Polioliolio
Member
Is there no way to squash or stretch the image? If it's not in there, couldn't that be a firmware upgrade?
- RetroUSB AVS - Real Hardware HDMI NES Clone Console
- Thread starter Rich!
- Start date
I don't think it has that functionality and even if it was added and you were trying to match the NES aspect ratio (about 1.2 to 1.25), the sprites would be horizontally uneven and create a wavy effect when the screen scrolled.
To be fair, 4:3 (1.3~, 1024x720) would at least be a decent compromise. It's wider than normal but I think it's preferable to 3:3 scaling that makes it look too narrow. And it won't distort anything.
cacophony555
Member
Pictures would probably help...
Here's an example 1:1 stretch (too skinny):
Here's about how it looks when you hook a real NES to a CRT:
And here's an example of 4:3 stretch (too wide):
With 720p output your only two integer scaled options are 1:1 and 4:3. With 1080p output there are two different ways to achieve the correct look: 1) 4x height with 5x width. This will add black bars to the top and bottom. or 2). 5x height and 6x width. This will crop the top and bottom 5% of the image, which works out perfectly for getting rid of the pixels you're not supposed to see in overscan.
Here's an example 1:1 stretch (too skinny):
Here's about how it looks when you hook a real NES to a CRT:
And here's an example of 4:3 stretch (too wide):
With 720p output your only two integer scaled options are 1:1 and 4:3. With 1080p output there are two different ways to achieve the correct look: 1) 4x height with 5x width. This will add black bars to the top and bottom. or 2). 5x height and 6x width. This will crop the top and bottom 5% of the image, which works out perfectly for getting rid of the pixels you're not supposed to see in overscan.
MooMilk2929
Junior Member
Pictures would probably help...
And here's an example of 4:3 stretch (too wide):
Looks like you pressed L playing your Gameboy game on your GBA.
The AVS does 5:3 as well.
8bitForLife
Member
Seems like a really nitpicky review trying to bitch at a lesser cost system than he owns. I might of misread since iv had no sleep but he was complaining about the fpga in it compared to the kevtris one. Which to my knowledge doesn't the AVS have kevtris in it? Also isn't the NT that's coming out going to have kevtris's fpga also?
Correct me if i am wrong.
Jeremy has been around video games for a long, long time (we came up together in the fan scene) and one of his passions is retro gaming. You read a review from him about hardware like this because you want him to be nitpicky, and it has nothing to do with "bitching at a lesser cost system that he owns".
NoFaceNico
Member
I've heard the Metroid 'stretched' comparison works better when you put Samus in ball form. You know you have the right aspect ratio when the ball looks correctly spherical and proportioned.
cacophony555
Member
Yeah, I meant "your only two integer scaled options that come close to approximating the intended look are 1:1 and 4:3".
5:3 looks ridiculous IMO.
8bitForLife
Member
It was just the impression i got from it. I am sure he knows his stuff.
I think the AVS is a good product, when you want to get a system right now. For me there are some features missing, I'd like to have more options in terms of aspect ratio, color palettes (totally love the Playchoice 10 palette) and some other things. The NT Mini is quite cool, but at that price and 130 Dollar shipping to Europe I won't get it. My solution is a Japanese Famicom and Kevtris Hi-Def NES board. Mostly same options as the Mini, but cheaper.
Oh and talking about value, Kevtris is working on an FPGA console for a price between 200 and 250$. He also wants to implement Rom Loading from SD Card so you won't have to buy an Everdrive etc.
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-1
Somewhere in the thread he mentions, that he is definitely working on 16 Bit Systems implementation like the SNES and Genesis. Considering all that I can gladly skip both the AVS and NT Mini.
Oh and talking about value, Kevtris is working on an FPGA console for a price between 200 and 250$. He also wants to implement Rom Loading from SD Card so you won't have to buy an Everdrive etc.
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-1
Somewhere in the thread he mentions, that he is definitely working on 16 Bit Systems implementation like the SNES and Genesis. Considering all that I can gladly skip both the AVS and NT Mini.
No, the AVS uses a different, less expensivs FPGA (Xilnix Spartan 6) and it was all designed by bunnyboy. Kevtris designed the Hi-Def NES mod which uses an Altera Cyclone III.
The new NT Mini is indeed a FPGA hardware clone also designed by Kevtris with a newer version of the Hi-Def mod using a Cyclone V.
Kawika
Member
I bought a new house back in January. There was literally no good option for 1080p sets in the 65" range. If it was 1080p i had to make input lag sacrifices I wasn't comfortable with. I ended up getting the Sony XBR65810c which has pretty good ratings across the board but I really can't tell the difference with input lag (but I have never hooked up a 720p game to it either). on this 4K and my old smaller Samy 1080p.
I am one of those Analogue NT (1st wave) assholes that apparently had money to burn but what I got was a no compromise 1080p output for NES and Famicom games. It was a gateway drug. Since I got that, I also now have a Sony PVM and a XRGB Mini and all my consoles are either modded or output RGB or component natively (SNES, GEN, N64, GBA via 240p GCN's game boy player swiss software). The NT looks awesome on the 4K and i am able to play all the megaman games with very little issue.
There are compromises one makes to have a HDMI-out retro console but I feel that for all but a very small few it won't make a bit of a difference. I do wish the AVS was 1080p and I think that the 5x scale in 1080p is the best way to play upscaled retro games.
My suggestion to anyone with an AVS. Read reviews on the TVs (duh) and buy them from a retailer that will allow you to return it for whatever reason. If you don't like the sony try the samsung etc. Like you said, I wanted to wait for the low input lag OLEDs but that didn't fit with my time frame and need of a new tv for my home. Eventually, I will get one.
The great thing about these FPGA consoles is that in the future AVS can release a better version with a more powerful scaler. As time goes on, things will get better. $185 isn't a lot to spend on a retro gaming device that has HDMI out.
ToastyFrog
Inexplicable Treasure Hate
Hmm. The impression the review was meant to give was, "You can pay a lot more for an HD NES solution that does more, but this thing is damn good for the price."
Polioliolio
Member
That was what I gathered from the review.
Great job Jeremy.
About the AVS, I don't care much about the 720 upscaling thing, but I'm a little annoyed by the ratio not being like that on a CRT. I may not have noticed without it being pointed out, but I hope there's a solution for it anyway.
cacophony555
Member
New incredibly insightful AVS review by My Life in Gaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGSidnlOhd4
They cover palette differences, integer/non-integer scaling challenges, and much more!
They cover palette differences, integer/non-integer scaling challenges, and much more!
sixteen-bit
Member
This is the most comprehensive AVS review I have seen. I know they mentioned the NES Classic Edition review is forthcoming, but I hope these folks get hands on with the Nt Mini as well.
Nice. Any plans to sell these at this year's Portland Retro Gaming Expo?
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I'll probably be picking one up sometime in October. Looking forward to it.
Marty Chinn
Member
Looks like 1570 units in that picture.
BobbyColtrane
Member
Hell yeah! When are they going out?
dolabla
Member
I could be wrong, but it seems like I did see Brian say there will be (maybe it was a twitter reply to someone who asked, or it was on nintendoage). If you have facebook/twitter, I'd send him a message just to make sure.
He said soon. Said he's gonna be busy this weekend, so I'd assume they will start going out this upcoming week.
Polioliolio
Member
Oh buddy!
One of those little guys is Miiiiiinnnnee
Excellent review. Glad to see they've already sorted out a decent solution for the ratio thing, and they seem hopeful about possible firmware updates.
I'm so excited!
Guys, I need your list of NES/PAL exclusives that aren't present on Famicom.
I have a mostly full famicom cart collection scavenged while living abroad in Japan. What I'm lacking, and not fully aware of, are the NES and NES PAL exclusives that didn't come to Famicom.
I'd sure like to hear what your favorite exclusives are.
I have a number of them, but want to make sure I'm not missing anything big!
BobbyColtrane
Member
Even though I have a number of cartridges left from my childhood, the AVS has me planning to scour the city today to find some more NES carts before I get my console.
BobbyColtrane
Member
Just got my shipping notification!
riskVSreward
Member
Hell yeah, mine is on the way too!
dolabla
Member
Lucky! When did you pre-order? I didn't pre-order until the 17th.
BobbyColtrane
Member
August 8th
Polioliolio
Member
Post if you found anything!
I preordered the first day, no notification just yet!
riskVSreward
Member
I ordered as soon as it was available, hopefully you won't have to wait much longer.
Also, it hasn't actually been received by the USPS yet so he could just be going down the list now.
Also, it hasn't actually been received by the USPS yet so he could just be going down the list now.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I love everything about this project, but the case design is a little wonky. I think the implementation of the flap is a bit misguided, and it's going to look like crap with a Famicom game in there.
The Generation NEX was the superior case design that honours the orientation of NES and Famicom, in my opinion. Just plug NES into the front, and Famicom on top. Simple, elegant. Too bad as an NES clone it was poor, but it looked great (Fugly controller aside).
If there were a revision of the AVS, I'd hope it's closer to this. You could even still have an NES style flap on the front, if you liked.
The Generation NEX was the superior case design that honours the orientation of NES and Famicom, in my opinion. Just plug NES into the front, and Famicom on top. Simple, elegant. Too bad as an NES clone it was poor, but it looked great (Fugly controller aside).
If there were a revision of the AVS, I'd hope it's closer to this. You could even still have an NES style flap on the front, if you liked.
BobbyColtrane
Member
Ring King and Double Dragon 3 so far. I have another store to check.
I loved Ring King, hopefully it holds up.
I love everything about this project, but the case design is a little wonky. I think the implementation of the flap is a bit misguided, and it's going to look like crap with a Famicom game in there.
The Generation NEX was the superior case design that honours the orientation of NES and Famicom, in my opinion. Just plug NES into the front, and Famicom on top. Simple, elegant. Too bad as an NES clone it was poor, but it looked great (Fugly controller aside).
If there were a revision of the AVS, I'd hope it's closer to this. You could even still have an NES style flap on the front, if you liked.
I agree with this. This and the lack of RGB 240p output killed all my interest in the machine. Thankfully a revision can easily solve these two points.
Polioliolio
Member
I love everything about this project, but the case design is a little wonky. I think the implementation of the flap is a bit misguided, and it's going to look like crap with a Famicom game in there.
The Generation NEX was the superior case design that honours the orientation of NES and Famicom, in my opinion. Just plug NES into the front, and Famicom on top. Simple, elegant. Too bad as an NES clone it was poor, but it looked great (Fugly controller aside).
If there were a revision of the AVS, I'd hope it's closer to this. You could even still have an NES style flap on the front, if you liked.
What would have worked would be if the front part where insert the famicom disk sat lower, so the lid could still close all the way.
Fake edit: no that wouldn't work for the larger cartridges or the ram adapter.
It could be worse, but yeah, it looks a little goofy as is with the flap resting atop a famicom game.
About preorders, I didn't get mine in until the evening after work on the first day. Would be great if it shipped today, but even if it went out Monday, seems we should still all see it in the mail next week, right? Exciting!
Same here! Hopefully mine will arrive in time for next weekend.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Just watched the video and now I have a new concern: Firmware updates...is that going to be a Windows only thing? Am I super-fucked being a Mac user?
Polioliolio
Member
Doh! Still no shipping for me. There are probably a lot of people who preordered immediately.
Worst case scenario, you can update your AVS on the library's computers.
Worst case scenario, you can update your AVS on the library's computers.
Same here
El Pescado
Member
Mine should be here tomorrow.
Holy shit mine too. I was thinking I'd be lucky if I had it by the weekend.
riskVSreward
Member
Mine should be in tomorrow too. No clue what I'm gonna play first, but I'm still hope as fffuuuuuuuu