajev2001a]

To that I answer:

Revenge is never a straight line.
It's a forest. And like a forest
it's easy to lose your way...to get
lost...
to forget where you came in. To
serve as a compass, a combat
philosophy must be adopted that can
be found in the secret doctrine of
the Yagu Ninja.

 

[Drinky Crow]

The accomplishment of Shenmue's graphics comes together primarily in scale since they contain dynamic elements that unfold without interruption for loading: pedestrian location and behavior, time, and weather. By standing Ryo still for a day in the middle of the city, around him the mild morning sky will give way to the stark brightness of high noon and eventually blanket the world in orange evening sunset (lengthening and bending the shadows along with it, which can also be seen in accelerated time by using the "Wait" option), and hundreds of individually unique characters will have seamlessly made their way by and effected the animation of urban life with shopkeepers clapping their hands loudly and beckoning customers over, windowshoppers examining product stands and opening doors to enter buildings, cooks at food stands chopping and stir-frying vegetables, and passerbys taking a seat on the patio of an outdoor cafe for a meal.

Boy, you're gonna shit yourself if you ever play Gothic 1 or 2, then.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Boy, you're gonna shit yourself if you ever play Gothic 1 or 2, then.

Doug, outta here... leave us Shenmue fans to rejoice over what WE like .

 

[Drinky Crow]

Yeah, but you don't ACTUALLY like Shenmue.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yeah, but you don't ACTUALLY like Shenmue.

That is where you are wrong .

 

[Drinky Crow]

Good Lord, that's depressing.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Good Lord, that's depressing.

Do not get so hung-up on this, I am not really losing sleep because your nature does not allow you to enjoy Shenmue .

 

[levious]

he likes point and click games yet complains about the lack of gameplay in Shenmue.

 

[dark10x]

he likes point and click games yet complains about the lack of gameplay in Shenmue.

If Drinky does, in fact, enjoy graphic adventures...I'd suspect that a lot of that enjoyment is the result of quality dialog. Shenmue has pretty awful dialog sequences in comparison...

 

[Panajev2001a]

If Drinky does, in fact, enjoy graphic adventures...I'd suspect that a lot of that enjoyment is the result of quality dialog. Shenmue has pretty awful dialog sequences in comparison...

Over-all the dialogues are fine. The story, which is there and good IMHO, gets across nicely.

You need to get adjusted to Ryo's personality, if you cannot and you hate him of course all the game will suffer.

This game is not Monkey Island 2++, it is not supposed to use the same wit and comic touch.

 

[Miburou]

With crap like what Lazy8s just posted, it's no wonder there's such a backlash from people like Drinky, etc.

 

[Uno Ill Nino]

More Shenmue photoshops PLEEEASE!!!!!!!

 

[jett]

Even back when it was released, the character models were all so low poly that it was often hard to look at. The game is far less impressive looking than I had originally hoped.

LOL, what the fuck? Just shut the hell up. Shenmue(US version) was pretty fucking impressive when it was released in 2000, shit, even more considering its original japanese release date was February '99.

 

[BlackClouds]

With crap like what Lazy8s just posted, it's no wonder there's such a backlash from people like Drinky, etc.

And you have contributed absolutely nothing to this thread. Trolling is not allowed. At least make a point or two why Lazy 8 is so wrong in your opinion. Stop milking Drinky Cow and stand up with your own opinion.

 

[Boogie9IGN]

Fuck the graphic whores, Shenmue I/II will always be the greatest games ever, at least to me, regardless of whether they had no 'proper lighting' or any of that

 

[dark10x]

LOL, what the fuck? Just shut the hell up. Shenmue(US version) was pretty fucking impressive when it was released in 2000, shit, even more considering its original japanese release date was February '99.

Wow, how mature.

The main character models were fine...as were some of the supporting characters. THAT was impressive back in 2000...

However, the characters around the streets looked akward. It seemed as if they were trying to "fake" a lot of details and it ended up looking ugly. I thought that right from the beginning. All of the trailers and pics never really showed them, but when you really played...you could see it. Why the hell are you talking shit about something that is true? You can make low poly models look decent, but they went about it the wrong way. It could be forgiven when you consider how many characters were present, of course, but it just looked odd when some of the characters were pretty detailed while others were really not...

It was that variation that bothered me somewhat. Everything I had seen up until release suggested very detailed characters, but that wasn't the case for a lot of people. THIS is what I'm talking about...

...compared to THIS, which looks incredible (and is what I wrongly expected throughout)

What I expected was, obviously, unreasonable...but there has never been a game that I have hyped as much as Shenmue. I had entire CDRs dedicated to Shenmue videos and such (trailers, mostly), but I didn't really catch any of this until I played it. The game still looked very good...and was still impressive, but those characters ARE VERY low poly (even for the day).

Heck, for a while, I actually was hoping that the game would render in game characters with details like this...

Those face demos were such a tease.

BTW, I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the game. I DID like it. I was simply disappointed with it (and visuals were NOT the reason). I can't believe how nasty people can get when talking about Shenmue. I even LIKE the game...

 

[Lazy8s]

Interestingly, the "head demos" are not actually using just a part of the character. The camera doesn't let you pan all the way down to see, but hacking of the program has switched those demo models into the game and revealed that their full body is accounted for. It's not such a surprise since the intro of the game with the full character model of Shenhua looking out over the enormous canyon setting has always carried that close-up of a similarly high LOD version of her at the end. Also, in some of the old promo videos, there was footage from one of the many unused cut-scenes that showed the camera zooming in from far away at the harbor onto a Passport-level model of Ryo as he turned around to look.

The hacking that's been done on the game has also revealed a lot of other things. One particular detail is that the game runs traffic logic for the cars to prevent them from hitting Ryo even though he can't actually get onto the road to trigger it. Shenmue project development was so massive and convoluted that lots of things didn't end up getting cleaned up and optimized unfortunately. For all of the shadows the game displays, it models them with extra geometry burn - not using the hardware's modifier volumes.

 

[Sho Nuff]

The hacking that's been done on the game has also revealed a lot of other things. One particular detail is that the game runs traffic logic for the cars to prevent them from hitting Ryo even though he can't actually get onto the road to trigger it. Shenmue project development was so massive and convoluted that lots of things didn't end up getting cleaned up and optimized unfortunately. For all of the shadows the game displays, it models them with extra geometry burn - not using the hardware's modifier volumes.

You got any links to Shen Mue hacking? I'd love to mess around with that engine.

 

[dark10x]

Could you provide some resources for Shenmue hacking? I would really like to read about some of that...

 

[Panajev2001a]

I would too.

 

[Miburou]

And you have contributed absolutely nothing to this thread. Trolling is not allowed. At least make a point or two why Lazy 8 is so wrong in your opinion. Stop milking Drinky Cow and stand up with your own opinion.

Actually, I have two other posts in this thread, look them up.

And in case you missed the (obvious) point in my last post, it wasn't that lazy's opinion is wrong, but rather that there's so much hyperbole and exaggerations that I don't find it surprising that there are people who are the exact opposite, who hate the game with a passion. Drinky was the obvious example, and FYI I don't actually share his opinion (I find the game boring now, but I do have fond memories of playing it back in 2000).

 

[Saturnman]