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[BTails]

Anyone knows if the sync drop issues with the framemeister for games like Silent Hill and Resident Evil 2 n64 can be fixed with a firmware update? Or is it a hardware problem?

Not that I know of, unfortunately. It's probably the biggest downfall of the Framemeister.

 

[NormalFish]

Anyone knows if the sync drop issues with the framemeister for games like Silent Hill and Resident Evil 2 n64 can be fixed with a firmware update? Or is it a hardware problem?

It might be improved in a firmware update but at this point if it was going to be totally fixed, it would've happened.

 

[RiZ III]

Photo and model number of your TV and gear please?

Should be on the rear of the TV?

Here you go.

 

[gingerbeardman]

Thanks! Nice setup.

 

[NormalFish]

Edited Mushihime to run in 240p. Makes a big difference for clarity in tate, not so much for yoko. There's filtering on it, still, but it makes bullets clearer. definitely worth it.

 

[purdobol]

Found a seller of used medical equipment, and out of curiosity asked what they have in stock. They have some neat stuff in near mint condition. With technical passport and 6 month warranty. PVM-2043 MD, PVM-2044 QMD, PVM-20M2 MDE, PVM-2130 QM the usual. What grabbed my attention though are two Panasonic monitors:
PANASONIC Model WV-CM2080 and PANASONIC Model WV-CM1780/G. But after some searching turns out they don't have RGB inputs.

And this thing called W.O.M WORLD OF MEDICINE AG ER150/M2 which I can't find any info online.

Anybody know anything about it? Or have a link to manual/specification. All I know is it's made in Germany and it is 21" 50-60Hz.

 

[Ramune]

Found a seller of used medical equipment, and out of curiosity asked what they have in stock. They have some neat stuff in near mint condition. With technical passport and 6 month warranty.

And this thing called W.O.M WORLD OF MEDICINE AG ER150/M2 which I can't find any info online.



Anybody know anything about it? Or have a link to manual/specification. All I know is it's made in Germany and it is 21" 50-60Hz.

A quick search brought up a 510K Summary pdf of the monitor. Based or related to (if I'm reading correctly) the Sony PVM-1343 MD (K885042) apparently.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/242761/Sony-Pvm-1341.html#product-PVM-1342Q

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

WORLD OF MEDICINE sounds pretty fucking hardcore. I'd buy it just for the story.

 

[purdobol]

Based or related to (if I'm reading correctly) the Sony PVM-1343 MD (K885042) apparently.

Thanks.

WORLD OF MEDICINE sounds pretty fucking hardcore. I'd buy it just for the story.

Price is to steep for me. It would look cool in tate mode though. Heh.

 

[Mega]

Thanks.

Price is to steep for me. It would look cool in tate mode though. Heh.

Unrelated, but you're the one with the GroovyMame setup?

 

[televator]

Been doing some experiments with the PS3 model CECHA and PS2 game deinterlacing. So far, neither the PS3; my HDTV; nor the Framemeister can eliminate the moire artifacts in the game Enthusia.

The sharper image seems to come out of the mini. There's also a strange quirk I found on the PS3 where if you set RGB to full, even though it specifically says HDMI on the option, it will also affect the component output of the PS3. This results in black crush via component.

On a side note: Since I calibrated the picture on my PS2&3 I have in fact noticed that setting deep color mode on does at least reduce banding in my calibration disc. I can't really say for sure if this tranlates over to games.

Another edit: I downloaded FBX's profiles but there's not much in the way of descriptions. Can someone point me to the interger scale profiles?

 

[gingerbeardman]

I've got Enthusia, and a slim PS2. I'd offer a comparison but I run mine over component to a Sharp SD lcd.

 

[purdobol]

Unrelated, but you're the one with the GroovyMame setup?

Yep

 

[Mega]

Yep

Can you run stuff like non-GroovyMame emulators, Steam games and AM2R and have it auto switch resolution? Not even sure if this is possible but made sense to ask.

I think you said you don't use Arcade OSD. So after generating and installing modes with VMMaker, how do you change desktop resolution? Like after I run VMMaker, it will settle on 640x240p, which makes for a stretched desktop. I change it to 320x240p or 640x480i with OSD.

 

[purdobol]

Can you run stuff like non-GroovyMame emulators, Steam games and AM2R and have it auto switch resolution? Not even sure if this is possible but made sense to ask.

Of course. If the mode is available systemwise every aplication can autoswitch to it. Just like switching resolution in PC game (from options menu). You just have to make sure the mode is available and aplication is in fullscreen (real fullscreen not windowed). Arcade OSD displays all available resolutions, and is useful for easy switching desktop res. Which sometimes is handy. For example retroarch can autoswitch flawlessly when video driver is set to d3d (but it has awful input lag) but cannot when set in gl. So in order to use retroarch with relatively low lag I'm switching res manually using OSD.

What i don't use OSD for is fixing geometry issues. Because it only affects OSD generated modes not VMMaker (system) ones.

Also I would not recommend using "normal" resolutions like 320x240 because nearly every system have different horizontal res. Instead would reccomend using superwide modes (2560x240 etc).

EDIT: Checked AM2R (which i didn't know such cool thing exist, so thanks btw ). And it works fine and looks gorgeous on crt tv. But does not autoswitch resolutions. It picks whatever desktop is set to and applies scaling. Also streching option does not work so it requires 320x240 mode. I'll post some pictures later. Thanks again!

 

[televator]

I've got Enthusia, and a slim PS2. I'd offer a comparison but I run mine over component to a Sharp SD lcd.

You mean a 480p lcd? It'd be interesting, still. In my tests in the past thread, real hardware PS2 exhibits some rather nasty edge artifacts in Silent Hill 2 compared to PS3. Would be nice to see if someone else has the same zig-zagged/torn edges that I saw.

Plus there's a distortion over the screen that gives the appearence of cracked glass. This is via the same component cable that I'm using on PS3 and it looks fine on that system.

 

[gingerbeardman]

Yes, 480p LCD.

I'll post some photos when I get home next week.

Sadly, I don't have a PS3 that can run PS2 games.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I'm working on that Framemeister FAQ and thought I would post the rough edit of it here before cleaning it up and making it look fancy to go into one of the OPs. I know someone in the previous thread mentioned differences for PAL but they never PMed me about those things, so I can just go by what I know for NTSC stuff. I tried to address some of the obvious stuff and more common stuff that got asked in the last thread. Let me know if anyone can think of any other questions to add to it before I clean up the edit and make it look pretty for the board.

Q:What is the Framemeister?
A:The Framemeister is an upscaling device focused on upscaling the 240p signal coming from most retro video game consoles. Since it’s built around handling 240p content it does a better job of upscaling the signal than most modern TVs do. Specially since many modern tvs see the 240p signal as 480i and handle it incorrectly.

Q:How much lag does the framemeister add?
A:In general the Framemeister adds about 16ms of lag, or about 1 frame at 60FPS.

Q:What inputs does the Framemeister support?
A: On the back of the system you have 2 HDMI ins, and the D-Sub (component) in with its two stereo audio ins. On the front of the system you have Composite and S-Video. These share a stereo audio input. You also have the mini din that supports RGB and Stereo Audio.

Q:What outputs does the Framemeister support?
A:The Framemeister only outputs through HDMI.

Q:Ummm how do I get RGB into that little din on the front?
A:You need either a JP21 or Euro SCART to Framemeister Adaptor

Q:Well where do I get one of those?
A:You can now order your Framemeister with either adaptor, or you can buy one from either http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/ or http://www.ebay.com/usr/retro_console_accessories

Q: So I’ve decided to get a Framemeister, where the hell do I buy one of these from?
A: Your best choice is Solaris Japan. https://solarisjapan.com/collections/micomsoft/XRGB this is USUALLY the most affordable option. They have bundles that include component to D-Sub adaptors and they now have versions that ship with either JP21 or Euro SCART adaptors.

Q:MY FRAMEMEISTER IS HERE!!! Ohh uhh wait everything is in Japanese, even the controller, WHAT DO I DO??!!!
A: Ok the first thing you want to do is grab the latest firmware from Micomsoft’s website and update your Framemeister to both the latest version and the English one. You can find that here http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-mini_download.htm . For the controller both http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/ and a variety of Ebay sellers, sell English overlay stickers for the controller.

Q:Awesomesauce!........but how do I update my Framemeister’s firmware?
A: You’ll want to take the file you downloaded and unzip it directly onto a microSD card. Don’t extract it into an XRGBmini folder, let the folders sit directly in the root of your microSD card. It should have the following folders EDID, EEPData, invdata, and Update. With your Framemeister unplugged, insert the SD card in the slot on the back. Plug the Framemeister in now, and you’ll see the lights on the front of it flashing back and forth. (green lights will flash, red light will stay on) when the lights are done flashing and only the red stand-bye light is on your Framemeister will be done updating. Now you can power it on and you’ll have the latest firmware and it’ll be in English!

Q: Great, now that it’s updated, and I have an English overlay, how do I make my games look good and what are all these options?
A: So I would love to go over every option here with you BUT that would take too long. So I will point you to some great info already out there. JunkerHQ has a fantastic wiki up that covers a lot of the options found in the framemeister, and gives them some explanations. http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB-mini_FRAMEMEISTER To really make your games sing with it, you’ll want to start using Profiles for each individual system (sometimes more than one per system). The youtube creator ImplantGames also has a fantastic How To: XRGB-Mini Framemeister series that goes over a lot of the functions and options and general how to use the system. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4ngkmg51Bea36_jKwc8cjf7fCVunV6MR

Q:What’s a Profile?
A: A profile is a file saved on the SD card of your Framemeister that saves settings for all of its options that you can load before you play a game.

Q:Wow that’s awesome but there’s so many options, is there anyway I can download these profiles that others have made?
A:Absolutely. FirebrandX has a website dedicated to Framemeister profiles. He includes both 4x and 5x integer scale profiles focused on getting the most accurate output at 1080p. http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html ImplantGames’ How to XRGB-Mini series also includes profiles for systems. These you will have to enter and save yourself but a nice alternative to Firebrandx’s Profiles. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4ngkmg51Bea36_jKwc8cjf7fCVunV6MR

Q:Where should I put these profiles on my SD card?
A:You want to put your profile files into the EEPData folder on your Framemeister’s SD card. It should be noted that the Framemeister will only recognize up to 20 profiles in this folder.

Q:How do I load up one of these profiles?
A:Bring up the Framemeister’s menu and scroll down to Data, enter that brand and pick Load, now select the profile you want to load and you’re set. You will see also Load_Select, but this only Loads some of the settings, others like your Zoom setting will not be loaded, it’s best to go with Load.

 

[Peltz]

Fair enough points.

Rant incoming about the whole thing, not directly related to the quotes above

.....

It's not about the controllers of the past, it's about how until that point controllers and game designs evolved and largely improved symbiotically along with graphics. SNES introduces shoulder buttons for strafing. Street Fighter needed more buttons - arcades (and Sega consoles) go 6 button. 3D games needed analogue control for movement in 3D spaces - N64 introduced the modern stick. Non visual/audio feedback as a game feature? Rumble Pak. Racers need analogue accelerator - Dreamcast triggers (technically Saturn 3D pad). But that stopped. Why did it stop? Because no mainstream market leader has had any real imagination or bravery or been forward thinking for 20 years.

We're essentially permanently stuck with a SNES pad with two N64 sticks and Dreamcast triggers grafted on. The PS1 Dual Shock controller we still have (in refined form) is not the best controller possible, it's just the most generic. The diamond layout is still there to support legacy game designs like fighting games, but that's the point - legacy is holding back progress. The PS4 controller is still a bad controller for Street Fighter anyway, I'd prefer it being okay for legacy/specialty games to require a legacy controller, aka a classic controller, allowing new game designs to dictate where controllers head.

The Gamcube face button layout for a small example was bad for legacy games but objectively superior for forward looking games - the ability to have a clear home position and naturally rock from one main button to the three secondary buttons easily is simply superior, 99% of games use one button more than others, so less movement for the same button access is objectively a good thing. But it can't play Street Fighter very well so fuck progress right? Same with the Wii pointer, an incredibly useful tool for new and improved gameplay features (which was enabled by both its own technology and having separate controller pieces for each hand), now gone again.

I understand why it is like this. Sony is not a game company, they are a commodity media conglomerate/appliance maker (and insurance company lol), and they primarily target the same joe six pack over and over who will be afraid of change and will never buy a supplemental controller. So they need the safest, most backward compatible controller possible. Nintendo has also lost it and has reverted to same basic template (notwithstanding the giant screen in the middle of their current main pad).

But this isn't progress. It isn't brave. It isn't innovative. It's safety first, everything else be damned. Just like the generic PC-in-a-black-box systems we now have for consoles.

My ideal solution for progress is to plow on innovating in all spaces, software and hardware with new ideas, and iterations of old ideas can be supported as niches with special hardware - just like we used to have, eg light guns, dance mats, first party arcade sticks. The best possible set up right now still needs different hardware for different purposes - probably an Xbox One controller for FPS, a Wii Remote for pointer, a SNES pad for 2D platform/action, and a Saturn pad or arcade stick for fighters.

Yes I realise my above ideal probably makes no business sense. I mean it did with the Wii/DS but the western industry wanted the bad Chrono Trigger ending ('the Future refused to change') so effectively the most profitable and innovative console/handheld of all time was overruled by everyone else... I'm just explaining why I am unimpressed with games (including they way they are controlled) staying exactly the same with better graphics only. It's turned into a boring commodity.

.....

Sorry this isn't really relevant to this thread!

I applaud everything here and 100% agree with you. Today's 2 major consoles have failed to differentiate themselves from PCs in the same way that previous consoles did. I personally want them to continue to innovate on input methods and take bold risks. This is why the Wii is still my favorite console of all time.

With that said, however, modern controllers still allow for a very nuanced fidelity of control and you shouldn't knock them down. If you need any proof of that, take a look at some videos of good Rocket League players. They pull off the most nuanced stunts with incredible precision using a traditional dual analogue setup. We wouldn't necessarily see such a refined game if the control pads

Furthermore, this week, PSVR looks to be a bold new step for a new way to play games on consoles as well -which is what we need.

Finally, NX could also represent a really fresh experience depending on what it is.

I don't really think it's fair to totally knock modern consoles and say they aren't as good as previous gens just because things have sort of stagnated in one (albeit important) area.

Some people consider dual analogue control akin to a steering wheel in a car: there's no point in messing with something standard and familiar. (Personally, I don't share this view, but I respect it).

 

[Peltz]

You know what I realized? I totally prefer Wii games (on original Wii hardware) upscaled to 1080p on my 60" HDTV rather than playing them on my 20" PVM.

Yes, the degree of aliasing is profound. And a PVM has way better colors and IQ at (even at 480i) than my 1080p LED HDTV ever will. But dammit, the games still look better to me even with all that aliasing on my HDTV. The image is just so much more stable when it's progressive scan and they still look really good when blown up on a 60" screen. I would not be shocked if some of the developers designed the games with upscaling in mind (similar to how Xbox 360 and PS3 developers designed games at sub-HD resolutions for performance reasons) because of how detailed they look when played on a large screen.

Furthermore, Wii games that use pointer controls (like the Pikmin ports) simply feel better when the screen is large and far away than when it's close and smaller in size. After trying to play Wii games on my small screen, I totally get why some people found motion controls annoying: you need a certain distance from the display to play comfortably. At 20 inches, things start to feel really cramped at 5-6 feet (which I found to be the minimum distance for adequate controls), especially if the game is letterboxed as many later-gen Wii games were on a 4:3 display.

For example, trying to play LOZ:SS letterboxed on a 20" screen gives you a play area that feels like its less than 10 inches tall (although I didn't actually measure this yet). And you can't really do motion controls in that game with the screen close to you so you're forced to squint at a tiny play area from far away if you want to play the game on a moderately sized 4:3 CRT as I attempted to do yesterday.

This makes me wish I had a decent sized 16:9 CRT monitor so badly so that I could see these games in their native resolution with perfect SD image quality. But really, I'd argue the games still look almost as good as HD games from the era when blown up to 1080p. No, the image quality is not comparable, but the sense of scale offered by many of the games like Xenoblade, Pikmin, and Metroid Prime certainly feel in the same league as Gears of War, Demon's Souls, and Bioshock.

I'd argue that even with the hardware limitations, many Wii games were meant to be on HDTVs.

P.S. I'm still team CRT for all 4:3 480i and 240p content even though I have a framemeister. I am also now more firmly team HDTV for all 16:9 480p content.

It's the 4:3 480p content that makes me feel like I could go either way.

I take all of this back... Man... I must've really been craving a big screen that day lol.

I prefer playing all my Wii games on a CRT after all. Clean IQ from the proper distance, even at 480i. Plus the PVM just has such perfect colors that my HDTV can't match.

Are there any HDTV's (OLED maybe?) that have colors as nice as a PVM CRT?

 

[Khaz]

My Wii is on a 32 inches widescreen CRT. Not a big ass modern TV, but big enough to have several people playing in front of it without feeling cramped.

 

[Mega]

Are there any HDTV's (OLED maybe?) that have colors as nice as a PVM CRT?

OLED has more accurate and richer color than CRT and plasma. Better (less) motion blur than plasma. Also better contrast and deeper blacks than any display tech. Wait for next year's models for possible lag improvements and for the dust to settle on HDR standards.

I'm working on that Framemeister FAQ and thought I would post the rough edit of it here before cleaning it up and making it look fancy to go into one of the OPs. I know someone in the previous thread mentioned differences for PAL but they never PMed me about those things, so I can just go by what I know for NTSC stuff. I tried to address some of the obvious stuff and more common stuff that got asked in the last thread. Let me know if anyone can think of any other questions to add to it before I clean up the edit and make it look pretty for the board.

Nice guide. Personally I prefer the writing style with dry, straightforward questions over the ones posed like they're from a panicked and overexcited individual. Just a minor thing.

 

[televator]

I take all of this back... Man... I must've really been craving a big screen that day lol.

I prefer playing all my Wii games on a CRT after all. Clean IQ from the proper distance, even at 480i. Plus the PVM just has such perfect colors that my HDTV can't match.

Are there any HDTV's (OLED maybe?) that have colors as nice as a PVM CRT?

I already answered this for you before. Plasma surpassed pro CRTs a while ago. OLED is even better and now that HDR has come around HDTV tech is about to leave old tech to eat dust in terms of color reproduction, gradation, and peak brightness.

OLED has more accurate and richer color than CRT and plasma. Better (less) motion blur than plasma. Also better contrast and deeper blacks than any display tech. Wait for next year's models for possible lag improvements and for the dust to settle on HDR standards.

Less motion blur you say? Sample and hold enduced motion blur has been overcome on OLED? Without artifacting? I haven't been keeping up. School me, Mega.

 

[NormalFish]

The vita oled is relatively low quality and it looks gorgeous in motion.

 

[Narroo]

I finally got a CRT (again. I miss my old one from high school...)

PVM 14M2U.

I thought that I could pop a Disney WOW CD into my PS3, set it to 240i, and calibrate it. After all, the WOW CD has CRT test patterns, surely they should still work, right?

I didn't think this one through. Now I'm using 240p on my dreamcast, which only has composite. I'm getting...interesting results, to say the least. The Checkboard pattern turns into a set of rainbow strips, amoung other things...the guy who sold it to me ran 240p on a RGB modded SNES and it looked right then, so I guess it must be the cable.

Anywho, I'm off to calibrate what I can...any sugestions. Should I bother with things like overscan or geometry?

EDIT: 14incher, not a 20 incher, sadly.

 

[televator]

The vita oled is relatively low quality and it looks gorgeous in motion.

I'll take it over LCDs all day every day, but it's not free of motion blur. In fact, it blurs just as much as any LCD. That's the problem with sample/hold. My plasma has the upper hand on it easily. Since it's an early OLED, it also suffers from moire and can be prone to burn in.

 

[Mega]

Less motion blur you say? Sample and hold enduced motion blur has been overcome on OLED? Without artifacting? I haven't been keeping up. School me, Mega.

I wonder that myself. Rtings review of this year's LG OLED claims there's no motion blur but I have to wonder how rigorous their testing and criteria was to declare blur defeated, because as recently as earlier this year I was under the impression we were far from getting CRT-like motion clarity.

Of course. If the mode is available systemwise every aplication can autoswitch to it. Just like switching resolution in PC game (from options menu). You just have to make sure the mode is available and aplication is in fullscreen (real fullscreen not windowed). Arcade OSD displays all available resolutions, and is useful for easy switching desktop res. Which sometimes is handy. For example retroarch can autoswitch flawlessly when video driver is set to d3d (but it has awful input lag) but cannot when set in gl. So in order to use retroarch with relatively low lag I'm switching res manually using OSD.

What i don't use OSD for is fixing geometry issues. Because it only affects OSD generated modes not VMMaker (system) ones.

Also I would not recommend using "normal" resolutions like 320x240 because nearly every system have different horizontal res. Instead would reccomend using superwide modes (2560x240 etc).

EDIT: Checked AM2R (which i didn't know such cool thing exist, so thanks btw ). And it works fine and looks gorgeous on crt tv. But does not autoswitch resolutions. It picks whatever desktop is set to and applies scaling. Also streching option does not work so it requires 320x240 mode. I'll post some pictures later. Thanks again!

Thanks. Just to be clear, a typical emulator in fullscreen mode will auto-switch to the superwide resolutions? I should just go test this myself instead of asking!

I also finally set up the Extron 202 Rxi I purchased back in June! The DB9 connector is what surprised and threw off my initial setup... I set it aside even after ordering all the right cables. This box generates a true RGBS signal (converted from my GroovyMame PC's RGBHV VGA). There's a level boost, helpful because the default output from my Mame PC was a little dim. And most important of all the serration pulse on/off dip switch finally fixes the distortion I was getting at the top of the screen on my JVC monitor. As an awesome bonus it has two dials on the front to instantly adjust the horizontal and vertical position of the output... which is huge because some arcade games by default aren't situated on the screen in the most ideal way (eg. bottom floor is cut off in Donkey Kong).

 

[dallow_bg]

I wonder that myself. Rtings review of this year's LG OLED claims there's no motion blur but I have to wonder how rigorous their testing and criteria was to declare blur defeated, because as recently as earlier this year I was under the impression we were far from getting CRT-like motion clarity.

It's because of semantics. "Motion blur" as a term refers to blur as a result of trails from movement.
The "blur" seen from OLED sample and hold is not that but looks like blur due to repeated images.

OLED isn't there as tops for motion yet but for most people it's fine.

 

[Mega]

It's because of semantics. "Motion blur" as a term refers to blur as a result of trails from movement.
The "blur" seen from OLED sample and hold is not that but looks like blur due to repeated images.

Got it. So they mean it has no traditional ghosting as seen in older LCDs and plasmas... but eye-induced blur is still an issue.

 

[dallow_bg]

Got it. So they mean it has no traditional ghosting as seen in older LCDs and plasmas... but eye-induced blur is still an issue.

Yeah. And most people don't notice it to be honest.
If you do then it can be distracting when compared to final gen plasmas and CRT.

 

[purdobol]

Thanks. Just to be clear, a typical emulator in fullscreen mode will auto-switch to the superwide resolutions? I should just go test this myself instead of asking!

Yes. Most of them switch to resolutions set in options/config files.
Posted some pics of AM2R in scanline thread if anyone is interested.

 

[Morfeo]

I'm working on that Framemeister FAQ and thought I would post the rough edit of it here before cleaning it up and making it look fancy to go into one of the OPs. I know someone in the previous thread mentioned differences for PAL but they never PMed me about those things, so I can just go by what I know for NTSC stuff. .

It was me who wrote about it. The important thing about PAL-sources, is that they often output in other resolutions than 240p and 480i/480p. For instance, PS1 output in 288p, which means that if you want clean scanlines, you cant set output to 720p like with ntsc-sources. You need to set it to 576p. This resolution difference is the most important thing to remember when using pal-sources, and it means that the profiles and advices you will find on most forums, are not always applicable for pal sources unfortunately. The important thing when using pal-consoles is to know what output resolution it has, and basically adjust your settings for that.

 

[Kiddy Dong]

I've been looking into CRT computer monitors as a 480p alternative to expensive pro monitors, seeing as most of my gaming is 6th gen. Can anyone vouch for a YPbPr component to VGA converter that is of good quality?

 

[sugarless]

I've made a good-faith effort to find the answer to this question so apologies in advance if it's been covered, but here goes...

I have a Super Famicom with an RGB SCART cable to connect it to the TV (Sony Bravia Android TV from 2015 - model number KDL-55W805C).The picture is nice and vibrant; it has that diagonal line thing going on but it's not a dealbreaker. However, the image judders constantly, by a few pixels on the horizontal axis, once or twice a second. I tried taking a video to demonstrate the effect but it doesn't actually show up on my phone camera, possibly due to the picture stabilisation kicking in.

Has anyone experienced this? It's very distracting, needless to say. I know it's not the SFC as the original SFC composite cable doesn't produce this effect, but the drop in image quality is pretty severe. I actually have to use the composite cable through a SCART adapter due to lack of yellow video port on the TV, so I guess that means I can rule out a SCART port issue.

I also have a 14" Philips CRT which it works OK on albeit with separate issues (very off-centre picture to the left, the TV has awful sound and I can't turn off the channel number display...but the CRT goodness is there in principle!).

Again, sorry if this is a covered issue, maybe my search-fu isn't good enough but I haven't found anything about it.

 

[D.Lo]

I've made a good-faith effort to find the answer to this question so apologies in advance if it's been covered, but here goes...

I have a Super Famicom with an RGB SCART cable to connect it to the TV (Sony Bravia Android TV from 2015 - model number KDL-55W805C).The picture is nice and vibrant; it has that diagonal line thing going on but it's not a dealbreaker. However, the image judders constantly, by a few pixels on the horizontal axis, once or twice a second. I tried taking a video to demonstrate the effect but it doesn't actually show up on my phone camera, possibly due to the picture stabilisation kicking in.

Has anyone experienced this? It's very distracting, needless to say. I know it's not the SFC as the original SFC composite cable doesn't produce this effect, but the drop in image quality is pretty severe. I actually have to use the composite cable through a SCART adapter due to lack of yellow video port on the TV, so I guess that means I can rule out a SCART port issue.

I also have a 14" Philips CRT which it works OK on albeit with separate issues (very off-centre picture to the left, the TV has awful sound and I can't turn off the channel number display...but the CRT goodness is there in principle!).

Again, sorry if this is a covered issue, maybe my search-fu isn't good enough but I haven't found anything about it.

Sounds like a sync issue to me.

The SNES usually outputs a very strong sync signal, but maybe not strong enough for that screen, or maybe the cable uses composite video for sync.

A composite (pure) sync or sync-on luma cable would fix that issue.

Here's something I just found from a quick google:

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/composite-video-vs-composite-sync

 

[gingerbeardman]

I also have a 14" Philips CRT which it works OK on albeit with separate issues (very off-centre picture to the left, the TV has awful sound and I can't turn off the channel number display...but the CRT goodness is there in principle!).

For your Philips TV a universal remote can put it in service mode and you can adjust the horizontal position (make sure to write down all the original settings)

http://www.riddledtv.com/forums/philips-magnavox-service-menu-codes-plasma-lcd-crt-rptv-t288.html

I did this with my 14" Philips CRT

 

[sugarless]

Sounds like a sync issue to me.

For your Philips TV a universal remote can put it in service mode and you can adjust the horizontal position (make sure to write down all the original settings)

Wow, thank you both very much! Sorry if it was something that is super obvious, I wasn't aware my issue was to do with sync so I guess my search queries weren't hitting the mark. I will definitely look into both resources you posted and ideally can post a pic of a great looking picture someday soon!

 

[Shin Johnpv]

It was me who wrote about it. The important thing about PAL-sources, is that they often output in other resolutions than 240p and 480i/480p. For instance, PS1 output in 288p, which means that if you want clean scanlines, you cant set output to 720p like with ntsc-sources. You need to set it to 576p. This resolution difference is the most important thing to remember when using pal-sources, and it means that the profiles and advices you will find on most forums, are not always applicable for pal sources unfortunately. The important thing when using pal-consoles is to know what output resolution it has, and basically adjust your settings for that.

Ok I'll work that into the FAQ as well.

I've made a good-faith effort to find the answer to this question so apologies in advance if it's been covered, but here goes...

I have a Super Famicom with an RGB SCART cable to connect it to the TV (Sony Bravia Android TV from 2015 - model number KDL-55W805C).The picture is nice and vibrant; it has that diagonal line thing going on but it's not a dealbreaker. However, the image judders constantly, by a few pixels on the horizontal axis, once or twice a second. I tried taking a video to demonstrate the effect but it doesn't actually show up on my phone camera, possibly due to the picture stabilisation kicking in.

Has anyone experienced this? It's very distracting, needless to say. I know it's not the SFC as the original SFC composite cable doesn't produce this effect, but the drop in image quality is pretty severe. I actually have to use the composite cable through a SCART adapter due to lack of yellow video port on the TV, so I guess that means I can rule out a SCART port issue.

I also have a 14" Philips CRT which it works OK on albeit with separate issues (very off-centre picture to the left, the TV has awful sound and I can't turn off the channel number display...but the CRT goodness is there in principle!).

Again, sorry if this is a covered issue, maybe my search-fu isn't good enough but I haven't found anything about it.

I've seen some one have this issue before. In fact I recently saw a youtube video about it, I think it came on from some random clicking, or maybe it was in the previous thread, but it turned out to be the cables. As soon as they changed to better quality (and 100% confirmed to be csync cables) everything cleared up, and the shakeyness went away.

 

[Peltz]

The vita oled is relatively low quality and it looks gorgeous in motion.

Right, that's true. I forgot about that.

I guess my issue is that it's hard for me to compare new tech to CRT tech because I don't play the same content on my PVM that I played on my last plasma or my Vita OLED.

I'm also currently using an LED HDTV since my last Plasma died (and there were no longer any plasmas on the market by then) and as you'd expect, the PVM seems to destroy that. So I guess I'm letting my current bias against my own fixed pixel display play into my question at the time being.

It seems like waiting for 4k HDR capable OLED prices to come down and get less laggy really is the answer to all of my needs. But getting there sure feels like it will take a long time.

/end rant

 

[Peagles]

I've been looking into CRT computer monitors as a 480p alternative to expensive pro monitors, seeing as most of my gaming is 6th gen. Can anyone vouch for a YPbPr component to VGA converter that is of good quality?

I haven't ordered one yet but was thinking of doing the same and grabbing a Garo from Beharbros, as I love their Toro box.

 

[TAFK]

Alright so I got a PS3 component cable and was testing it with the PS2 yesterday, seems to work great although when the screen went to black inbetween matches of KOFXI (which i was using to test) I seemed to have some static on the screen, kinda a very faint version of this.

Anyone have any idea what might be causing it? I'm using a Sony Bravia that can't be more than 6 months old, I have a feeling it might just be my PS2 going down the hole but not entirely sure. Any advice? Also anyone here using a Bravia and want to share what picture settings they're using? I wasn't sure what was giving me the best picture quality.

 

[sugarless]

Ok I'll work that into the FAQ as well.



I've seen some one have this issue before. In fact I recently saw a youtube video about it, I think it came on from some random clicking, or maybe it was in the previous thread, but it turned out to be the cables. As soon as they changed to better quality (and 100% confirmed to be csync cables) everything cleared up, and the shakeyness went away.

Yeah I don't think mine is a synced cable and from what I can see Csync is what I can get, because the Luma ones are all for PAL machines. I expect when I get a new cable the issue will be fixed. But it looks like I need to check which chip version my SFC is, so have ordered the special screwdriver for opening it up. This is the deepest I've ever gone for retroa A/V stuff so I'm hoping I don't mess it all up...

 

[Khaz]

Alright so I got a PS3 component cable and was testing it with the PS2 yesterday, seems to work great although when the screen went to black inbetween matches of KOFXI (which i was using to test) I seemed to have some static on the screen, kinda a very faint version of this.

Static is usually a sign of interferences. Even though Component is less sensitive to it than RGB, check if your cable is properly shielded and doesn't lie close to magnets (speakers), power supplies or other unshielded cables. Your TV may also amplify the phenomenon with its modern picture enhancements, like sharpening. Can you hear humming sounds in the audio? Do you have other video equipment with Component to test?

 

[Ashby]

How OCD are you guys about not losing any picture to overscan/having a perfectly centered image? I am overly so and I've really been trying to break the habit.

 

[NormalFish]

How OCD are you guys about not losing any picture to overscan/having a perfectly centered image? I am overly so and I've really been trying to break the habit.

In this day of 1080p displays, I've learned not to miss a few lines. Thankfully, most games have the sensibility to leave a few lines on the top and bottom clear of vital information.

 

[BNGames]

My Sony PVM 20M4U through an original SNES on RGB SCART

 

[missile]

... but eye-induced blur is still an issue.

On of those is the blur induced via the afterimage effect, i.e. when being
adapted to dim light while observing bright objects (but not fixing on them)
on a screen moving along. White objects cast a somewhat bluish trail and
colored ones cast their complementary color.

The effect, as I understand it, is due to the rods of the retina becoming more
active as the lights go down (mesocopic vision). Due to their slower adaption
rate a second response/image will be produced about a quarter of a second later
coupled in some ways with the first one. And because the fovea is free of any
rods, the effect disappears when fixating a moving object. Hence, at low lights
you always get sort a blur for non-fovated vision if both the cones and rods
are active. And because the rods are more sensitive to blue and green, the
effect is much less pronounced for yellowish and esp. redish colors.

But we are used to it.

Just an idea; Well, I think this sort of blur can be countered by tracking
the eyes (or being fixed at the center of the screen), estimating the motion
and location of the objects on the retina (mapping the screen to visual
degrees) while applying an image filter countering the objects complementary
color trails. Ever heard of it?

 

[Narroo]

Alright, I have a question about Component versus RGB on PS2 systems. Why do I need to go through the trouble of adapting an RGB SCART to BNC outputs if my system and monitor support Sync on Green?

My understanding of the main physical difference between RBG SCART versus Component is that, if you're using BNC connections, that RGB SCART has four lines; Red-Green-Blue And Sync. But, the PS2 supports Sync on Green which only needs three wires; Red-Green-Blue, which corresponds to component YPbPr cables.

So, I'm thinking it's a bit silly to have to split a scart cable into three RBG channels when I already have a component cable that has three video channels on it. They're just wires at the end of the day.

Of course, I tried seeing if I could get RGsB out of my component cables, because why not? Well, switching the TV to RGB mode gives a green picture, and then switching the PS2 to RBG gives a correctly colored picture, at the expense of a rapidly warping image. So it doesn't work.

I'm wondering why it doesn't work. From a Physical perspective. All I can think of is that the wiring on the PS2 connector is different somehow?

Anyone here know why from a physical standpoint you can't do RGsB on PS2 component cables?

 

[purdobol]

Of course, I tried seeing if I could get RGsB out of my component cables, because why not? Well, switching the TV to RGB mode gives a green picture, and then switching the PS2 to RBG gives a correctly colored picture, at the expense of a rapidly warping image. So it doesn't work.

What TV/Monitor you have? It should work on component cables. Look for internal/external sync mode setting on the tv.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

Alright, I have a question about Component versus RGB on PS2 systems. Why do I need to go through the trouble of adapting an RGB SCART to BNC outputs if my system and monitor support Sync on Green?

My understanding of the main physical difference between RBG SCART versus Component is that, if you're using BNC connections, that RGB SCART has four lines; Red-Green-Blue And Sync. But, the PS2 supports Sync on Green which only needs three wires; Red-Green-Blue, which corresponds to component YPbPr cables.

So, I'm thinking it's a bit silly to have to split a scart cable into three RBG channels when I already have a component cable that has three video channels on it. They're just wires at the end of the day.

Of course, I tried seeing if I could get RGsB out of my component cables, because why not? Well, switching the TV to RGB mode gives a green picture, and then switching the PS2 to RBG gives a correctly colored picture, at the expense of a rapidly warping image. So it doesn't work.

I'm wondering why it doesn't work. From a Physical perspective. All I can think of is that the wiring on the PS2 connector is different somehow?

Anyone here know why from a physical standpoint you can't do RGsB on PS2 component cables?

What kind of TV do you have? It might not support sync-on-green.

You can just get SCART cables that work on ps1/ps2 that hopefully have sync tied to the Luma line.