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Rottenwatch: AVATAR (82%)
- Thread starter SCULLIBUNDO
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Not really. After all, they did make some kind of reference to the people back home frowning upon mass slaughter of natives. However, their non-action is tacit approval for the corporation's techniques.polyh3dron said:
I did notice, thanks for reminding me.polyh3dron said:
No kidding. I know that. Corporation driven by greed and managed by idiots. How very convenient and one dimensional.polyh3dron said:
Also - "unobtainium"? Reeeaaaally? I'm having flashbacks of Star Trek: Insurrection.
I hope you're not attributing this overreaction to my thoughts, because that's not what I posted. I said nothing of a plothole. The macguffin is a little predictable, and the premise is a little unlikely. But in the grand scheme of movie making, it's fine.polyh3dron said:
Did you miss the first sentence of my post where I said this flick was awesome?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Combine said:
Oh shit, that's fucking awesome. I may or may not like this move better based on this extra material.Dead said:
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yes, I know what unobtainium is, thank you very much.ymmv said:
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
So I know a few in here are predicting thisll gross over 1 billion worldwide...anyone else starting to think that?
TheHeretic
Banned
It was good but hardly great. Considering how long James Cameron has been sitting on the script he could have done with better characters than evil golf putting corporate guy and bench pressing hard ass warmongering marine as the antagonists.
Its very, very derivative of Dances with Wolves, as was The Last Samurai. Pretty much the same story, same Tyrannical Imperialist armies versus the do no wrong peace loving natives. There's no moral conflict or ambiguity, which makes the films message seem pretty patronizing and ultimately condescending.
Its a typical Hollywood attempt to glorify nature, put down the white man for his past crimes, but so little thought or care is given to the story it becomes so obvious as to become obnoxious. The humans are extreme, but its the Navi (who plug into nature, as the American Indians and Aboriginals "we're in touch with mother earth") taken to the absolute limit of believability, which would be fine for a fantasy story, but the fact that its not even trying to cover up the allegory makes the Navi seem like they were designed with an agenda.
The other way I see it is as the epitome of technology versus the epitome of evolution. As the humans technology allows them to do so much, nature itself has found a way to offer the same to its inhabitants, defend itself and ultimately become a thinking entity of its own.
But to be honest I don't give Cameron that much credit. Technically impressive, visually amazing, but a mediocre story with something of a ham fisted message.
Its very, very derivative of Dances with Wolves, as was The Last Samurai. Pretty much the same story, same Tyrannical Imperialist armies versus the do no wrong peace loving natives. There's no moral conflict or ambiguity, which makes the films message seem pretty patronizing and ultimately condescending.
Its a typical Hollywood attempt to glorify nature, put down the white man for his past crimes, but so little thought or care is given to the story it becomes so obvious as to become obnoxious. The humans are extreme, but its the Navi (who plug into nature, as the American Indians and Aboriginals "we're in touch with mother earth") taken to the absolute limit of believability, which would be fine for a fantasy story, but the fact that its not even trying to cover up the allegory makes the Navi seem like they were designed with an agenda.
The other way I see it is as the epitome of technology versus the epitome of evolution. As the humans technology allows them to do so much, nature itself has found a way to offer the same to its inhabitants, defend itself and ultimately become a thinking entity of its own.
But to be honest I don't give Cameron that much credit. Technically impressive, visually amazing, but a mediocre story with something of a ham fisted message.
Yeah I too couldn't find anything deeper than your typical Disney message from Avatar.
And it's pages past, but the knife in the Generals mech was a good thing. I loled at it, but in a good way. Like I commented before, everything in the movie was too predictable and "safe", so any surprises, be it ridiculous or not, were a good thing :b
And like some people said the lack of Na'vi - human interaction was a big fuck up on Camerons part. You really forgot the size of Na'vi's very fast after Jake got stuck in the jungle. And the General was such a douche, I just PRAYED Jake or Neytiri would crush his skull
And it's pages past, but the knife in the Generals mech was a good thing. I loled at it, but in a good way. Like I commented before, everything in the movie was too predictable and "safe", so any surprises, be it ridiculous or not, were a good thing :b
And like some people said the lack of Na'vi - human interaction was a big fuck up on Camerons part. You really forgot the size of Na'vi's very fast after Jake got stuck in the jungle. And the General was such a douche, I just PRAYED Jake or Neytiri would crush his skull
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I'm a bit baffled at those who were expecting some sort of overly original plot/story. Hardly anything in Hollywood is original these days in terms of plot or structure, and least of all a movie with the kind of audience Avatar wants to go after (basically, anyone and everyone).
XMonkey said:
Quoting of your tag would be great.
But yeah not all of us are so limp that we accept the landslide of shit that's coming each year from hollywood. I mean sure a movie of this caliber needs a plot that's easy to follow, but this is James Cameron bitch. He could make a cohesive and clear version of the bible if he wanted.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Not surprising, but a girl can dream, can't she?XMonkey said:
I don't want to settle for lowered expectations.
XMonkey said:
I don't doubt that Cameron can handle a much more complicated plot and that was why I feel a bit disappointed that he doesn't give the audience much credit when it comes to taking in new things. He could have done it better, but chose not to. The boxoffice probably shows that he was right, but it does feel calculated how the plot and characters needed to be pared down to the simplest terms.
GhaleonEB said:
Are you sure?
That sounds like something Cameron would say :lol jett said:
Dont you mean you're going to FORCE YOURSELF TO WATCH IT AGAIN so that YOUR SOUL ISNT CRUSHED?
Combine said:
Its caught on with me in a big way. At first my reaction was "this score is completely unmemorable and sucks". Then it became "War is an awesome track, but the only standout for me". Now its "this thing is pretty damned good".
DanielPlainview said:
That seems WAY TOO EARLY for an estimate. Im not sure I believe it. However, if true, we're looking at a 0.6% drop :lol This movie's performance is so pleasing to me. Seeing these negligible drops every day puts a big smile on my face. As soon as X-mas is over, I need to get out for my third screening.
J2 Cool said:
Yup, and its probably the smartest thing they've done yet. Now they are truly ILM's equal. Hell, after Avatar, they're slightly ahead.
zoukka said:
You're persistant, I'll give you that!
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I'm too tired to go through the entire 'YEESSSSSSSSS!' thread. But here is some fun. :lol
SNAKU
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188325&postcount=59
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12678784&postcount=12
You can read back through this very thread for his impressions of it. His first and second screenings.
PHEONIX DARK
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11308249&postcount=29
SOLO (I'm sorry old friend :lol )
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12685829&postcount=53
Solo will especially love this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15174650&postcount=450
NINJA SCOOTER
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12687780&postcount=89
JETT (there were actually lots of jett quotes, but they weren't all unjustified considering he had yet to see a 3D movie prove him wrong. This however..)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14803733&postcount=179
This page is FULL of CROW orders: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=342286&page=5&highlight=avatar
SNAKU
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188325&postcount=59
Snaku said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12678784&postcount=12
Snaku said:
You can read back through this very thread for his impressions of it. His first and second screenings.
PHEONIX DARK
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11308249&postcount=29
PhoenixDark said:
SOLO (I'm sorry old friend :lol )
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12685829&postcount=53
Solo said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15169174&postcount=415Solo said:
Solo said:
Solo will especially love this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15174650&postcount=450
NINJA SCOOTER
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12687780&postcount=89
Ninja Scooter said:
JETT (there were actually lots of jett quotes, but they weren't all unjustified considering he had yet to see a 3D movie prove him wrong. This however..)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14803733&postcount=179
jett said:
This page is FULL of CROW orders: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=342286&page=5&highlight=avatar
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
stuburns said:
Why it appears you are correct sir!
Kagari said:
george_us said:
Hehe. Michelle Rodriguez is always worthless, can't really even blame the movie on that.
Zoe Saldana did do a great job, I loved the way the facial expressions looked on her Na'vi whatever-the-fuck her name was.
The guy who played Jake was pretty much one note and entirely forgettable, but it wasn't offensive like Lang.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
:lol :lol :lol
followed by:
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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=342286&page=7&highlight=avatar
That sure is tasty!
SpeedingUptoStop said:
followed by:
jett said:This will never happen as watching 3D movies gives me a headache.
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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=342286&page=7&highlight=avatar
That sure is tasty!
DieNgamers
Member
Neytiri was her name!Amir0x said:
Lang was one of my favourite characters in the movie. He made me laugh a lot just because he was sooo badass! Everytime you thought he couldn't get more hardcore he did something even more crazy. :lol
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
stuburns said:
Also that the art design looked shithouse - based off the first official concept pieces released and the video game art of Pandora.
It was certainly great to see he enjoyed the hell out of the film though and that he could own up to his claims.
Scullibundo said:
These posts simply confirm what Ive said about myself in this thread already: I never doubted the QUALITY of the movie (youll never see a trolling or negative one; I knew Cameron would deliver), but I had SERIOUS doubts about box office. Praise be to JC, I was wrong! Mmmmm love that crow!
That thread is quite interesting reading it back. My own comments are often pretty shocking. I stand by all the 'hyperbole' I gushed after the preview, no matter how much shit Sculli gave me about it. But this quote is kind of surprising I think.
"Obviously Jake, he's a traitor and his body is in the hands of humans. But lets see if Cameron has the balls to be stupid enough to have the humans kill Jake's body and for him to actually be a Na'vi thru some random magic bullshit and the final shot be a close up of his hand with only four fingers, if it's any of that kindergarden baby writing, Cameron's dead to me."
The complaints about the marketing campaign are funny to read again, I assumed people didn't know what they were talking about at the time, it's really laughable now.
"Obviously Jake, he's a traitor and his body is in the hands of humans. But lets see if Cameron has the balls to be stupid enough to have the humans kill Jake's body and for him to actually be a Na'vi thru some random magic bullshit and the final shot be a close up of his hand with only four fingers, if it's any of that kindergarden baby writing, Cameron's dead to me."
The complaints about the marketing campaign are funny to read again, I assumed people didn't know what they were talking about at the time, it's really laughable now.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Solo said:
I know, you eat purely B.O. crow, never suggested anything else. But people tried to tell you - you just don't bet against Cameron when it comes to Box Office. He could be making a movie about the Olsen twins searching for their long lost mother Rosie O'Donnel. YOU DON'T BET AGAINST CAMERON.
Here's a question, was it actually fortunate in hindsight, that Fox flubbed the marketing of Avatar? At least in the sense of how late it was before the public knew of the film, what it looked like, and what it was about? The normal routine of promoting a blockbuster is not this, it is teaser a year prior, then build and build with the marketing. To the point that everyone knows everything about the film, and if they want to see it by the time it comes out. Sometimes that interest peaks prior to the film coming out.
One factor I think of the terrific box office interest Avatar's garnering, is that people are surprised by the film. Someone like my parents are hearing about it just now, and didn't have a clue what it was until some tv special talks about the "revolution" it is in film, and that people are flocking to see it. The sensationalism of those comments combined with it's relative "new"-ness" to the public, seems to have helped a ton in the box office.
Right now it feels like an event film, and not the traditional, formal, planned summer event - but a legitimate event.
One factor I think of the terrific box office interest Avatar's garnering, is that people are surprised by the film. Someone like my parents are hearing about it just now, and didn't have a clue what it was until some tv special talks about the "revolution" it is in film, and that people are flocking to see it. The sensationalism of those comments combined with it's relative "new"-ness" to the public, seems to have helped a ton in the box office.
Right now it feels like an event film, and not the traditional, formal, planned summer event - but a legitimate event.
J2 Cool said:
Definitely. I PREFER this kind of marketing, actually. So many movies today have teasers 18 months before they hit, and trailers 12 months before they hit. What in the fuck good does that do me? My hype is usually long dead for those movies by the time the movie hits. Conversely, Avatar now seems like a masterstroke in not rolling out anything until 4 months prior to the film's release.
J2 Cool said:
Yup. Feels the first true event movie since the LOTR movies.
If the marketing had come out earlier, people would have been criticizing the blue people that much longer. It got bad buzz the momebnt they showed pictures. The hype build up the past couple of years was great as there was a built in anticipation just off of the tech that was hyped.
If we had to look at the Na'vi images for a couple of years, people would have been turned off despite the fact Fox spent the extra money on marketing to to hype it early.
If we had to look at the Na'vi images for a couple of years, people would have been turned off despite the fact Fox spent the extra money on marketing to to hype it early.
stuburns said:
Fine, I won't say they fumbled the marketing here on out. I'll call it an incidental stroke of genius. The type of marketing they ran was hugely successful, but it's a type of gambling marketing, in an era where studios force pictures to moderate successes that have no right being them. I don't think the way it happened with Avatar was planned, or was something that sat comfortable with Fox execs leading up to release.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
All that said, you know the marketing for the sequel will begin a fucktonne earlier than this one to generate hype for something that will now have name recognition.
Had my first experience of IMAX 3D on Tuesday when I went to see Avatar and I have to say I was seriously impressed. I've never been totally convinced by the 3D in 'normal' cinema screens but the IMAX 3D was something else entirely. I highly recommend it.
I'm going to wait until I see it again in 2D before I give my final 'verdict,' but the film felt really flat to me. I wasn't invested in any of the characters, the setting, or the 'jeopardy' they had to overcome. I just wasn't feeling it at all. Pretty, but ultimately hollow.
Considering the 'King of the techno directors' was given a near limitless budget, the most relaxed shooting schedule in the biz and all the time in the world Avatar left me impressed on a technical level, but not much else. Which is a real shame.
I honestly felt that Cameron had simply given the technology priority over the story and the characters. At times it felt a little bloated but at least it moved along at a good clip.
I'd like to see the film in '2D cinema' so I judge the film on it's own merits and not from the IMAX 3D technical marvel. But at the moment I was impressed by the technical merits and achievements of the film in IMAX 3D but left wanting by the actual film itself.
No they didn't. They got lucky.
And one can only judge something a massive hit after it's finished it's run. Just saying.
I'm going to wait until I see it again in 2D before I give my final 'verdict,' but the film felt really flat to me. I wasn't invested in any of the characters, the setting, or the 'jeopardy' they had to overcome. I just wasn't feeling it at all. Pretty, but ultimately hollow.
Considering the 'King of the techno directors' was given a near limitless budget, the most relaxed shooting schedule in the biz and all the time in the world Avatar left me impressed on a technical level, but not much else. Which is a real shame.
I honestly felt that Cameron had simply given the technology priority over the story and the characters. At times it felt a little bloated but at least it moved along at a good clip.
I'd like to see the film in '2D cinema' so I judge the film on it's own merits and not from the IMAX 3D technical marvel. But at the moment I was impressed by the technical merits and achievements of the film in IMAX 3D but left wanting by the actual film itself.
stuburns said:
No they didn't. They got lucky.
And one can only judge something a massive hit after it's finished it's run. Just saying.
Dabookerman
Member
The only thing they fumbled are the posters. I would have wanted one if they were actually good.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Yeah I'm still pretty worried about the bluray cover. Hopefully its this final poster, but even that isn't great.
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