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[DemurOnion]

Nadal has hit 4 aces all tournament. FOUR!

I played a doubles match yesterday and hit more than that, lol

It's the damn reason he cannot be considered the greatest even though I don't even barely ever get into that bull.

Nadal is roids, we all know it. Prolly Joker too. I'm glad Tennis evened out but they still have a gigantic problem and it's so damn obvious to anyone who does a little research on out of tournie testing and even in tournie testing.

Sorry, Nadal has a lot of heart, and he is a formidable player, but his shot selection and serve can never be thought of as even top 5. Hell, his serve isn't even top 20 FFS.

I'll admit I do get bored when I don't see any aces and the people are just thwacking the damn ball back and forth. I guess some people like that. I always loved the precision of Sampras, and the shot selection of guys like Borg. Now Nadal does in fact have pretty good shot selection these days, but I still am VERY iffy on some of those grand slams from a couple years ago.

 

[Faith]

Serve is not everything. John Isner, Raonic etc., ever won a GS or even a Masters tournament? Nope. There are players outside the Top50 that serve better than Djokovic and he still managed to get 6 GS titles and 19 Masters titles.

It's not about serve & volley anymore. It's about making 20 perfect forehand shots in a row from the baseline. It's about trying to get crazy angels. That's the game Nadal & Djokovic are playing and that's the reason why nobody can beat them.

 

[robertsan21]

When it comes to serve, its far from everything if you cant play the game.

now, having a strong serve like Federer and can play a hell of a game? That will be a hard to beat player.

 

[Deku Tree]

It's the damn reason he cannot be considered the greatest even though I don't even barely ever get into that bull.

Nadal is roids, we all know it. Prolly Joker too. I'm glad Tennis evened out but they still have a gigantic problem and it's so damn obvious to anyone who does a little research on out of tournie testing and even in tournie testing.

Sorry, Nadal has a lot of heart, and he is a formidable player, but his shot selection and serve can never be thought of as even top 5. Hell, his serve isn't even top 20 FFS.

I'll admit I do get bored when I don't see any aces and the people are just thwacking the damn ball back and forth. I guess some people like that. I always loved the precision of Sampras, and the shot selection of guys like Borg. Now Nadal does in fact have pretty good shot selection these days, but I still am VERY iffy on some of those grand slams from a couple years ago.

Got any links to back that up?

 

[Faith]

now, having a strong serve like Federer and can play a hell of a game? That will be a hard to beat player.

That's true. I think it's the main reason why Djokovic doesn't have already 10+ GS titles. You have to be a complete player.

Btw: Nadal hit only 4 aces because he slowed down his service 30-40kmh. He has some problems with his back. That's the reason.

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

Nowadays? Sure... the return game has gotten MUCH better over the years... but just look back to the days of Pete Sampras, where he pretty much dominated everyone with mainly his serve (and a good volley here and there granted).

 

[DemurOnion]

Serve is not everything. John Isner, Raonic etc., ever won a GS or even a Masters tournament? Nope. There are players outside the Top50 that serve better than Djokovic and he still managed to get 6 GS titles and 19 Masters titles.

It's not about serve & volley anymore. It's about making 20 perfect forehand shots in a row from the baseline. It's about trying to get crazy angels. That's the game Nadal & Djokovic are playing and that's the reason why nobody can beat them.

There are a lot of drugs involved in this sport. I refuse to believe no one can be beat until the sport is clean. Joker was nothing until he miraculously became twice the player he is now. Nadal was always pumped up on something.

Serving is still a part of why people are defined as some of the greatest. And Joker's serve is very very good these days. Just because everyone is roided up and using crazy rackets these days does not make serving not a part of the game. Nadal will ALWAYS be looked at with slanted eyes and so will Joker. Too many tennis fans just bury their head in the sand, just like the NFL, NBA, etc.

It's only them damn cyclists doing drugs I tell ya!

If you take away the top ten roiders in this game serving would make a comeback no doubt. Of course it MAY not because of how they do courts these days. IDK it's all preference. I like fast games on hard courts too though, and I'm sad we get to see so very few.

 

[DemurOnion]

Nowadays? Sure... the return game has gotten MUCH better over the years... but just look back to the days of Pete Sampras, where he pretty much dominated everyone with mainly his serve (and a good volley here and there granted).

This is disingenuous and I see this argument from a lot of people who clearly have never really watched his game.

He was a very good all around player, The french in this time was hard to win for people like Sampras because of his style. Outside of that he had MUCH more than just a serve to win. You don't win games just on serve alone, we have Roddick to look to for that.

Sampras was a master of intuition when it came to shot selection AFTER the serve as well. Now I'm not at all saying serve is most important thing ever but the way it has been cast aside for steroid pumpers makes the game look silly at times for me. I enjoy watching Nadal, Joker, etc. But I will be honest in that the game is getting boring for me.

 

[Faith]

There are a lot of drugs involved in this sport. I refuse to believe no one can be beat until the sport is clean. Joker was nothing until he miraculously became twice the player he is now. Nadal was always pumped up on something.

And do you know why? Because of his long unknown gluten allergy. He had so many problems till 2010 with his power. He felt extremely weak after a set in many matches. When it came out that gluten was killing him, he changed his whole feeding plan. His stamina rised, he became better at everything and we saw the 2011 season happening.

From june 2012 till september 2013 he played some worse tennis but I think now he is back. He will win the FO and Cincinnati this year and complete his trophy cabinet.

 

[DemurOnion]

And do you know why? Because of his long unknown gluten allergy. He had so many problems till 2010 with his power. He felt extremely weak after a set in many matches. When it came out that gluten was killing him, he changed his whole feeding plan. His stamina rised, he became better at everything and we saw the 2011 season happening.

Oh the gluten thing lol. HAHHAHAHA. Okay. Thought you were talking about Sampras relative to the French for a second.

Gluten doesn't suddenly make you win championships lol. Sure, it can be a problem, but if you are honestly believing that crap I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

This is disingenuous and I see this argument from a lot of people who clearly have never really watched his game.

He was a very good all around player, The french in this time was hard to win for people like Sampras because of his style. Outside of that he had MUCH more than just a serve to win. You don't win games just on serve alone, we have Roddick to look to for that.

Sampras was a master of intuition when it came to shot selection AFTER the serve as well. Now I'm not at all saying serve is most important thing ever but the way it has been cast aside for steroid pumpers makes the game look silly at times for me. I enjoy watching Nadal, Joker, etc. But I will be honest in that the game is getting boring for me.

While what you say is true of course, watch a LOT of Sampras matches where he will never even NEED to bring all that to win his games... When his 1st serve lands, there really isn't much more he needed to bring against most of his opponents as far as his service games were concerned... granted when he played other top players, the rest of his game needed to stand up as well

 

[DemurOnion]

While what you say is true of course, watch a LOT of Sampras matches where he will never even NEED to bring all that to win his games... When his 1st serve lands, there really isn't much more he needed to bring against most of his opponents as far as his service games were concerned... granted when he played other top players, the rest of his game needed to stand up as well

Yeah, and I can agree those games COULD get boring. But there were so many different types of players that I thought it didn't get boring all that much. Sampras in his last Open was really fun to watch. It's just my opinion that anyone who can do multiple rallies of 50! shots a piece is not someone that to me is not doping.

DO I BLAME Joker? Hell no. He had no choice really. If he didn't dope Rafa would already be passed Fed. And who knows about Fed. He is one guy I cannot pin down. Possible he doped but I like to thnk not.

 

[Faith]

Oh the gluten thing lol. HAHHAHAHA. Okay. Thought you were talking about Sampras relative to the French for a second.

Gluten doesn't suddenly make you win championships lol. Sure, it can be a problem, but if you are honestly believing that crap I have a bridge to sell you.

How do you explain what happened after 2010?

There is no doping in tennis like in other sports. 95% of the game is happening in your head.

 

[Deku Tree]

And do you know why? Because of his long unknown gluten allergy. He had so many problems till 2010 with his power. He felt extremely weak after a set in many matches. When it came out that gluten was killing him, he changed his whole feeding plan. His stamina rised, he became better at everything and we saw the 2011 season happening.

From june 2012 till september 2013 he played some worse tennis but I think now he is back. He will win the FO and Cincinnati this year and complete his trophy cabinet.

Possible but unlikely IMO.

 

[DemurOnion]

How do you explain what happened after 2010?

Look, I don't know the whole story about Joker. He has definitely kept far more hidden than Mr. BIG GUNs Nadal. But his form was always to lose and never have enough stamina before. Gluten allergy DOES NOT ENABLE you to suddenly win 5 GS's and play tennis like you never run out of energy. The time Joker ripped off his shirt to show us all that chemistry was just a little weird for me personally. Those were back to back 5 setters where it seemed they could have done another. NOT NORMAL.

At any rate people have covered all there is to know at the blog 'tennis has a steroid problem'. It's an open site with nothing to hide but facts and conjecture on those facts.

 

[Confrontation]

I thought Nadal not being able to get points on the cheap with aces or a big serve in general would actually help him in conversations about who's greater...

 

[Faith]

Look, I don't know the whole story about Joker. He has definitely kept far more hidden than Mr. BIG GUNs Nadal. But his form was always to lose and never have enough stamina before. Gluten allergy DOES NOT ENABLE you to suddenly win 5 GS's and play tennis like you never run out of energy. The time Joker ripped off his shirt to show us all that chemistry was just a little weird for me personally.

At any rate people have covered all there is to know at the blog 'tennis has a steroid problem'. It's an open site with nothing to hide but facts and conjecture on those facts.

You misunderstood me dude. It was not the gluten allergy that made this possible, it was the gluten allergy that prevented him doing that before 2011.

You have no idea what food allergies can do to your body. It was a handicap for Djokovic before he knew about it. That's my point.

 

[DemurOnion]

I thought Nadal not being able to get points on the cheap with aces or a big serve in general would actually help him in conversations about who's greater...

Well it would, if he wasn't so obviously taking drugs half the time.

All I have to say is where is Barry Bonds in the greatest ever debate now?

You misunderstood me dude. It was not the gluten allergy that made this possible, it was the gluten allergy that prevented him doing that before 2011.

You have no idea what food allergies can do to your body. It was a handicap for Djokovic before he knew about it. That's my point.

I understood you just fine and am willing to bet I've done more research on this than you will ever care to do. I'm very aware of what gluten allergies do. I'm also not so naive as to believe people when they lie to cover up their PEDs.

I can't even tell you how many times I used to tell people Lance was doping. I was banned from certain forums for bringing it up back in the day. People called me all sorts of names. Now..... crickets.

Plus I will always like Joker more than Nadal. I don't think he dopes to the extent Nadal does and he may even be natural for most of the time between slams who knows.... I just know Joker has better tennis skills than Nadal imo.

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

Nadal does hit plenty of aces... He calls them forehands.

 

[scarlet]

So Mauresmo is Murray's new coach

 

[Diamond]

There are a lot of drugs involved in this sport. I refuse to believe no one can be beat until the sport is clean. Joker was nothing until he miraculously became twice the player he is now. Nadal was always pumped up on something.

Serving is still a part of why people are defined as some of the greatest. And Joker's serve is very very good these days. Just because everyone is roided up and using crazy rackets these days does not make serving not a part of the game. Nadal will ALWAYS be looked at with slanted eyes and so will Joker. Too many tennis fans just bury their head in the sand, just like the NFL, NBA, etc.

It's only them damn cyclists doing drugs I tell ya!

If you take away the top ten roiders in this game serving would make a comeback no doubt. Of course it MAY not because of how they do courts these days. IDK it's all preference. I like fast games on hard courts too though, and I'm sad we get to see so very few.

I don't deny there's probably drugs involved in tennis, I just don't like throwing accusations randomly. It's easy to say that Nadal or Djokovic are on drugs, I just don't accept to doubt someone just because he's better than the rest. If you do that, you begin to doubt every single performance of any sport. I want proof. You can make all the posts you want saying it's clear as crystal, it won't change the fact that there are no evidence thus far.

Also, I'll had that there are drugs for everything : Sampras or Federer could very well have enhanced their games to have more reactivity, power, etc. Drugs don't enhance stamina only, you can improve virtually everything with the right molecules.

 

[Faith]

I'm not willing to discuss with a person who thinks that humans can't achieve greatness without drugs.

Australian Open 2012 finals, one of the biggest accomplishment in sports in modern age.

 

[DemurOnion]

I don't deny there's probably drugs involved in tennis, I just don't like throwing accusations randomly. It's easy to say that Nadal or Djokovic are on drugs, I just don't accept to doubt someone just because he's better than the rest. If you do that, you begin to doubt every single performance of any sport. I want proof. You can make all the posts you want saying it's clear as crystal, it won't change the fact that there are no evidence thus far.

Also, I'll had that there are drugs for everything : Sampras or Federer could very well have enhanced their games to have more reactivity, power, etc. Drugs don't enhance stamina only, you can improve virtually everything with the right molecules.

All the info that is available on this taboo subject was put together by a blogger on his site: you can find all available information about tennis doping here: http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com/

This dude alone, and anyone helping him, has literally moved the doping talk forward for Tennis more than it has in the last 20 years.

Why you ask? Why a blog like this? Because the organization in tennis are ULTRA secretive about their testing regimes and have always been. It's only when certain people start asking questions that anything ever gets done in this sport. VERY few people are willing to ask questions in tennis, just like MLB, just like basically most of our sports today with terrible testing. Tennis, however, is one of the worst for Out of competition testing. You can also fail a drug test in tennis and they can keep it secret from the public. Fact.

 

[Faith]

You can also fail a drug test in tennis and they can keep it secret from the public. Fact.

Yeah sure dude. That's why Troicki got banned for 12 months. He didn't even did the drug test.

Please stop this bullshit now.

 

[DemurOnion]

Yeah sure dude. That's why Troicki got banned for 12 months. He didn't even did the drug test.

Please stop this bullshit now.

I think you need to read up on Tennis rules and regulations before you stupidly start calling what I say bullshit. If you wanna be a fanboy go ahead. I have no time for such puerile pursuits. Have a nice day.

Educate yourself with the information available to you or continue with head in sand. Either or take care.

 

[Faith]

So the question is, who is using the better drugs to win today? Djokovic or Nadal? What happened with the drugs from Djokovic from 2011? Did they stop producing this stuff?

 

[Certinty]

Yeah sure dude. That's why Troicki got banned for 12 months. He didn't even did the drug test.

Please stop this bullshit now.

Not really, by banning guys like Troicki and Cilic it just sends a message to the rest of the field, especially the very top players.

DemurOnion is right though, the ATP isn't obliged to publicly call out those who fail drug tests etc.

Not saying that the top players don't dope, but I would be very surprised if all of them didn't. After all as if the ATP are going to call out the very best, just looks bad on tennis in almost every way.

 

[Diamond]

All the info that is available on this taboo subject was put together by a blogger on his site: you can find all available information about tennis doping here: http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com/

This dude alone, and anyone helping him, has literally moved the doping talk forward for Tennis more than it has in the last 20 years.

Why you ask? Why a blog like this? Because the organization in tennis are ULTRA secretive about their testing regimes and have always been. It's only when certain people start asking questions that anything ever gets done in this sport.

I know this blog very well and read it frequently. It's interesting but there are very little solid evidence in it. It's useful because there is truth in saying that doping control could be better in tennis (even top players want more serious controls), there's a lot of information, but nothing allowing anyone to point fingers at players who weren't caught yet.

People need to realize that when you accuse a guy of doping, you essentially make him a criminal. It's not something trivial, it's accusing several people (the champion and his team) of cheating, essentially stealing millions of dollars in prize money they wouldn't have won otherwise, lying constantly to everybody outside of their circle. You need serious proof to do this.

 

[cackhyena]

Can someone tell me when this starts, central time?

 

[DemurOnion]

I know this blog very well and read it frequently. It's interesting but there are very little solid evidence in it. It's useful because there is truth in saying that doping control could be better in tennis (even top players want more serious controls), there's a lot of information, but nothing allowing anyone to point fingers at players who weren't caught yet.

People need to realize that when you accuse a guy of doping, you essentially make him a criminal. It's not something trivial, it's accusing several people (the champion and his team) of cheating, essentially stealing millions of dollars in prize money they wouldn't have won otherwise, lying constantly to everybody outside of their circle. You need serious proof to do this.

A criminal? I would argue that doping is so prevalent that most people simply don't care. It's only criminal when you get the media to cause a frenzy. Otherwise most people get off without much concern. A penalty here or there.

That blog provides a LOT of evidence against Nadal, whether factual or anecdotal. Not so much against Joker. I've said as much that I don't think Joker is as prevalent here as Nadal, only that after exhausting all his options to beat him he very well decided that it was not in anyone's best interest to let Nadal win everything.

I mean, it's not like I hate any of these people. I just want to see Tennis cleaned up.

So aside let's just have some fun: 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% chance Nadal is a doper. 85% chance of Joker having doped before. Those are my percentages from my bum, or rather, it's how confident I feel in making those assertions based on all evidence available, connections to past doping, and on court performances dating back to their youth.

 

[Faith]

Can someone tell me when this starts, central time?

In 40 minutes.

 

[cackhyena]

In 40 minutes.

Hey, thanks.

 

[Faith]

@DemurOnion
You still didn't answer my question. What happened with the 2011-Djokovic drug? Why isn't he using it anymore?

 

[SIRF]

@DemurOnion
You still didn't answer my question. What happened with the 2011-Djokovic drug? Why isn't he using it anymore?

The secret cameras that blog had placed in Novak's home and training facilities was discovered and Novak decided to stop taking it just to be safe. This is 99.9999999% true and is proven by factual and anecdotal evidence!

 

[jelly]

I think the Olympics is an interesting perspective on drugs within Tennis.

Some players weren't exactly the beasts they usually were, Djokovic especially. Maybe because drug testing is very tight in the Olympics. Can't be sure of course.

 

[Faith]

The secret cameras that blog had placed in Novak's home and training facilities was discovered and Novak decided to stop taking it just to be safe. This is 99.9999999% true and is proven by factual and anecdotal evidence!

Thanks for the clarification.

So much LOL.

 

[Diamond]

A criminal? I would argue that doping is so prevalent that most people simply don't care. It's only criminal when you get the media to cause a frenzy. Otherwise most people get off without much concern. A penalty here or there.

That blog provides a LOT of evidence against Nadal, whether factual or anecdotal. Not so much against Joker. I've said as much that I don't think Joker is as prevalent here as Nadal, only that after exhausting all his options to beat him he very well decided that it was not in anyone's best interest to let Nadal win everything.

I mean, it's not like I hate any of these people. I just want to see Tennis cleaned up.

A criminal's still a criminal, doesn't matter if nobody but you is noticing. It's a heavy accusation.

If the author of THASP has so much evidence against Nadal, why can't he present them to well known publications and/or authorities ? Maybe it won't work but I'd argue it'd help raise awareness. And as long as these evidences keep being about Nadal supposedly missing a doping test here or there or magically accelerating his serve at US Open, it certainly won't work.

I understand what you want to achieve, I also would like to have a clean sport, but saying it's blatant when it's not (and it's clearly the problem : it's not blatant and we don't know !!!) is counter-productive. At least in my opinion.

 

[scarlet]

Guys.....

 

[88random]

Well, the match starsts in a few minutes... I think Djokovic will take it this time.

 

[DemurOnion]

Well, the match starsts in a few minutes... I think Djokovic will take it this time.

It would be nice for Joker to win this one I agree.

 

[PS3GamerKyle]

Guys let's stop this bickering, and let's enjoy some tennis, shall we?

I don't say this often, but go Nole!

One less slam from Rafa's total count is always good news for me!

 

[scarlet]

Rafa should win a slam for his butt. That thing is glorious.

 

[Sax Russel]

Come on Djokovic, no one wants to see Nadal win again =P

 

[Deku Tree]

Get ready !!!

 

[MIMIC]

Here we go!

 

[Kensuke]

Is Djokovic's real name Söderling? No? Then he can't beat Nadal.

Kidding aside, I hope the final isn't a one-sided affair.

 

[MIMIC]

Strong hold by Novak to open the match

 

[DemurOnion]

If joker can keep that forehand rocking he has a good chance. I hope it doesn't fall apart. Nadal will clearly have problems with it if it stays so Fed-like the entire time.

 

[John Dunbar]

djokovic is overrated as a returner. he'd good, of course, but he's rubbish against big servers and first serves in general.

 

[Kensuke]

How bad was Nadal's serve again? Looks like one of the best returners of the game couldn't handle it.