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[PumpkinSpice]

edit: so my set is rated for 1080p @ 60Hz 18.5 ms. What is the framemesiter, 16ms? so 34.5? Is that acceptable?

I don't think the amount of latency is consistent. It depends on the mode you're using and the input signal as some systems/games run at slightly out of spec frequencies that need to be compensated for, adding a bit of latency.

There's a way to see what the FM is measuring it's latency at by going to full STATUS->FULL_STATUS -> right twice to get to page 3. On my Saturn it's reporting 3.95ms delay in Policenauts, on SNES it's reporting 1.29ms in Super Castlevania IV.

Edit: I tried with my GC over interlaced w/ good deinterlacing on and it's reporting 1.5ms so I don't think this is a complete picture.

 

[Galdelico]

Depends somewhat on the display you're using, but there's still like... a second, maybe a little less, of delay, when switching between 240p and 480i. In practice, it's quick enough that I wasn't bothered at all. And I'm easily bothered.

Yeah, it's not nearly as bad as the framemeister, but you still typically get a blip where the signal drops and resyncs. Just the nature of these things.

Apparently it's exacerbated by a number of things including splitters, capture cards (for recording), etc.. Not sure how much veracity those claims have at this point.

Yeah, that's not bad at all, and I know it wouldn't bother me either. Plus, that beautiful IQ makes it even more excusable.

 

[Brhoom]

Since one of the reasons I want a Framemeister is to play Silent Hill on an OLED TV with original hardware, I'll wait for a new version with no sync drop.

Spoiler

And to buy an OLED TV

Ultra Hdmi 64 will be in sha Allah my first entry into the Retro AV Club!

 

[Mega]

Mega you have experience with RGB matrix swtichers. Are these units process sync signals, or just act as typical pass through?

For example:
If I connect RGsB (IN) --> RGBS (OUT) --> TV/Monitor. Will I get that sync signal on V line (Vertical sync BNC connector)?
Or if i connect RGB HV (IN) --> RGBS (OUT) --> TV/Monitor. Will i get Csync on V line?
And so on.

Not just RGB. The matrix switch passes any input signal as long as there's a matching output connection. It's passthrough, no conversion.

In your first example, you should get sync on the G line of the RGBS out. The S line will go unused.

Your second example won't work because the V input will have nowhere to go out to the display. You can use a T connector to combine HV which is crude, can appear distorted and I hear it stresses equipment. What you want is a true sync combiner like the Extron 202/203.

 

[Omerta]

Hi people.

I'm on the verge of buying an SLG in a Box. Anyone got any experiences with them?

 

[Brhoom]

Hi people.

I'm on the verge of buying an SLG in a Box. Anyone got any experiences with them?

They talk about it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHoOKLWIMKU&ab_channel=MyLifeinGaming

Great channel! check them out if you don't know them

 

[arit]

Hi people.

I'm on the verge of buying an SLG in a Box. Anyone got any experiences with them?

In the end you are buying a 25$ scaler in a nicer box (sort of) and some additional hardware to make it somehow work. The OSSC is not that much more expensive if one is willing to wait.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

Hi people.

I'm on the verge of buying an SLG in a Box. Anyone got any experiences with them?

I don't have it but I did an good amount of research into it last year.

In short it's not bad but not very good and the kit is kind of overpriced for what you end up with.

It has this from-China GBS8200 thing in it which doesn't do a great job of handling 240p content as it treats it as interlaced and looks pretty bad in motion.

MLIG talked about it recently if you want more info.

 

[purdobol]

Not just RGB. The matrix switch passes any input signal as long as there's a matching output connection. It's passthrough, no conversion.

Thanks. Oredered one of those switchers and wasn't sure how to deal with sync. Need to make new cables. As for sync strippers/combiners I'm using dyi ones Extron 202/203 do not appear for sale here. Have lots of parts on hand for those so maight as well use them.

 

[Omerta]

Thanks everyone... so much info so quickly

 

[Mega]

Thanks. Oredered one of those switchers and wasn't sure how to deal with sync. Need to make new cables. As for sync strippers/combiners I'm using dyi ones Extron 202/203 do not appear for sale here. Have lots of parts on hand for those so maight as well use them.

If you make your own cables, you will save hundreds! I on the other hand ponied up the cash

The Extron 20x you can find on ebay. I think you need to have one. It does more than combine sync.

I also finally set up the Extron 202 Rxi I purchased back in June! The DB9 connector is what surprised and threw off my initial setup... I set it aside even after ordering all the right cables. This box generates a true RGBS signal (converted from my GroovyMame PC's RGBHV VGA). There's a level boost, helpful because the default output from my Mame PC was a little dim. And most important of all the serration pulse on/off dip switch finally fixes the distortion I was getting at the top of the screen on my JVC monitor. As an awesome bonus it has two dials on the front to instantly adjust the horizontal and vertical position of the output... which is huge because some arcade games by default aren't situated on the screen in the most ideal way (eg. bottom floor is cut off in Donkey Kong).

You should totally run all three at the same time and take some pictures.

Here, have some oldies. edit: omg I should've gone a picture of when we played 4-player Four Swords with the two bottom monitors so everyone wouldn't have to crowd around one.

 

[gingerbeardman]

There's no operation time setting on PVMs. Only BVMs. If it has no major screen issues and still looks relatively sharp, bright and saturated without having to crank up any dials, then you've got a good one on your hands that has seen low-medium use.

Super. All 3 fit that description. One is missing the flip cover for the controls, otherwise they're pretty much identical.

 

[drhankmccoyphd]

I don't think the amount of latency is consistent. It depends on the mode you're using and the input signal as some systems/games run at slightly out of spec frequencies that need to be compensated for, adding a bit of latency.

There's a way to see what the FM is measuring it's latency at by going to full STATUS->FULL_STATUS -> right twice to get to page 3. On my Saturn it's reporting 3.95ms delay in Policenauts, on SNES it's reporting 1.29ms in Super Castlevania IV.

Edit: I tried with my GC over interlaced w/ good deinterlacing on and it's reporting 1.5ms so I don't think this is a complete picture.

Wow is it really that low? Every where I've read has the FM at 15-20ms.

 

[purdobol]

The Extron 20x you can find on ebay. I think you need to have one. It does more than combine sync.

I'm patient. Will wait till it pop up at main auction stie in my country. Cannot justify the cost to bring it here from USA. 113€ + 57€ shipping (ebay Germany) or 102£ + 51£ shipping (ebay UK). HV centering is tempting though.

This works like a charm for now. Have couple more XOR gates and a box full of resistors/caps on hand. Although not sorted in any way. So looking for specific part is a pain :/

 

[Peltz]

First party goodness. I was not expecting this to come factory sealed:

Dreamcast looks so good over RGB.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

I still need to pick up a Dreamcast S-Video Cable, but the first party stuff is stupid expensive on eBay.

 

[Timu]

First party goodness. I was not expecting this to come factory sealed:



Dreamcast looks so good over RGB.

I need one of those for my Dreamcast even though I have a VGA box. It will come in handy for 240p and 480i games as well.

 

[gingerbeardman]

VGA for Dreamcast any day of the week. It's like a different machine.

 

[Peltz]

VGA for Dreamcast any day of the week. It's like a different machine.

Of course VGA is better, but that doesn't work for my setup. Dreamcast games still look absolutely incredible in 480i and 240p on my PVM. At 480i, you get razor sharp polygons with practically no aliasing at all. I forgot how good this generation of systems looked on a CRT.

To me personally, some of the games rival modern graphics for art style and overall beauty.

Plus, there really isn't that much difference between 480i and 480p at a certain distance from a CRT screen. Just some visible noise around text really.

 

[Khaz]

This works like a charm for now. Have couple more XOR gates and a box full of resistors/caps on hand. Although not sorted in any way. So looking for specific part is a pain :/

That reminds me I still need to make that cable, I received a bunch of 74LS86 some time ago but I never took the time to do it.

 

[Khaz]

Plus, there really isn't that much difference between 480i and 480p at a certain distance from a CRT screen. Just some visible noise around text really.

The flicker is really apparent on stills though :/

 

[sixteen-bit]

First party goodness. I was not expecting this to come factory sealed:



Dreamcast looks so good over RGB.

play gunbird 2 if you haven't. 240p tate magic.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

Wow is it really that low? Every where I've read has the FM at 15-20ms.

That's what the menu reports, but I think that's missing some part of the chain.

The amount of people that have a setup to properly measure that is pretty low but 20ms was an upper bound from what I remember. I'm not sure if that was with deinterlacing or just 240p, but the point I was trying to get it was that there's a variance on different sources.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

(double posting, but it's a completely different topic)

So I'm looking at what I'll need to RGB mod a PC Engine Duo R. I think I have all the internal components (I have some spare THS amps from a few years ago when I was trying to improve my SNES component mod). All that I need is to find a good external connector.

A lot of guides recommend desoldering the 5-pin DIN and replacing it with an 8-pin DIN. The only trouble with that is getting or making an RGB cable. Since it was DIN anyway and I'm only going to be using it with my Framemeister I thought maybe a DIN to mini-DIN cable, as long as I kept all the pins in the right place might work, or even just using the 8-pin DIN connector that I have from my NESRGB kit and pair it with a simple 8-pin DIN cable. Just direct to the FM RGB input, skipping the RGB SCART adapter.

That got me thinking. The 21-pin SCART connector kinda sucks. Why not just go 8-pin din on everything and connect direct to my FM without the adapter? Maybe not for systems I already have good RGB cables for, but I would kind of prefer that to buying $$ RGB cables or making my own with SCART to whatever cables for anything going forward.

The pinout is pretty straightforward too:

 

[NormalFish]

well you'd lose out in compatibility, of course, but if you're just using the framemeister that's probably way easier like you said. Scart connectors are honestly the worst.

 

[D.Lo]

That got me thinking. The 21-pin SCART connector kinda sucks. Why not just go 8-pin din on everything and connect direct to my FM without the adapter?

I've thought about that too. Scart was useful as an existing standard, but we're mostly only using six of those 21 pins, and it's an enourmous fragile plug.

Think how small an 8-pin mini din connector switch could be. Cables could be cheaper and more reliable. And it would be easy and cheap to make an adapter to turn it to scart again for legacy devices like EU TVs.

It's not going to happen because we're stuck with the historical plug, but it would be superior.

 

[NormalFish]

wouldn't a d-sub connector work, too? Bit bulkier than 8-din, but those plugs are a bit more standard, would be easier to acquire too.

Harder to mod consoles outputs for vga-vga, but if you've already got working outputs and want something better than scart.

never seen a d-sub switch though.

 

[D.Lo]

D-sub/VGA is a kind of bad plug too. Not as bad as scart, but doesn't hold nicely by itself, hence the screws to hold them in.

That said, if that was the direction it took I'd prefer it to scart.

The ultimate would be an original plastic plug like Nintendo AV plugs. Plastic on plastic except for some light pin contact doesn't scrape like metal on metal, and they last basically forever and don't break off like even DIN connectors can. But for exciting standards, din or mini din are pretty good.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

I've seen others standardize (for themselves) on a d-sub 15 / VGA connector but I don't like that since it is confusing.

Amusingly, Tim Worthington came to the same conclusion in settling on a default connector for NESRGB. So going NESRGB modded NES with the default 8-pin mini din it would be a snap just to use a long 8-pin mini din cable direct to the Framemeister RGB input.

 

[NormalFish]

D-sub/VGA is a kind of bad plug too. not as bad as scart, but doesn't hold nicely, hence the screws to hold them in.

That said, if that was the direction it took I'd prefer it to scart.

if scart had fasteners like DVI or VGA I wouldn't mind it quite so much. The shape of it, and the numbers of pins is an obvious improvement. To be honest, I think if I were to make my own switch and cables with some non standard plug, I'd be inclined to use simple BNC connectors. That seems like the easiest way to go.

Obviously doesn't solve the ouput issues for mods, though.

 

[D.Lo]

I've seen others standardize (for themselves) on a d-sub 15 / VGA connector but I don't like that since it is confusing.

Amusingly, Tim Worthington came to the same conclusion in settling on a default connector for NESRGB. So going NESRGB modded NES with the default 8-pin mini din it would be a snap just to use a long 8-pin mini din cable direct to the Framemeister RGB input.

Yep, it's a great choice for consoles requiring RGB mods because now you can have a high quality 'RGB cable' for like $2.

 

[v0yce]

Can anyone confirm if a Sony KV-27FS100 is light gun compatible?

It's a non HD CRT, but I've seen conflicting things.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Can anyone confirm if a Sony KV-27FS100 is light gun compatible?

It's a non HD CRT, but I've seen conflicting things.

I have a similar model (Sony KV-27FS120) and I played Elemental Gearbolt on it fine.

 

[Peltz]

The flicker is really apparent on stills though :/

Only from a close distance. 6 feet away on a 20 inch isn't noticeable at all.

 

[Timu]

Only from a close distance. 6 feet away on a 20 inch isn't noticeable at all.

I personally hate sitting far away from a screen, I like for it to be 2-3 feet. It helps me focus more as well, so that flicker will be annoying due to 480i.

Also give me 240p and 480p over that any day!!!

 

[Mega]

wouldn't a d-sub connector work, too? Bit bulkier than 8-din, but those plugs are a bit more standard, would be easier to acquire too.

Harder to mod consoles outputs for vga-vga, but if you've already got working outputs and want something better than scart.

never seen a d-sub switch though.

They exist, pretty cheap too.

 

[Galdelico]

play gunbird 2 if you haven't. 240p tate magic.

The Japanese version, at least. US Gunbird 2 doesn't seem to be RGB compatible (I mean, straight out of the box... I'm aware everything is probably patched and ready to go, nowadays).

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Does anyone have experience with a Framemeister on a 4k TV? I'm coming to the conclusion that I just want to game exclusively (modern and retro) on my Vizio 4k TV. The framemeister seems to be geared for 1080p so I don't know if the lag will be noticeable on my Vizio. I purposely got this one model, 2015 M-series, because of the low lag. But I'm thinking that the lag of upscaling 1080p plus the framemeister might be a dealbreaker. I'm on the waiting list for the OSSC, but who knows when I'll be able to get one.

edit: so my set is rated for 1080p @ 60Hz 18.5 ms. What is the framemesiter, 16ms? so 34.5? Is that acceptable?

I use my Framemeister on a 4K Samsung and it works pretty great. There is some lag but for most games its not that bad.

I've read that setting it for 720p is better for 4k, but so far I've seen no complaints about upscalers and 4k.

I don't think that's right. 1080p is a 2x scale to 4k, and 720p is a 3x scale. The difference in time to scale and its effect on lag are going to be negligible.

 

[gingerbeardman]

OK so what does it mean when I switch on the PVM but no input buttons light up, no picture is displayed, no remote light under the power light, no OSD and so no menu, and the rectangular tally light above the screen is glowing bright green?

Manual: https://docs.sony.com/release//PVM1353MD.PDF

Is this unit kaput?

 

[sixteen-bit]

The Japanese version, at least. US Gunbird 2 doesn't seem to be RGB compatible (I mean, straight out of the box... I'm aware everything is probably patched and ready to go, nowadays).

I took this pic a couple years ago. It's the US retail disc (no patches) on a PVM over RGB SCART. I'm almost positive it supports 240p, but I can try it again today to be sure.

 

[Galdelico]

Ha, that's very interesting.
Never had the chance to try the US version of the game (I own the JP one), but it was reported - I just double checked Bordersdown and, yeah, I remember correctly - to be on the non-RGB-ready list.

 

[Laevateinn]

They exist, pretty cheap too.

I need one of these for DA-15. For some reason it never occurred to me to look into this.

 

[KC-Slater]

I think I just joined the waiting list. Subscribing to the mailing list is sufficient? There doesn't appear to be a preorder option.

Yes -- just subscribe to the mailing list, and that should put you in the queue and you'll be notified when there is a batch ready for your order.

Just out of curiosity, did the firmware/OS/whatever manages OSSC's video settings get any substantial update, so far? I remember it being pretty barebones - in terms of image customization - at the time you posted your first impressions.

I'm not sure, TBH. I don't think I have personally updated since I recieved mine (I believe it came with the latest firm ware available at the time) but I haven't seen any updates, but I haven't been paying much attention. I did see there was some sort of digital audio upgrade available (hardware) but I don't have any interest in that. It just worked perfectly for my needs (Mega Drive, Saturn over RGB Scart and Dreamcast,Naomi over VGA) so I haven't had to mess around with much. I run the 240p stuff in line triple mode, and use it for scaliness and let the TV scale 480p natively. So far, so good!

On a serious note, we don't know whether the OSSC production will always remain so painfully slow, or not. Hopefully, at some point, they'll manage to provide a more consistent supply of units, throughout the whole year.

I imagine there will be other options available eventually (I think it's still open source, unless they back peddled on that?), but I can sympathize that the wait must be frustrating. I do believe there are DIY kits readily available, for those inclined.

I took this pic a couple years ago. It's the US retail disc (no patches) on a PVM over RGB SCART. I'm almost positive it supports 240p, but I can try it again today to be sure.

Can't you force 240p on a bunch of Capcom Dreamcast stuff? Even games that weren't marketed as supporting it? Maybe I'm imagining this?

 

[NormalFish]

OSSC firmware updates have some notable features. I'd quote the wiki but I'm on mobile.

Production should be quickening. You gotta remember it's just a couple hobbyists putting together the entire supply chain. And it's currently not open source, however marqs has said he intends to publish all the documentation once he gets the supply chain and firmware in a healthier place.

 

[Roge_NES]

Starwars Despecialized @ 720P

Played some HD content on the Sony PVM 20L5 and everything looks nice and sharp, unfortunately Sony disabled HD Blu ray playback through Component and it downscales it to 480i and DVD playback to 480P which still look pretty clean.


Videogames do run work 720p without problems though.

 

[Galdelico]

I'm not sure, TBH. I don't think I have personally updated since I recieved mine (I believe it came with the latest firm ware available at the time) but I haven't seen any updates, but I haven't been paying much attention. I did see there was some sort of digital audio upgrade available (hardware) but I don't have any interest in that. It just worked perfectly for my needs (Mega Drive, Saturn over RGB Scart and Dreamcast,Naomi over VGA) so I haven't had to mess around with much. I run the 240p stuff in line triple mode, and use it for scaliness and let the TV scale 480p natively. So far, so good!

Man you can say that for real. Your retro setup is all kinds of awesome.

I imagine there will be other options available eventually (I think it's still open source, unless they back peddled on that?), but I can sympathize that the wait must be frustrating. I do believe there are DIY kits readily available, for those inclined.

Yeah, I know about the DIY kit, but unfortunately it's not a viable option for me. I mean, I guess I could buy it, and then send it to someone else, in to have it assembled and ready, but I'm not aware of anyone offering such service around my area (or at least in Eurozone).

OSSC firmware updates have some notable features. I'd quote the wiki but I'm on mobile.

That sounds good, I'll check VGP and see if I can find what's been added so far.

 

[drhankmccoyphd]

So, if I buy a Framemeister, no matter what I need to get the Euro SCART adapter right? Seems like they all come with the JPN21 adapter.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

So, if I buy a Framemeister, no matter what I need to get the Euro SCART adapter right? Seems like they all come with the JPN21 adapter.

Some places will sell you it with the EURSCART adapter. I'd also recommend getting a D-terminal to component adapter while you're at it.

Also did they increase the price again? Or is my Canadian funny money just making it look that way?

 

[drhankmccoyphd]

Some places will sell you it with the EURSCART adapter. I'd also recommend getting a D-terminal to component adapter while you're at it.

Also did they increase the price again? Or is my Canadian funny money just making it look that way?

Thanks, whats the benefit of hooking up over component vs HDMI?

 

[Shin Johnpv]

The D-Terminal to component adapter isn't to connect the framemeister through HDMI, its to run component into the framemeister.

The framemeister only outputs through HDMI.