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[leroidys]

The original thread title was "Republicans move to criminalize protesting in 5 states and counting..." which is inflammatory and inaccurate. The headline on the article was "Republican lawmakers in 5 states propose bills to criminalize peaceful protest" which is also inflammatory and inaccurate.

Barring the anti-union bill from Michigan, the common thread is disruptive protests, particularly those that block freeways. I can change it to "disruptive protests." Or if you have another thread title in mind that accurately describes the story you can let me know.

The WA state proposal would basically open the doors to criminalize all protests as felonies with a dubious label of "economic terrorism".

 

[More_Badass]

The problem is that then I'm pissed at the protesters for affecting me, not for the government affecting the protesters.

As it been explained in the thread, protesters don't care about you being pissed at them. The issues are bigger and more important than you being in traffic. People being frustrated complain to the authorities and government about why this keeps happening and to make it stop.

 

[TetraGenesis]

Those won't pass. They're scumbags.

And Trump won't win the Presidency.

 

[Siegcram]

The problem is that then I'm pissed at the protesters for affecting me, not for the government affecting the protesters.

Then the problem doesn't lie with the protesters anyway. You realize that, right?

 

[Future]

I mean like, peaceful protesting doesnt mean blocking vital pathways of transportation. Go protest downtown. Thats where most people will see it. If someone gets killed blocking a freeway the organizers should be held accountable for gross negligence.

Protests that aren't disruptive are easily ignored. When they are disruptive, they make the news. They are a pain in the ass, but the visibility is increased. How do you put value on that annoyance and visibility?

However, I would have assumed that people that block traffic do get arrested or at least fined.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

The only thing I can somewhat agree with is universities not hiring grief counselors after elections or allowing their funds to be contributed to political protests by student groups, but otherwise, what reprehensible garbage. This party should be goddamn ashamed of itself.

 

[commedieu]

But you're then making your voices heard to the wrong people. If the protest is something government-related, how is making me late to work helping your cause? Make your voices heard to those people in government that can affect what you're trying to change.

They are ignored, and executed.

That's why people protest, because your suggestions do not work. I don't know why this has to be explained so many times, I really dont. Protests and riots happen because people are being ignored.

If it was as simple as gee, asking the government to do something, there would be no need for protesting to get out awareness. Everyone isn't like you.

If I'm on the freeway, late to work because people are protesting being executed I'm going to have a beyond valid excuse at work. Emergency services make it to people that need help during protests as well.

Every single post of yours illustrates you don't know what a protest is. But thankfully the people that founded the nation, that fought for civil rights and equality, minimum wages and workers rights, all understood it.

I hope you can read up on why people protest to learn, instead of making up worse case scenarios. Didn't you do the same thing with people wearing masks make them destroy property? I could be mistaken.

 

[The Kree]

The problem is that then I'm pissed at the protesters for affecting me, not for the government affecting the protesters.

There's a long list of shit more important than your personal discomfort with protests. Close to number one on the list is civil rights violations. You're sitting closer to number infinity.

 

[Heavy_D206]

If I decided to run across the Freeway right now I'm pretty sure it would be a crime and I would be charged accordingly. Personally I feel those rules should apply to everyone.

 

[Got]

fucking maddening.

If I decided to run across the Freeway right now I'm pretty sure it would be a crime and I would be charged accordingly. Personally I feel those rules should apply to everyone.

do you live in a magical world where they don't apply to everyone?

 

[Cyan]

Incidentally, one of my coworkers was four hours late to work today because a protest in the city was blocking train tracks. Hasn't been fired yet.

 

[leroidys]

If I decided to run across the Freeway right now I'm pretty sure it would be a crime and I would be charged accordingly. Personally I feel those rules should apply to everyone.

This post exemplifies why the new title is more misleading then the last one.

 

[commedieu]

fucking maddening.



do you live in a magical world where they don't?

No shit.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

The problem is that then I'm pissed at the protesters for affecting me, not for the government affecting the protesters.

You then have two choices. Figure out why they're angry enough to disrupt traffic and add something to the cause of asking government for changing the root causes of their outrage, or not think at all and sit in your car and be keep spending energy being mad about it without wondering why they got enough allies to choke off a bridge in the first place. Shit like the Iowa and Washington bills ain't the answer.

 

[Got]

No shit.

i want to scream, it's so fucking maddening. how many people will keep bumbling in here and rehashing their tired ignorant shit?

 

[Already Torn]

The only thing I can somewhat agree with is universities not hiring grief counselors after elections or allowing their funds to be contributed to political protests by student groups, but otherwise, what reprehensible garbage. This party should be goddamn ashamed of itself.

???
Those grief counselors may save lives and provide services that students may not be able to get elsewhere. You're already paying a ridiculous amount to go to universities, you should get this one small service.

Anyway, I hate these "can't you just do a protest that doesn't bother anyone?" people. No, you can't. Then you might as well just be posting on GAF.

 

[superdeluxe]

Isn't Washington a blue state, if so how is that going to get passed? Never the less this shit is disgusting. The Republican party will probably spend the next 4 years doing everything in their power to stay in power, even if that means stripping the rights of citizens.

Spoiler

Worse yet some people will be cheering and hooting as their rights are slowly stripped away.

You would be surprised at some of the bills/initiatives that have passed here.

 

[LouisaFerre]

Incidentally, one of my coworkers was four hours late to work today because a protest in the city was blocking train tracks. Hasn't been fired yet.

Right, but the chance that he could, or the feelings of indignation that he has as a result are obviously severe enough to invalidate those protests as a method of activism.

 

[Siegcram]

???
Anyway, I hate these "can't you just do a protest that doesn't bother anyone?" people. No, you can't. Then you might as well just be posting on GAF.

Nah man, that's slacktivism.

 

[Already Torn]

Isn't Washington a blue state, if so how is that going to get passed? Never the less this shit is disgusting. The Republican party will probably spend the next 4 years doing everything in their power to stay in power, even if that means stripping the rights of citizens.

Spoiler

Worse yet some people will be cheering and hooting as their rights are slowly stripped away.

A surprising number of people hate protests regardless of party affiliation. That's why you see so many people arguing for some nonexistent alternate form of protest on GAF, which is pretty left leaning compared to other gaming sites.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

???
Those grief counselors may save lives and provide services that students may not be able to get elsewhere. You're already paying a ridiculous amount to go to universities, you should get this one small service.

Anyway, I hate these "can't you just do a protest that doesn't bother anyone?" people. No, you can't. Then you might as well just be posting on GAF.

The bill was prohibiting the hiring of additional grief counselors above and beyond what is usually available following an election, which I happen to think is reasonable. I would have been opposed to Trump supporters being given extra grief counseling in the event of a Clinton presidency that they saw as the end of the 1st and 2nd Amendments, as well.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Republicans are evil

 

[Guileless]

Isn't Washington a blue state, if so how is that going to get passed?

It's not. The two legislative chambers are split and the governor is a Democrat. One Republican legislator from an oil-producing district said he would introduce the bill. He's doing Dems a favor, they will raise a lot of money with scare tactics like the original title of this thread.

 

[Nokterian]

History really does repeat itself, huh? You can find those same kinds of comments, mindsets, and reactions today

It is a scary thought that it does happening again..nobody learns from there mistake, dark dark times ahead for everyone and meaning also in europe.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

You then have two choices. Figure out why they're angry enough to disrupt traffic and add something to the cause of asking government for changing the root causes of their outrage, or not think at all and sit in your car and be keep spending energy being mad about it without wondering why they got enough allies to choke off a bridge in the first place. Shit like the Iowa and Washington bills ain't the answer.

Then let's move this past my own petty problems and into more serious ones. If someone is in some state of medical emergency and dies dues to being stuck in traffic because of protesters, are the protesters not responsible for that person's death?

 

[Got]

Then let's move this past my own petty problems and into more serious ones. If someone is in some state of medical emergency and dies dues to being stuck in traffic because of protesters, are the protesters not responsible for that person's death?

did you bother to read the thread?

 

[leroidys]

Isn't Washington a blue state, if so how is that going to get passed? Never the less this shit is disgusting. The Republican party will probably spend the next 4 years doing everything in their power to stay in power, even if that means stripping the rights of citizens.

Spoiler

Worse yet some people will be cheering and hooting as their rights are slowly stripped away.

Washington has a Republican state senate.


BTW, making these things felonies conveniently bars you from voting in most states if convicted.

It's not. The two legislative chambers are split and the governor is a Democrat. One Republican legislator from an oil-producing district said he would introduce the bill. He's doing Dems a favor, they will raise a lot of money with scare tactics like the original title of this thread.

Republicans actively tearing down the constitution is secretly a scare tactic by Democrats? Please be joking. The Republicans are proposing these policies. Blame yourself.

 

[TAJ]

Then let's move this past my own petty problems and into more serious ones. If someone is in some state of medical emergency and dies dues to being stuck in traffic because of protesters, are the protesters not responsible for that person's death?

Emergency vehicles are allowed to do things that would get you ticketed or even arrested.
People even get out of their way. Shocking news.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Then let's move this past my own petty problems and into more serious ones. If someone is in some state of medical emergency and dies dues to being stuck in traffic because of protesters, are the protesters not responsible for that person's death?

Here we go again!

Poor Nana Ruth, forced to relive those MLK protests again and again.

 

[More_Badass]

Then let's move this past my own petty problems and into more serious ones. If someone is in some state of medical emergency and dies dues to being stuck in traffic because of protesters, are the protesters not responsible for that person's death?

Can't recall it happening in 60 years, throughout countless protests including the Civil Rights Movement. That's literally arguing a what-if scenario with no data or evidence to support that scenario

Why do people keep bringing it up? It's like the only counterpoint people can think of besides being late for work

 

[The Kree]

Then let's move this past my own petty problems and into more serious ones. If someone is in some state of medical emergency and dies dues to being stuck in traffic because of protesters, are the protesters not responsible for that person's death?

No, they're not, because towns and cities consist of multiple roads that emergency vehicles can take. Protests don't happen so spontaneously that these emergency vehicle drivers cannot receive adequate warning about which roads are safe to travel. They already do this for non-protest related traffic jams, extreme weather warnings, etc.

How often do you think it happens though? Enough that you can cite a statistic?

 

[RDreamer]

The problem is that then I'm pissed at the protesters for affecting me, not for the government affecting the protesters.

I mean... doesn't this stance make you the asshole?

If protestors are saying "Help us, we're being killed" and you're complaining that their actions make you mad at them... I don't know what to say at that.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Here we go again!

Poor Nana Ruth, forced to relive those MLK protests again and again.

Beat me to it.

 

[Already Torn]

Can't recall it happening in 60 years, throughout countless protests including the Civil Rights Movement. That's literally arguing a what-if scenario with no data or evidence to support that scenario

Why do people keep bringing it up? It's like the only counterpoint people can think of besides being late for work

Because it's the only way to say "I don't want to be late for work" while pretending to not be selfish.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

No, they're not, because towns and cities consist of multiple roads that emergency vehicles can take. Protests don't happen so spontaneously that these emergency vehicle drivers cannot receive adequate warning about which roads are safe to travel. They already do this for non-protest related traffic jams, extreme weather warnings, etc.

How often do you think it happens though? Enough that you can cite a statistic?

Alrighty, point taken.

Can't recall it happening in 60 years, throughout countless protests including the Civil Rights Movement. That's literally arguing a what-if scenario with no data or evidence to support that scenario

Why do people keep bringing it up? It's like the only counterpoint people can think of besides being late for work

Why even risk it happening if it can be avoidable?

 

[Got]

Alrighty, point taken.

what point?

 

[Already Torn]

Alrighty, point taken.

Why even risk it happening if it can be avoidable?

They don't risk it happening because it is avoidable.

This is like asking why we allow parades and marathons when an ambulance may need to get through the route.

 

[Averon]

Can the people that constantly bring up "Well, what about ambulances?" cite one example of an ambulance being held up due to a protest?

To be honest this reminds me of people justifying draconian voter ID laws with "Well, what about voter fraud!!"

 

[Siegcram]

I mean... doesn't this stance make you the asshole?

If protestors are saying "Help us, we're being killed" and you're complaining that their actions make you mad at them... I don't know what to say at that.

Introspection and empathy are rare commodities these days.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

what point?

Emergency vehicles will take preventative measures to avoid traffic-related delays.

 

[RDreamer]

Why even risk it happening if it can be avoidable?

You're right, why risk it? We should listen to the protestors so they don't feel the need to be in our streets anymore.

 

[Ogodei]

Incidentally, one of my coworkers was four hours late to work today because a protest in the city was blocking train tracks. Hasn't been fired yet.

My thought is if you get fired for something that wasn't your fault, then you should go out and join the people on the streets and campaign for workplace protection laws that don't allow for termination without good cause (or without possibility of appeal).

 

[More_Badass]

Why even risk it happening if it can be avoidable?

But the fact that it hasn't happened means it is and has been avoidable.

There's no reason to act on something that has never happened and maybe just may happen even though you have no evidence that it might happen. With that kind of rationale, you can just justify any action regardless of reality

And considering that emergency vehicles cope with raging snowstorms and accidents that block traffic and roads far more effectively than any protest could, it's not a real concern

 

[The Kree]

Can the people that constantly bring up "Well, what about ambulances?" cite one example of an ambulance being held up due to a protest?

To be honest this reminds me of people justifying draconian voter ID laws with "Well, what about voter fraud!!"

There are a few singular examples. A quick google search would reveal that. But the overall likelihood of it happening is so freaking low that it really doesn't matter.

 

[Got]

Emergency vehicles will take preventative measures to avoid traffic-related delays.

then why do you keep pushing that narrative? if you understand that your argument is inherently flawed and unrealistic why are you insisting on continuing with it? it's been explained so many times in the thread before you decided to pop your head in, that your point is already debunked but admit the point was taken and then proceed to throw some bullshit about why even risking it? it's absurd

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

then why do you keep pushing that narrative? if you understand that your argument is inherently flawed and unrealistic why are you insisting on continuing with it? it's been explained so many times in the thread before you decided to pop your head in, that your point is already debunked but admit the point was taken and then proceed to throw some bullshit about why even risking it? it's absurd

Okay, then I will admit that I was wrong on the matter.

 

[Already Torn]

then why do you keep pushing that narrative? if you understand that your argument is inherently flawed and unrealistic why are you insisting on continuing with it? it's been explained so many times in the thread before you decided to pop your head in, that your point is already debunked but admit the point was taken and then proceed to throw some bullshit about why even risking it? it's absurd

"I realize they take measures to avoid disasters, but then why don't they take measures to avoid disasters?"

 

[Guileless]

Republicans actively tearing down the constitution is secretly a scare tactic by Democrats? Please be joking. The Republicans are proposing these policies. Blame yourself.

The Constitution allows time, place, and manner restrictions on speech under certain conditions outlined in Ward v. Rock Against Racism (narrowly tailored, content neutral, alternative channels for speech, etc.)

A well-drafted bill limiting speech on busy freeways would probably meet the Ward test. The ACLU will sue whatever state enacts these bills and we will find out eventually.

Y'all need to pace yourselves, it's just the first day.

 

[Got]

"I realize they take measures to avoid disasters, but then why don't they take measures to avoid disasters?"

again, fucking maddening

 

[Averon]

There are a few singular examples. A quick google search would reveal that. But the overall likelihood of it happening is so freaking low that it really doesn't matter.

So just like voter fraud. That is, the likelihood and incidence being so low that it's a minuscule blip on a radar the size of an ocean. Yet people are more that willing to sign up for more draconian laws curtailing civil liberties on a 'just in case' basis.