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[CSmath22]

TLJ is fine. Its an okay movie that did some interesting thing with a formulaic and boring franchise that had gone stale a long time ago.

If it wasn't part of a trilogy, I'd say you might have a point. But when it completely shits on everything setup in the previous movie, and leaves nowhere for any subsequent movie to go...

 

[Dural]

If it wasn't part of a trilogy, I'd say you might have a point. But when it completely shits on everything setup in the previous movie, and leaves nowhere for any subsequent movie to go...

Yep, I don't know what they're going to do in Rise of Skywalker. Pretend TLJ didn't happen?!

 

[#Phonepunk#]

TLJ was pretty formulaic:

- reproduce the hermit Jedi teacher doesn't want to train young Jedi relationship
- reproduce the Force Place Has The Dark Side sequence
- reproduce the Leia hologram sequence
- reproduce the "shady character who we just met betrays our heroes" sequence
- reproduce the Young Jedi wants to turn the bad guy sequence, use the exact dialog even
- reproduce the Young Jedi and bad guy are set up by the big bad guy to kill one another, they kill the big bad guy instead sequence
- reproduce the bad guy taunts the Young Jedi with "together we will rule" sequence
- reproduce the Old Jedi fighting on the other side of a door so all our heroes can get away sequence
- reproduce dying Jedi inspires the lead of the new trilogy sequence
- reproduce the twin suns sequence

you could say TLJ was the same old formula, just the wrong proportions. like "what if we added egg whites to our cake after we baked it? wouldn't that blow minds?"

 

[The Snake]

Yep, I don't know what they're going to do in Rise of Skywalker. Pretend TLJ didn't happen?!

I think Kylo Ren rebuilding his helmet is the clearest indication that they don't give a good goddamn what Rian tried to do in the last movie.

Shame we had to waste a trilogy slot just to be back where we were.

 

[Doom85]

Shame we had to waste a trilogy slot just to be back where we were.

Funny enough I feel the previous trilogy had a totally unnecessary movie in 1. Think about it, what was relevant in 1?

-Qui-Gon was total filler, he's pretty much barely mentioned afterwards and they could have simply began with Obi-Wan teaching Anakin from the start
-developing Anakin's relationship with his mother. Ah, so maybe her death causes him to fall to the dark side. Well, not really, I guess it helps but it's just kinda brushed aside soon after (and apparently Padme quickly forgets he admits to murdering children, geezus) and it's actually Padme's terminal illness that leads to his fall so again, another element from 1 is pointless. In fact, 2's "dark side" moment undermines the turn in 3, Anakin murdering kids would have been more shocking if I didn't know he already did so in the previous film!
-as cool as Maul is, he's killed off and quickly replaced by Sidious' new apprentice, Dooku. Again, another filler material
-Padme's work as Queen on Naboo is irrelevant as she becomes a Senator in 2 and 3, so more filler
-the Trade Federation aren't really complex villains so nothing about them in 1 couldn't be quickly established in 2. Also, we wouldn't have the initial antagonistic force being wiped out by a 9 year old, geezus even stormtroopers are laughing at how lame that is
-Jar Jar Binks is even more filler than Qui-Gon or Maul combined
-the podracing segment, again like Maul is cool, but basically the whole plot was slowed down for a "characters have to win a competitive event for the prize" plot. I'm sorry, are we in Star WARS, or a teen sports movie?

There's a reason why I hear most fan edits of the PT that condense into 2 hours usually only spend about 5 minutes on Episode 1. The vast majority ends up having barely any impact on the following films, and the relevant stuff (the existence of the prophecy, the Jedi believing the Sith have returned, what the Trade Federation is) could have been quickly established in 2's story without needing an entire 2 1/2 hour movie wasted on it.

 

[The Snake]

Funny enough I feel the previous trilogy had a totally unnecessary movie in 1. Think about it, what was relevant in 1?

-Qui-Gon was total filler, he's pretty much barely mentioned afterwards and they could have simply began with Obi-Wan teaching Anakin from the start
-developing Anakin's relationship with his mother. Ah, so maybe her death causes him to fall to the dark side. Well, not really, I guess it helps but it's just kinda brushed aside soon after (and apparently Padme quickly forgets he admits to murdering children, geezus) and it's actually Padme's terminal illness that leads to his fall so again, another element from 1 is pointless. In fact, 2's "dark side" moment undermines the turn in 3, Anakin murdering kids would have been more shocking if I didn't know he already did so in the previous film!
-as cool as Maul is, he's killed off and quickly replaced by Sidious' new apprentice, Dooku. Again, another filler material
-Padme's work as Queen on Naboo is irrelevant as she becomes a Senator in 2 and 3, so more filler
-the Trade Federation aren't really complex villains so nothing about them in 1 couldn't be quickly established in 2. Also, we wouldn't have the initial antagonistic force being wiped out by a 9 year old, geezus even stormtroopers are laughing at how lame that is
-Jar Jar Binks is even more filler than Qui-Gon or Maul combined
-the podracing segment, again like Maul is cool, but basically the whole plot was slowed down for a "characters have to win a competitive event for the prize" plot. I'm sorry, are we in Star WARS, or a teen sports movie?

There's a reason why I hear most fan edits of the PT that condense into 2 hours usually only spend about 5 minutes on Episode 1. The vast majority ends up having barely any impact on the following films, and the relevant stuff (the existence of the prophecy, the Jedi believing the Sith have returned, what the Trade Federation is) could have been quickly established in 2's story without needing an entire 2 1/2 hour movie wasted on it.

I totally agree, and most fan edits that combine the prequel films skip TPM in its entirety or only show the finale. That movie is so worthless.

Unfortunately it's the only one made with love and care in its special effects/design etc., despite being a shitty movie

 

[#Phonepunk#]

nah, yall are crazy. the prequels were great.

one man's "filler" is another man's fun. im not watching movies because i am invested in the Rebels winning, i am watching cos i want to see a good story. i could care less about balancing the force or whatever dumb prophecy they come up with. give me a good story. this is why TLJ fails. it is wholly focused on the meta. i don't care what is "relevant" to fans of a saga. the individual films are really the only thing that matters.

 

[Doom85]

But the prequel trilogy is meant to showcase the fall into darkness for Anakin (which Episode 1 barely touches on, other than Yoda claiming he senses much fear in him which might be more believable if we didn't just see him participating in a freaking death race like 10 minutes ago) and add to the tragedy by developing the bond of Anakin with Obi-Wan and Padme (again, Episode 1 rather chooses to waste time on developing Obi-Wan's bond with Qui-Gon, and Padme has this awkward age difference with Anakin so when they re-unite in 2 it doesn't even really feel like they knew each other because Anakin is so vastly different. Another why Anakin should have started in his mid-teens at the youngest instead of 9).

The story of 1 isn't stand-alone (if it were, well guess we'll never know who the Sith master Yoda and Windu were pondering about is!), it connects to the prequel trilogy as a whole. But it does so so poorly and wastes so much time that no, I don't think it's a good story and it affects the quality of 2 and 3 by doing so as it failed to properly establish and develop the characters that really mattered. Obi-Wan thankfully managed to pull through it in 2 primarily due to Ewan McGregor's performance, but Anakin and Padme were already awkwardly written in 2 that the fact that 1 so poorly developed their bond and the timeskip of TEN YEARS didn't help at all.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

1 is fine. podracing is a cool thing, something hinted at in ANH, and comes from Lucas's roots doing American Graffiti and racing cars in the desert. the three way Jedi fight was also amazing. personally i love all the Queen Amidala stuff as well. i like the idea of introducing Anakin as a kid who has his own adventure before getting pulled into the greater machinations. after all this is really the point of the series, it was about adventures, dropping into a serial. fans take the lore too seriously. Lucas chose excitement over story and I think he was right to do that, newcomers have a way in and it sets a less portentous tone, which never fit the series anyways. kids really identified with Anakin. it was also important to the story, to show that he wasn't always an evil guy, he was a little kid, just like anyone else. we all knew it was going dark, why not start it light?

i don't know, i think it was a good introduction to a lot of major players, having Obi Wan as a guy with his own master instead of some lone badass shows the working hierarchy. Palpatine as a secret manipulating politician was canon as early as ANH. Amidala introduced as a steely teenage space queen. Liam as kind of a renegade Jedi mentor. the Jedi as arrogant, sometimes silly, definitely flawed, characters was something long in the works. it upset a lot of fans but that's kind of the meaning of the PT. the Jedi (who initially worked for the Empire) got corrupt, the Empire happened. they aren't the perfect guys fans think, they never were.

Lucas had imagined the prequels a long time ago, and always said they would be different in tone and style from the OT. it is obsessive fans who demanded it be this ultra serious tragedy depiction of Vader. i guess you could say he "subverted expectations" by not doing what was expected. thing is, at least he introduced a whole ton of stuff, new characters, new worlds. can't really be said of the ST.