Shogmaster
Member
Nooooooo, you?!? I'm blown away! :lolDoube D said:
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Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
RSX pics/Next gen Nvidia card benchmarks/info..
- Thread starter Doom_Bringer
- Start date
monkeymagic
Banned
midnightguy said:
I've owned 4 Dreamcasts since its Japan launch but the huge difference in raw performance is more than evident.
Just compare similar games on both systems - Soul Calibur vs Soul Calibur 3 or Sega GT vs Gran Turismo 4.
monkeymagic
Banned
thorns said:
Isn't the average 3-5% hit for X360 4X AA considered 'free' but now nvidia are using the same terminology for an average 3% hit and it's damage control?
thorns said:
I don't see where they claim it to be free there - in fact their claims of PLAYABLE framerates at 1080p/4X AA look well substantiated and bodes well for 1080p PS3 games.
monkeymagic said:
Isn't the average 3-5% hit for X360 4X AA considered 'free' but now nvidia are using the same terminology for an average 3% hit and it's damage control?
I don't see where they claim it to be free there - in fact their claims of PLAYABLE framerates at 1080p/4X AA look well substantiated and bodes well for 1080p PS3 games.
try using your brain for once.. i'm not going to explain the same thing again.
They are claiming that you only see a 3-5 percent hit because the games in question are cpu limited to begin w/. Meaning that since the total power of the gpu is not used, adding the AA won't affect the fps. The funny thing is that the only place you do see significant drops are in resolutions the x360 won't even support. lol
Anyone who has ever played a pc game @ 1080p knows that 4x AA bearly makes a noticable difference. 2x is more than enough and in fact, I am sure that devs will keep AA out of 1080p games on the ps3 to begin with. It is not needed.
Anyone who has ever played a pc game @ 1080p knows that 4x AA bearly makes a noticable difference. 2x is more than enough and in fact, I am sure that devs will keep AA out of 1080p games on the ps3 to begin with. It is not needed.
monkeymagic
Banned
Doube D said:
Yes even at 720p I wouldn't say the difference is clear cut either but at 1080p definitely 2X AA at most would be required.
monkeymagic said:
I can't comment on the techy stuff here(I can only read and get the gist of it), but this I can comment on...you're comparing a FIRST gen Dreamcast game, to FIFTH gen PS2 games...that's a big gulf in experience with the systems as well as dev tool maturity and whatnot...the dreamcast was hardly pushed to its limits before the plug was pulled.
monkeymagic
Banned
OmniGamer said:
Soul Calibur was not first gen (not sure about Sega GT)
I guess it depends when you bought your Dreamcast but I had mine since Japan launch so possibly 'first gen' to US/EU owners will be different to actual first gen games
Shogmaster
Member
monkeymagic said:
Soul Calibur came out about 8 months after DC launched in Japan (late July 1999 IIRC). I think Segat GT followed at the end of that year, which would make it about 12 months after JP DC launch. SC was definitely a first gen title. Sega GT would be an early second gen.
Soul Calibur 3 and GT4 are both post 5 years after Japanese PS2 launch.
Can someone please summarize the thread(i've read every post but I'm no techie :lol)
Please correct me if I'm wrong:
RSX = Higher clocked G70? or RSX > G70 and both aren't related in anyway?
SO the RSX will be more powerful than the most powerful Nvidia PC GPU?
How does the RSX compare to the Xenos? Which is more powerful? Is the Xenos more powerful than Ati's next gen PC GPU?
Please correct me if I'm wrong:
RSX = Higher clocked G70? or RSX > G70 and both aren't related in anyway?
SO the RSX will be more powerful than the most powerful Nvidia PC GPU?
How does the RSX compare to the Xenos? Which is more powerful? Is the Xenos more powerful than Ati's next gen PC GPU?
monkeymagic
Banned
Shogmaster said:
So by that logic, DC launch games were 0th gen?
Of course that also ignore the development curve for the respective consoles with the 'easy to develop for' Dreamcast now all of a sudden on a par with the 'impossible to develop for' PS2.
Soul Calibur was a good indicator of what the DC was capable of since Namco pretty much get the best out of the hardware first time round (see TTT) and I can't think of a game that looks better on the DC (perhaps Shenmue).
Regardless, the hardware is the same 1 month after launch or 5 years after launch and PS2's raw power advantage is reflected in a multitude of games.
sly, the TRUTH is that no one outside of nvidia knows jack about the RSX. Now there is plenty of theories to go around, but to ask for solid answers at this point is pointless. Now some guy on b3d just mentioned that an nvidia rep was interviewed on G4 tv and stated that the G70 is the father technology on which RSX is based but that the RSX will feature this and that extra @ a faster mhz. True or not I don't know. One thing is for sure though, on most benchmarks, the G70 (cpu limited AND some 130 mhz slower than the RSX) is out punching the 6800 ULTRA SLI. So whatever the RSX is, it will most likely be a monster. 
ya, I read that post, too...Doube D said:sly, the TRUTH is that no one outside of nvidia knows jack about the RSX. Now there is plenty of theories to go around, but to ask for solid answers at this point is pointless. Now some guy on b3d just mentioned that an nvidia rep was interviewed on G4 tv and stated that the G70 is the father technology on which RSX is based but that the RSX will feature this and that extra @ a faster mhz. True or not I don't know. One thing is for sure though, on most benchmarks, the G70 (cpu limited AND some 130 mhz slower than the RSX) is out punching the 6800 ULTRA SLI. So whatever the RSX is, it will most likely be a monster.
the person stated that: RSX = G70 fine tuned to work well with CELL + higher clock speed + extra features
Wunderchu said::lol :lol
I can see it now..;
- hardcore PC gamer sees Xenos / RSX specs
- hardcore PC gamer runs out and spends >$1000 on GPUs
- hardcore PC gamer feels proud that, once again PC is superior to consoles
Can you imagine the price?
600W PSU + 7800 SLI + maybe new mobo (PCI-Express).
You could buy 5 PS3s for the same kind of performance.
Oh well, they will go down with price eventually. I'll be waiting
Shogmaster
Member
monkeymagic said:
One would reasonably think that everything released in the first 12 months of a console's life is first gen, but sure, let's play your little game and say launch period is first gen, and SC was "second" gen. That would make SC3 and GT4 6th gen games? :lol
And I loooooove how DC gets maxxed out in the 8 months of it's life by your account. Shit, Namco hits the magic "max out" button on it's first try! They didn't even need Kage OS to acheive this amazing feat, and DC maxxed out is less than 900,000 triangles per second! :rolleyes I guess 2 million+ PPS DOA2 and DOA2:LE was some kind of magic software that channeled in PS2 power into the DC!
This, I do agree with. There's no denying that there is almost 3:1 power difference between most games for the two consoles. But then again, there's 18 months between the two, as well as 3:1 transistor count difference, and $100 launch price difference as well so I don't see how that translates to anything anyhow.
Shompola said:
His eyes are fine. It's his brain that needs help.
Doube D said:sly, the TRUTH is that no one outside of nvidia knows jack about the RSX. Now there is plenty of theories to go around, but to ask for solid answers at this point is pointless. Now some guy on b3d just mentioned that an nvidia rep was interviewed on G4 tv and stated that the G70 is the father technology on which RSX is based but that the RSX will feature this and that extra @ a faster mhz. True or not I don't know. One thing is for sure though, on most benchmarks, the G70 (cpu limited AND some 130 mhz slower than the RSX) is out punching the 6800 ULTRA SLI. So whatever the RSX is, it will most likely be a monster.
Thanks Doube D. Will we be getting more in-depth info about the RSX and G70 anytime soon?
Wunderchu said::lol :lol
I can see it now..;
- hardcore PC gamer sees Xenos / RSX specs
- hardcore PC gamer runs out and spends >$1000 on GPUs
- hardcore PC gamer feels proud that, once again PC is superior to consoles
- hardcore PC gamer is pissed off that no games actually use the potential of his equipment
fixed.
Shompola said:
And there in lies the rub.
I am still amazed at how some XBox games look still. Nice to be able to optimize for a set piece of hardware. This is one of the detriments of PC gaming.
I still like PC's for some types of gaming but my PC gaming time gets less and less with each generation of consoles it seems.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Meh, you could hear the same quote from ATI guy the other day about their current X850 and upcoming R520.
Truth is, 4xAA is not truly free even on R500 (there's 5% performance dropoff), and I think it's not mandatory to be used (2xAA is completely free and is mandatory, but 2xAA should technically be free on G70 as well.)
Next gen I really dont see there being a difference in graphics for the consoles and pc's. Anandtech suggested the G70 being able to do spirits within graphics, gameinformer suggested the G70 being able to do movie quality graphics, if we indeed reach that level of detail with the G70 and RSX, I doubt there will be a different in quality, maybe performance. Now I dont know about the 360, will it be able to do movie quality graphics? Who cares anyway :lol
Shogmaster
Member
Wow! Now cobragt3 is in the thread to grace us with his nuggets of wisdom.
Double D, AB 101, and now cobragt3... It's a perfect trifecta of X360 trollecta! :lol
Double D, AB 101, and now cobragt3... It's a perfect trifecta of X360 trollecta! :lol
seismologist
Banned
mrklaw said:
actually Huxley looks like it's barely keeping up on the 7800. Might need 7800 SLI to run UE3 at max detail @60fps.
Tenacious-V
Thinks his PR is better than yours.
Shogmaster said:
No kidding.... And he had the nerve to say I was trolling......
But anyway, I still want to see the R520. Somehow I keep thinking that it's gonna be an insane beast. I have a feeling that this next gen of PC cards is gonna see another 9700esque ATi massacre!! Well maybe not to the extent the 9700 had, but a good jump on the 7800.
With the rumoured 32 pipes and 600+ MHz core..... But we'll just have to see......
4xSSAA just ain't gonna be free. The nature of SSAA dictates this. But I don't know why AA is the ultimate guage of power now. Xenos will have 4xMSAA (SSAA?) pretty much free. But it's also gonna cap out at 720p. If RSX outputs a 1080p signal, then scaling down to 720p is essentially 2xSSAA. Not sure how 2xSSAA compares to 4xMSAA, but we'll see.
At 1080p, I don't think the need for AA is nearly as great. You're already eating up enough bandwidth/fillrate, I'd rather they use impressive HDR effects than AA at that resolution. 2xMSAA should also be free on RSX. Xenos should have an IQ advantage in GPU-limited games. But RSX should have a shader advantage. Not sure how important the z-only pass is, but that's one of the few times you'll see all 48 ALUs running as VS. That's an area it will surpass RSX in. But I'd imagine shader performance and general effects should see RSX on top.
BTW, RSX is almost 30% faster than the G70, so even if everything's the same, it's got some extra grunt in all areas (except bw). I'd still like to see what (if anything) is removed for the RSX. I definitely want that 128bit blend feature. PEACE.
At 1080p, I don't think the need for AA is nearly as great. You're already eating up enough bandwidth/fillrate, I'd rather they use impressive HDR effects than AA at that resolution. 2xMSAA should also be free on RSX. Xenos should have an IQ advantage in GPU-limited games. But RSX should have a shader advantage. Not sure how important the z-only pass is, but that's one of the few times you'll see all 48 ALUs running as VS. That's an area it will surpass RSX in. But I'd imagine shader performance and general effects should see RSX on top.
BTW, RSX is almost 30% faster than the G70, so even if everything's the same, it's got some extra grunt in all areas (except bw). I'd still like to see what (if anything) is removed for the RSX. I definitely want that 128bit blend feature. PEACE.
Doom_Bringer
Banned
Forsete said:On a semi related note, when do you guys think we can expect to see some PS3 media? I'd like to take a closer look at that Cowboy/Rockstar game (RDR2?) and Motorstorm.
We will see some Japanese games for sure at TGS in september. But for the NA/European games we might have to wait untill spring next year.
Doube D said:
This is reasonably true. I'd still take some AA if possible, but 1080p is a lot of resolution. The Heavenly Sword demo for example had NO anti-aliasing, and though small jaggies were noticeable with careful examination of some shots, it still surprised me there was no AA there (and people weren't exactly raising the issue during E3
I'd say most didn't even notice, or if they did, not to any significant extent). I'd still happily take some AA, but that kind of resolution + motion + lots of other post processing would seem to cover a multitude of sins from an aliasing point of view. And of course, if you're outputting that kinda of resolution to a lower res display, you should effectively get AA for free. Outputting a 1080p image to a 720p display effectively nets you 2xSSAA. Furthermore, those with SDTVs should have NO complaints about IQ next gen, regardless of whether AA was used originally or not - they'll gain hugely in terms of effective AA when coming down from high resolutions sly said:
I'm sort of disappointed NVidia aren't talking more about RSX. I figured they would after G70 was unveiled, but seemingly they're still keeping mum. I guess we may find out about it at TGS..TGS hits around the same time RSX is supposed to be finished entirely for good.
RSX should be very similar feature-wise to G70. There may be a couple of additions and subtractions (of "unnecessaries" as far as the latter is concerned), and tweaks to better capatilise on the kind of bandwidth and CPU it's being paired with. Clockspeed obviously will be a big difference. It'll be interesting to see when Nvidia refreshes G70 in PC-land - I guess they're waiting to see what ATi comes up with - but it's possible RSX may be the highest clocked member of this family at PS3's launch.
As for Xenos comparisons, I think we should wait till we have full details on both, really, even as far as paper comparisons go.
Has Sony confirmed this? Do they really want games early in development to be seen or would a smarter strategy be to leave those thoughts of Killzone and Motorstorm in peoples heads with the promise that they will deliver to keep them from getting a 360. Now if they can get a level running in realtime of Killzone that looks just like the e3 presentation then this is all a moot point.Doom_Bringer said:
sonycowboy
Member
dorio said:
No confirmation. However, a Japanese preview of the PS3 is a no brainer. I'm still doubting they'll be any playable games there, but they should be completely realtime and hopefully we'll get some more announcements.
I expect Sony to stay real quiet for a few months, bump up at TGS, disappear again, and then do something right before the 360 launch to wow people.
It'll be tough on these boards, because I don't think you'll be seeing much real PS3 news for awhile.