Support NeoGAF

[Arsic]

I got my switch 2, and the first two games I'm tackling are Xenoblade and Zelda totk.

I've tried to beat Xenoblade 1 on Wii and the DE version on my Switch 1.

Im currently on chapter 10, and enjoying myself and not.

The story and characters have all been top shelf. I'm very interested in Shulk, the Monado, the world etc. Dunban and Alvis are cool.

There's a lot to praise here but my ultimate issue is the combat, progression, and quest systems suck. Like really bad.

At first I liked it was akin to FFXII but the majority of the combat is the exact same tactics every fight, so nothing feels like a unique fight to change up strategy. Add in the awful mmo side quests and it's just a slog and a grind.

So here's my question: does this ever change or get better in the sequels? If not, then I may just regulate this to simply being a YouTube watch franchise.

If it improves then I'll turn this shit to casual mode and bum rush the story to maximized enjoyment.

If it never improves the quests and combat much, then would I just want to casual mode every game to get rid of the chore as much as possible to focus on the story?

We've been spoiled by games like SMTV, Clair 33, Metaphor, Persona, etc to far better combat systems to keep my interest. Hopefully xeno 3 is on par with other current modern offerings.

 

[mistuhcahlos]

I didn't like it either and quit early to play Xeno 2.

 

[Dacvak]

For me, the gameplay was probably the most enjoyable part. Well, and the music, which is phenomenal. It's definitely a min-max kind of game for me, where "number goes up = brain happy". The other games are similar in that regard, but they all have pretty different and novel combat mechanics overall, which keeps them fresh.

But if you don't enjoy the combat, I'm not sure how much you'd enjoy the other games.

The stories are fine overall, but I also don't like weeb shit so I find most of the characters pretty grating, especially in Xeno 2. But it's still probably my favorite JRPG series and I generally recommend it to everyone. Xenoblade X is especially awesome, and I'm eager to replay that one.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I like the combat in XB2 way more, but as you say it will get repetitive. I like XB2 more in general.

 

[calistan]

I much prefer the combat system in Xenoblade 1 to Xenoblade 2, or Expedition 33, or probably any other RPG. Took a while, but something about it really clicked with me.

Expedition 33 is all about cheesy massive damage builds and memorising attack patterns to avoid damage. Xenoblade 2, I thought they overcomplicated it and it took too long to power up the special attacks.

 

[Arsic]

Seems like no consensus.

What about the casual mode? Is it available in all games if I find the combat shit in future sequels?

 

[mèx]

Great game, it made me a fan of Monolith Soft. But going back to Xenoblade DE after playing Xenoblade 2 and 3 made me realize how "rough" it is compared to the sequels.

The character interactions are pretty sparse, and a lot of them are locked under Heart-to-Heart affinity requirements, and they are only one on one discussions which don't involve groups of people.

That maps are mostly vast with very few point of interests compared to 2 and 3, so they feel empty a lot of times. Mind you, I still had a blast exploring, but then you play 2 and 3 and see how much they improved.

The combat is pretty simple and easy to understand, it gets the job done. It helps to switch characters since everyone plays quite differently, so if it starts to get stale you should absolutely play with different characters.

I enjoyed the story even if the pacing is off sometimes. After Prison Island there is a long stretch with not so much happening. But in general it keeps you engaged from the beginning to the end.

The quests... there is some good quest line but nothing on the level of Blade Quests in XB2 or Hero Quests in XB3. They really improved tons in the sequels. You should ignore the random fetch quest with generic names, just take them and they will mostly complete automatically, since they auto complete immediately without going back to the quest giver.

The overall setting, world building and the music are still top tier.

I personally prefer Xenoblade 2, but DE and 3 are still great games. I'm highly critical of XB3, mostly due to how the last part of the game is handled, but it's worth playing for sure too. All Xenoblade games are worth playing once.

 

[Ulysses 31]

At first I liked it was akin to FFXII but the majority of the combat is the exact same tactics every fight, so nothing feels like a unique fight to change up strategy. Add in the awful mmo side quests and it's just a slog and a grind.

Sounds a little like you don't know about the quests to unlock the extra skill trees for each party member that can switch up your fighting abilities a bit with all the (situational)buffs those bring. The Colony 9 quests/rebuilding unlock useful stuff too.

 

[Arsic]

Sounds a little like you don't know about the quests to unlock the extra skill trees for each party member that can switch up your fighting abilities a bit with all the (situational)buffs those bring. The Colony 9 quests/rebuilding unlock useful stuff too.

You are correct I don't know anything about this stuff however I am on chapter 11 and it doesn't seem like doing that is going to matter when I can just run Shulk, reyn, and Sharla to complete the game.

I also don't think new skills for characters fixes the boring combat. DPS, tank, healer no matter what. Plus grinding more boring content isn't going to make me like it more lol. I'm probably better to swap to casual mode if I hit a brick wall due to my not willing to grind whack quests to oblivion. I just want to see the story through to then move onto the sequels which sound like they could improve some of the problems with Xenoblade 1.

 

[mèx]

You are correct I don't know anything about this stuff however I am on chapter 11 and it doesn't seem like doing that is going to matter when I can just run Shulk, reyn, and Sharla to complete the game.

I also don't think new skills for characters fixes the boring combat. DPS, tank, healer no matter what. Plus grinding more boring content isn't going to make me like it more lol. I'm probably better to swap to casual mode if I hit a brick wall due to my not willing to grind whack quests to oblivion. I just want to see the story through to then move onto the sequels which sound like they could improve some of the problems with Xenoblade 1.

You can put Sharla in your party but it's a kind of trap. For example, having Dunban as a dodge tank almost removes the need for healing and makes battles go much faster (you will still need Shulk and Riki doing some healing). If you control Melia you can do tons of damage once you learn her rotations. Try to switch things up and experiment to keep things fresh.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

You are correct I don't know anything about this stuff however I am on chapter 11 and it doesn't seem like doing that is going to matter when I can just run Shulk, reyn, and Sharla to complete the game.

I also don't think new skills for characters fixes the boring combat. DPS, tank, healer no matter what. Plus grinding more boring content isn't going to make me like it more lol. I'm probably better to swap to casual mode if I hit a brick wall due to my not willing to grind whack quests to oblivion. I just want to see the story through to then move onto the sequels which sound like they could improve some of the problems with Xenoblade 1.

Agree with mèx , Sharla is probably the worst party member, but if Reyn is your tank then you practically need Sharla to keep him alive.

Tank/healer/DPS is the "holy trinity" in most games but in Xenoblade it's the most boring and tedious way to play.

Use Dunban as your tank and he does a better job as a "dodge tank" and requires way less healing. Then kick Sharla out and use someone way better. Riki, Melia, and the final party member are all great.

 

[Shifty1897]

Hi, mega Xenoblade nerd here.

Yes, the battle systems in 2 and 3 are very different to 1, and better for it. Additionally, the quests are better in 2 and excellent in 3.

People trying to play the series tend to fall off between the end of Xenoblade 1 and the beginning of Xenoblade 2. Xenoblade 1's expansion is not great, and Xenoblade 2 starts slow and doesn't explain it's mechanics well. Buy the season pass to make the base game of 2 better mechanically.

All you need to know is yes, each game is better than the last and you should play the expansions.

 

[Arsic]

Hi, mega Xenoblade nerd here.

Yes, the battle systems in 2 and 3 are very different to 1, and better for it. Additionally, the quests are better in 2 and excellent in 3.

People trying to play the series tend to fall off between the end of Xenoblade 1 and the beginning of Xenoblade 2. Xenoblade 1's expansion is not great, and Xenoblade 2 starts slow and doesn't explain it's mechanics well. Buy the season pass to make the base game of 2 better mechanically.

All you need to know is yes, each game is better than the last and you should play the expansions.

How does buying the season pass for 2 help with that? I have the expansion if that's what you mean?

 

[mèx]

How does buying the season pass for 2 help with that? I have the expansion if that's what you mean?

I think he means that Torna, Xenoblade 2's expansion, has a re-worked combat system that is snappier and faster that better matches the reduced run time (compared to the base game). This is not applied to the base game, it's just for the expansion. I would also argue that while cooler and snappier, the Torna combat system removes the strategic layer of combo-ing in the right way to apply orbs to set-up a proper chain attack.

The expansion pass adds a few accessibility options to the base game like the tuning of enemies' HP, attack frequency and so on. So you can customize the combat system to suit your tastes more in case.

Also you get some new broken rare Blades with the expansion pass. They are really good.

 

[Danjin44]

Original Xenoblade Chronicles came out in 2010 so the combat is little outdated but the combat in Xenoblade 2&3 are amazing, especially when they put arts in face button which made the combat much smoother.

 

[Arsic]

I think he means that Torna, Xenoblade 2's expansion, has a re-worked combat system that is snappier and faster that better matches the reduced run time (compared to the base game). This is not applied to the base game, it's just for the expansion. I would also argue that while cooler and snappier, the Torna combat system removes the strategic layer of combo-ing in the right way to apply orbs to set-up a proper chain attack.

The expansion pass adds a few accessibility options to the base game like the tuning of enemies' HP, attack frequency and so on. So you can customize the combat system to suit your tastes more in case.

Also you get some new broken rare Blades with the expansion pass. They are really good.

I'll have to look but is the expansion pass and the expansion two separate purchases?

I purchased the expansion many years ago.

 

[Fbh]

Yeah the combat in Xenoblade 1 just straight up sucks. It's super basic and repetitive.

I really liked the world, story, characters and music, which helped me push through, but the gameplay just isn't very good.

As others have said, 2 and 3 are way better in that regard.
I'd say overall
Story XB1 > XB2 >> XB3
Combat XB2 > XB3 >>>>>>>>>> XB1
Quest design XB3 > XB2 >>>>>> XB1

 

[Brigandier]

Yeah the combat in Xenoblade 1 just straight up sucks. It's super basic and repetitive.

I really liked the world, story, characters and music, which helped me push through, but the gameplay just isn't very good.

As others have said, 2 and 3 are way better in that regard.
I'd say overall
Story XB1 > XB2 >> XB3
Combat XB2 > XB3 >>>>>>>>>> XB1
Quest design XB3 > XB2 >>>>>> XB1

I think I agree with you on nearly all of that!!! I wouldn't say the combat sucks but it definitely is the weakest part of the game and the series, It is a game from 2010 to be fair and it was their first release.... XB2 combat however is super fun and a huge improvement.

 

[drganon]

2 and 3 are better. In particular, 3 is the best in the entire series, imo.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

All the Xenoblade games desperately need Switch 2 patches

Any day now is fine, Nintendo

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

I loved the game like few others because of the story and locations, but I never really got the combat and I managed to beat the game only because I did all the quests and was above lvl 80 at the final boss. I made things a bit easier by following a gem guide and crafting high-level gems as soon as possible, those really make a difference. Still, I was never able to beat unique monsters if my party was below their level, and a lot of battles took way too long.

I'd still put Xenoblade 1 above 2 for characters, story and world design. The latter is really extraordinary. The gameplay is a bit too grindy though, and I don't think I'd ever be able to redo all that stuff again. I spent around 200 hours on that game between the Wii and 3DS versions.

 

[Hudo]

Here is a hot take: I like Xenoblade DE better than Expedition 33. Fuck me, I guess.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Here is a hot take: I like Xenoblade DE better than Expedition 33. Fuck me, I guess.

Not hot at all. They're very different games. Clair Obscur is pretty much all about the combat, with a solid story and characters. Xenoblade is the ultimate "fight for the freedom of humanity" JRPG story with some of the most amazing environments ever seen in gaming, while combat is just a part of the game, and not the best one.

 

[Soodanim]

I hate the look of the redesign, but OG XC1 is on my list of Wii games to rip then emu at higher res. I had a great time with it.

It's been a good few years now, but let's be honest: it's always Reyn time.

 

[Poppinfresh]

Add in the awful mmo side quests and it's just a slog and a grind.

A couple of tips:

1) Turn on expert mode and use it. Essentially, this puts all of the XP from sidequests into a bank and you can adjust your character levels up and down as needed. 2 & 3 have a similar mechanic and it ensures that you won't overlevel yourself by doing sidequests. You'll still gain levels via combat XP and if you get to a fight that seems a bit hard, you can bump your level up 1 or 2 levels using the banked XP from Expert mode.

2) You're not meant to do every sidequest unless you are going for 100% completion.

3) Generally, sidequests from named NPCs are important and add to the story. The kill/fetch quests from unnamed NPCs are just easy XP and money.

4) The majority of your money is going to come from sidequest completion, so you should do as many as you can but don't kill yourself doing them.

5) Most of the kill/fetch quests can be completed by just exploring areas and completing the main quest.

6) The game has a difficulty spike (at least for me) around level 40, which is also where a lot of the systems really hit their stride. Combat is a lot more complex than it seems, but it is also essentially BREAK - TOPPLE - DAZE throughout not only XBC1 but also 2 & 3.

7) Google "Pollen Orb quest chain" and do those quests. It's a great substory in XBC1

 

[Poppinfresh]

Here is a hot take: I like Xenoblade DE better than Expedition 33. Fuck me, I guess.

XBC1 is a vastly better game than E33, so that's not really a hot take.

 

[SamuraiEdge]

Yeah the combat in Xenoblade 1 just straight up sucks. It's super basic and repetitive.

I really liked the world, story, characters and music, which helped me push through, but the gameplay just isn't very good.

As others have said, 2 and 3 are way better in that regard.
I'd say overall
Story XB1 > XB2 >> XB3
Combat XB2 > XB3 >>>>>>>>>> XB1
Quest design XB3 > XB2 >>>>>> XB1

You know what's up. You deserve a promotion

 

[Arsic]

Completed it today. I think chapter 13 is when I finally dropped it down to casual? I was 2 levels ahead of all mobs most game then this boss ended up being 7 levels above me… which made no sense because the very next area the monsters were my exact level.

Overall 6/10 by today's standards. All 6 of those points are the story, characters, and music. The gameplay here is a slog, chore, and dull as shit. It's very similar to ffxi which is a mmo I played for thousands of hours, or ffxii which I've played through twice. I would never touch this game again lol…

Im now on Xeno 2. Hoping it steps it up in side quests and combat in general.

The issue again may be with games like metaphor, Clair 33, persona, SMTV, etc existing nowadays that have far more engaging combat the sequel may be treading down the same path of just mindless grinding and sponges for enemies with no strategy involved. Im hoping that isn't the case.

On the final note- the story is absolutely worth subjecting yourself to the shit gameplay to see through. Almost as good as xeno gears plot.

 

[Plies]

Overall 6/10 by today's standards. All 6 of those points are the story, characters, and music.

On the final note- the story is absolutely worth subjecting yourself to the shit gameplay to see through. Almost as good as xeno gears plot.

Well said.

Are you me?

Edit - I'd love to read your thoughts on Xenoblade 2 once you finish it.

 

[Arsic]

Well said.

Are you me?

Edit - I'd love to read your thoughts on Xenoblade 2 once you finish it.

I'm just at the start of it now. Going to find Nia after chapter 1.

What a fucking glow up! Visuals obviously but man oh man this combat is slick so far…