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Rottenwatch: AVATAR (82%)

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It was good. I don't get all the hype. I saw it in imax 3d and I haven't seen any 3d movies in a while but the 3d in this film really didn't seem to serve any purpose. Neither did seeing it in imax. In fact I think the 3d was kind of distracting and I'd like to see it in regular 2d next time.

Good stuff: The set design of Pandora. An awesome looking place. Looks like all those paintings that Roger Dean did for Yes covers. The battle scenes. That ridiculously huge ship the humans were using reminded me of one of those boss ships in a SHMUP game. Cool stuff.

Bad stuff: Meh story and obvious use of things like "shock and awe" "terror" "preemptive strike," yes we all know the humans are supposed to be America. Cliched tree hugging native peoples type stuff too. Reminded me of the cartoon movie Fern Gully I saw when I was a kid.

Overall an interesting movie but all the hype like "revolutionary" "will change films forever" blah blah doesn't make any sense at all. It was a good action flik and that's it.
 
I saw this movie in normal non 3d cruddiness today and felt that there was something off about either the framerate or the motion blurring. The action scenes near the beginning were very difficult to follow due to this, but I got used to it and it stopped bothering me.

As for the film, amazing cinematography and art direction. I will most definitely buy the art book for this film. I think i loved the designs of the flying creatures the most.

It is unfortunate however, that the beauty was ties to an incredibly 'meh' story. I wish they had worked on the story more to make it less generic and predictable. You could so obviously forsee almost all plot points within the first 10 minutes of the film. If the story had been up to par, then I think that this film would have been an unforgettable experience.

Having said that, I still really enjoyed this film a lot, it's just sad to see such a big missed opportunity.
 
Avatar is set to surpass TDK at the moment. And it's got a pretty good shot of dethroning ROTK.
 
Truant said:
I would never have even thought it would be possible two months ago.
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I'm amazed so many people were doubting. The almost unanimously glowing reactions to screenings of 3D footage made it obvious that legs would be huge.
 
I also like how in that B-roll footage it seems like they were shooting it for an R rating with Sigourney saying 'You had better muzzle your fucking dog'. :lol
 
Wow, I just started skimming this thread from the start for any and all prior Avatar stuff that I missed prior to having seen the film, and holy hell there's a lot of negativity there.

Good thing I laid low on it until seeing the film, neither taking in the hate, or the hype. Though a bit of the hype was unavoidable, I guess.
 
I'm never paying to see a 2D movie in a theater ever again.

I saw the movie, came home, laid to bed and I WAS STILL WISHING IT HADN'T ENDED. It was like being a small boy going to the movies once again. So good!

This movie spoiled the theater experience for me. Anything that's 2D is now a DVD purchase at best.
 
tahrikmili said:
I'm never paying to see a 2D movie in a theater ever again.

I saw the movie, came home, laid to bed and I WAS STILL WISHING IT HADN'T ENDED. It was like being a small boy going to the movies once again. So good!

This movie spoiled the theater experience for me. Anything that's 2D is now a DVD purchase at best.
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There's still going to be great 2D movies in theater. You can't write of movies not using his tech. Even Avatar will look great.
 
tahrikmili said:
I'm never paying to see a 2D movie in a theater ever again.

I saw the movie, came home, laid to bed and I WAS STILL WISHING IT HADN'T ENDED. It was like being a small boy going to the movies once again. So good!

This movie spoiled the theater experience for me. Anything that's 2D is now a DVD purchase at best.
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Don't be stupid.

Krev said:
My thoughts exactly.
After all his comments about 'furries' it would be perfect.
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Has he even posted in this thread? I get the feeling that he's steering as clear away from this thread as possible.
 
Scullibundo said:
Gentleman, its been a pleasure.

I'm now off to go give my friend his bday present, then we're going to start heading toward IMAX.

rotkscene76.jpg
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http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18908332&postcount=2295

I just want to say that this is the Post of the year. Filled me with joy seeing this.
 
DeathNote said:
There's still going to be great 2D movies in theater. You can't write of movies not using his tech. Even Avatar will look great.
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Ditto. I am glad I got to see the likes of Where the Wild things are, Up in the air, The Hangover and Inglorious Basterds in cinema. And I doubt the next batch of 3D, CG heavy movies would be anywhere near Avatar until the likes of Spielberg, Jackson, Fincher, R. Scott, Del Toro etc get in on the action... it might be a pretty long wait actually. The next 3D film I know of and am looking forward to would be Toy Story 3... then maybe Tron Legacy.
 
Timbuktu said:
Ditto. I am glad I got to see the likes of Where the Wild things are, Up in the air, The Hangover and Inglorious Basterds in cinema. And I doubt the next batch of 3D, CG heavy movies would be anywhere near Avatar until the likes of Spielberg, Jackson, Fincher, R. Scott, Del Toro etc get in on the action... it might be a pretty long wait actually. The next 3D film I know of and am looking forward to would be Toy Story 3... then maybe Tron Legacy.
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Its all about Tin Tin baby. I can't wait to see what Spielberg has done with that Cameron system.
 
Krev said:
PD should be forced to wear an avatar of Neytiri's ass for a year.
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jett said:
He really should wear something more...offensive...than a picture of Cameron Crowe. Probably a hideos piece of Avatar fan art that borders on furrydom.
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Feel free to post something, and I'll absolutely consider it. I may even do an informal vote to see what everyone here considers the most humiliating avatar for PD.
 
Maybe it should just be the good ol' Cameron and his oscar picture.

Seriously though, once it hits 250m domestic, make a thread where you explain the situation and what irks him, then have Gaffers vote on the most uncomfortably fitting avatar.
 
Scullibundo said:
Maybe it should just be the good ol' Cameron and his oscar picture.

Seriously though, once it hits 250m domestic, make a thread where you explain the situation and what irks him, then have Gaffers vote on the most uncomfortably fitting avatar.
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I was thinking of making a thread for suggestions... I was just hoping to get more feedback here and have it ready to go the day it hit $250.
 
I think the people gushing over this movie proclaiming it the best thing ever have extremely low expectations and probably have never seen a really good movie in their entire lives.

The movie was a visual spectacle but not amazing...
 
Napoleonthechimp said:
I think the people gushing over this movie proclaiming it the best thing ever have extremely low expectations and probably have never seen a really good movie in there entire lives.

The movie was a visual spectacle but not amazing...
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Thoroughly agreed.
 
Napoleonthechimp said:
I think the people gushing over this movie proclaiming it the best thing ever have extremely low expectations and probably have never seen a really good movie in there entire lives.

The movie was a visual spectacle but not amazing...
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Yep.. this was actually the first time I ever saw a movie.

Gigs up guys.
 
Napoleonthechimp said:
I think the people gushing over this movie proclaiming it the best thing ever have extremely low expectations and probably have never seen a really good movie in their entire lives.

The movie was a visual spectacle but not amazing...
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(Nice stealth grammar edit)

But seriously, stop being an asshole.

Actual stealth edit: it wasn't a stealth edit after all.
 
That B-roll footage made me start thinking about two things, one of which was already metioned. First, as much as I love the movie that footage would have added so much more to it. Some really heavy stuff that I am surprised was cut. What was up with that control room getting blasted and everyone taking cover? Looked pretty important. And Secondly it definitely looked and sounded more like an R rated movie and I hate to say it but I probably would have liked Avatar even more had it been R rated. It's also a bummer that IMAX has a limit to run time.
 
Memphis Reigns said:
That B-roll footage made me start thinking about two things, one of which was already metioned. First, as much as I love the movie that footage would have added so much more to it. Some really heavy stuff that I am surprised was cut. What was up with that control room getting blasted and everyone taking cover? Looked pretty important. And Secondly it definitely looked and sounded more like an R rated movie and I hate to say it but I probably would have liked Avatar even more had it been R rated. It's also a bummer that IMAX has a limit to run time.
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Likewise. Maybe the sequel will get an R rating?
 
Scullibundo said:
I have no experience with 'Xpand 3D', but from what I've heard from people in this thread it sounds average.
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I watched it in Xpand3D and it was awesome. Great digital image, and sound was great!
 
Memphis Reigns said:
That B-roll footage made me start thinking about two things, one of which was already metioned. First, as much as I love the movie that footage would have added so much more to it. Some really heavy stuff that I am surprised was cut. What was up with that control room getting blasted and everyone taking cover? Looked pretty important. And Secondly it definitely looked and sounded more like an R rated movie and I hate to say it but I probably would have liked Avatar even more had it been R rated. It's also a bummer that IMAX has a limit to run time.
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I think that was in the film during the escape/'Masks on!' scene.
 
Feep said:
(Nice stealth grammar edit)

But seriously, stop being an asshole.

Actual stealth edit: it wasn't a stealth edit after all.
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An asshole?

People are praising it purely for it's visual elements. The plot is wafer-thin and the dialogue is shoddy at best. What else is there? Give it time and after watching all the movies in the future that'll employ this technology you'll become completely desensitised to it and more than likely bored by it.
 
Napoleonthechimp said:
An asshole?

People are praising it purely for it's visual elements. The plot is wafer-thin and the dialogue is shoddy at best. What else is there? Give it time and after watching all the movies in the future that'll employ this technology you'll become completely desensitised to it and more than likely bored by it.
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The story was good. Nothing special or new, but good.

You have to understand that Cameron HAS to make money with this movie. So I assume he'd rather play it safe by using a story that he knew would work instead of just writing something that could not have worked at all
 
U K Narayan said:
I hope this doesn't become a meme. Retarded.


No. Everyone is ducking for cover from something.
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Yes and I can't remember exactly what is said but Cameron describes it as something coming at them, plus the windows are all blown out?
 
Damn. The more i think about it the more I realize that this film was just special in its own way. Just outrageously magnificent. I now know how those felt, who saw Star Wars when it was first released.
 
Gui_PT said:
The story was good. Nothing special or new, but good.

You have to understand that Cameron HAS to make money with this movie. So I assume he'd rather play it safe by using a story that he knew would work instead of just writing something that could not have worked at all
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yes the movie was good and fun

but people here are praising it like the best movie of the fucking decade, it's average and it plays it compleatly and utterly save
 
Jibril said:
Damn. The more i think about it the more I realize that this film was just special in its own way. Just outrageously magnificent. I now know how those felt, who saw Star Wars when it was first released.
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This is so damn right. I wish I had said this myself.
 
I don't know if this was posted earlier, but this is a really interesting article about the original script for Avatar. They cut A LOT of shit out - a lot that should have stayed in, even if it had to be 3 hours.

http://chud.com/articles/articles/21969/1/PROJECT-880-THE-AVATAR-THAT-ALMOST-WAS/Page1.html

Some choice excerpts:

For those who don't want to read this all, some bullet points. Read the entire piece for in-depth description and analysis, but these bullet points are the main, stark differences between Project 880 and Avatar:

- Earth and its environmental problems are explored

- We see Josh Sully's Avatar being born

- It's revealed the Avatar program exists to train Na'vi to be an indigenous workforce for the Corporation, since it's so expensive to send human workers

- There are more humans, including a bioethics officer on the take, a video journalist, a head of the Avatar program and a second military dickwad

- There is an Avatar controller who is burnt out because his Avatar died with him in it. He committed Avatar suicide because he had fallen in love with a Na'vi girl who had been killed by the military

- The Avatars have a Na'vi guide named N'Deh, who is sleeping with Grace

- Grace survives the soul transfer

- Josh Sully gains the Na'vi trust by being a member of the community. He also excels in a major hunt

- Josh Sully shows his leadership not by taming a dragon but by leading a raid on Hell's Gate to rescue prisoners

- Josh Sully isn't the only Na'vi to ride a big dragon

- Pandora is a living entity and it sees the humans as a virus; it has been mobilizing the plants and animals to attack all along because it wanted to force the humans out

- There is no unobtainium beneath Hometree. The military just wants to wipe out the local Na'vi to send a message to all the tribes that they must be obeyed.

- Some of the humans and the Avatar controllers rise up in the final big battle

- Josh Sully tells the Earth that Pandora will give any humans that return a disease that will wipe out humanity
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The differences between the scriptment (which I'll call Project 880 from here on in) and the finished film are immediate from the first page. In Avatar Cameron feels like he is rushing to get to the Na'vi, and we begin the movie off Earth. Project 880 spends time establishing Earth and the life of wheel-chair riding ex-Marine Josh Sully (there are a number of character name changes between 880 and Avatar); the opening page of 880 presents a very Blade Runner dystopia - rainy and gray and filthy and high tech. The people are miserable and stink because of water shortages. The entire surface of the Earth is essentially industrialized, and there are even cities spread out across the Moon. There are no longer national parks, and Yosemite is pointed out as a posh condo community. Josh lives in a megalopolis that takes up the entire Eastern seaboard of the United States, and his cramped, prison-like apartment is located where North Carolina is today.

This is the Earth of 100 years from now, and Project 880 takes its time setting this world up. Earth isn't just polluted (with filth as well as waste from nuclear terrorism) and ugly, it's literally doomed; extinctions have destroyed the planet's biodiversity and its entire ecosystem has collapsed. Humans scrape by because they can turn sea algea into food, and most waterfront property has been turned into manufacturing for the protein farms. This is an Earth where the people aren't just urban, they've completely and utterly lost touch with anything green. Keep this in mind, because this is one of the guiding elements of what makes Josh fall in love with Pandora.
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Some/alot of that stuff will probably be used in the sequel, so could you just link it?

I have no intention of reading it, so I don't really want to see all that info.
 
Mad Hatter said:
I don't know if this was posted earlier, but this is a really interesting article about the original script for Avatar. They cut A LOT of shit out - a lot that should have stayed in, even if it had to be 3 hours.

http://chud.com/articles/articles/21969/1/PROJECT-880-THE-AVATAR-THAT-ALMOST-WAS/Page1.html

Some choice excerpts:
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Yeah I've been reading it (almost done) and there are a LOT of things that make more sense in the scriptment than in the movie. It's as if Cameron had thought things through in the scriptment and then when he started cutting stuff and condensing characters he didn't think the consequences through so well. One thing that seems a bit lacking in the scriptment is character development, but that's also lacking in the movie.

Btw, anyone's got recent versions of the script?

Still, when you say "a lot should have stayed in", I believe there's a lot in the latest script that was cut out, but the excerpts you mentioned seem to be all from the original, and it's a substantially different story.

Edit: BTW both Grace and Selfridge seem to be like their characters in the book, but each of them mixed with the "head of the Avatar program" character, who was cut for the movie. It also seems to me that some of the cuts from the original scriptment were due to Cameron wanting to save the "biological internet + gaia/eywa mind" for the sequels, and some stuff stopped making so much sense.
 
I hate my life. I commuted to Manhattan yesterday just to see Avatar. I bought my ticket in a hurry and when I got to the AMC and sat in my seat (I've never seen an imax film so I don't know what the screen is like) I realized the quality wasn't any better. I asked the pop corn guy outside if there was an imax screen in the theatre and he told me that the closest imax was on 68th street. Ran there to see if I could still catch a viewing but it was all sold out for the day. Absolutely gutted!
 
- Josh Sully tells the Earth that Pandora will give any humans that return a disease that will wipe out humanity
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That sounds like a declaration of total war which they would no doubt lose after the Humans lobotomise Eywa from orbit. I'm glad they didn't go the route of portraying all Humans as evil and beyond redemption.
 
Scullibundo said:
Also Solo, did you pay attention to the music when Jake is briefing the others about the Home Tree this time?
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I noticed it. But its still the unforgivable hacking up of "War" that stands out each time I see it :_(


GhaleonEB said:
There's plenty of Neytiri T on display in almost every scene, though never gratuitously. You just have to be looking for it.

Not that I was mind you.
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:lol

Jibril said:
The amount of people that keep repeating how they had trouble sleeping after watching this film, is astounding. Pandora-withdrawal is hard.
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When I was lying there in the PD hospital, with a hole blown through my F5 key, I started having dreams of Avatar.
 
FirewalkR said:
Yeah I've been reading it (almost done) and there are a LOT of things that make more sense in the scriptment than in the movie. It's as if Cameron had thought things through in the scriptment and then when he started cutting stuff and condensing characters he didn't think the consequences through so well. One thing that seems a bit lacking in the scriptment is character development, but that's also lacking in the movie.

Btw, anyone's got recent versions of the script?

Still, when you say "a lot should have stayed in", I believe there's a lot in the latest script that was cut out, but the excerpts you mentioned seem to be all from the original, and it's a substantially different story.
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I agree, although I would've preferred Avatar to mirror Project 880 more closely, there are things that could have stayed in the final cut. For example, showing some of what Earth was like and more of Jake's backstory would have helped us empathize with him more and show more clearly why he was so enthralled with Pandora - which is why I bolded those two sentences above. I'm too tired to come up with more at the moment, but again, I really wish Avatar was more like Project 880 - especially because it's a substantially different story.

It's just that I was kind of let down with Avatar. I want to love it so much. It could have been so much more and should have been.

bed time
 
I haven't kept up with this at all but I'm heading out to see this today. What is the consensus on the better 3D experience, normal or IMAX? I'd like to see it with the normal 3D but don't know if the IMAX is worth it.
 
fatty said:
I haven't kept up with this at all but I'm heading out to see this today. What is the consensus on the better 3D experience, normal or IMAX? I'd like to see it with the normal 3D but don't know if the IMAX is worth it.
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I haven't seen it in normal 3D. I've seen it two times in IMAX 3D. If you have the chance, you really should see it on an IMAX screen - I'm willing to guess it would be a much more immersive experience. It certainly was for me.
 
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