The Artisan
Member
it is when people make arguments about TV vs movie and tone and all that other bullshit.
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Rumor: Marvel considering adding Kingpin in Spider-Man: Homecoming
- Thread starter richiek
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BodiesWithoutOrgans
Member
Do it come on
lol Kat DC TV there is crossovers everywhere there getting a mega crossover why can't we
lol Kat DC TV there is crossovers everywhere there getting a mega crossover why can't we
See, I liked seeing Spider-man shrug off hits like that, but hate how IIRC Punisher jobs him a few pages later and steals his web shooters.
DrROBschiz
Member
Of course
This is that not separate but actually separate line they have been towing
I suppose they feel like they kind of have to based on creative precedent
I mean look at how many directors have already began bitching for having to tow the MCU line.... its depressing. Maybe the Russos are the few that embrace it? And yet no explicit or direct acknowledgements yet
Talking about Knightress aka Jones
But I could see her saying fuck it and just jumping and hitting
Giant Man
DrROBschiz
Member
DC is certainly beating them to the punch on the side
Sure the quality varies wildly but the heart and fun is totally there
They need to get on board or trim the fucking fat
That could just refer to all the things that have happened in the films only, though sure, it's obscure enough to also include the Inhumans. Having Ross or someone be all "we have these Inhumans or whatever the fuck they are causing trouble all over and now Avengers blew up a building in Nigeria, something has to be done to you freaks running around causing mayhem" during the movie would've been better.
It's not a COMPLETE mess. The movies themselves have a pretty decent flow between movies (especially now that it has gotten big enough that Disney/Marvel is willing to put some big bucks to have bigger characters like Tony/Iron Man & possibly Hulk outside solo & Avengers movies and they've seemingly opened the Pandora's box of doing cross-overs). And the shows do mention the movies at times, AoS even had the really awesome Winter Soldier tie-in. Also, so far the movies don't disregard the shows completely. Like, Marvel Studios isn't developing a Jessica Jones movie with a completely different main actor with a storyline that ignores JJ S1 altogether. Or a Quake movie without Chloe Bennet (though if she continues criticizing Marvel, I'm sure they will ;P )
It could be far better, but it's not a complete mess. That's hyperbole.
Oh, right, fair enough. Carol dealt with it too I think, though I can't remember if that was before or after her son raped her.
Zemo wasn't a goofball nor was Alexander Pierce in the winter soldier, every other villain (or antagonist) up to that point was.
He also said it was because Iron mad showed up in 2008. I wouldn't trust this android with logical analysis.
Oh yeah she got drunk and tried to fly to the moon to fight the Kree......Then Ironman and Quicksilver fired her from the avengers
Extra Sauce
Member
Poor Vincent D'Onofrio is gonna have to keep adding back that weight for the rest of his life, isn't he?
R.I.P.
R.I.P.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
OK.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It feels like there's three distinct universes with brief name drops. The movie universe, the ABC TV universe, and the Netflix universe. Yes they all theoretically connect to each other, but it would be disingenuous to say that they are all working on the playbook.
I still find it weird that no one in the movie universe knows that Coulson is alive, considering they all seemed sad that he "died" back in Avengers 1.
KeyBladerXIII
Member
I think seeing a guy thrown into a spinning propeller then watching him get shredded in the first Cap movie is a lot worse than the head smash.
For me, I see in problem putting Kingpin in, or even Daredevil. Because honestly, general audiences aren't going to give a fuck that he was in another show as long as they give him a good introduction. If Ulysses Klaw showed up in a few episodes of Agents of Shield and then had the exact same intro he had in Age of Ultron, no one would care that he was on the show first because you can still get who the guy is. The general audience would understand just fine and the fans would be happy to see the cross-over. I see no difference here if it would happen the same way.
The problem is that Marvel didn't care for the villains and gave them less screen time (except for loki) as they should have. It was and still is all about the heroes.
Piku_Ringo
Banned
DrROBschiz
Member
Yeah
In retrospect i feel like Agents of Shield was a bad decision
Should have been Movie/Netflix only with the chance of real crossover
They could just do a Deadpool-like R rated movie if they want to go that far, but I don't think Daredevil himself, as a character, needs head-blowing shotgun action. And there are already some pretty big tonal changes between the likes of Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy and Winter Soldier, so having changes in style & tone isn't that big of a deal. Spider-Man himself is an outlier within Civil War as a kind of light, quippy character who contrasts quite starkly (pun totally unintended
) with the overall style/vibe of the movie, and that worked just fine. Daredevil could totally be in a Spider-Man movie (at least once Tom Holland/MCU Peter Parker maybe grows up a bit) and that wouldn't have to be some kind of total departure from his character in the Netflix shows.firehawk12
Subete no aware
For me, if they really want to pretend that all these properties exist in the same timeline, then Kingpin would have to be the same violent sociopath that you see in the show. Well, that and he's supposed to be in prison anyway.
I wonder if we'd get a "super powered' Fisk in a Spidey movie. Now I don't mean he's got lazer vision or can fly or anything but if they want to make him at all a physical match for Spidey he'd have to be closer to his comic version who is often portrayed as portly but also a massive power lifter. I think Michael Clark Duncan was actually pretty decent in terms of stature and size even if the rest of the movie he was in wasn't great. If he were to fight Spidey I'd expect he'd get a somewhat unrealistic power up even if nowhere its mentioned outright, like catching spidey in mid air and giving him a back breaker or picking up his entire desk and throwing it like it was a fraction of the weight and size.
Agents of Shield started with a real apparent chance of crossover though. Viewers were lured in with several Nick Fury and Lady Sif cameos, the events of Winter Solider completely changed the tone of the series. But nothing came out of it, and when the Netflix series did their own thing too, the disconnect became really apparent.
Your reasoning here appears to be "I personally don't like the show, so she's wrong and also pouting by calling out their claims as bullshit".
DrROBschiz
Member
Yeah the winter soldier days and fury all made complete sense and then... the drop
I think going with the Inhumans story was the beginning of the end
They just couldn't bridge the gap and it didnt help that
1. It didnt connect with other high success TV Netflix
2. Inhumans movie is so far away and likely in Limbo now
3. They stopped bringing in more C tier heroes.
Glass Rebel
Member
If it makes sense from a story perspective, sure, do it.
Having characters appear or even mentioning them just to maintain the illusion that the movie and TV side are in the same universe is idiotic.
Having characters appear or even mentioning them just to maintain the illusion that the movie and TV side are in the same universe is idiotic.
DrROBschiz
Member
It is a shame
Its not like Disney is swimming in mountains of money
They still feel very restrained and conservative in some ways and splurge heavy in others
But thats the name of the game. Kevin Feige deserves full control of everything because i believe he has been very wise with what should and shouldnt crossover in the MCU and what through lines are worth pursuing
They did Batroc though.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
The problem with SHIELD is that the very premise of the show was invalidated by one of the first movies that came out after the series premiered.
Why would you make a show called Agents of SHIELD when you're making a movie that pretty much ends SHIELD itself. There was some serious disconnect between decision makers in TV and Film when this thing was greenlit. The show was able to work around this for some time and actually got better once it was able to stop spinning it's wheels waiting for the Winter Soldier plot twist to happen. But the idea of having these behind the scenes guys cleaning up the messes made in the movies really only works if the two are allowed to interact occasionally.
Because of what happened to SHIELD the story was forced no in an entirely different direction and has since become more Secret Warriors than SHIELD. And it always has to involve characters who can conveniently not exist or matter when a plot line could affect the trajectory of the film stories.
While it's certainly entertaining, SHIELD just never recovered from being a poorly planned project from the outset. I don't think it will ever make its major connection with Coulson reuniting with the Avengers, I don't think Fury will ever appear on the show again and its only fate is to end it's current arcs and quietly end itself because it will always just be excess baggage.
Netflix is much more likely to be where we see crossovers happen because the premise of those shows is not immediately invalidated by movie canon. Heroes and enhanced people will continue showing up in NY and elsewhere.
Why would you make a show called Agents of SHIELD when you're making a movie that pretty much ends SHIELD itself. There was some serious disconnect between decision makers in TV and Film when this thing was greenlit. The show was able to work around this for some time and actually got better once it was able to stop spinning it's wheels waiting for the Winter Soldier plot twist to happen. But the idea of having these behind the scenes guys cleaning up the messes made in the movies really only works if the two are allowed to interact occasionally.
Because of what happened to SHIELD the story was forced no in an entirely different direction and has since become more Secret Warriors than SHIELD. And it always has to involve characters who can conveniently not exist or matter when a plot line could affect the trajectory of the film stories.
While it's certainly entertaining, SHIELD just never recovered from being a poorly planned project from the outset. I don't think it will ever make its major connection with Coulson reuniting with the Avengers, I don't think Fury will ever appear on the show again and its only fate is to end it's current arcs and quietly end itself because it will always just be excess baggage.
Netflix is much more likely to be where we see crossovers happen because the premise of those shows is not immediately invalidated by movie canon. Heroes and enhanced people will continue showing up in NY and elsewhere.
paragonpro
Banned
Agents of shield is essentially non cannon according to feige and whedon. Plus I feel like it would be too little too late for the movies to attempt to make any refference to that show. However the netflix stuff is still salvagable in the filmverse. This would be a really great move
Not this shit again. This has never been said, at all.
DrROBschiz
Member
Source?
because clearly it was Canon up until.... they decided it isnt based on performance...
I feel really bad for everyone working on Shield. They did get some seriously great people working on it only to not respect it
I blame Ike Perlmutter
How expensive is the kid playing Peter Parker? Would it be possible for him to do voice over for Spider-Man in a few episodes of The Defenders while a stunt double does all the work in the suit to cut some costs, if needed? Spider-Man should be a way to remove the divide between TV and movies.
paragonpro
Banned
Comments from whedon during his AOU press junket
"A lot of people come back in The Winter Soldier. Its a grand Marvel tradition. Bucky was supposed to die. And the Coulson thing was, I think, a little anomalous just because that really came from the television division, which is sort of considered to be its own subsection of the Marvel universe. As far as the fiction of the movies, Coulson is dead."
Heres the link
http://moviepilot.com/posts/2882938
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It honestly feels like a show that exists just to get to 80-100 episodes so they can sell it in strip syndication packages. I expect them to end it in season 4/5 and cut their losses. ABC probably doesn't like having a ratings albatross on their schedule, and considering how fast CBS dumped Supergirl, I'm sure ABC wishes there was a B-tier cable network that they could move the show to.
The Artisan
Member
i'd say he's already "superpowered". both kingpin and cap are supposed to be peak human in the 616 comics, however, cap is very obviously lowest level superhuman in the MCU, and if things are consistent, so is kingpin. it certainly seems that way; he ripped a guy's head off with brute strength, he took a taser to the neck like a bee sting, he was lifting...what looked like more than even a peak human could lift in jail, and he busted his hands out of handcuffs, which bane did in dkr.
DrROBschiz
Member
Network TV and Comics just arent a good Fit
CW makes it work because they have nailed a narrow audience and considated the budgets and creation studios
CW was super smart in how they handle things
Sure the end product is janky from time to time but the dedication shows
Only issue I see is Spidey in Civil War was mostly CG.
I don't think they have it in the TV budget to reproduce that kind of CG action. While I personally wouldn't mind a more grounded, real stunt based Spidey for the Netflix TV, I think that might create a disconnect between the films and TV that Marvel doesn't really want.
But it would be fucking amazing if Spidey just showed up to TALK in Daredevil at some point, honestly.
moltonasty
Member
PLEASE GOD!!!!!!!!!!
Vincent is just incredible in DD, I need this in my life.
Vincent is just incredible in DD, I need this in my life.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yeah, as terrible as I found Legends of Tomorrow at times, it still came off as a better show than Shield. I don't know if I'll ever care enough to watch the other shows, particularly when everyone says Arrow is terrible, but I feel more invested in the DC TV universe.
Yeah I guess that is sort of true, its just everything in the MCU and TV shows seems so much smaller scale in terms of both the events and the heros abilities and powers so it kind of throws things off in terms of power levels and what not. Just comparing DD to Spiderman from the MCU and I do wonder how a guy like Kingpin would keep up with him if he was schooling so many other super humans. Honestly I'd just love to see Spidey cracking quips and jokes till the Kingpin just lost his shit and went Berserk.
DrROBschiz
Member
Its the Committment
It shows in the work. Its why the MEGA crossover they are doing is possible
DC TV is more MCU than the MCU.
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