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RTTP: The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers, I guess)

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Toothless

Member
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When The Dark Knight Rises came out in theaters, I saw it three times within a week but then never watched it again. It was a movie I really enjoyed watching in theaters but as time went on, I noticed more and more issues with it. The exposition was shoddy, Bane’s character is weakened dramatically with the introduction of Talia at the end, and the entire Lazarus Pit plotline is rushed. However, I never gave it another watch, in theaters or on DVD. After seeing Mad Max, I had been meaning to rewatch it, so I got around to it today.

I was super surprised when it turns out I really really liked it. I used to think it was a Spider-Man 3 sized letdown, where it’s so bad, it makes you forget why you liked the previous movies. In fact, I’d compare it most to Return of the Jedi, in the sense that there are some disappointing elements, but ultimately the feeling of finality and the catharsis it gives you a very great feeling at the end. There’s also the fun elements of Daggett’s ham and all of Bane’s scenes. Bane has ridiculous amounts of presence, and I think Nolan and Hardy aren’t given enough credit for following up the iconic Joker with a villain who no one said “Hey, this guy isn’t as good as Joker!” He stands on his own, and although he certainly isn’t as great as Joker, he still is a very worthy foe for the Batman.

The exposition problems are still there, but at this point, they’ve actually grown to be a charming element of Nolan’s movies to me. It adds a dumb operatic tone that’s actually enjoyable here (unlike Man of Steel, where the blunt dialogue is just annoying). Hathaway and Gordon-Levitt are both appropriate additions to the cast, being able to deliver the dialogue in a convincing way that also make them fit right in as the Nolan-ized versions of their counterparts. The focus on Bruce Wayne, unlike in TDK, works to the film’s advantage, which is why issues such as the eight year gap and Alfred bringing up the letter don’t bother me as much as they probably should. Talia and the Lazarus Pit being rushed is still a problem, but one on the size of the Ewoks. It’s not a good thing, but it doesn’t bring down the movie entirely.

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I’d also say it’s the only movie where I’d be willing to say a split in half could’ve helped, because the awkward five month time jump still doesn’t quite work. End part 1 after Bane frees the prisoners and add in more development in the Pit in the second movie. Part 1 can add in some more of Batman fixing up Gotham before being broken by Bane and both could use some more Commissioner Gordon. It really does pack two movies worth of plot into one film, which is fine if it was well-paced, but it really is much too rushed at several points in the film. I also wouldn’t have minded the return of the Begins suit at the end for more underdog-ness for Batman and also, the score is kinda eh compared to the other films.

But the last five minutes might be one of my favorite ending scenes in comic book movies ever. It doesn’t top The Dark Knight’s but it doesn’t need to. It gives a nice finale sense to the film that I doubt will ever be replicated with the now popular cinematic universes (I will admit DOFP’s ending does near the emotional quality of this ending, but that ending only works within the context of all the X-Men films, whereas TDKR’s ending fits fine even if you’re just watching the film on its own). The last minute gave me goosebumps while I was watching it at home, which never ever happens to me, especially on a rewatch.

All in all, The Dark Knight Rises is a flawed film. I’m not going to call it a great film, that’s for certain. However, I feel like it may be a bit overhated. It’s not deep, but it’s a comic book movie. It’s not the best blockbuster of 2012, but it’s pretty high up there. I remember I used to say Skyfall was a better film; I definitely disagree with that now. It might be Nolan’s worst film (even though this opinion is very, very wrong; Inception is notably worse), but that doesn’t prevent it from being a good finale to a great trilogy. What say you, GAF? Has the movie improved over time or is it still a shitty finale to two otherwise great Batman films?

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The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Its just kind of a structural mess with no real interesting thematic heard.

Also I agree that it's not Nolan's worst film, but I might have to hand that dubious crown to Interstellar. Inception is great
 

dankir

Member
I loved it, yes there are some stupid parts:

Giant flaming bat signal

Nuclear Bomb yet again being the problem and solution to a movie's story.

Talia's death scene

But the visuals, score, Bane, fight scenes it was really good.


It's a solid 7/10

Batman Begins 9/10

Dark Knight 12/10


Fight me GAF!
 
Saw it three times in theaters. There are some really good parts in the movie, but it's spread throughout most of the bad parts. I really liked the movie until he first gets into the Batwing.

I also hate how this movie was more action blockbuster than the other two...
 
Oh god, yet another person suggesting this already bloated time-waster ought to be split in two parts.

I vote for three parts - Hobbit style.

The Dark Knight Rises: An Unexpected Journey Into Darkness
The Dark Knight Rises: The Desolation of the Gotham Stock Exchange
The Dark Knight Rises: The Battle of an Unarmed Army and Guys With Guns
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I dunno though, there are a few shots in this film that just make me feel like Nolan didn't care. Like, moments that just look awful that I can't believe he either directed or didn't leave on the cutting room floor, like when Batman is coming towards the guy in the strobe light and it just looks awful, or the three times (I think) where there's a shot of Batman's head and he just has this dopey open mouthed expression. Small things, sure, but things that I'm astonished Nolan left in
 

Toothless

Member
Oh god, yet another person suggesting this already bloated time-waster ought to be split in two parts.

I'd probably honestly rather just have Talia thrown out of the movie and cutting out of all her scenes. I'm presuming Nolan wanted Talia over Bane all along though, and thus, I feel like the only way to fix the pacing is a two-parter.

Remove Talia though and move the deadline for the bomb up and I guess it could've been a solid 140 min movie.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
How would you suggest fixing the movie?

Either cut the time skip or get there much faster, like first half hour faster. Either you have to go all in on the deterioration of Gotham and give it the time to breath that it needs to be meaningful, or you have to cut it because you care more about the slow return to Batmanning in the beginning. I don't think the movie could handle both
 
Longer bane vs batman end fight at night on a high ground where batman can showcase some gliding and they both can have a final "league of shadows exam" with their ninja experience

Maybe some fear gas too

But nuuu let's just do rocky 4 at wall street for a couple seconds and resort to a shotgun before getting bitch slapped by princess diaries
 
Enjoyed this movie a lot, nowhere near Dark Knight which I consider a masterpiece but still good in its own way.

And yeah I loved the ending, even though him surviving a nuke blast is highly unlikely, everyone's faces when they realised Batman sacrificed himself for them, Alfred crying, Jim Gordon realising it was Bruce Wayne under the mask, the funeral. I love everything about it.

Teared up in the cinema when I first watched.
 

Game4life

Banned
Oh god, yet another person suggesting this already bloated time-waster ought to be split in two parts.

Hey weirdly there are people who are looking forward to Avatar Sequels so not sure why this is surprising. :p

How would you suggest fixing the movie?

It is beyond repair. That fight on the streets of Gotham was so hilariously bad. Bane's voice was not menacing ( the orginal voice in the IMAX preview was so fking good but they ruined it ) but funny. Chirstian Bale's Batman is one of the worst Batman performances I have ever seen. It is a bad movie right up there with Man of Steel and most of the terrible Marvel movies.
 
How would you suggest fixing the movie?

Cut out the bullshit that takes much-needed time away from Bruce's arc.

Cut Catwoman from the movie entirely. She's fun, but so obviously forced into the film. Cut Blake from the film as well. Again, he adds nothing. People are going to argue that he's somehow necessary to the idea of 'carrying the torch' like it couldn't be done any other possible way - and that is just so obviously bullshit.

Everything Blake does could be replaced with Gordon doing it - instead of sitting in a fucking hospital bed half the time. When Bruce is taken out of Gotham, STAY WITH HIM. Jesus. It's so fucking horrible how perfunctory his (second) return as Batman feels. It's completely unearned. We should have a good 40 - 45 minutes of time spent with Bruce only - outside of Gotham. This should be his movie, but he feels like a supporting player in it.

The film already runs 2hours and 40 minutes long, features some of the worst bloat and pacing ever and you got people suggesting they split the story across two films. The film as is runs more than long enough without making use of the runtime at all.
 

SJRB

Gold Member
I think TDKR is the only movie that makes me physically angry when I think back about how incredibly hyped I was and how amazingly bad it turned out.

They trap every cop from Gotham City. In the sewers. Every single cop. And they stay there for months without any accomodation like running water. And then they come out, clean and shaven and everything and have a massive street brawl with mercenaries carrying assault rifles and grenades. And this one cop who has been an asshole for no reason the entire movie, comes dressed up in his formal attire and gets killed offscreen for no reason other than to envoke cheap drama even though the viewer doesn't give a fuck because he's been an asshole the entire movie.

The Bane "twist", the magic knee braces, the "I knew you were Batman, I saw it in your eyes because I am an orphan too" bullshit, the bizarro mcguffin with the device that can magically erase your past, the insane stock market "heist" rendering Bruce Wayne without money because that's how heists work apparantly, broken backs can be healed by hanging in a rope for a day or so.

The list goes on. This movie is dogshit. The Zimmer soundtrack is good, but I'm struggling to think of any other redeeming factor.
 
Cut out the bullshit that takes much-needed time away from Bruce's arc.

Cut Catwoman from the movie entirely. She's fun, but so obviously forced into the film. Cut Blake from the film as well. Again, he adds nothing. People are going to argue that he's somehow necessary to the idea of 'carrying the torch' like it couldn't be done any other possible way - and that is just so obviously bullshit.

Everything Blake does could be replaced with Gordon doing it - instead of sitting in a fucking hospital bed half the time. When Bruce is taken out of Gotham, STAY WITH HIM. Jesus. It's so fucking horrible how perfunctory his (second) return as Batman feels. It's completely unearned. We should have a good 40 - 45 minutes of time spent with Bruce only - outside of Gotham. This should be his movie, but he feels like a supporting player in it.

The film already runs 2hours and 40 minutes long, features some of the worst bloat and pacing ever and you got people suggesting they split the story across two films. The film as is runs more than long enough without making use of the runtime at all.


Talia in the film or no?

Who would be the female characters? They needed females after Rachel died.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Everything Blake does could be replaced with Gordon doing it - instead of sitting in a fucking hospital bed half the time. When Bruce is taken out of Gotham, STAY WITH HIM. Jesus. It's so fucking horrible how perfunctory his (second) return as Batman feels. It's completely unearned. We should have a good 40 - 45 minutes of time spent with Bruce only - outside of Gotham. This should be his movie, but he feels like a supporting player in it..

That would work too. Really anything that keeps the movie from basically trying to be two and a half different movies
 
They needed females after Rachel died.

Tell me why, outside of some cynical marketing checkboxes to cover the audience spread. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying no women in the film, I'm asking why the gender of characters matters at all to the story. What I will say is that Bruce really didn't need another love interest, let alone to shack up with both.
 

Oddduck

Member
Cut out the bullshit that takes much-needed time away from Bruce's arc.

Cut Catwoman from the movie entirely. She's fun, but so obviously forced into the film. Cut Blake from the film as well. Again, he adds nothing. People are going to argue that he's somehow necessary to the idea of 'carrying the torch' like it couldn't be done any other possible way - and that is just so obviously bullshit.

Everything Blake does could be replaced with Gordon doing it - instead of sitting in a fucking hospital bed half the time. When Bruce is taken out of Gotham, STAY WITH HIM. Jesus. It's so fucking horrible how perfunctory his (second) return as Batman feels. It's completely unearned. We should have a good 40 - 45 minutes of time spent with Bruce only - outside of Gotham. This should be his movie, but he feels like a supporting player in it.

The film already runs 2hours and 40 minutes long, features some of the worst bloat and pacing ever and you got people suggesting they split the story across two films. The film as is runs more than long enough without making use of the runtime at all.

I agree with you about Blake. I would have preferred seeing Gordon instead of Blake for most of those scenes.

I disagree with you about Catwoman. Selina serves a purpose because she gave Bruce some closure over the death of Rachel. They were both people who hide behind masks, so she understood Bruce's struggles better than anyone else. For the first time in a Nolan Batman movie, we had a female character that was slightly interesting (compared to Rachel).

I would have preferred if Talia was cut from the film instead. That whole twist with Talia felt clumsily executed and super predictable.
 

Superflat

Member
It's loud and sloppy, but it's full of moments I really like. It's a film that plays pretty well on a giant screen with massive speakers. The orchestration of events and general storytelling after the first act was all over the fucking place. It's a film that pretty much gets by on ambition and dramatics, even moreso than the average Nolan film.

I loved Bane for all his unintelligible brutality, but the way they completely turned him into a sad puppy at the end was pretty much where I got off the bus completely. Everything after that moment was pretty ill-conceived and felt like a "well, we're out of ideas, let's just do this" scenario.

I would have preferred if Talia was cut from the film instead. That whole twist with Talia felt clumsily executed and super predictable.

Yup. The reveal did absolutely nothing but provide a twist to something no one cared about. Why should anyone care about Talia at all in that film? She was a terrible device as a love interest and as a villain.
 

Game4life

Banned
It's loud and sloppy, but it's full of moments I really like. It's a film that plays pretty well on a giant screen with massive speakers. The orchestration of events and general storytelling after the first act was all over the fucking place. It's a film that pretty much gets by on ambition and dramatics, even moreso than the average Nolan film.

I loved Bane for all his unintelligible brutality, but the way they completely turned him into a sad puppy at the end was pretty much where I got off the bus completely. Everything after that moment was pretty ill-conceived and felt like a "well, we're out of ideas, let's just do this" scenario.

I think the bolded is true for Interstellar but I am not sure how it is true for TDKR. Nothing about the movie felt remotely ambitious. At least anything more ambitious than usual blockbuster fare.
 
I really struggle with liking anything in this film, not just because of the continuity errors, the odd/poor direction, the ludicrous writing, but also because of the incredible misappropriation of the Occupy Wall Street protests. This is one of the few movies where I'm saying to myself "What?" for many many many many reasons.

It's a frustrating movie.
 

Superflat

Member
I think the bolded is true for Interstellar but I am not sure how it is true for TDKR. Nothing about the movie felt remotely ambitious. At least anything more ambitious than usual blockbuster fare.

I guess theatrics? It was certainly larger in scope than the previous two. The idea of a villain putting an entire city in lockdown with militarized convicts patrolling the streets, leading up to hundreds of extras fighting in front of city hall (or whatever that building is) all is quite a spectacle. Not to mention there's a literal bomb with a timer that can decimate the whole city. It ditches some of the groundedness of TDK and goes far over the top in TDKR.
 
The whole League of Shadows concept felt like such a step backwards to me. It's like the trilogy went from comic booky to "realistic" and back and it just doesn't work.
 

Zakard

Member
I actually like every movie in Nolans Batman Trilogy. I think they are all equally great. Batman Begins is the underdog, Dark Knight to me is a bit overhyped and Dark Knight Rises a bit under appreciated. Not a very popular opinion I know, but thats just how it is for me. Glad you can still enjoy it!
 
I loved it. There were faults, but the rest of the film was god tier.
Catwoman was an excellent addition. She provided a great love interest, that kiss in the end was awesome, I liked all her scenes and I liked she was in the "grey" area. This way you can show differences between philosophy of the characters.

Nolan used the trilogy concept, something that can end, to tell a complete story not only of Batman, but also Bruce Wayne's, the person beneath the mask, the core of Batman.

Bane was equal of Joker, different means to different ends. He was imidiating and I really liked that tear of his. It showd he was human, not some kind of monster.

Alfred was used very well. Just like Gordon.l found Blake a good addition, too.

Great lines, I didn't have a problem with fight scenes, although I have seen better.
 

Toothless

Member
Cut out the bullshit that takes much-needed time away from Bruce's arc.

Cut Catwoman from the movie entirely. She's fun, but so obviously forced into the film. Cut Blake from the film as well. Again, he adds nothing. People are going to argue that he's somehow necessary to the idea of 'carrying the torch' like it couldn't be done any other possible way - and that is just so obviously bullshit.

Everything Blake does could be replaced with Gordon doing it - instead of sitting in a fucking hospital bed half the time. When Bruce is taken out of Gotham, STAY WITH HIM. Jesus. It's so fucking horrible how perfunctory his (second) return as Batman feels. It's completely unearned. We should have a good 40 - 45 minutes of time spent with Bruce only - outside of Gotham. This should be his movie, but he feels like a supporting player in it.

The film already runs 2hours and 40 minutes long, features some of the worst bloat and pacing ever and you got people suggesting they split the story across two films. The film as is runs more than long enough without making use of the runtime at all.

See, I don't disagree with you, I just think there's a prime difference on what you and I were talking about. I'm going off what the film presents us as footage cannot be changed - so no having Gordon do Blake's shit. Would your movie be better? Probably yes (except that I really don't think Catwoman cut would be necessary when we cut most of the Gotham stuff while Bruce is in the Pit along with Blake), but for what TDKR is, I still enjoy it.
 

watershed

Banned
It has a lot of problems at the script level which surprised me because I thought Nolan and company would really deliver on another tight, concise action-drama like TDK.
 

criesmary

Neo Member
The biggest problem of Nolan's take on Batverse is all the goddamn fight scene. Too amateurish with almost no impact..

I mean, come on, just hired Yuen Woo Ping. Problem Solved...
 
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