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[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Square Enix's long-running SaGa series is known for having a relatively high difficulty level compared to other JRPG series. This is owed not only to its balancing, but to its complex (at times even borderline cryptic) game systems that take time to get the hang of. In a recent interview with Denfaminicogamer, SaGa series' creator Akitoshi Kawazu talked about his views on balancing difficulty.

Asked whether establishing SaGa as a high-difficulty series was intentional, Kawazu comments that he bases his approach on educational theory, going beyond game design. "I believe that to help a person grow, you have to provide them with challenges that fall somewhere between making them give up and making them bored. That way, their achievements keep growing."

However, Kawazu's answer is not to aim for a game that's right in the middle of these two extremes, as this will result in having "both players who give up on your game because it's too hard and those who drop it because they're bored." While the SaGa creator is fine with people finding his games too difficult to continue playing, he feels strongly about not wanting to bore them. As such – he errs on the side of making things challenging.

"I don't want people saying 'This game's too easy and boring, I'm done,' so I play up the challenges to avoid that kind of reaction. That's probably why so many people give up. But personally, I'd prefer someone to give up than say they're bored. If it's so hard they quit, that's fine."

Kawazu is conscious of this even when designing difficulty levels, as he is against adding "easy" difficulty settings to his games and shows dislike for them even as a gamer. "I'd never choose to play easy mode. I would feel like the developers are calling me out like 'Oh, you picked the easy mode, huh?' I hate that. I think normal and hard modes are enough."

On the other hand, while Kawazu acknowledges that SaGa games tend to make players stop and go "Wait, what's going on here?" at first, he notes that the difficulty revolves around understanding the systems and using the right formations and techniques. Thus, bosses are, in principle, designed to be beatable and fair (although the same can't be said of random enemies, which can wipe you out in a beat).

SaGa series creator would rather players give up on his games for being too hard than risk being boring - AUTOMATON WEST

Akitoshi Kawazu, creator of Square Enix's SaGa series, shares insights about his approach to balancing difficulty.

automaton-media.com

 

[Sojiro]

I personally agree with the mindset. While getting stuck in a game is frustrating it still gives you a challenge to overcome and accomplish. Being bored with a game is definitely the biggest reason to power it off. On another note, man did I love Romancing Saga 2 Revenge of the seven, I ended up enjoying that way more than I thought I would and one of these days I may give expert a try.

 

[Hudo]

Akitoshi Kawazu is one of the very few OGs left at Square. And his games were always "take it or leave it", even as far back as the skill/level system in FF2, which he was responsible for. Can't say that his games always gel with me, but the guy has earned my respect.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I don't get why options is ever the problem. You can have it hard and recommended by default, but why hate on gamers that want to enjoy your game on a lower difficulty?
"Artists" get too entitled imo. Publishers need to step in at times.

 

[Moochi]

They should put him in charge of Final Fantasy. Chasing all audiences has wrecked that franchise.

 

[Loomy]

Akitoshi Kawazu is one of the very few OGs left at Square. And his games were always "take it or leave it", even as far back as the skill/level system in FF2, which he was responsible for. Can't say that his games always gel with me, but the guy has earned my respect.

I still like the FF2 system. Shields are broken in that game.

They should put him in charge of Final Fantasy. Chasing all audiences has wrecked that franchise.

FF has always been the accessible Square franchise. Alienating people by making it it unnecessarily difficult isn't going to help them.

 

[San Dan Glokta]

If the game is successful it means that the players are voting by their wallets and saying that they agree so cool

 

[Sooner]

I don't get why options is ever the problem. You can have it hard and recommended by default, but why hate on gamers that want to enjoy your game on a lower difficulty?
"Artists" get too entitled imo. Publishers need to step in at times.

I'm glad we have certain developers who still don't fall to this flawed argument.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I'm glad we have certain developers who still don't fall to this flawed argument.

and what is flawed about having more ways to play? The integrity of the trophies? who gives a shit.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

and what is flawed about having more ways to play? The integrity of the trophies? who gives a shit.

It's ok if a game isn't for you, there's a thousand+ others you can go enjoy.
There's really no reason to be upset about someone crafting an experience to be experienced a certain way.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

It's ok if a game isn't for you, there's a thousand+ others you can go enjoy.
There's really no reason to be upset about someone crafting an experience to be experienced a certain way.

and no one is taking that away . . . if I can ignore gay sex scene options, you can ignore difficulty options that some may like.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Only without the refunds.

 

[Aldynes]

Oh boy... have you guys heard of a little RPG by the name of "Unlimited Saga" ?

This cursed thing.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

and no one is taking that away

The intended experience being also avaliable doesn't matter, the intended experience is simply the only experience and that's fine, it's also fine that you don't like this and you can go somewhere else to get what you want.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

The intended experience being also avaliable doesn't matter, the intended experience is simply the only experience and that's fine, it's also fine that you don't like this and you can go somewhere else to get what you want.

or you could have both . . . you've given zero reasons why having the option is a problem. Do you hate that new Khazan game cause it has an Easy mode? Is it ruining all the souls peoples experience and getting trashed everywhere? . . .

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

or you could have both . . . you've given zero reasons why having the option is a problem.

I don't have to give you a reason because it's not about me and I don't speak for the developer, but it sounds like this creator simply doesn't want you to have both because they want everyone to experience the same thing; it is what it is, move on and get what you want somewhere else.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I don't have to give you a reason because it's not about me and I don't speak for the developer, but it sounds like this creator simply doesn't want you to have both because they want everyone to experience the same thing; it is what it is, move on and get what you want somewhere else.

So no rational reasons, we're back to artists being too entitled like I said. Got it.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

we're back to artists being too entitled

The only ones being entitled are the people who think they are entitled to have every experience tailored to their needs, instead of just simply going somewhere else.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

The only ones being entitled are the people who think they are entitled to have every experience tailored to their needs, instead of just simply going somewhere else.

and publishers have fiduciary responsibilities . . .

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

and publishers have fiduciary responsibilities

Publishers have no obligation to fund everything that's pitched to them, if it is such a problem for them, they can pass on the idea and publish something else instead.

 

[StueyDuck]

difficulty != fun

great game design = fun.

 

[Sooner]

and what is flawed about having more ways to play? The integrity of the trophies? who gives a shit.

Who said anything about trophies? A trophy list can make you beat the game on the hardest difficulty.

I believe games should be built as intended, whether that's difficult or not.

 

[RSLAEV]

From what I can remember every Saga and Saga adjacent game that I've played has only been "hard" because the mechanics were obtuse and counter-intuitive. It didn't feel challenging, it felt un-fun

 

[kur07]

This guy gets it. The first RPG I ever played was made by him.

Square should invest more in his work. His modern games have too low production values, looking like your generic budget anime 3D game.

 

[Super Lemon Drop]

Difficulty for the sake of it isn't appealing to me.

 

[Hudo]

Oh boy... have you guys heard of a little RPG by the name of "Unlimited Saga" ?

This cursed thing.

Soundtrack was pretty dope, tho.

 

[Knightime_X]

Being too hard without any give isn't any better than someone getting bored.
They can still end up bored because the game is too hard.

Sure, they can always go play something else, but them buying someone else's game isn't necessarily a good way to make money for your game.

 

[IAmRei]

well, balancing difficulty and interesting gameplay, also hard. the game that too hard will also turn off some people imo.
yeah, I know some people only plays because it's hard as well. it's very tricky tho

 

[Shifty1897]

I think the SaGa games are super interesting (and I am playing through SaGa Frontier 2 Remastered right now) but it does feel like the games were just designed by throwing ideas written on darts at a dartboard at the wall and whatever stuck is what they went with. Sometimes the game design just feels half baked and unnecessary.

 

[rkofan87]

then give them a easy mode

 

[rkofan87]

I'm glad we have certain developers who still don't fall to this flawed argument.

why is it flawed??

 

[Hudo]

Maybe I should play the Romancing SaGa 2 Remake. I've heard people like it quite a lot.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

I think a game should explain its rules clearly enough.
One thing is, say, a puzzle game that lets you understand its rules and mechanics through trial and error in contained situations, one mechanic at a time, or maybe several mechanics but in limited stages.
Another thing is a game that lets you go on fumbling in complete confusion, only allowing you to somehow grasp the very basics (and sometimes not even those), and then at one point expects you to have figured out mechanics that were never explained, or even hinted at, before, and to have pretty much mastered them.
I don't know how much the manuals for the SaGa games explained. But "it's hard to understand how it works" or "it's very obscure" should be no praise for a game. There's a reason, for example, why From Software used letters instead of abstruse symbols for stats when going from Demon's Souls to Dark Souls. There is absolutely no reason to not let the player understand something so basic in the plainest way possible.

I recently tried the Legend of Mana remaster and I dropped it pretty soon because the game makes a terrible job of explaining how it works and what the fuck you're supposed to do. Unfortunately Squaresoft went wild with such experiments after they established their rule in the second half of the PS1 era. Heck, so many Japanese devs went wild with them in the early 3D era, at large.
The SaGa Frontier games are beautiful, but I'm sure I'd never have the patience to figure them out by myself. And you shouldn't need the internet to understand how a game works. We could play tons of game long before the internet was a thing. Just make a good manual or tutorial, ffs.

 

[Labadal]

This is a classic mantra of his. Nothing new, as he has held this view for many years.

 

[Labadal]

Double post warning, but some of the newer SaGa games actually allow you to choose difficulty options, so I don't know why people are butthurt.

Alos, someone making a game the way THEY want doesn't make them entitled. That's the shittiest argument one can come up with ( a moot argument now that there are difficulty options). You don't like it, don't buy it. It's been this way for every game, ever.

 

[saintjules]

One of the hardest SaGa Bosses I played against was the Ring Lord boss in SaGa Frontier 1.

To nail randomized combos on this boss was a nightmare at times. And it had to be level 3 and above.

 

[Danjin44]

I always support creative freedom, devs are free to design the game however they want, that how it should be.

 

[March Climber]

Gamer_By_Proxy I agree with most of what you're saying, and due to that I normally recommend people just play a PC version of a game whenever a dev forces a difficulty on the player. People will create an easy difficulty mod if needed, and they will do so pretty quickly after release.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Gamer_By_Proxy I agree with most of what you're saying, and due to that I normally recommend people just play a PC version of a game whenever a dev forces a difficulty on the player. People will create an easy difficulty mod if needed, and they will do so pretty quickly after release.

Yea, I haven't really done modding with my new gaming pc. But that's an option if you have the know how. I got to the point with souls games that I'm only considering the ones with an easy mode now. I have a toddler and newborn and can usually only game like 20-30 min at a time. I don't want to be stuck at some boss for over an hour and run back to the boss over and over. I've decided to just go back to a souls game I haven't finished if there is no easy mode. I don't need more hard ones.

 

[Oberstein]

Oh boy... have you guys heard of a little RPG by the name of "Unlimited Saga" ?

This cursed thing.

And that's a shame, because the OST is extraordinary... but nobody listened to it :-/

 

[March Climber]

Yea, I haven't really done modding with my new gaming pc. But that's an option if you have the know how. I got to the point with souls games that I'm only considering the ones with an easy mode now. I have a toddler and newborn and can usually only game like 20-30 min at a time. I don't want to be stuck at some boss for over an hour and run back to the boss over and over. I've decided to just go back to a souls game I haven't finished if there is no easy mode. I don't need more hard ones.

The funny thing about all of this is that even two of the hardest games of all time have an easy difficulty option.

 

[EntelechyFuff]

RPGs like this are a little different than hard, reflex-based action games like Ninja Gaiden, so I don't think that's a useful comparison.

Someone may never have the reflexes or reaction times necessary to beat Ninja Gaiden, but beating a SaGa game is a matter of understanding the mechanics, your tools, and the expectations of the game scenarios. These games are challenging mostly because they are obtuse and incorporate some amount of randomization, but even someone who "needs" an easy mode can theoretically learn and respond appropriately.

I remember staying up late for hours fighting the final boss of T260G's campaign in Saga Frontier 1 when I was teen, getting my ass handed to me, and--eventually--barely skating to victory by the skin of my teeth. It's one of my most vivid gaming memories. More recently, I played the remaster, and rocked up to the same boss with a team of killers, the best skills, knowledge of the most powerful combos, and top-tier equipment, and I squished him like a bug. I didn't "get good", I just have a more complete knowledge of what resources are available to me as a player and how to acquire them. But those same resources were always present in the game, even back when I was limping along on the struggle bus back in the late 90's.

The more I think about it, the more these games have in common with say...a dense academic textbook. Some people are naturally going bounce off that, or give up partway through. Even so, mastering the "text" is not a matter of skill, but a factor of persistent, curious investigation and increasing familiarity.