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[kittoo]

dude first of all back off. Many muslims died in the ensuing riots way more. Some ppl overstate our communal tensions but they do exist . And both sides do kill each other. This is about india and china not about our internal communal issues.

EDIT

I remember a hindu lower caste poster who was totally outraged at upper caste treatment of lower caste and then completely oblivious about hindu vs muslim issues. These things arent that simple. Plus as I said internal not relevant to this topic.

When did I say anything about Muslims dying? Did I deny that? I didn't even mention that in my post. I had issues with the lying that the train just 'caught fire'. That stands. How is pointing the truth wrong?
Nor did I say anything about inter-caste or other issues. You are brining random issues and then telling me to back-off and that it's internal and irrelevant and what not? Lol.

 

[Ishan]

Actually that is what i was saying, Indian army has advantage in Himalayas or in specific regions, What i was talking about full on war. they are not capable to Withold china than.


Also,I have seen that the thread around Indian politics on Gaf has really some twisted and misinformed kind of comments and posts, but I couldn't blame them , even the mod here argue with you quoting Wikipedia entries, so i can't expect much better.Its really not a great place to discuss about Indian politics that for sure.

indian issues and geopolitics plus even internal politics are very complicated and its hard to express on an american centric forum. So unlike say american politics where there are 100 views expressed anything on india you see say 10 views expressed and obviously the nuances are much more evident with 100 views than 10 ... Thats why it seems so all over the place with indian posters including myself were all expressing out 10 viewpoints without the other 90 viewpoints which would better indicate the nuances / more articles/ studies etc etc. its like if you threw in sean hannity samantha bee obama trump and were like wtf is going on with american's views

obviously an over simplied explanation but i guess the best way to express what happens on gaf on pointed indian issues.

 

[Ishan]

When did I say anything about Muslims dying? Did I deny that? I didn't even mention that in my post. I had issues with the lying that the train just 'caught fire'. That stands. How is pointing the truth wrong?
Nor did I say anything about inter-caste or other issues. You are brining random issues and then telling me to back-off and that it's internal and irrelevant and what not? Lol.

i just mean innocents died both sides... anyway as i said off topic

 

[vivekTO]

its like if you threw in sean hannity samantha bee obama trump and were like wtf is going on with american's views

.

who is sean hannity samantha bee, .
I agree with the sentiments, thats why i Keep my engagements low in these thread.

 

[kittoo]

Also,I have seen that the thread around Indian politics on Gaf has really some twisted and misinformed kind of comments and posts, but I couldn't blame them , even the mod here argue with you quoting Wikipedia entries, so i can't expect much better.Its really not a great place to discuss about Indian politics that for sure.

Completely agree. It's very difficult to live in US/europe and have your views informed only by media and think that they are completely unbiased and well-informed. That's why I usually don't comment much on US politics here. I am simply not qualified enough. That's why I find sweeping statements on Indian politics (Modi is a terrorist) slightly irritating. Add that to the fact that GAF leans left massively (not all that wrong from an American perspective tbh) and anything that even slightly related to or mentioned as right wing suddenly becomes anathema, even if it's in a different country and has much more to it than one simple label

 

[andythinkpad]

...

The most logical course as some ppl are talking about is just let the impass stay let winter come then both backoff on logistics and diplomacy prevails before next summer.

Both sides are dry yelling and waiting for excuses to get off the stage without "losing face."

Right now the national media are watching so a good show needed to be put up. "Wolf Warriors 2" breaking box office in record time? Yep that's part of the show.

 

[TomWaitsForNoMan]

"Caught fire". At least have the decency of not pissing on dead innocents. Cartoon_soldier already posted rebuttal to your post. It has been proven in the court that it was a conspiracy. Maybe you should read from the Nanavati commission (which court had established) report, which proved beyond doubt it was a Muslim mob. People are in jail because of that. But in all your bias you only read the commision which was setup by Congress and it's only job was to somehow prove it was spontaneous fire. The report of that commission was thrown out by the court as 'fictional, biased garbage'.
I really don't get how people can go do far as to not even give the dead their due justice and respect. Be it people like you who try to cast doubt on what really happened, and people like the congress party and that commission who went as far as to falsify the death of innocents.

You mean the Nanavati commission where a BJP politician was caught on tape talking about bribing the man that ran it? Please, if you're going to spread sectarian bullshit at least have the respect for your fellow posters to make it more convincing.

Of course I'm sorry the train passengers died, but I loathe that it was used as an excuse for anti-minority violence whipped up by demagogues like the current PM

 

[Ishan]

You mean the Nanavati commission where a BJP politician was caught on tape talking about bribing the man that ran it? Please, if you're going to spread sectarian bullshit at least have the respect for your fellow posters to make it more convincing.

lol this seems so indian .... i like and at the same time dont like this off topic diversion. We have a miliary issue with a power stronger than us and we veer off into our own political differences haha never change india

EDIT: aka saale uss bc ko toh dekh lenge margar tune kya boola pehle idhar aah hahhahahaaha

 

[kittoo]

You mean the Nanavati commission where a BJP politician was caught on tape talking about bribing the man that ran it? Please, if you're going to spread sectarian bullshit at least have the respect for your fellow posters to make it more convincing.

First, congratulations on the googling skills and finding some dirt on it. Now how about an actual proof? The man caught on tape saying he bribed, but where is the proof of Nanavati actually taking it? I searched and didn't see court having any objection on the report or giving a verdict against it. Surely, if there was an actual bribe, there wouldve been issued? All I see from your is a google books link which says a person claimed of bribed but no actual proof.

Now coming to the commission you refer to, the banerjee commission. Which the court termed 'unconstitutional, null and void, made with malafide Intentions.'
I will leave it to people to decide themselves which commission is valid. one made by court on basis of which verdict was given (and people prosecuted), or one made by the opposition political party which the court threw in a dustbin.

Please also read the summary at least of the judgement and Nanavati commission, which describes the whole event in detail. Then please tell me how all of that could happen 'spontaneously' and why if it all was 'spontaneous', people were actually convicted.

 

[TomWaitsForNoMan]

lol this seems so indian .... i like and at the same time dont like this off topic diversion. We have a miliary issue with a power stronger than us and we veer off into our own political differences haha never change india

Lol hahaha yeah it's so funny, hahaha, it's just the current government being complicit in mass murder, like. India never change, it might be slipping into Hindu-supremacist nationalism where the very accusation of killing a cow means a mob beating you to death but I hope that never changes, hahaha lol :^)

The man caught on tape saying he bribed, but where is the proof of Nanavati actually taking it?.

You have a very appropriate tag

 

[vivekTO]

This is the exactly the type of comment i was talking about earlier. Just the same rhetoric over n over again.

 

[Ishan]

This is the exactly the type of comment i was talking about earlier. Just the same rhetoric over n over again.

well im done with this convo. I made a joke and it went completely insane on me lol. im going to agree with you and stay out of this on this forum i guess haha

 

[GeekyDad]

never mind

 

[cartoon_soldier]

You mean the Nanavati commission where a BJP politician was caught on tape talking about bribing the man that ran it? Please, if you're going to spread sectarian bullshit at least have the respect for your fellow posters to make it more convincing.

Of course I'm sorry the train passengers died, but I loathe that it was used as an excuse for anti-minority violence whipped up by demagogues like the current PM

Screw all the commissions, I am talking about the court verdict. If the court just wanted to fix it, why would they convict only 30 people and acquit 60. Police couldn't find enough evidence against some of the others, while for others they found proof of petrol purchase few hours before the train stop among other evidence.

The train burning from inside was a theory propagated by Lalu Prasad Yadav - the most corrupt politician in India today.

 

[Preezy]

In a Tom Clancy novel, what would India be referred to as?

China is the Dragon
Russia is the Bear
etc

The Snake? The Monkey? The Tiger?

Tiger could work.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Bullshit. It is absolutely new. I have been going to theater here for over 2 decades. I had never seen the national anthem being played before movies till now. This "patriotism enforcement" started with the current government.



LOL that explains your ignorance.

Go check with your parents? Those are from the 50s and 60s know that national anthem has played before cinemas in movie theaters before. Go check back on history before calling bullshit!

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

"Caught fire". At least have the decency of not pissing on dead innocents. Cartoon_soldier already posted rebuttal to your post. It has been proven in the court that it was a conspiracy. Maybe you should read from the Nanavati commission (which court had established) report, which proved beyond doubt it was a Muslim mob. People are in jail because of that. But in all your bias you only read the commision which was setup by Congress and it's only job was to somehow prove it was spontaneous fire. The report of that commission was thrown out by the court as 'fictional, biased garbage'.
I really don't get how people can go do far as to not even give the dead their due justice and respect. Be it people like you who try to cast doubt on what really happened, and people like the congress party and that commission who went as far as to falsify the death of innocents.

Few folks are terribly misinformed with an internal bias to support whatever non-factual things they have to say!

 

[Ishan]

In a Tom Clancy novel, what would India be referred to as?

China is the Dragon
Russia is the Bear
etc

The Snake? The Monkey? The Tiger?

Tiger could work.

india's national animal is the tiger. But in general i think both an elephant and/or a tiger could apply to india. The closest other thing is a king cobra but india's never seemed to fit that mould.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

In a Tom Clancy novel, what would India be referred to as?

China is the Dragon
Russia is the Bear
etc

The Snake? The Monkey? The Tiger?

Tiger could work.

Russia is the bear? now this video makes sense! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HLkqERveB4

 

[GAMEPROFF]

By "interesting", you mean World War 3?

I want a penny everytime someone shitposts about WW3

 

[sflufan]

Reuters: diplomatic efforts to defuse the crisis have hit a "brick wall"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-china-idUSKBN1AO1D4

China has insisted that India unilaterally withdraw its troops from the remote Doklam plateau claimed by both Beijing and Indian ally Bhutan.

But China did not respond to India's suggestion in the talks that it move its troops back 250 meters (820 ft) in return, said one source with close ties to Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government.

In the low-key diplomatic maneuvers that took place outside the public eye, the Chinese countered with an offer to move back 100 meters (328 ft), so long as they received clearance from top government officials.

But there has been no comeback since, except for China's mounting warnings of an escalation in the region, which it calls Donglang.

 

[Madness]

Wang Wenli, a top official with China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Ms. Wang was briefing an Indian media delegation. "It is impossible to have a dialogue with India at this time. Our people will think our government is incompetent," she said.   

The bolded is precisely why China cannot back down now. For all its corruption, India is still democratically led and elected. Mainland China has had a 7 decade strangehold by the Communist Party of China on its politics. Corruption was very rampant prior to Xi Jinping's crackdown as people were starting to think individually and not collectively. To maintain absolute control, they can't cede one inch whether to Japan, Taiwan, Philippines or Vietnam or India. If they start this and back down, you will see riots and backlash against the CPC as nationalist mainlanders consider them weak and ineffectual. This is how the Bolsheviks deposed the Russian imperial regime. They need to win.

India also cannot back down as it means they lose Bhutan as a guaranteed ally, signal to everyone else Indian protection and diplomatic guarantees mean nothing. It also means China can build without impunity not on their land, create security issues for India. Keep in mind Beijing loses their shit if you sell weapons to Taiwan or help Vietnam build in the South China Sea but have no issues developing in disputed Kashmir.

China however is militarily stronger. Both sides don't want to use nukes. You will probably see a limited hot war in which China gains the advantage, takes land and calls a ceasefire saying they'll retreat but holding key areas of land. Whatever happens though, you are definitely going to see a new cold war buildup here. India is the worlds largest arms importer, China is now almost 2nd in arms export and also fast catching up to the US in terms of military spending. Over $200 billion per year at this point with almost 10% growth every year.

 

[HisImperialMajesty]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/...a-china-standoff-bhutan-holds-its-breath.html

"But the latest standoff has inflamed festering resentments over India's influence in the country. In particular, many suspect that India has sought to block Bhutan's efforts to establish diplomatic relations and expand trade with Beijing, fearing that a rapprochment could remove the strategic buffer that Bhutan provides."

"But when India ordered its troops across the border on June 16, it seemed to do so without a request from Bhutan. While Bhutan has condemned the Chinese road work, it has studiously avoided saying whether it asked India to intervene. The Indian government has also avoided this question."

"Many interviewed in Bhutan expressed more concern about India's actions than China's. Some note that one effect of India's move - intended or not - has been to undermine border negotiations with China that could have cleared the way for closer economic ties."

"After decades of tilting almost exclusively south, Bhutan has begun looking north to China. In 2012, the prime minister at the time met with his Chinese counterpart at a Group of 20 summit meeting in Rio de Janeiro. Not long afterward, India cut subsidies to Bhutan for cooking oil and kerosene. The move was widely seen as retaliation."

"We try to protect the interest of our big brother, referring to India. But they feel that if we get closer to the north, we might not be as dependent on them".

NYTimes definitely not painting India's actions in a good light. It's pretty clear that India's action in Bhutan has been in it's own self interest, not in Bhutan's. It wants to maintain a strategic position over the Siliguri Corridor that the Chinese road threatens, as well as maintain its suzerainty over Bhutan that the Bhutanese themselves have been chafing under for a while now.