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[liquidspeed]

You know next gen will still disappoint with shoddy animations.

Plus the amount of work that went into that clip is mind numbing. Next gen will simply further exacerbate the current problem of computing power exceeding content generation ability.

those visuals + improve on Uncharted's animations = WIN

 

[Orayn]

Wow what the fuck is this? Seriously disappointing if true. Its bullshit to have 2gigs, it shoud be 4 MINIMUM

If Microsoft announced they were putting in 4, there'd be a thread full of people bitching about it not having 8, if it had 8 people would want 16, 16 for 32, so on and so forth, all from people with no development experience whatsoever making arguments predicated on the prices for PC RAM sticks and wanting bigger numbers.

this is neogaf dude.gif

 

[DopeyFish]

2 gigs of ram? seems kinda low

Not really. Thats 4x more of everything

You can assume the OS, game code, etc won't take more than that but if unified would offset the increase of frame buffer (hoping on ~35+ MB of EDRam Though that is 350-400 million transistors mainly for frame buffer which likely won't happen)

2 GB is a lot of space to work with- it opens a ton of doors and the rate of return on memory is dropping significantly - you won't need 4x the memory for music or sound, they're relatively fixed assets at this point. Code won't take up nearly as much. The biggest benefit 4 GB would give out of everything is pre-emptive data caching which is a hard sell.

4 GB and the developers would have a hard time utilizing it IMO.. There would be far less optimization

Remember windows takes up a HUGE amount of ram and if it's 2GB unified, there's no redundancies with VRAM like on PC... It's a massive amount of ram to work with

REMEMBER, they are loading off of optical drives! Imagine how pathetic the loading times would be if someone were to try using 3GB of textures/geometry... You could go make a sandwich and it still wouldn't be done

 

[guek]

I hope all you "2gb is pathetic" gaffers realize that in 5 years, anything they put in a current console is going to feel archaic and out of date.

You'd spend $599 on a beast in 2012 and then bitch and moan that the next gen is taking to long to get here and that your current consoles are obsolete in 2017.

Then in 2025, the arachnids invade and all hell breaks loose, but that's a discussion for another thread.

I know all of this to be true because that is exactly what's happening right now. Except the arachnids part. That comes later.

 

[Instro]

Some of the posts in here are comedy gold. Good luck with that "future proof" console.

 

[TUROK]

If Microsoft announced they were putting in 4, there'd be a thread full of people bitching about it not having 8, if it had 8 people would want 16, 16 for 32, so on and so forth, with all of their arguments predicated on prices for PC RAM sticks and no experience developing for a console whatsoever.

this is neogaf dude.gif

Yeah, maybe, but until you figure out how to actually peer into these alternate realities, your point is moot, especially considering a 4 GB jump in RAM would be in line with the Xbox to 360's jump in RAM.

 

[Furoba]

I wonder, will it still come with a standard DVD drive?

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I doubt it going to look significantly better than what we have now even if the specifications surpass what we have now. I am taking about generational leaps, not slight improvements. What I am really dreading is game prices and development time(especially for Japanese games) next generation.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

2 AMD gpus makes this rumour smell like bullshit to me.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Next gen will be easily able to do that if they go with 2013. 6 GB of Ram, a powerful GPU (580 X 1.5-2.0), and a nice little processor. All within a 499 budget, its done.

Better keep a fire extinguisher handy though if that's in a case as "small" as the PS3.

 

[RoboPlato]

I really don't think the RAM will be much of an issue. Even in modern high spec PC games 2gb is plenty and it stacks up even better to PCs than the 512mb of RAM did at the time for the 360. That 2gb will also get a bit more mileage out of it in a console setting, assuming the OS isn't too resource heavy. Combine that with a separate pool for VRAM and it seems nice to me. Plus, it could all change.

 

[GavinGT]

It really wouldn't matter if Microsoft went with 2 GB RAM and Sony went with 4 GB, since games will be developed with the lowest common denominator in mind. Besides, 2 GB seems plenty for a console.

That said, it'll be 2013 and not 2012.

 

[east of eastside]

ARM powered 720 AMD APU:

Believe!

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I wonder, will it still come with a standard DVD drive?

Considering there are multi-disc 360 games now, and even Nintendo is using 25GB optical media next gen, I'd say it's about 95% certain they use Blu Ray or something comparable.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

Hoping this is not the case. 2GB of ram would cripple this thing right out of the gate.

Especially considering this console will likley last another 10+ years, we need this thing to be as power packed as possible.

Can't stop laughing at these 'omg 2 GB comments.'Not even the most hardcore PC games utilize over 1.5 GB of RAM right now. Battlefield 3 on Ultra on Caspian Border, Skyrim, Just Cause 2, The Witcher 2 etc...NONE of them use even close to 2 GB of RAM. And remember, Windows has huge overhead vs what consoles use in terms of OS RAM space etc.

2 GB of RAM is more than most devs will know what to do with. If the GPU's are going to utilize shared DRAM with the system though, then they'll probably do 4 GB, so devs can allocate RAM to system/VRAM as they see fit. That'd be killer.

2 GB of XDR2 shared between GPU + system would be disappointing, but still a huge improvement over the 360/PS3.

 

[DopeyFish]

Considering there are multi-disc 360 games now, and even Nintendo is using 25GB optical media next gen, I'd say it's about 95% certain.

95% certain it will be blu-ray you mean?

Costs on making the drives are plummeting and by the time 2012/2013 rolls around, They should be at near price parity with DVD
Edit: never mind, saw your stealth edit

 

[params7]

My prediction is that the Xbox3 wont be geared towards gamers (and all youse gaffers will CRAH)

Oh it'll have a respectable processor, a decent GPU, and a healthy dose of extra ram, but the thing will be modern existing tech, not cutting edge. It'll be priced slightly lower, definitely less than $400 for the cheapest SKU, and be focused around using the Kinect (2.0?) as a living room centerpiece. It'll have a sizable HD focused around downloading media, exchanging pictures, but more importantly, purchasing living room apps. MS will attempt to do what apple TV could not and take over the living room using the xbox brand and kinect functionality as a trojan horse. They will attempt to start a new cheap app market centered around micro-content in the living room. It'll also attempt to replace cable as the standard provider for movies and shows. Gaming will of course be emphasized each year at E3 or other trade events, but really they'll be focusing more on ways to make money through digitial distribution of products other than games. The thing will have full cross compatibility with windows 8 and allow seamless media sharing between multiple devices. Windows phones and laptops will automatically sync folders you want to share between devices when within your home network. There will be apps that work on both phones and on the Xbox3 (via kinect). You'll be able to communicate and share content with other people on the xbox live network through their phone, computer, or console.

That...is my prediction. *removes tinfoil hat*

Then MS will lose the NA market to Sony as well. The moment MS stops catering to CoD/Halo/FPS high school crowd, I mean. And it can't do that while being centered around Kinect.

 

[guek]

Then MS will lose the NA market to Sony as well. The moment MS stops catering to CoD/Halo/FPS high school crowd, I mean. And it can't do that while being centered around Kinect.

You clearly didn't read my post thoroughly. I never said they'd abandon gamers or force them to play solely with kinect. MS likely wants something much larger than just the hardcore gaming sector. What's going to give sony the win? Graphixxx? 8gb of ram?

Microsoft wants to control the living room, and you can't do that with just video games.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Then MS will lose the NA market to Sony as well. The moment MS stops catering to CoD/Halo/FPS high school crowd, I mean. And it can't do that while being centered around Kinect.

Actually, they could end up securing that highly lucrative market that Nintendo started the generation with, and that Sony owned the generation before.

Focusing on our demographic is actually the one that limits a userbase.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Can't stop laughing at these 'omg 2 GB comments.'Not even the most hardcore PC games utilize over 1.5 GB of RAM right now. Battlefield 3 on Ultra on Caspian Border, Skyrim, Just Cause 2, The Witcher 2 etc...NONE of them use even close to 2 GB of RAM. And remember, Windows has huge overhead vs what consoles use in terms of OS RAM space etc.

2 GB of RAM is more than most devs will know what to do with. If the GPU's are going to utilize shared DRAM with the system though, then they'll probably do 4 GB, so devs can allocate RAM to system/VRAM as they see fit. That'd be killer.

2 GB of XDR2 shared between GPU + system would be disappointing, but still a huge improvement over the 360/PS3.

Well Crytec is a developer...and they kinda know how to make purty graphics...they want 8 GB

 

[Raistlin]

Yeah, I mean it would only be like 5x as powerful as their last console. And more useable gaming power than a modern PC, all the while being a lot cheaper.

So much lulz.

WTF? I wasn't talking to you, I was referring to the specs in the OP.


The specs make zero sense, especially as an aggregate - and I'm not referring to power. If those were the specs you're referring to however ... okay ... I'll bite:

• hex-core CPU - I can live with that. Some would argue it's overkill in a console, but I disagree. Sony and MS have been inching closer and closer to using these as set-top boxes for all sorts of media and other functions. And I only see them moving even further in this direction. Having a lot of cores is quite beneficial for multitasking, as well as for OS-level functions that run along with the game.
  
  For games in particular though, if the CPU in question supports OoO instructions it could be a great boon for areas that have been lacking in games - serious evolution/revolution in AI, procedural animations, etc.

• 2GB DDR 3 RAM - I'm not going to argue whether 2GB is sufficient or not, but it's the second part that's especially laughable. When talking consoles versus PC, even after you minimize the OS footprint and multitasking (though again I think multitasking will only increase), what allows consoles to get by with limited memory versus their PC counterparts is using relatively fast, high-bandwidth memory. This is particularly important for VRAM.
  
  Assuming this is unified memory, DDR3 memory is ridiculous for a system launching in 2012/13. It would severely gimp what performance you can eek out of the relatively weak GPU. You need the extra bandwidth in order to push the bounds of the GPU.
  
  There is however an insinuation that the GPU may have dedicated VRAM in the OP. That however makes little sense in the overall architecture. For one, it would be a step backwards versus the 360. In a closed system, unified memory is the logical choice unless costs make it impossible to use the full amount with faster RAM.
  
  But let's say that's the case. Costs are an issue. That means the CPU has the slower RAM. If so, that completely throws out my above points regarding in-game benefits of a hex-core. Older system designs used slow memory for the CPU because it didn't do much. If you are now considering heavy processing of things like AI, animation, and the like, using slow RAM will bottleneck the system. You'd be gimping the in-game benefits of using a hex-core.
  
  Basically DDR3 in a 2012/13 system would be laughable.

• double AMD processor - Does this even need to be discussed? The idea of dual GPU's in a console isn't silly ... it's retarded.

In summary, some aspects of this system are laughable if not retarded when placed in a vacuum ... and when taken as a whole ... as an actual architecture and not just a spec list ... it gets even worse.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Well Crytec is a developer...and they kinda know how to make purty graphics...they want 8 GB

8 gigs would actually be more likely than some of these GPU solutions I keep seeing.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

Well Crytec is a developer...and they kinda know how to make purty graphics...they want 8 GB

Crytek should shut the fuck up and make PC games first and console games second. Let's see them utilize 8 GB of RAM on a PC before they bitch for more RAM on consoles.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Wait, wait, hold up, DDR3 main ram?

What?

They would go with slower RAM than what's actually in their systems right now for main RAM?

I refuse to believe.

 

[Raistlin]

I still feel like a HEXCore CPU and Ferrariesqe GPU is pointless is the RAM Sucks.

DING DING DING

 

[onken]

If Microsoft announced they were putting in 4, there'd be a thread full of people bitching about it not having 8, if it had 8 people would want 16, 16 for 32, so on and so forth, all from people with no development experience whatsoever making arguments predicated on the prices for PC RAM sticks and wanting bigger numbers.

this is neogaf dude.gif

A couple of people would, the vast majority wouldn't. 4gb is definitely what most people want.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

WTF? I wasn't talking to you, I was referring to the specs in the OP.


The specs make zero sense, especially as an aggregate - and I'm not referring to power. If those were the specs you're referring to however ... okay ... I'll bite:

My first thought was that they were earlier SDK specs, and not the final of the console.

No need to get irritable. I assumed (always a good decision) that you were deriding the fairly modest upgrade these specs would lead to.

I don't think anyone actually expects it to use stock DDR3.

 

[Raistlin]

Developers will 100% go with multiplatform games. Sony has the luxury of making uber powerful hardware since their 1st party rolls deep. However, I fear what this will mean for third party developors. Whats the incentive for other devs to push one powerful machine while the others aren't doing anything.

If the general architectures are similar (isn't a huge imbalance in threads, GPU's support similar feature sets, etc), it's quite easy to make scalable engines.

Just looks how PC games operate on various hardware. While no, they may not take advantage of particular strengths of a given system, adding higher resolution, better AA/AF, more effects, higher framerates, etc. are all easy to implement and make a notable difference.

 

[poppabk]

What's with the obsession with the amount of memory? I don't get why that is the thing people focus on.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

What's with the obsession with the amount of memory? I don't get why that is the thing people focus on.

Easy to grasp.

No need to understand SPU's, ALU's, clocks, frequencies, or other fine minutia of hardware development.

 

[Raistlin]

My first thought was that they were earlier SDK specs, and not the final of the console.

No need to get irritable. I assumed (always a good decision) that you were deriding the fairly modest upgrade these specs would lead to.

I don't think anyone actually expects it to use stock DDR3.

I'm not irritable. If anything, your drenching sarcasm made you look irritated.


I will ask one thing of you however. Kindly explain how making an assumption is 'always a good decision'?

;p

 

[DopeyFish]

DING DING DING

unless it has 8 interconnected memory controllers

which could potentially be for every cpu core and gpu core 1 per every 2 Gb module

your theoretical memory speed could be 8x to the pool... i think

*totally just talking out of my ass*

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I'm not irritable. If anything, your drenching sarcasm made you look irritated.


I will ask one thing of you however. Kindly explain how making an assumption is 'always a good decision'?

;p

I'm an ass man.

 

[planar1280]

If you think about it. 6 Cores vs 3 is twice as the number of processors. 2 GB is a lot for the console considering it will be 4 times the ram and newer tech ram than Xbox 360. We may not even know but perhaps AMD GPUS might themselves have 1 GB each

 

[Raistlin]

Wait, wait, hold up, DDR3 main ram?

What?

They would go with slower RAM than what's actually in their systems right now for main RAM?

I refuse to believe.

ummm ...

Spoiler

last time I checked, 360 uses 512MB GDDR3 RAM clocked at 700 MHz

I'm an ass man.

Me too ... and legs

 

[childplease]

Something tells me my gaming pc now will be more powerful then any of the next gen consoles.

Either way I welcome new consoles maybe finally I will get non gimped games ported to the PC.

The better the specs on the new consoles the higher they can raise the graphical bar on the console to pc ports of the future.

 

[Raistlin]

What's with the obsession with the amount of memory? I don't get why that is the thing people focus on.

As Thunder Monkey stated, it's one of the easier specs to grasp ... even though most don't really understand the finer details of how its used in an overall architecture. Basically it's an easy target in spec wars.

There is however some truth to it. Particularly towards the end of a system's life, RAM almost always ends up being one of the more obvious bottlenecks. This gen however, the pain was felt even earlier (arguably at launch).


With all this said, the more serious concern here is the idea of using DDR3. That would be crippling.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Something tells me my gaming pc now will be more powerful then any of the next gen consoles.

Either way I welcome new consoles maybe finally I will get non gimped games ported to the PC.

The better the specs on the new consoles the higher they can raise the graphical bar on the console to pc ports of the future.

Gaming PC's have always had more brute force power than any console. Given overhead it takes that much more power just to run at parity. A 2012 gaming PC will have more power than either the Loop or WiiU, while both will be pushed much farther than a similar era PC.

Building a new console now using parts from 2009 should theoretically get you prettier games than came out this year on the PC. If developers invest the proper time and money.

And this brings us to the biggest hindrance on the push for bigger and better. Few can afford to use it.

 

[regs]

I'm going to call it on 2gb system 1gb vram

 

[Raistlin]

I'm going to call it on 2gb system 1gb vram

If the assumption is this has a 'usable' hex-core for actual gaming benefits ... the idea of stepping back to split RAM-pools makes even less sense than it would have for 360.


Which reminds me, PS3 not having unified memory was a pretty shitty architecture decision. Unfortunately it appears that was forced due to the rush to find a GPU solution.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

My prediction is that the Xbox3 wont be geared towards gamers (and all youse gaffers will CRAH)

Oh it'll have a respectable processor, a decent GPU, and a healthy dose of extra ram, but the thing will be modern existing tech, not cutting edge. It'll be priced slightly lower, definitely less than $400 for the cheapest SKU, and be focused around using the Kinect (2.0?) as a living room centerpiece. It'll have a sizable HD focused around downloading media, exchanging pictures, but more importantly, purchasing living room apps. MS will attempt to do what apple TV could not and take over the living room using the xbox brand and kinect functionality as a trojan horse. They will attempt to start a new cheap app market centered around micro-content in the living room. It'll also attempt to replace cable as the standard provider for movies and shows. Gaming will of course be emphasized each year at E3 or other trade events, but really they'll be focusing more on ways to make money through digitial distribution of products other than games. The thing will have full cross compatibility with windows 8 and allow seamless media sharing between multiple devices. Windows phones and laptops will automatically sync folders you want to share between devices when within your home network. There will be apps that work on both phones and on the Xbox3 (via kinect). You'll be able to communicate and share content with other people on the xbox live network through their phone, computer, or console.

That...is my prediction. *removes tinfoil hat*

I can put a healthy bet on this being exactly what happens.

You will still have your Gears and COD games But the new xbox will be considered an entertainment machine and console second, at least untill they stop gaining traction in that market.

Later in the consoles life you will see some amazing gaming releases, but they are going to try their damnedest to that casual money first. Im guessing the expect Sony to price themselves out the early market again, even if they dont go as far as $599 this time and launch in the same year. That way, by the time sony begins to gain traction, they can start dropping those exclusive bombs to get the xbox hardcore back on board.

 

[teh_pwn]

Hoping that the video RAM is AT LEAST 2 GB. I may get the console, but more interested in lead engines designed on something that can be improved easily with PC hardware. Currently we have awesome PC hardware but only 2-3 games reasonably use it.

The only way I see multi GPU is if there is some sort of sweet spot with design cost, performance and heat. If drivers are built for multi-GPU, they scale well because GPUs are more more inherently parallel than CPUs.

 

[bhlaab]

I hope all you "2gb is pathetic" gaffers realize that in 5 years, anything they put in a current console is going to feel archaic and out of date.

You'd spend $599 on a beast in 2012 and then bitch and moan that the next gen is taking to long to get here and that your current consoles are obsolete in 2017.

Then in 2025, the arachnids invade and all hell breaks loose, but that's a discussion for another thread.

I know all of this to be true because that is exactly what's happening right now. Except the arachnids part. That comes later.

4-6gb of ram is more than decent right now. 512mb was pathetic even back in 2005, and the low memory ceiling has been directly affecting the way games are made for years now (Compare Morrowind's completely seamless exterior environment to New Vegas having to cut The Strip down into 4 different chunks separated by loading screens)

 

[Raistlin]

I can put a healthy bet on this being exactly what happens.

You will still have your Gears and COD games But the new xbox will be considered an enterprising machine and console second, at least untill they stop gaining traction in that market.

Later in the consoles life you will see some amazing gaming releases, but they are going to try their damnedest to that casual money first. Im guessing the expect Sony to price themselves out the early market again, even if they dont go as far as $599 this time and launch in the same year.

I don't see why going after multimedia/set-top box features inherently means the gaming will cater to casuals.

It's two totally different use-cases that likely yield little in a Venn diagram. Casual and hardcore gamers alike utilize the multimedia aspects of these machines. And there will be even less crossover as the utility of the features and services improve.

 

[bhlaab]

Can't stop laughing at these 'omg 2 GB comments.'Not even the most hardcore PC games utilize over 1.5 GB of RAM right now. Battlefield 3 on Ultra on Caspian Border, Skyrim, Just Cause 2, The Witcher 2 etc...NONE of them use even close to 2 GB of RAM. And remember, Windows has huge overhead vs what consoles use in terms of OS RAM space etc.

Hey why don't these PC ports of games that were designed for consoles use a ton of ram????

2 GB of RAM is more than most devs will know what to do with.

If the human body were to travel faster than 35 miles per hour it would surely perish!

 

[teh_pwn]

While PC games don't use 2 GB of video RAM, it doesn't mean it couldn't be used. I'm sure Naughty Dog could cram in tons of textures if given the hardware.

 

[bill0527]

I wonder, will it still come with a standard DVD drive?

Yeah I'm more interested in this than I am the amount of RAM.

Will it be Blu ray, DVD, or will Microsoft go balls out and make it a digital download only console?(not likely). Or will Microsoft have multiple SKUs? Something like a digital download only Xbox with no optical medium and a large hard drive, along with a DVD drive SKU, and maybe a SKU that's $50-$100 more of you want a blu ray drive.

And will a hard drive be standard? It's almost a necessity in the digital download era, but Microsoft seems to be selling the shit out of those 4gb Xbox 360s.

 

[guek]

4-6gb of ram is more than decent right now. 512mb was pathetic even back in 2005, and the low memory ceiling has been directly affecting the way games are made for years now (Compare Morrowind's completely seamless exterior environment to New Vegas having to cut The Strip down into 4 different chunks separated by loading screens)

thus cementing the fact that you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to console hardware.

 

[teh_pwn]

Yeah I'm more interested in this than I am the amount of RAM.

Will it be Blu ray, DVD, or will Microsoft go balls out and make it a digital download only console?(not likely). Or will Microsoft have multiple SKUs? Something like a digital download only Xbox with no optical medium and a large hard drive, along with a DVD drive SKU, and maybe a SKU that's $50-$100 more of you want a blu ray drive.

And will a hard drive be standard? It's almost a necessity in the digital download era, but Microsoft seems to be selling the shit out of those 4gb Xbox 360s.

I will be extremely disappointed if they use standard DVD. Really tired of gimped compressed textures so games can fit in tiny discs.

 

[Raistlin]

Hoping that the video RAM is AT LEAST 2 GB. I may get the console, but more interested in lead engines designed on something that can be improved easily with PC hardware. Currently we have awesome PC hardware but only 2-3 games reasonably use it.

'AT LEAST 2 GB' of VRAM? Only the top ATI cards and like one custom nVidia 580 support that, and its only benefit is for running multiple monitors or super high-res 30" displays.

Given consoles games will be looking to run 1080p (or who knows, maybe even 720p), that's beyond overkill. Even for high-end PC gaming we won't see developers targeting that for years.

The only way I see multi GPU is if there is some sort of sweet spot with design cost, performance and heat. If drivers are built for multi-GPU, they scale well because GPUs are more more inherently parallel than CPUs.

Since there is nothing in the PC world that gives the impression such a sweet-spot exists at this time, I find it highly unlikely.