The hell is wrong with you?
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Saddam Hussein bonded with American soldiers in final days
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
The hell is wrong with you?
Monocle
Member
You'll get flack for this because the correct way to use spoiler tags is to warn people what series/scene/whatever you're going to spoil, and use the tags to conceal the sensitive content. You did it in reverse.
Negan in Walking Dead
KenzinFive
Member
Precisely. The dude was a charismatic monster, and the soldiers were swayed by his charm. Don't think for a second that Saddam wouldn't have used his connection to the guards to try and find a way to escape if he could.
Not intending to sound rude, I take issue with how ignorant this statement is. Stockholm Syndrome is a real thing, and this seems to be a derivative of that.
Soldiers are people, violent dictators are people. Put people around each other all day everyday, and eventually you start to ignore the bad things and see them as human especially if you hold to the idea that people- even and maybe especially, fighting men and women-don't necessarily want to kill other people (barring a psychopath) and will go to lengths to avoid it if possible. People like Saddam are charismatic, manipulative, and sadistic, often overt but sometimes covert/subconscious, but if you are immersed with someone for long enough, little by little you don't notice.
People get in trouble when they think "that would never happen to me because I'm strong enough."
Rotating guards would avoid this.
Assad is just another Saddam . The same thing that happened in Iraq is what's happening in Syria. Same thing would happen in Egypt or Saudi Arabia. I constantly see people pushing for us to stop supporting the Saudis and egyption rulers. Unless you are going to push some sort of long term marshal plan or occupation and forced constitution like post war Japan then as callous as it is we are better off letting the dictators rule no matter the human rights violations.
I'm just saying democracy doesn't work everywhere. I think we have even seen it's massive failings in the USA since it can bring to power someone like Trump who then finds ways to corrupt it.
Spladam
Member
Beyond the entire Vietnam fiasco?
Vietnam didn't ignite the whole region.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Vietnam didn't destabilize the entire Middle East and lead to groups like ISIS
It's not even close
LordKasual
Banned
this is the power of charisma and personality
how do you think he became so powerful in the first place
how do you think he became so powerful in the first place
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
He's someone who by all accounts was extremely guarded and aggressive his entire life. Kind of understand how he'd be more cordial facing death after being captured.
astroturfing
Member
interesting story, thanks for posting.
hmm, well at least this is better than Abu Ghraib style treatment. the monster wasn't a threat to anyone anymore and he was old.. also he was about to be hanged so.. no reason to treat him like shit. i wouldn't judge anyone involved.
hmm, well at least this is better than Abu Ghraib style treatment. the monster wasn't a threat to anyone anymore and he was old.. also he was about to be hanged so.. no reason to treat him like shit. i wouldn't judge anyone involved.
I would think this sort of thing is pretty common whenever a prisoner is important enough to be assigned a specified guard detail that interacts with them day to day. Especially with these sort of charismatic dictator figures. He developed these skills bonding with his own men when he was developing a cult of personality around himself with them, of course he'd be able to win over a few guards. And it's only human to be unable to see someone as a pure monster after spending that much time with them, especially when their crimes are so distant to yourself.
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
Yeh I'm not really surprised by this. Honestly at the stage Saddam was at, there was no reason not to be nice to the guards surrounding him, and maybe at least be treated with respect.
PdotMichael
Banned
The fact that you put it under the "military history" umbrella is telling enough.
Can Crusher
Banned
Hussein wasn't more evil than say, Bush for example.
MarkMclovin
Member
Starring gaf's favourite, Shia LeBeouf and Idris Elba.
Melkezadek
Member
How can anyone say this?
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
You really can't fucking believe this?
DiipuSurotu
Banned
I would watch the hell out of this movie. Mel Gibson as Saddam, please.
Who's doing that? Pointing out that humans are humans, can Form bonds with anyone out of misguided sense of connection, and a charismatic manipulator can leverage that to their advantage is not sympathizing with a mass murderer.
Saddam was a monster through and through and this story is a scary testament to how vulnerable and naive we can be for believing that there is good in all people. Saddam wouldn't have hesitated to have those guards killed, I'm sure of it.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Holy shit. Saddam straight up Indoctrinated the guards around him.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I was under the impression all our grandpas were like this. That said, I'm not surprised in the least people grew close to him and even had tears in their eyes as he was hanged. We are all human beings afterall, and sometimes no matter how terrible a person truly is, you ended up forming some kind of strange bond or closeness with that person as you experienced them, not as what you've heard or know about their history.
I think this speaks very well of our soldiers.
crisdecuba
Member
Who exactly is sympathizing? Any quotes? Are you using "sympathizing" correctly?
The Hamburglar
Banned
relax guy, put your feet up.
You are officially a crazy person.
Shake Appeal
Member
This is true of every single war criminal and despot, and the U.S. will never allow it. It's sad.
That's uh, an interesting outlook on life.
Matrix XII
Member
Fascinating story to me, thanks for sharing this.
Herbspiceguy
Member
His and his sons execution, as well of of Khadaffi's, always seemed unnecessary and hypocritical to me.
His sons were killed in a firefight, were they not?
tearsintherain
Member
You do realize it was the Iraqi interim government who decided what to do with Saddam and not the US. The US soldiers were just guarding him during the Iraqi trial.
and yeah, interesting story. I'm sure there were probably similar stories around the Nazi war crime trials, people in power and sociopaths tend to be extremely charismatic. Stuff like Joker and Harley Quinn have nothing on real life manipulations prisoners have done to guards, prison workers, etc. Its well known that CEOs have a much higher incidence rate of sociopathy than the general population.
HisImperialMajesty
Member
While Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator responsible for over 250,000 deaths in his various purges and genocides, the Iraq War claimed an estimated 150,000 - 600,000 Iraqi civilian lives in the first four years, over 5000 American soldiers, 30,000 Iraq soldiers and lead to the birth of ISIS which lead to countless more deaths. (Source: Wiki)
So, when America intervened in the name of "weapons of mass destruction', "freedom" and "democracy", the death toll and cost of human misery was much higher than anything Saddam Hussein did himself. We're not even counting the deaths from the War in Afghanistan, which was at least somewhat more justified. So yes, Bush was a monster, even though he might seem like a kindly painting Grandpa now. Or at the very least, the American political-military establishment that empowered Bush to destroy countless lives and continues to perpetuate human misery, leading to a cyclical rise in more terrorism around the world, is a monster.
I try my best not overuse words like "evil" & "monster" because it takes away from the fact that these vile pieces of shit are still human beings at the end of the day. (Making their crimes even worse in my eyes)
Dictators & Facists show us the extremes of those negative human qualities we all share like being arrogant, cold, calculating, manipulative, detached emotionally....and a very solid liar.
I don't doubt in his last days Saddam got close & informal with the Soldiers but I'm pretty sure it wasn't entirely absent of an ulterior motive.
At the end of the day, he was flesh & blood like the rest of us, even if he has a ton of deaths on his hands.
And in hindsight, he may have been keeping a lot of the instability of the region in check as a byproduct of his dictatorship.
Dictators & Facists show us the extremes of those negative human qualities we all share like being arrogant, cold, calculating, manipulative, detached emotionally....and a very solid liar.
I don't doubt in his last days Saddam got close & informal with the Soldiers but I'm pretty sure it wasn't entirely absent of an ulterior motive.
At the end of the day, he was flesh & blood like the rest of us, even if he has a ton of deaths on his hands.
And in hindsight, he may have been keeping a lot of the instability of the region in check as a byproduct of his dictatorship.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Meaning?
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
He was a master manipulator that could charm when he wanted to.
It's important to note one part that isn't bolded in the OP, that these were all servicemen from working class backgrounds. They likely weren't officers, probably had not received any higher education, they probably joined the military right out of high school (or while in it), and nothing at home would have prepared them for this. These men would not have been prepared mentally to deal with a master of manipulation.
I still can't believe the Dujail Massacre is what got him executed. Of all the stuff he supposedly did, that was what got him?
It's important to note one part that isn't bolded in the OP, that these were all servicemen from working class backgrounds. They likely weren't officers, probably had not received any higher education, they probably joined the military right out of high school (or while in it), and nothing at home would have prepared them for this. These men would not have been prepared mentally to deal with a master of manipulation.
I still can't believe the Dujail Massacre is what got him executed. Of all the stuff he supposedly did, that was what got him?
HisImperialMajesty
Member
Yes, I doubt Saddam Hussein was a psychopath. He was a politician first and foremost, and committed his atrocities in order to consolidate power in his country. When America invaded the country on the most tenuous of reasons, it unleashed a bloodbath in the region that is now proving to be many times worse than Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein's Baath Party is based on Arab nationalism and socialism. ISIL is based on Islamist fundamentalism of the most extreme kind.
Shake Appeal
Member
Yes, but the U.S. has opposed the very existence of the International Criminal Court and is probably the single biggest obstacle to it being taken more seriously.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Don't ever underestimate the power of people who can influence. If he can influence an entire nation to devote their well being to him, twelve naive yes-man soldiers are easy.
Amazing story though.
HisImperialMajesty
Member
This doesn't just happen to yes-men or people in far away countries though. Look at Trump. He swindled half the population of the 'greatest nation on earth" with one-liners, platitudes, half baked promises and a bunch of sexist and racist comments.
I know, I was in Iraq in 2008 and I heard stories.
Still doesn't change what I said though.
Armoured Titan
Member
Great, thanks a lot for that spoiler.
Always-honest
Banned
yeah i read about this. Guy was impressed him. Thought he seemed like a reasonable guy.
Even to the point where he was questioning his duty/ mission, i believe.
Hard to say. I've met some pretty crazy people in my life. They were also human.
Doesn't mean they didn't do some horrible shit.
Even to the point where he was questioning his duty/ mission, i believe.
Hard to say. I've met some pretty crazy people in my life. They were also human.
Doesn't mean they didn't do some horrible shit.