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Revolution Specuation Thread Mark II (UNCONFIRMED RUMORS AND EVERYTHING ELSE GO HERE)

Dev kit costs:

DS: $2,500
PS2: 18,000
PSP: 7,000
Xbox: 20,000

:0

No Blu-Ray drives in PS3 kits. Drives will be available in summer, drive will cost extra.
 
AdmiralViscen said:
Wasn't someone saying in another thread that Revo devkits were only 2 grand? Can that be accurate, if DS is $2500?
Click to expand...
if that's true, developing for Revolution is very very cheap then.
 
AdmiralViscen said:
Wasn't someone saying in another thread that Revo devkits were only 2 grand? Can that be accurate, if DS is $2500?
Click to expand...

If that's true they must be eating some of the cost, it probably isn't that expensive anyway.
 
What "golf game" for luanch???
 
I'd expect even more shovelware with the dev kits being so cheap. Ideally, a dev would come up with a couple of pick up and play games with some substance to pay for more expensive games on the Revolution and other systems.

More than likely though it'll be shit like Elf Bowing :(
 
How exactly did Elf Bowling get past Nintendo's qaulity check?

I'm sure there are plenty of independent developers makign games for the DS that would loved to be released in stead of Elf Bowling...
 
Nintendo isn't as strict as they used to be. I remember when The Nintendo seal Of Quality meant something................more or less.
 
citrus lump said:
Nintendo isn't as strict as they used to be. I remember when The Nintendo seal Of Quality meant something................more or less.
Click to expand...

My NES copy of Where's Waldo disagrees. Aimed at a similar auidence and they're both complete shit.
 
Not only does the PS2 development kit cost a lot, it's fucking enormous.

psp_dev_kit.jpg
 
I want to say that I enjoyed those IGNRev podcasts. Its good to hear news, rumors, and speculation all in one spot. Have they only done two so far? First I've heard of them.
 
XDK = $10k
Xbox Test Kit = $3k
Xbox 360 uses same price scale

Tool = $20k

I have no idea how much the fridge, I mean PS3 cost.
 
citrus lump said:
Yay! We get another sticky. I bet the mods can't wait for E3, so [most of] the speculation will end. :)
Click to expand...
Honestly, if it's anything like past E3s, someone will just say something vague and we'll have another year of arguing before it's clarified.
 
For those who were wondering if IR(infra-red) tracking for the revmote was confirmed, the IGN gear guy compares Game Trak to Rev, and then says "no optical tracking, no gyros" meaning he seems to think it uses IR as well. BTW optical tracking by defenition requires line of sight to the sensors (remote should have to face the sensors, be unoccluded). IR is a common form of cheap yet reliable optical tracking.
 
Ok since this is a speculation thread I'd like to post this Iwata quote...


Iwata on rev said:
Our competitors have detailed the power of their core processor and display. But the advantages of our technology will also have no bearing on gameplay. I know, this is one of those mysterious comments.
Click to expand...



So, uh, any idea what the hell he's talking about it? Guesses, speculation? :D


I think that was at E3 2005 but I'm not sure, someone else confirm.
 
PkunkFury said:
This is what I've been saying awhile, except no Sonar/RF for tracking depth, I'm not quite sure that would work very well. The questions people have involving calibration won't be answered until E3 and until we see the sensor bars there is really not much left to guess about the controller except the home button. Of course there isn't much to talk about involving graphics without screen shots either... but lets see how long this thread gets
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Sonar probably isn't neccessary really...just thought I'd throw that out there in theory in case the constroller somehow needs to see how far away it is from the system/sensor bars (which I don't think really matters). Depth could be tracked pretty much by the 2 gyros (or maybe 1 gyro + 1 tilt sensor) in relation to each other in angle in 3D space and communication to the sensor bar through some RF bounceback signal (basically like sonar, sorta).

The gyro(s) could also be used to handle force feedback if they spin enough...totally doable, especially if there's 2 of them...could even give like vertigo like force feedback.

Jim Merrick made it seem like calibration would be a breeze, so I'm not too worried. He also confirmed that even if you change seats or possitions (sitting up, laying down, etc) that the controller wouldn't have to be re-calibrated or anything.

I think there could be plenty to talk about the controller. There's the whole touch sensitivity (which I don't give much credence to, but is still possible), what kind of force feedback it uses, the home button (as you said) or other "secret" additions like a mic or something. There's also that blog pic of a devkit REVmote where the face is sorta blacked out...maybe 'cos there's an addition to the controller on the face that couldn't be shown yet?

A question I do have though is...if there's 5 evolutions to the devkits, does that mean that developers have to buy all 5 incrimentally...or is it that they buy 1 and as time goes on Nintendo sends them upgrades? Also...what could change so much that they'd need 5 seperate ones:
1)souped-up GCN
2)souped-up GCN w/REVmote
3)???
4)???
5)final
 
Chrono said:
Ok since this is a speculation thread I'd like to post this Iwata quote...






So, uh, any idea what the hell he's talking about it? Guesses, speculation? :D


I think that was at E3 2005 but I'm not sure, someone else confirm.
Click to expand...

Yeah I remember this, but I'm trying to remember in what context it was being said.

Anyways...sorta goes along with a Miyamoto quote soon after that said something about how the interface (controller) could be easily copied, but something like the GPU could not be copied. To me...that just seemed odd, it was like as if Miyamoto (and in your quote, Iwata) were expressly saying there was some kind of advantage/difference in the internals/GPU of the system aside from the new interface. IGN said the GPU was a mystery and not done. YET, the system is "just" a GCN Turbo and therefore should pretty much be done?
 
Chrono said:
Ok since this is a speculation thread I'd like to post this Iwata quote...



"Our competitors have detailed the power of their core processor and display. But the advantages of our technology will also have no bearing on gameplay. I know, this is one of those mysterious comments."


So, uh, any idea what the hell he's talking about it? Guesses, speculation? :D


I think that was at E3 2005 but I'm not sure, someone else confirm.
Click to expand...

And 3D auto-stereo fits this puzzler as well !!!

I still don't think they'll do it... they can't, it's asking two much of the players to wear those glasses all of the time. But it's cheap and would be easy to implement in a game, and it would give them a jump on distribution of the 3D Hollywood movies coming out in the next few years.

http://www.razor3donline.com/dvdul3dex.html

It fits the quote because a 3D stereo revolution would have no bearing on gameplay. I know people want to reach out and touch objects with the remote, but you need to know how the user is perceiving the images to make that work well enough for a game. You could strap a head tracker to the top of the glasses (that uses revmote optical tracking bars) but you still have lots of other issues with stereo such as people s eyes being different widths, people getting sick, or some people who just can't fuse stereo images.

But 3D graphics would make us say WOW, 2x GC flat graphics wouldn't...
 
Chrono said:
Ok since this is a speculation thread I'd like to post this Iwata quote...






So, uh, any idea what the hell he's talking about it? Guesses, speculation? :D


I think that was at E3 2005 but I'm not sure, someone else confirm.
Click to expand...

Only thing I can think of is frame rate.
 
DrGAKMAN said:
Jim Merrick made it seem like calibration would be a breeze, so I'm not too worried. He also confirmed that even if you change seats or possitions (sitting up, laying down, etc) that the controller wouldn't have to be re-calibrated or anything.
Click to expand...

Yeah, with any optical tracking device, once you have it calibrated you can move the tracker anywhere within the sensor field without worrying about losing calibration. Even if you occlude the tracker, the sensors will find it again wherever it re-appears. I think the confusion is coming from whether or not you will have to initially calibrate the system. I still say it at least needs some initial calibration, even just a home position if everything is relative to a graphical cue on the screen. I'd love to be proven wrong though
 
PkunkFury said:
And 3D auto-stereo fits this puzzler as well !!!

I still don't think they'll do it... they can't, it's asking two much of the players to wear those glasses all of the time. But it's cheap and would be easy to implement in a game, and it would give them a jump on distribution of the 3D Hollywood movies coming out in the next few years.

http://www.razor3donline.com/dvdul3dex.html

It fits the quote because a 3D stereo revolution would have no bearing on gameplay. I know people want to reach out and touch objects with the remote, but you need to know how the user is perceiving the images to make that work well enough for a game. You could strap a head tracker to the top of the glasses (that uses revmote optical tracking bars) but you still have lots of other issues with stereo such as people s eyes being different widths, people getting sick, or some people who just can't fuse stereo images.

But 3D graphics would make us say WOW, 2x GC flat graphics wouldn't...
Click to expand...

Wouldn't 3d with glasses be the same as Sly Coopers' 3D trick? I've yet to play it, but I really don't see what a 3D image can do as far as evolving gaming.
 
PkunkFury said:
And 3D auto-stereo fits this puzzler as well !!!

I still don't think they'll do it... they can't, it's asking two much of the players to wear those glasses all of the time. But it's cheap and would be easy to implement in a game, and it would give them a jump on distribution of the 3D Hollywood movies coming out in the next few years.

http://www.razor3donline.com/dvdul3dex.html

It fits the quote because a 3D stereo revolution would have no bearing on gameplay. I know people want to reach out and touch objects with the remote, but you need to know how the user is perceiving the images to make that work well enough for a game. You could strap a head tracker to the top of the glasses (that uses revmote optical tracking bars) but you still have lots of other issues with stereo such as people s eyes being different widths, people getting sick, or some people who just can't fuse stereo images.

But 3D graphics would make us say WOW, 2x GC flat graphics wouldn't...
Click to expand...

Hrmmm...I think 3D is totally doable too and fits with the whole last mystery/no screenshots/you will say WOW/oddball quotes stuff, but I don't think it'll be a main focus of the system. It'll be like an extra "cool" thing to add to the already existing "cool" new interface...it won't be a focus, but it'll do alot in showing Nintendo trying to differentiate itself from the competition.

Look at Star Fox...the first one showed off Nintendo playing around with 3D polygons...not all games from then on used the Super FX chip...but it was there and it was cool for the time. Same thing with Star Fox 64 as it's new cool technology was the rumble pack. The Star Fox games on GCN though...introduced no new technology...and I think that's part of the reason they lost their flair. Jump ahead to Revolution Star Fox...the REVmote will already be established for the system by then...but imagine Star Fox with 3D glasses...I mean...damn! Perfect fit I think. It's not to say that all games would forever need 3D glasses, but some games would just be a no-brainer fit with the technology.

Now look at the Metroid Prime 3 footage. Better than GCN, nice overall, but think 3D when you watch it. See how deep and far going the draw distance is? See how the swirling Phazon in the background sorta plays with your depth perception? Notice how when the ship shoots missiles it's shooting them towards the screen and then flies at the screen...as if it was going to fly out at you?

I keep having this feeling that Nintendo is gonna send out E3 pre-show inventations with 3D glasses packed in. *cough*Kodack Theater*cough*

Nowhere am I saying that this will be the defining pivotal end-all Revolution of the system, hell they may not even do it, but I think it would be a nice side actraction for some games here'n'there.
 
citrus lump said:
Wouldn't 3d with glasses be the same as Sly Coopers' 3D trick? I've yet to play it, but I really don't see what a 3D image can do as far as evolving gaming.
Click to expand...

I didn't actually play Sly Cooper, I'm assuming it used anaglyphic red-blue glasses. Nintendo could ship the unit with some of these cheap glasses, but they could also use other methods that give a better stereo effect.

Auto-stereo glasses (like the ones in the link I posted) use LCD panels for the lenses which alternately block closed each eye in sync with the image display, creating a much more immersive 3D effect (at least on a good projection system). It is passable on CRT tubes, but works very well with monitors and projections (rev has monitor output, some projection rumors exist). It doesn't work with a lot of newer displays (the fill rate on those displays is too erratic), but of course Nintendo is not supporting HD, and people with plasmas could always play without stereo since it doesn’t really effect the game.

They may have some better ways than the glasses link I posted that work as well.

I’m arguing in favor of this rumor because I’d like to see it happen, but I still don’t think it will

DrGAKMAN said:
Hrmmm...I think 3D is totally doable too and fits with the whole last mystery/no screenshots/you will say WOW/oddball quotes stuff, but I don't think it'll be a main focus of the system. It'll be like an extra "cool" thing to add to the already existing "cool" new interface...it won't be a focus, but it'll do alot in showing Nintendo trying to differentiate itself from the competition.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you'd almost have to let people turn it off/play without it in any game. Some people can't fuse stereo in their brains, or only have one eye. Others get real sick. Some have displays that won't work, and at a party the people who don't have glasses on will be stuck viewing a nauseating blur of images

DrGAKMAN said:
Nowhere am I saying that this will be the defining pivotal end-all Revolution of the system, hell they may not even do it, but I think it would be a nice side actraction for some games here'n'there.
Click to expand...

If you're expecting more revolution than revmote with stereo glasses, you've placed a tall order for Nintendo to fill
 
citrus lump said:
Wouldn't 3d with glasses be the same as Sly Coopers' 3D trick? I've yet to play it, but I really don't see what a 3D image can do as far as evolving gaming.
Click to expand...

You bring up a valid point...however, the 3D glasses he's suggesting aren't the old blue/red style cardboard deals. They're basically shudder glasses that take a video signal and flip the shudders open & closed over your eyes so fast it sorta causes a jump out like delay which tricks the eyes into thinking that something is coming at them in 3D. Problem being with the shudder glasses he's suggesting is that they only work with CRT TV's (no HDTV, LCD or projection TV's work with these glasses).

There's other tech beyond the olden blue/red type that do and will work with projector technology (as that's what they'll be using in the theaters for the forseeable future) Big Hollywood dirrectors exploring 3D are looking beyond those olden 3D glasses and probably something different than the LCD shutter type as well. I think though, that the newer 3D push is going to be in how stuff is filmed with special camera's or rendered by computers. In a game system, this is where an optimized GPU could come in handy.

Olden 3D glasses and even LCD shudder glasses could just as easily be done by X360/PS3 so it wouldn't be a big deal if that's what Revolution can do. If Nintendo does 3D, I imagine it'll be in the same vein as what Lucas, Cameron, Speilberg & Rodriguez are aiming for.
 
I really don't know what to expect from Nintendo anymore. The more I think about it, the more I believe they are copying the DS strategy,as far as the graphics go.

I'm sure the controller will still have some neat unknown functions, but nothing as shocking as seeing it for the first time.

Can't wait for E3 though. I doubt we'll get any launch details(date/price/lineup) but we'll finally get screens and hands on impressions.
 
DrGAKMAN said:
Olden 3D glasses and even LCD shudder glasses could just as easily be done by X360/PS3 so it wouldn't be a big deal if that's what Revolution can do. If Nintendo does 3D, I imagine it'll be in the same vein as what Lucas, Cameron, Speilberg & Rodriguez are aiming for.
Click to expand...

Yeah some of these newer glasses are getting close to the shutter glasses in performance. Nintendo might get their hands on something like this, it's up in the air at this point

Edit: Of course they could be doing the whole hologram thing, it's the new craze:
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=683
 
citrus lump said:
I really don't know what to expect from Nintendo anymore. The more I think about it, the more I believe they are copying the DS strategy,as far as the graphics go.

....
Click to expand...
Its not like they deliberately underpowered the DS... they had a cost/price target for the unit, which had to make room for a second LCD, touch-screen, and WiFi. Not to mention portability and power constraints. PSP is the handheld with "unconventional" graphics... with a batter-sucking combo of LCD/CPU/UMD drive that is priced for the high-end market.

DS graphics are a fairly substantial boost from GBA, comming out 3+ years after the GBA luanch.


Revolution doesn't have the power and portabilty contraints as a handheld... its comming a full 5 years after the GCN. Haven't seen evidence that the RevMote will cost that much more than a WaveBird.... so if its going to come out around the same price as GCN (best bet)... why wouldn't it see a 5 year improvement in GPU tech?
 
Ok, here's just some random stuff to chew on...

You guys have been talking about some infra red for Revmote and stuff, but Jim Merrick mentioned Bluetooth (before he quit his job), although not directly saying it's for the controller (but what else could it be). I'm not a tech guy or anything, but I think infra red and Bluetooth are slightly different.
Jim Merrick interview with Meristation

Also...
Trudy Muller of Electronic Arts Canada talks with GameIT about the Nintendo Revolution etc.

"I'm sure that Nintendo already has a number of phenomenal design concepts built around 3D Pointing or Touch Sensitivity for their 1st party games. Our developers are inspired and excited by the new controller's features."

Not sure what she's talking about here.
 
BuddyC said:
Honestly, if it's anything like past E3s, someone will just say something vague and we'll have another year of arguing before it's clarified.
Click to expand...

"DOES THE FACT THAT NINTENDO HAD KID ICARUS DECALS AVAILABLE FOR SALE AT E3 MEAN THAT THEY'RE MAKING A KID ICARUS LAUNCH GAME FOR REV!?"
 
An early, insanely rough video was shown at E3 (a longer version was shown privately, I think), there should still be links on the forum if you do a search.
 
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