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[kaizoku]

The sensors can be used with projectors as well. That doesn't lend any more credibility to this rumor, but it is an interesting thought. I remember many of those quotes, but reading them all together like that sure does make you think. Could a mini projector fit under the flap on the front?

I didnt want to say this before as it makes me sound like I believe it and I'm a crazy Nbot - but when the press had their hands on with the Rev hardware, exploring the case etc, one gy looked at the flap and one Nintendo rep said "thats the Revolution right there".

Also Matt alluded to it being special just in the last week - wanting to know more about it etc, why if its just SD slots and USB ports? Maybe it is a projector holy cow!!!

It is kind of interesting the way they have the angle with the stand and everything.....

But no. It uses TVs dammit!

 

[citrus lump]

I would think cramming a projector into that tiny case along with a decent CPU/GPU would cause the thing to burst into flames. :lol

 

[choplifter]

"2-3%" just sounded funnier than 20-30%. So I went with it.

well 20-30% is wrong too. try 4 to 10 times, depending on the specific area of comparison.

the amount of RAM alone is a good indication. 512 MB / 88 MB = 5.8x
or 512 MB / 104 MB = 4.9x (if you must count the Rev's 16 MB slow DRAM)

you can bet that the polygon count difference will be greater than the RAM difference

 

[littlewig]

Are people still clinging to those RAM figures MAtt-IGN gave out months ago?

 

[PkunkFury]

I would think cramming a projector into that tiny case along with a decent CPU/GPU would cause the thing to burst into flames. :lol

well they say the thing will fit in PDAs and cell phones

From Light Blue Optic's website: "LBO's current demonstrator is matchbox-sized, and smaller units will be available in future"

I don't want to fan the flames anymore on this rumor though, the chances of some crazy new mini-projector technology coming with a 200 dollar console are slim to none. Projectors, well at least of the traditional variety, are quite expensive

 

[choplifter]

Are people still clinging to those RAM figures MAtt-IGN gave out months ago?

yes. for now. he was pretty accurate with Dolphin/Gamecube info a few months before the specs came out. i think he's probably pretty close.

I don't expect Revolution RAM to go above 128 MB. I expect a modest increase from what's been said, but nothing approaching even half of what X360/PS3 have.

that Revolution case is SMALL. maybe 2x the size of a DS. you are not going to have anything above 1 GHz single-core CPU, and a 300-350 Mhz 4 pipe GPU and 128 MB RAM

 

[citrus lump]

when the press had their hands on with the Rev hardware, exploring the case etc, one guy looked at the flap and one Nintendo rep said "thats the Revolution right there".

Knowing Nintendo, it'll be open enough to store the controller in there. What a Revolution! :lol

 

[littlewig]

yes. for now. he was pretty accurate with Dolphin/Gamecube info a few months before the specs came out. i think he's probably pretty close.

I don't expect Revolution RAM to go above 128 MB. I expect a modest increase from what's been said, but nothing approaching even half of what X360/PS3 have.

Anyone remember what Matt said the Gamecube specs would be?

Anyway, I know that Rev is going to be using 1T-SRAM, how does that compare to what Xbox360 and PS3 are using for their ram?

Also, what is Rev's "slow" RAM, is it similar to what PS3 and Xbox360 are using?

 

[PkunkFury]

Also Matt alluded to it being special just in the last week - wanting to know more about it etc, why if its just SD slots and USB ports? Maybe it is a projector holy cow!!!

It is kind of interesting the way they have the angle with the stand and everything.....

But no. It uses TVs dammit!

Haha, the angle with the stand is a nice observation, Projector FTW!

By the way where is the guy who posted that rumor getting the 3D movie stuff from? Light Blue Optics doesn't mention 3D on their website. I really don't think Nintendo is planning auto stereo either, but it'd be interesting if they did. Cheap auto-stereo glasses that work with CRTs have been around awhile. The quality isn't as good as the high end stuff but it gets the job done for fun games.

http://www.razor3donline.com/dvdul3dex.html

Even bad 3D would make people say WOW, despite being less powerful than XBox/PS3. Perhaps we were just taking Iwata's comment about the graphics the wrong way... And all of those quotes posted sure could add up to it. Getting the jump on a 3D display system before Hollywood starts making good 3D movies (Nintendo going into animation/Rev playing DVDs) could lean that way too.

I tend to think the last revolutionary feature will have soomething to do with online plans or a microphone, something simple, but I guess 3D isn't out of the running. Lots of problems with getting 4 pairs of glasses as well as 4 wands if you want to do multiplayer... but I suppose games could have a toggle between stereo and mono vision when you hit pause, so spectators wouldn't endure headaches

 

[citrus lump]

Lots of problems with getting 4 pairs of glasses as well as 4 wands if you want to do multiplayer... but I suppose games could have a toggle between stereo and mono vision when you hit pause, so spectators wouldn't endure headaches

They could always bundle the glasses and wands together. It'd probably still be cheaper than the 360 wireless controllers. :lol

I still think the whole 3D/ projector thing is more than a little far fetched.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

yes. for now. he was pretty accurate with Dolphin/Gamecube info a few months before the specs came out. i think he's probably pretty close.

I don't expect Revolution RAM to go above 128 MB. I expect a modest increase from what's been said, but nothing approaching even half of what X360/PS3 have.

that Revolution case is SMALL. maybe 2x the size of a DS. you are not going to have anything above 1 GHz single-core CPU, and a 300-350 Mhz 4 pipe GPU and 128 MB RAM

Did you read the update, developers did not have Revolution hardware. Not even protoypes of Reevolution hardware. The specs Matt posted were based on souped up GC kits, if you increase every thing 2x it would come out to being something above the original Xbox.

Devs wouldn't need 5 kits when they already have the tech necessary to produce what the Revolution is capable of.

 

[littlewig]

The last innovation is bound to be something with the graphics. Why else would they have held back screenshots for so long?

And no, it's not because they graphics are un-impressive, as we have seen with the DS, Nintendo could care less if people think they have crappy graphics.

They would only hold back screenshots if it had something to do with gameplay elements...

 

[Chrono]

Did you read the update, developers did not have Revolution hardware. Not even protoypes of Reevolution hardware. The specs Matt posted were based on souped up GC kits, if you increase every thing 2x it would come out to being something above the original Xbox.

...


*shakes head*


Nintendo TOLD DEVELOPERS that the memory won't be more than 128 (actually less) for the final hardware.

Even with unfinished devkits developers already know of an estimate for final hardware BECAUSE NINTENDO TOLD THEM. They have to otherwise devs wouldn't know what specs to aim for when working with unfinished hardware.

I really, really hope nintendo ups the memory. Right now, however, it looks like rev won't even have 128 MB.

 

[citrus lump]

The last innovation is bound to be something with the graphics. Why else would they have held back screenshots for so long?

And no, it's not because they graphics are un-impressive, as we have seen with the DS, Nintendo could care less if people think they have crappy graphics.

They would only hold back screenshots if it had something to do with gameplay elements...

Each game comes with a dress up kit, representing the main character of said game. Who needs 3d, when you can BE link,mario,princess peach etc. lol amirite

 

[littlewig]

No man, holograms.

If you control a sword in the game, your wand turns into a sword!
If you control a gun in the game, your wand turns into a gun!

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Anyone remember what Matt said the Gamecube specs would be?

Anyway, I know that Rev is going to be using 1T-SRAM, how does that compare to what Xbox360 and PS3 are using for their ram?

Also, what is Rev's "slow" RAM, is it similar to what PS3 and Xbox360 are using?

All we really know anout the memory is that its "highly optimised", suggesting that there is an increase in clock speed. I would guess something in the 1Ghz mark or slightly above that.

 

[citrus lump]

No man, holograms.

If you control a sword in the game, your wand turns into a sword!
If you control a gun in the game, your wand turns into a gun!

My wand turns into a gun, with the right amount of coaxing ;p

 

[choplifter]

All we really know anout the memory is that its "highly optimised", suggesting that there is an increase in clock speed. I would guess something in the 1Ghz mark or slightly above that.

eh, I was talking about the core clock of the CPU. I don't expect above 1 GHz. the memory being highly optimized has nothing to do with that.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

...


*shakes head*


Nintendo TOLD DEVELOPERS that the memory won't be more than 128 (actually less) for the final hardware.

Even with unfinished devkits developers already know of an estimate for final hardware BECAUSE NINTENDO TOLD THEM. They have to otherwise devs wouldn't know what specs to aim for when working with unfinished hardware.

I really, really hope nintendo ups the memory. Right now, however, it looks like rev won't even have 128 MB.

Revolution documentation or GC souped up dev kits documentation.

Compare the two articles.

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/673/673799p1.html = December

Comments in here are suggesting they had actual Revolution hardware, which is evident they didn't going by the latest news in the article below.

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/690/690730p1.html = Feburary

After reading those two articles listen to the podcast up on the Revolution-IGN site.

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/691/691399p1.html

Remember though, there's two more dev kits to be shipped to developers that are more representative of final hardware. I think most devs weren't expecting to recieve up to 5 dev kits.

 

[PkunkFury]

People it is obvious that the revolution is 2x the power of the gamecube so that it can render game cube graphics twice, once for each eye! 3D auto-stereo! It does not need to be any more powerful because we do not have any more eyes

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

eh, I was talking about the core clock of the CPU. I don't expect above 1 GHz. the memory being highly optimized has nothing to do with that.

That was a response to Littlewigs post, thats why I make no mention of CPU clockspeed. Memory should have lower latency than that of the GC 1T-SRAM, reports suggest Revolution will be receiving 1T-SRAM-Q(Quad).

 

[DrGAKMAN]

This is how I think the REVmote will work:

-DPD (infra-red + sensor bar triangulation) = pointing/aiming, note: works like a laser pointer so it doesn't matter if you change seats/possitions durring gameplay and aiming is determined by triangulating the 2 points in the sensor bar and the DPD on the REVmote so that less calibration (as Jim Merrick said) is required (probably just by moving the sensor bar so that it's centered in front of/by the screen)

-gyros (1 in front, 1 in back) = 3D spacial movement, note: communicates dirrectly with the system through BT so it can be detected even when the DPD isn't pointing towards the screen which is good for games that require more movement/less aiming

-pedometer = speed/intensity of movement

-sonar/RF = determines distance to/from screen, sensor bar or system (this may or may not be needed)

I can't believe you guys ignored this and are instead talking about graphics/power...oh wait...I forgot where I was...

 

[citrus lump]

But your posts are so long we tend to graze over them.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Based on what we "know" where would the Revolution's graphical capabilities be likely to fall on this line.

Best of Gamecube----------------------------------------------------best of XBox360.

And yes, I know that any answer I get will be subjective and speculative.

"Best of" seems superfluous there. If we could put such things on a line chart to begin with, I imagine it would be pretty much the same whether we're considering the best of, the average, or the shovelware.

The last innovation is bound to be something with the graphics. Why else would they have held back screenshots for so long?

And no, it's not because they graphics are un-impressive, as we have seen with the DS, Nintendo could care less if people think they have crappy graphics.

This has been brought up before. And as people more perceptive than I was pointed out: we only saw screens and footage of DS games when it was time for the press to actually play them. Thus, any negativity about the graphics could be swayed by seeing how the system's features as a whole came together to make unique games.

What advantage would releasing some sub-X360 screens have for them now, without the context of gameplay impressions to go along with it? And since they seem not to be doing that until E3, they wait.

 

[PkunkFury]

I can't believe you guys ignored this and are instead talking about graphics/power...oh wait...I forgot where I was...

This is what I've been saying awhile, except no Sonar/RF for tracking depth, I'm not quite sure that would work very well. The questions people have involving calibration won't be answered until E3 and until we see the sensor bars there is really not much left to guess about the controller except the home button. Of course there isn't much to talk about involving graphics without screen shots either... but lets see how long this thread gets

 

[BuddyC]

Ah, Revolution speculation. It's getting to be a problem again, too many threads, too much speculation, not enough facts, and so forth. Thus, it's time for another catchall Revolution Speculation thread.

But you guys are having some, well, civil conversation here. And I don't want to discourage that at all. I'd have stuck this thread, but at 12 pages, it's plenty intimidating. However, it'd be kinda silly to have two threads devoted to Revolution speculation, so, I'm gonna have to ask a favor. I won't lock this thread now, you guys deserve at least that much, but if you guys could keep that new thread in mind ...I'd appreciate it.

For reference, here's a link to the new thread: http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=87776

 

[PkunkFury]

Ah, Revolution speculation. It's getting to be a problem again, too many threads, too much speculation, not enough facts, and so forth. Thus, it's time for another catchall Revolution Speculation thread.

But you guys are having some, well, civil conversation here. And I don't want to discourage that at all. I'd have stuck this thread, but at 12 pages, it's plenty intimidating. However, it'd be kinda silly to have two threads devoted to Revolution speculation, so, I'm gonna have to ask a favor. I won't lock this thread now, you guys deserve at least that much, but if you guys could keep that new thread in mind ...I'd appreciate it.

For reference, here's a link to the new thread: http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=87776

haha thanx, that was very civil. You coulda just locked us out of here I'm sure we'll have no trouble moving everything to the other thread

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Ah, Revolution speculation. It's getting to be a problem again, too many threads, too much speculation, not enough facts, and so forth. Thus, it's time for another catchall Revolution Speculation thread.

But you guys are having some, well, civil conversation here. And I don't want to discourage that at all. I'd have stuck this thread, but at 12 pages, it's plenty intimidating. However, it'd be kinda silly to have two threads devoted to Revolution speculation, so, I'm gonna have to ask a favor. I won't lock this thread now, you guys deserve at least that much, but if you guys could keep that new thread in mind ...I'd appreciate it.

For reference, here's a link to the new thread: http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=87776

Good move, if there's any info released during GDC then the new thread would be the perfect place to discuss it.

 

[BuddyC]

haha thanx, that was very civil. You coulda just locked us out of here I'm sure we'll have no trouble moving everything to the other thread

Well, like I said, I definitely don't want to discourage civil conversation. If anyone deserves to be thanked, it's you guys: 12 pages, still going strong, not a lot of bans, not turning into a DS vs. PSP debate ...it's a nice change of pace.

 

[Gahiggidy]

I can't believe you guys ignored this and are instead talking about graphics/power...oh wait...I forgot where I was...

My theory...

 

[citrus lump]

I think there's only five or so of us keeping this alive, so I don't have any problems with it being locked. You know when the kids wake up early tomorrow, it'll end up getting locked anyways ;p

 

[DrGAKMAN]

This is what I've been saying awhile, except no Sonar/RF for tracking depth, I'm not quite sure that would work very well. The questions people have involving calibration won't be answered until E3 and until we see the sensor bars there is really not much left to guess about the controller except the home button. Of course there isn't much to talk about involving graphics without screen shots either... but lets see how long this thread gets

Yeah, the Sonar probably isn't neccessary really...just thought I'd throw that out there in theory in case the constroller somehow needs to see how far away it is from the system/sensor bars (which I don't think really matters). Depth could be tracked pretty much by the 2 gyros (or maybe 1 gyro + 1 tilt sensor) in relation to each other in angle in 3D space and communication to the sensor bar through some RF bounceback signal (basically like sonar, sorta).

The gyro(s) could also be used to handle force feedback if they spin enough...totally doable, especially if there's 2 of them...could even give like vertigo like force feedback.

Jim Merrick made it seem like calibration would be a breeze, so I'm not too worried. He also confirmed that even if you change seats or possitions (sitting up, laying down, etc) that the controller wouldn't have to be re-calibrated or anything.

I think there could be plenty to talk about the controller. There's the whole touch sensitivity (which I don't give much credence to, but is still possible), what kind of force feedback it uses, the home button (as you said) or other "secret" additions like a mic or something. There's also that blog pic of a devkit REVmote where the face is sorta blacked out...maybe 'cos there's an addition to the controller on the face that couldn't be shown yet?

A question I do have though is...if there's 5 evolutions to the devkits, does that mean that developers have to buy all 5 incrimentally...or is it that they buy 1 and as time goes on Nintendo sends them upgrades? Also...what could change so much that they'd need 5 seperate ones:
1)souped-up GCN
2)souped-up GCN w/REVmote
3)???
4)???
5)final

 

[GaimeGuy]

Yeah, the Sonar probably isn't neccessary really...just thought I'd throw that out there in theory in case the constroller somehow needs to see how far away it is from the system/sensor bars (which I don't think really matters). Depth could be tracked pretty much by the 2 gyros (or maybe 1 gyro + 1 tilt sensor) in relation to each other in angle in 3D space and communication to the sensor bar through some RF bounceback signal (basically like sonar, sorta).

The gyro(s) could also be used to handle force feedback if they spin enough...totally doable, especially if there's 2 of them...could even give like vertigo like force feedback.

Jim Merrick made it seem like calibration would be a breeze, so I'm not too worried. He also confirmed that even if you change seats or possitions (sitting up, laying down, etc) that the controller wouldn't have to be re-calibrated or anything.

I think there could be plenty to talk about the controller. There's the whole touch sensitivity (which I don't give much credence to, but is still possible), what kind of force feedback it uses, the home button (as you said) or other "secret" additions like a mic or something. There's also that blog pic of a devkit REVmote where the face is sorta blacked out...maybe 'cos there's an addition to the controller on the face that couldn't be shown yet?

A question I do have though is...if there's 5 evolutions to the devkits, does that mean that developers have to buy all 5 incrimentally...or is it that they buy 1 and as time goes on Nintendo sends them upgrades? Also...what could change so much that they'd need 5 seperate ones:
1)souped-up GCN
2)souped-up GCN w/REVmote
3)???
4)???
5)final

Who cares.

3 and 4 probably have more power than 1 and 2 and the other unrevealed secrets to the controller.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Yeah, the Sonar probably isn't neccessary really...just thought I'd throw that out there in theory in case the constroller somehow needs to see how far away it is from the system/sensor bars (which I don't think really matters). Depth could be tracked pretty much by the 2 gyros (or maybe 1 gyro + 1 tilt sensor) ....

Nah-ahhh.... no way.


Its implausible that any combo of gyros and tilt-sensors could accurately track positioning of an object for very long without getting way, way "off-track". It still operates in an analog world... where "accelerators" are going not going to be precise.

Think it through...

turn 7.2 degrees... left... tilted back 1.1 degree... downward.... move 9.4 cm forward... at a 13 degree angle.

And on and on and on... not even CELL can keep track of all those minute and varying measurements.

Its got to be the sensor bar that determines positioning and distance from the tv set. The tilt-sensors are probably used only for the virtual mouse stuff.

By the way... is it even confirmed that the RevMote has acceleration sensors?

 

[PkunkFury]

By the way... is it even confirmed that the RevMote has acceleration sensors?

No confirmation

acceleration sensors aren't necessary for this sort of tech, but they are generally cheap and can help the computer figure out what the tracker is doing if the tracking node gets occluded or the data gets lost some other way. Basically it'd be a good idea if they were in, but they might not be and don't need to be

And you're right, Sonar, gyros and RF are very likely not involved with position tracking in any way

 

[schism]

A question I do have though is...if there's 5 evolutions to the devkits, does that mean that developers have to buy all 5 incrimentally...or is it that they buy 1 and as time goes on Nintendo sends them upgrades? Also...what could change so much that they'd need 5 seperate ones:
1)souped-up GCN
2)souped-up GCN w/REVmote
3)???
4)???
5)final

I remember reading somewhere (IGN possibly) that one of the revisions was simply a change from a wired revmote (plugged into the gc ports I think) to the wireless version.

 

[Gahiggidy]

I'll press my luck and try another quetion...


Any confirmation that the sensor-bar is "powered?" Perhaps all it is is a "point A" and "point B" that the RevMote looks for.

I remember reading somewhere (IGN possibly) that one of the revisions was simply a change from a wired revmote (plugged into the gc ports I think) to the wireless version.

Ah! That may answer my question right there. If they were using standard GCN kits with RevMotes... what are the odds that they also built in a connection to a sensor bar? (with mo/bo interface to boot?) Not very likely, I'd reckon.

 

[Oblivion]

Here's something worth noting. Look at what they say from IGN:

Developers we spoke to confirm that - at least so far - three revisions of the development kits have been sent out to studios. The first development kit was, quite literally, a GameCube console with a wired Revolution controller attached.

Now, for dev. kit 3.5:

Insiders allege that some big-name publishers have recently received a more complete Revolution development kit - we call it revision three and a half -- complete with internal hardware more reflective of the 'new generation' system and a wireless Revolution controller.

Now, considering that the first one had the Rev. controller, this internal hardware that's more reflective of "new generation" HAS to be related to the graphics. So it doesn't seem that bad.


...right? Guys?

 

[citrus lump]

The fact that Nintendo is using "new" instead of "next" generation is very telling IMO. They're already starting stealth damage control as far as graphics go I'd wager.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Ok, I'm going to damage control this...

The fact that Nintendo is using "new" instead of "next" generation is very telling IMO. They're already starting stealth damage control as far as graphics go I'd wager.

actually, I think that use of the "new" terminology is being used as a way to differentiate the Revolution gameplay as something entirely "new" and not just a upgrade of what we had before. They want to connotate a break from previous generations... while Sony/Microsoft are only offering a continuation.

 

[PkunkFury]

I'll press my luck and try another quetion...


Any confirmation that the sensor-bar is "powered?" Perhaps all it is is a "point A" and "point B" that the RevMote looks for.

I remember you asking this back when the controller was announced and we were discussing tracking as well. It's a great theory and I guess it could be the case. I'd really like to see the sensor bar, more than I would like to see the screen shots even

 

[Oblivion]

Ok, I'm going to damage control this...actually, I think that use of the "new" terminology is being used as a way to differentiate the Revolution gameplay as something entirely "new" and not just a upgrade of what we had before. They want to connotate a break from previous generations... while Sony/Microsoft are only offering a continuation.

Bu that's what I'm trying to say. They already had the Rev. controller on the first dev. kit, so they HAVE to be referring to the graphics in that later comment.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Perhaps the sensor bar is a specially attuned set of magnets that create a type planer-field for the RevMote to track against.

 

[Link]

The fact that Nintendo is using "new" instead of "next" generation is very telling IMO. They're already starting stealth damage control as far as graphics go I'd wager.

Isn't that from IGN, not Nintendo?

 

[citrus lump]

Isn't that from IGN, not Nintendo?

Nintendos been throwing that around lately.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Hey guys...the discussion should really be moved to the stickied thread so that people aren't going back'n'forth between 2 topics.

Anyways...what does "mo/bo" mean?

Someone in another topic pointed out to me that the sensor bar will most likely won't be wired to the system since it could wirelessly track possition through RFID.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Nintendos been throwing that around lately.

Yeah, I think the first time I heard it was from Reggie, in the article where he talks about MS/Sony consoles just vehicles for their other businesses.

 

[Link]

Man, I'm so out of the loop.

 

[citrus lump]

Better catch up, you only have a little over 2 months before the big unveiling.

 

[PkunkFury]

Perhaps the sensor bar is a specially attuned set of magnets that create a type planer-field for the RevMote to track against.

magnetic trackers can be influenced by household devices so it might be tough for a consumer product. I also think they are expensive and have a smaller tracking volume than optical, but I've never actually used one so I'm not too sure. They do have the benefit of not requireing line of sight, and one small sensor can track multiple nodes

Edit: and yeah we should go to the other topic