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[ZephyrFate]

I don't think the message was specific to Africa, as there were certainly Native American influences as well (and a mix of African/African-American and Native American actors). It was more a blend of several different cultures meant to emphasize the universal aspects human behavior.

True, I guess I can see it that way, too.

White people suck.

 

[Defcon]

I’m leaning towards it not winning best picture at the Oscars, but why exactly are people saying this doesn’t have a chance at surpassing Titanic? WHY?

Titanic was a box-office freak, and guess what? AVATAR is too! Unless something goes horribly wrong why is it hard to believe that it might top Titanic?

Titanic benefited from repeated business from casual moviegoers. Outside the hardcore sci fi fan base, I don't see that happening for Avatar over the course of 4 months. There was also little competition during it's run. Titanic was the number one film for 15 weeks straight and never made over $30 million during those weekends.

Until ticket prices average $20 a pop, I don't see ANY film topping Titanic.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Also, anecdotal evidence, but I saw it today with my 70-something grandfather. This movie is getting word of mouth, people.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Also, anecdotal evidence, but I saw it today with my 70-something grandfather. This movie is getting word of mouth, people.

I wish my grandfather was still around to see it. He would have loved this movie.

Big fan of pulp and sci-fi and sci-fi pulp.

 

[Rentahamster]

In the end, then, it makes sense that he would just go on a rampage and try to kill Jake; he is a military man, making fighting and killing the thing that he knows best

And this doesn't make Quartich a stereotype, how again?

People also have a hard time picking up on the warmth and compassion of his opening scenes. Lang gives Quaritch a range of emotions, but he is very subtle.

A little too subtle, perhaps. I get the sense that Lang gives Quartich some character despite how Quartich is written in Avatar's final form. I don't think the pep speech at the beginning is enough to truly flesh him out. I could be missing something, though. Gotta see this movie again.

The point is -- nature is awesome, human greed sucks, and we need to stop fucking over Africa.

A fine moral, indeed. I think, however, that the lack of nuance and absolutist, heavy-handed delivery of that point weakens the message a bit. After all, we wouldn't be posting on the internet if not for this concept of "human greed".

 

[Rentahamster]

True, I guess I can see it that way, too.

White people suck.

I hope you're being sarcastic.

 

[Karma Kramer]

True, I guess I can see it that way, too.

White people suck.

I don't see it as white people suck... but people in power, people who want power over others suck.

 

[Mad Hatter]

True, I guess I can see it that way, too.

White people suck.

No, humans suck.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

And this doesn't make Quartich a stereotype, how again?


A little too subtle, perhaps. I get the sense that Lang gives Quartich some character despite how Quartich is written in Avatar's final form. I don't think the pep speech at the beginning is enough to truly flesh him out. I could be missing something, though. Gotta see this movie again.


A fine moral, indeed. I think, however, that the lack of nuance and absolutist, heavy-handed delivery of that point weakens the message a bit. After all, we wouldn't be posting on the internet if not for this concept of "human greed".

I more meant that in Quarritch's mind, violence would be an acceptable form of retribution for what Jake did. His whole reason for being on Pandora was to keep people alive, and Jake was responsible for hundreds of his men dying. I wasn't arguing that Quarritch isn't a common type of character in these types of movies; what I was saying is that when you take everything in its totality, there is some depth to him, and his motivations are believable.

 

[Medalion]

I’m leaning towards it not winning best picture at the Oscars, but why exactly are people saying this doesn’t have a chance at surpassing Titanic? WHY?

Titanic was a box-office freak, and guess what? AVATAR is too! Unless something goes horribly wrong why is it hard to believe that it might top Titanic?

It doesn't have Leo. Titanic was the ultimate chick flick with a big pop singer singing its main theme. Avatar does not have that... it's still a movie made for guys and geeks that love huge CGI extravaganzas.

Titanic was #1 for months and months as was its soundtrack.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Titanic benefited from repeated business from casual moviegoers. Outside the hardcore sci fi fan base, I don't see that happening for Avatar over the course of 4 months. There was also little competition during it's run. Titanic was the number one film for 15 weeks straight and never made over $30 million during those weekends.

Until ticket prices average $20 a pop, I don't see ANY film topping Titanic.

It's probably because I run numbers for a living and stare at spreadsheets all day (just wrapped up year end close thank god), but I keep looking at this purely from a mathematical perspective. Just dumping the earnings into Excel and running different scenarios. If Avatar has a normal drop off from here on out, it still gets close.

So at the risk of sounding like a broken record, when you make arguments based on breadth of appeal, how long Titanic was at number one, etc, you are arguing on the wrong set of data. Look at how much Avatar has made, and how fast it's made it.

$624m in 10 days. That's over a third of Titanic's take in about 5% of the time. I'd be dismissive of this were it front-loaded, ala TDK. But it's not front loaded: Avatar made almost exactly the same amount of money this weekend as it did last weekend.

It's hard to overstate how massive a take that is for a movie that is not yet showing signs of dropping off significantly. If the movie drops say 10% next weekend WW, it's at a billion dollars already - after 17 days. And it only dropped about 3% WW this weekend.

So, um, do the math. The movie has a very real shot of challenging Titanic because of how much its making (and how much of it is overseas), how little its dropping off, and how little competition there is for the next two months.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I hope you're being sarcastic.

I'm being slightly facetious and just extracting what the film was trying to say... by making all the evil people white men.

I know that it's humanity. I'm not stupid.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I more meant that in Quarritch's mind, violence would be an acceptable form of retribution for what Jake did. His whole reason for being on Pandora was to keep people alive, and Jake was responsible for hundreds of his men dying. I wasn't arguing that Quarritch isn't a common type of character in these types of movies; what I was saying is that when you take everything in its totality, there is some depth to him, and his motivations are believable.

This is true, but I don't think it comes across very well in the film. Too subtle, while other aspects aren't subtle. I really think a longer cut of this movie would have done it wonders. I can't wait for the collectors edition... is it possible to hope for an Unrated version?

 

[Giolon]

The giant blue cat people aspect bothered me during the first hour or so, especially when Grace's avatar appeared with a goddamn Stanford tanktop on.

As an alum, I have to say I cheered internally during that scene.

What really bothered me on my 3rd viewing was how un-Na'vi-like Grace's avatar was. It didn't even have the pink-ish color on the end of her nose like Jake and the natural Na'vi.

 

[NumberTwo]

Just saw it, pretty good special FX. Not the best overall, but I have never seen the range of emotion that these CGI characters gave.

Overall verdict: Good, but forgettable.

 

[Rentahamster]

I'm being slightly facetious and just extracting what the film was trying to say... by making all the evil people white men.

That was part of the heavy-handedness I rolled my eyes at. Such a broad and stereotypical portrayal too easily gives conservative reviewers ammo to disregard this as "hippie propaganda" when it's not the case. The "evil white man lol" boogeyman is getting rather tiring.

That brings up another point - why are there so many white people in the future? Humans of European descent are supposed to be a minority in the USA by 2042.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7559996.stm

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

I’m leaning towards it not winning best picture at the Oscars, but why exactly are people saying this doesn’t have a chance at surpassing Titanic? WHY?

Titanic was a box-office freak, and guess what? AVATAR is too! Unless something goes horribly wrong why is it hard to believe that it might top Titanic?

Titanic benefited from repeated business from casual moviegoers. Outside the hardcore sci fi fan base, I don't see that happening for Avatar over the course of 4 months. There was also little competition during its run. Titanic was the number one film for 15 weeks straight and never made over $30 million during those weekends.

Until ticket prices average $20 a pop, I don't see ANY film topping Titanic.

I think you're underestimating the appeal of AVATAR.....this is not a movie that only appeals to the sci-fi nerds, the amount of money it’s already made proves that. So you know who this movie appeals to? Absolutely everyone from all over the globe! It really does have everything going for it at the moment. It was released during the holidays, it has practically no competition, it has strong word of mouth (this is the must see movie at the moment - the buzz is spreading and it’s deliciously contagious), it looks to have very strong legs (repeat viewings) and plus it costs more money to see it in 3D. Hmm sounds a lot like Titanic if you ask me....I suppose time will tell....

 

[GhaleonEB]

There were only two villains (Quaritch and Selfridge), but the troops were very mixed race. I don't see any requirement to make at least one of only two villains be non-white to make the point about the universality of human behavior. Part of the point of the movie is overcoming our biases toward other races (or species), so it's kind of ironic reading posters saying the movie limited itself by having two white villains.

 

[polyh3dron]

Pandora looks like a chill place to live. I want to live there.

EDIT: Where the fuck do people get off throwing an extra 'e' in "Jujubes"? The fucking 'e' is silent god dammit! This one friend of mine always calls them "Jujubees" too and it drives me up the fucking wall!

 

[chubigans]

Just saw it, pretty good special FX. Not the best overall, but I have never seen the range of emotion that these CGI characters gave.

Just curious...what movie has the best FX overall exactly?

 

[Rentahamster]

it's kind of ironic reading posters saying the movie limited itself by having two white villains.

Not just the villains.

But whatever, that last point about the white people was more a future theory nitpicking point than a critique on the story.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

your eyes, they will eat them

 

[polyh3dron]

Just curious...what movie has the best FX overall exactly?

The Mummy Returns, duh.

 

[gdt]

Avatar more or less has #2 ever locked up, so logically it at least has a decent shot at #1. I'm not saying it will beat Titanic, but to dismiss it so quickly is a bit of a misnomer.



And I really have a gut feeling it'll win Best Picture.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Just saw it, pretty good special FX. Not the best overall, but I have never seen the range of emotion that these CGI characters gave.

Overall verdict: Good, but forgettable.

Out of curiosity, what in the world would have better FX than Avatar?

 

[pieatorium]

EDIT: Where the fuck do people get off throwing an extra 'e' in "Jujubes"? The fucking 'e' is silent god dammit! This one friend of mine always calls them "Jujubees" too and it drives me up the fucking wall!

Maybe because there is a fucking BEE on the box

 

[polyh3dron]

Maybe because there is a fucking BEE on the box

...but are they called Jujubees?

No.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Avatar more or less has #2 ever locked up, so logically it at least has a decent shot at #1. I'm not saying it will beat Titanic, but to dismiss it so quickly is a bit of a misnomer.



And I really have a gut feeling it'll win Best Picture.

I'm with ya man. I'm not saying that it will beat Titanic too, all I'm saying is that it has a chance.....a pretty solid chance at this point. And yes, AVATAR might take best picture.....

 

[DarkKyo]

Maybe because there is a fucking BEE on the box

:lol :lol :lol

 

[tino]

Avatar more or less has #2 ever locked up, so logically it at least has a decent shot at #1. I'm not saying it will beat Titanic, but to dismiss it so quickly is a bit of a misnomer.



And I really have a gut feeling it'll win Best Picture.

Since Titanic was backed by the same Studio and by the same director, there is going to be much less motivation to reach #1. Cameron is also much less likely to win Oscar just because he has already won once.

I think even reaching #2 is pretty incredible odd.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Avatar more or less has #2 ever locked up, so logically it at least has a decent shot at #1. I'm not saying it will beat Titanic, but to dismiss it so quickly is a bit of a misnomer.



And I really have a gut feeling it'll win Best Picture.

Misnomer is a bit of a misnomer.

 

[gdt]

Since Titanic was backed by the same Studio and by the same director, there is going to be much less motivation to reach #1. Cameron is also much less likely to win Oscar just because he has already won once.

I think even reaching #2 is pretty incredible odd.

I have no idea what you're trying to say with the underlined.

Bolded is certainly possible.

Normal... Avatar will easily break a billion, and it's not much from there to #2.

 

[gdt]

Misnomer is a bit of a misnomer.

You are correct :lol .

 

[tino]

I have no idea what you're trying to say with the underlined.

Bolded is certainly possible.

Normal... Avatar will easily break a billion, and it's not much from there to #2.

If you are world record holder, you don't need to break the record again, you just need to win the gold medal. Unless there is extra incentive to break the record again.

 

[Mifune]

I love the Avatar soundtrack. The tribal sounds and the voices suit the picture perfectly. Every time I see the film, the soundtrack only gets better. I don't really understand what the complaints about it are.

Yeah, I thought this was one of Horner's best scores actually. He has gotten better since he stopped scoring five movies a year. In fact, I'd say he has done some of his best stuff in the last five years, between Avatar and The New World and Apocalypto.

Just because it ain't memorable doesn't mean it's bad. I found it to provide some rousing accompaniment to the action, although maybe the last third was a bit over-scored.

Anyway, the movie itself was okay. But as a living breathing three dimensional experience, holy fucking shit. I want to see more.

 

[Sharp]

If you are world record holder, you don't need to break the record again, you just need to win the gold medal. Unless there is extra incentive to break the record again.

And what does Cameron's motivation have to do with it at this point, exactly? He's already made the movie, it's up to the studio to push it. And I guarantee you that Fox will be milking every possible dollar out of Avatar if it looks like it has even a remote chance of toppling Titanic.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I think you're underestimating the appeal of AVATAR.....this is not a movie that only appeals to the sci-fi nerds, the amount of money it’s already made proves that. So you know who this movie appeals to? Absolutely everyone from all over the globe! It really does have everything going for it at the moment. It was released during the holidays, it has practically no competition, it has strong word of mouth (this is the must see movie at the moment - the buzz is spreading and it’s deliciously contagious), it looks to have very strong legs (repeat viewings) and plus it costs more money to see it in 3D. Hmm sounds a lot like Titanic if you ask me....I suppose time will tell....

In a world where the mainstream audience lines up to see Michael Bay Transformers movies, how can anyone think Avatar will not make all the money ever printed in the universe evar?

Avatar may have its science (even the crazy stuff, look it up) down far, far better than Transformers - which hey, is a live action cartoon - but it's no more appealing to the mainstream because it's sci-fi than Transformers did. Geeks and movie buffs may sniff at the standard plot elements and declare Avatar is unremarkable, but what Cameron did with the film is what had to be done: use a familiar plot, play it by the numbers, but sell it with the finest execution 450 million dollars can buy. Then wrap it up with a bow made out of authentic emotional resonance - nobody can argue that you don't care about the characters and Cameron doesn't jerk the tears.

This is a recipe for a movie that people from any walk of life will line up to see, and even if the geeks dismiss it in favor of their favorite classic film, most people will probably see it as a modern classic.

 

[Jon]

I saw it earlier tonight with a few of my friends. One fell asleep, the other nit-picked it to death, but myself and my other friend absolutely loved it. I didn't see one trailer for the movie, so I didn't know what to expect. I figured it would be over-hyped, and end up being a mediocre movie. However, I was pleasantly surprised! I mean, it's not something for best picture, but it was very entertaining. It had its flaws, like the "Haze-esque" marines, but everything else I can think of was really enjoyable.

8.5/10

 

[yanhero]

If you are world record holder, you don't need to break the record again, you just need to win the gold medal. Unless there is extra incentive to break the record again.

Except this is not a medal, its money.

 

[msdstc]

I’m leaning towards it not winning best picture at the Oscars, but why exactly are people saying this doesn’t have a chance at surpassing Titanic? WHY?

Titanic was a box-office freak, and guess what? AVATAR is too! Unless something goes horribly wrong why is it hard to believe that it might top Titanic?

Won't happen. Might have a shot at the dark knight though.

 

[gdt]

If you are world record holder, you don't need to break the record again, you just need to win the gold medal. Unless there is extra incentive to break the record again.

You have to be joking.

 

[gdt]

Won't happen. Might have a shot at the dark knight though.

It'll blow past TDK.

 

[Zozobra]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but did anyone else find it odd that Sigourney's avatar was the only one with a human-shaped nose?

 

[gdt]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but did anyone else find it odd that Sigourney's avatar was the only one with a human-shaped nose?

I figured she has an earlier model. She "wrote the book" etc etc etc.

 

[Mifune]

I saw it at three in the afternoon today in South Florida. Show was nearly sold out.

I would not bet against this movie making as much as Titanic.

 

[Sinatar]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but did anyone else find it odd that Sigourney's avatar was the only one with a human-shaped nose?

That must have been what seemed off. Every time I saw her avatar something seemed weird about it, but I couldn't place what it was.

 

[LogicStep]

Just watched it a second time! Would watch a third time!

 

[neoism]

I’m leaning towards it not winning best picture at the Oscars, but why exactly are people saying this doesn’t have a chance at surpassing Titanic? WHY?

Titanic was a box-office freak, and guess what? AVATAR is too! Unless something goes horribly wrong why is it hard to believe that it might top Titanic?

Will know next week, if it makes 65+, it's a freak. I want it too, but I still don't think it has a chance. I'd be happy enough if it makes number 2.


:lol Damn I still my go see it again, in 2D, in a few weeks! I loove this movie!:lol

 

[neoism]

He didn't cheapen the Na'Vi by making them African, because that was the point; hell, the language they use is like four or five African languages smooshed together, isn't it? The point is -- nature is awesome, human greed sucks, and we need to stop fucking over Africa.

damn I thought Cameron made a new language...

 

[ryutaro's mama]

If you are world record holder, you don't need to break the record again, you just need to win the gold medal. Unless there is extra incentive to break the record again.

Haha....so just before he breaks Titanic's record, Cameron would tell them to pull AVATAR out of theaters because he already has the record?

This analogy makes no sense.

In world record breaking, the athlete controls his fate.

In the box office record breaking, the public does.