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[Urban Scholar]

I really thought moonlight knight had more swagger than tuxedo mask. Even if it was short lived.

 

[Hitokage]

It's all usually based within the same premise and for one reason or another does something different to end at a pretty similar result.

Except not. The anime and manga are significantly different in both content and tone, and not just from a lack of monsters of the week in the manga. The Dark Kingdom story proceeds and ends differently in the manga than in the anime.

Spoiler

Usagi attempts suicide. Queen Metalia takes center stage in the manga. There is no reset or desire for one. Usagi accepts her identity as Princess Serenity. The anime has to introduce a repair arc to allow the story to continue to where the manga went.

The Black Moon story is probably closest to the manga but is carried out differently. Sailor Moon S has a different ending than in the manga.

Spoiler

Saturn actually destroys the world. Professor Tomoe dies.

Supers is almost completely different from the manga.

Spoiler

What Nehelenia starts at the very end of the anime she had already done at the beginning of the manga and was winning. The anime diverged so much that they had to retread the story to set up Stars.

Stars isn't even in the same realm of what the manga does.

Spoiler

Starlights are minor players. There is no light of hope. Extremely fatalistic conclusion in the Galactic Cauldron.

To turn this around, let's look at PGSM:

Spoiler

Sailor V is already around at the start. Same introduction stories for Usagi, Ami, and Rei as the anime and manga. Motoki still works for Crown. Everyone's looking for the Silver Crystal, the moon princess, or human energy falling short of those. Same four generals. Somebody good gets turned evil. Usagi is revealed to be Princess Serenity after the Silver Crystal appears from her teardrop. Mamoru becomes evil, and Usagi has to whack him. Usagi uses Silver Crystal to hit the reset button.

Same as the anime.

And I honestly walked into PGSM expecting an Arc 1 play by play with some fluff to fill the episode count. I walked out 51 episodes later being glad it did it's own thing.

Oh yeah. 49 episodes. Act Zero is kinda okay, but the Special Act is shit.

I guess what I'm saying here to anybody who hasn't watched PGSM who is a fan of the series to do that ASAP. Leave all you know about Sailor Moon at the door and look at it as a fresh experience. You'll appreciate it more.

I disagree. You'll appreciate what it does differently more being more familiar with what the anime did instead, particularly the massive shift in outlook.

 

[Urban Scholar]

^ urge to read manga sky rocketing.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Oops, I meant Sailor Stars never made it to US, my bad on using poor words.

ALSO IT LOOKS LIKE HITOKAGE IS HERE OMG

 

[Triple Da G.O.D!]

Except not.

I guess what I mean by the end when I think about

Spoiler

Crystal Tokyo

and not the endings to the different versions. No matter what happens

Spoiler

Crystal Tokyo

is always the implied end result. All the nastiness that takes place in Sailor Moon is always proceeded by the implied Happy Ever After End. But because of all the turns that Sailor Moon takes in all its various forms it becomes questionable how you get to the implied and alleged end.

Oh yeah. 49 episodes. Act Zero is kinda okay, but the Special Act is shit.

The Special Act did seem kind of out of place but I think it did what it was supposed to do and bring some kind of closure to PGSM. Well needed closure.

I disagree. You'll appreciate what it does differently more being more familiar with what the anime did instead, particularly the massive shift in outlook.

At the same time leaving what you know about the series and appreciating it as a good Toku isn't a bad thing. But I will agree that the only times having that information coming in is when the turns start to happen. However, it still can be appreciated as something completely standalone from anything else Sailor Moon.

 

[Hitokage]

I guess what I mean by the end when I think about

Spoiler

Crystal Tokyo

and not the endings to the different versions. No matter what happens

Spoiler

Crystal Tokyo

is always the implied end result. All the nastiness that takes place in Sailor Moon is always proceeded by the implied Happy Ever After End. But because of all the turns that Sailor Moon takes in all its various forms it becomes questionable how you get to the implied and alleged end.

Spoiler

Only the Anime ends in a happily ever after leading up to Crystal Tokyo. Anime s1 ends in a reset button happily ever after just like PGSM. The manga ends with "for now we can be happy with Usagi and Mamoru getting married and setting up Crystal Tokyo, but eventually all must perish". Ok, maybe it isn't absolutely hopeless going forward, but Sailor Cosmos was sufficiently despondent about her prospects she pushed Sailor Moon to end star creation itself to avoid her fate.

 

[Triple Da G.O.D!]

Spoiler

Only the Anime ends in a happily ever after leading up to Crystal Tokyo. Anime s1 ends in a reset button happily ever after just like PGSM. The manga ends with "for now we can be happy with Usagi and Mamoru getting married and setting up Crystal Tokyo, but eventually all must perish".

Agreed. No matter what though they get there in whatever way they get there.

 

[Hitokage]

Agreed. No matter what though they get there in whatever way they get there.

Spoiler

Narrative ending in Crystal Tokyo is the same as narrative ending in a hopeless and incredibly costly battle between Sailor Cosmos and Sailor Chaos?

 

[KibblesBits]

Spoiler

Narrative ending in Crystal Tokyo is the same as narrative ending in a hopeless and incredibly costly battle between Sailor Cosmos and Sailor Chaos?

See this is where the disconnect happened for me and you can see it forming or having formed in other posters whether they've read the manga or just watched the show. It's a severe wtf moment along with all the other stuff in the final arc.

 

[cajunator]

Seen most of season one, but that was dubbed and edited to hell. ALso watched various episodes of the various seasons but I havent really had the time to really sit back and enjoy the whole run.

 

[VGChampion]

Never seen an episode. Never wanted to watch it when it was on air, got an interest in it a few years ago but never tried to track down any tapes / dvds and never really looked on YouTube. Still kind of interested to this day but still don't have motivation to check it out. :/

 

[Triple Da G.O.D!]

Spoiler

Narrative ending in Crystal Tokyo is the same as narrative ending in a hopeless and incredibly costly battle between Sailor Cosmos and Sailor Chaos?

Spoiler

I'd assume so with implied Happy End. The problem with the compare/contrast of events is that they'll always have to take into account the time travel element. Every time we hear about Crystal Tokyo there's always something that comes into conflict with implied Happy End is introduced. And it always seems to be set right in the end. In this case I have to assume Cosmos' interaction with Usagi is what set implied Happy End back on track with Cosmos taking the 2nd Chance to defeat Chaos in the future. Problem with any theory is only Naoko Takeuchi knows the answer to that or any question on the subject. So everything I say about implied Happy End is speculatory at best. But the evidence would lead you to believe that implied Happy End is the result no matter what. Which in the case of the manga may be left to the reader to decide.

 

[siddx]

My ex in high school was obsessed with this show. I agreed to watch it with her because I was young and dumb and full of cum and willing to do anything to get laid. Once we finally started having sex I refused to ever watch another episode. The things we subject ourselves to for sex when we are kids...

 

[Hitokage]

See this is where the disconnect happened for me and you can see it forming or having formed in other posters whether they've read the manga or just watched the show. It's a severe wtf moment along with all the other stuff in the final arc.

The manga is fairly fatalistic throughout, and a common theme is the idea that the existence of good calls forth the existence of evil.

Spoiler

In the manga, Usagi decides that despite this it is a battle worth waging. In PGSM, it takes a decidedly negative slant.

Spoiler

I'd assume so with implied Happy End. The problem with the compare/contrast of events is that they'll always have to take into account the time travel element. Every time we hear about Crystal Tokyo there's always something that comes into conflict with implied Happy End is introduced. And it always seems to be set right in the end. In this case I have to assume Cosmos' interaction with Usagi is what set implied Happy End back on track with Cosmos taking the 2nd Chance to defeat Chaos in the future. Problem with any theory is only Naoko Takeuchi knows the answer to that or any question on the subject. So everything I say about implied Happy End is speculatory at best. But the evidence would lead you to believe that implied Happy End is the result no matter what. Which in the case of the manga may be left to the reader to decide.

Spoiler

Except we're talking about a place and time far beyond that of Crystal Tokyo, and all Sailor Moon does is give Sailor Cosmos the determination to continue back. Also, from what Takeuchi has said about Cosmos, it can be said that she's Sailor Moon after finally being forced to accept the power she turns down in the present. From what the manga says, there may yet be victory for her, but it's only after she's lost everything else she knows and loves in the process.

 

[KibblesBits]

The manga is fairly fatalistic throughout, and a common theme is the idea that the existence of good calls forth the existence of evil.

Spoiler

In the manga, Usagi decides that despite this it is a battle worth waging. In PGSM, it takes a decidedly negative slant.

Mm, yes I do agree the manga was much more direct and overt with its fatalism but the final arc really caught me by surprise for some reason. I wasn't prepared!

 

[lethial]

I always thought this was a chick show like My Little Ponies and Gem.

 

[Hitokage]

A friend once told me he'd consumed basically everything in this franchise, and when I say everything, I do mean everything, having shown me a list of things that would probably take a diligent person six months to work through if not more. Dubs, subs, manga, dramas, albums, live action...the list goes on.

Speaking of which, the six Animate Cassette Collection sound dramas are definitely worth checking out. All but the third are highly comedic and tongue-in-cheek, and the first three were directed by Kunihiko Ikuhara.

These are separate from the R and S drama albums which are just audio rips of the first two movies.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Except not. The anime and manga are significantly different in both content and tone, and not just from a lack of monsters of the week in the manga. The Dark Kingdom story proceeds and ends differently in the manga than in the anime.

Spoiler

Usagi attempts suicide. Queen Metalia takes center stage in the manga. There is no reset or desire for one. Usagi accepts her identity as Princess Serenity. The anime has to introduce a repair arc to allow the story to continue to where the manga went.

The Black Moon story is probably closest to the manga but is carried out differently. Sailor Moon S has a different ending than in the manga.

Spoiler

Saturn actually destroys the world. Professor Tomoe dies.

Supers is almost completely different from the manga.

Spoiler

What Nehelenia starts at the very end of the anime she had already done at the beginning of the manga and was winning. The anime diverged so much that they had to retread the story to set up Stars.

Stars isn't even in the same realm of what the manga does.

Spoiler

Starlights are minor players. There is no light of hope. Extremely fatalistic conclusion in the Galactic Cauldron.

Wow, I've read the manga not too long after watching the show and I remember it being different than the anime, but I didn't remember it being that different. Will have to read it again some day.

 

[Triple Da G.O.D!]

Spoiler

Except we're talking about a place and time far beyond that of Crystal Tokyo, and all Sailor Moon does is give Sailor Cosmos the determination to continue back. Also, from what Takeuchi has said about Cosmos, it can be said that she's Sailor Moon after finally being forced to accept the power she turns down in the present. From what the manga says, there may yet be victory for her, but it's only after she's lost everything else she knows and loves in the process.

Spoiler

Implied Happy End in assumption encompasses anything that happens after the status quo of Crystal Tokyo is introduced within implied Happy End and that is the basis for all my speculation. And it's hard to really try to make sense of anything when there's no concrete proof of what actually took place when Cosmos went to her time to possibly put implied Happy End back on track. If that's even what happened. It could possibly be that Chaos wins no matter the interaction between Cosmos and Usagi and that the original events of Chaos destroying everything still stand as the possible THE END regardless of any positive intervention by any party. But with no actual evidence one way or the other we're left with a myriad of possibilities that even leave continued implied Happy End in question. But if I'm going to go with continued implied Happy End for Cosmos then she defeats Chaos and pulls a plot device out and puts things right. And this would be in tune with what usually happens when things go haywire. No matter what without a concrete answer about what really happens it always will be speculation.

 

[Hitokage]

Spoiler

Implied Happy End in assumption encompasses anything that happens after the status quo of Crystal Tokyo is introduced within implied Happy End and that is the basis for all my speculation. And it's hard to really try to make sense of anything when there's no concrete proof of what actually took place when Cosmos went to her time to possibly put implied Happy End back on track. If that's even what happened. It could possibly be that Chaos wins no matter the interaction between Cosmos and Usagi and that the original events of Chaos destroying everything still stand as the possible THE END regardless of any positive intervention by any party. But with no actual evidence one way or the other we're left with a myriad of possibilities that even leave continued implied Happy End in question. But if I'm going to go with continued implied Happy End for Cosmos then she defeats Chaos and pulls a plot device out and puts things right. And this would be in tune with what usually happens when things go haywire. No matter what without a concrete answer about what really happens it always will be speculation.

Spoiler

Regardless, it's a fairly different animal from the anime's highly optimistic and unambiguously happy ending.

 

[Damon Bennet]

I always prefered Minako to Usagi

i wish there was a sailor v anime.
Hmm maibe I'll read the sailor moon manga one day, I never did that.

 

[Triple Da G.O.D!]

Spoiler

Regardless, it's fairly different animal from the anime's highly optimistic and unambiguously happy ending.

Spoiler

I can confirm that's no lie at all. The anime always implied things would work out. The manga made you question if things would end up OK. And I think my feelings on the manga want me to believe that everything truly works out for them. Cause for all the shit they go through, they deserve a truly concrete happy ending just like the anime gives them.

 

[Dai101]

Huh? The Sailor Stars series was aired here in Poland.

Same here in Mexico, in fact whole Latinamerica and also a whole bunch of other countries:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWk1fTv4H8k

 

[Platy]

I wonder if you guys managed to watch to the last season, which involved the three characters to the left (who are girls pretending to be boys in the show, that's why they gain boobies and hips when they transform). Hell, I wonder if US reached the lesbian duo at the upper right.

The stars stuff wasn't in the manga they were girls who hide thenself as boys .. and in the anime they changed to boys who transforms into girls ?
So the "no transexuals" censorship that happened in most places was actualy to get closer to the manga ?

Also, love how the incest don't take away the lesbianism .... unless they made uranus a dude or something ... bu then they would enter in the stars territory

Disagree:

Sailor moon does not hold a candle to MKR, but it's still decent.

Magical Girl + RPG + Mechas ... it is PERFECT !

 

[rpmurphy]

I watched it until they introduced Uranus and Neptune and lost interest shortly after that. I watched some of Super S and that was nice, except Chibi-usa and that unicorn what the heck.

 

[LowParry]

Raaaaainy day maaaaaaannn....

 

[SaintZ]

It's all usually based within the same premise and for one reason or another does something different to end at a pretty similar result.

And I honestly walked into PGSM expecting an Arc 1 play by play with some fluff to fill the episode count. I walked out 51 episodes later being glad it did it's own thing. I really loved the focus on the girls outside of fighting evil and saving the day to really expand on them as characters.

Spoiler

The Dark Mercury Saga is an excellent example of this. Fucking unexpected plot twist that blew my mind. And another reason I proudly play for Team Ami. None of the other girls could've pulled that off. And Minako's death. That whole thing was well executed story telling even though you know she wouldn't stay dead. But the fact they'd even do it was kind of shocking to me. Even though Sailor Moon is no stranger to dealing with mortality issues.

I guess what I'm saying here to anybody who hasn't watched PGSM who is a fan of the series to do that ASAP. Leave all you know about Sailor Moon at the door and look at it as a fresh experience. You'll appreciate it more.

AGREED. +1, Like, Word, etc.

Seriously, loved this series, specially the plot points you mention.

Spoiler

Minako's Death

in particular was handled very well and I thought the actresses did a great job, specially Mars and Venus, they had awesome chemistry together. I also liked the introduction of

Spoiler

Kuroki Mio

but I felt they didn't use the character enough and wasted her potential (and her song "Change of Pace" was crack for me back in the day lol). The only change I didn't like was

Spoiler

Sailor Luna

.

 

[Effect]

I've only seen what was released and aired in the US. Sailor Moon, R, S, and Super S along with the films. Never seen Sailor Stars. Loved every bit of it though there were some lows. This and DBZ were the shows I watched that lead me to get into anime. I do wish I could have read the manga though.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I watched it until they introduced Uranus and Neptune and lost interest shortly after that. I watched some of Super S and that was nice, except Chibi-usa and that unicorn what the heck.

That seems to be the usual reaction.

Super S is just bad.

 

[Hex]

Every bit of it, I love Sailor Moon.
Also agree that Magic Knight Rayearth is amazing.

 

[Hitokage]

That seems to be the usual reaction.

Super S is just bad.

Supers (not Super-S) is just horribly uneven, not just bad. Quite a few episodes are actually really good in that series, and it's not just the ones that Junichi Sato and Kunihiko Ikuhara were in direct control of.

Also, Chibiusa is not what was wrong with Supers. If anything, meddling by Toei messed things up.

 

[Triple Da G.O.D!]

AGREED. +1, Like, Word, etc.

Seriously, loved this series, specially the plot points you mention.

Spoiler

Minako's Death

in particular was handled very well and I thought the actresses did a great job, specially Mars and Venus, they had awesome chemistry together. I also liked the introduction of

Spoiler

Kuroki Mio

but I felt they didn't use the character enough and wasted her potential (and her song "Change of Pace" was crack for me back in the day lol). The only change I didn't like was

Spoiler

Sailor Luna

.

I'm with you.

Spoiler

When Rei finds out that Minako is dead it doesn't immediately sink in for her or you. However, when she finally breaks down during the fight the true gravity of the situation presents itself. I will admit this out loud. This is the point when I started to cry because it was at this same point I felt Rei's pain. At this point you really had no choice but to face the reality of Minako's fate. And I really honestly think that the acting really carried that event with respect and seriousness that it merited. Because it could've came off cheesy as hell and lost all of the meaning but I'm so glad it didn't.

The one thing I love and respect about PGSM is that the all of the "SHIT JUST GOT REAL" moments are actual turning points for the characters and not an excuse for a plot based power up. And each one of these moments are carried by the actresses very well. Ami dropping her Dark Mercury act. Makoto's monologue. Even Usagi's transformation into Princess Sailor Moon got all of this right in their own way. And Princess Sailor Moon just PWNS everybody when she first hit the scene. Serious shit and hilarity all at the same time.

I'm with you on Kuroki as well. She came in and was the thorn in the Senshi's side and in that she succeeded. My only thing was they didn't build on her like they could've. The more time passed the more she became one-dimensional as a character being culminated in the Special Act episode.

And there was nothing wrong with Sailor Luna. This is said with mad bias because Luna is my favorite character that isn't Ami. The series always danced around the possibility and PGSM made it so. And more Luna can never be a bad thing.

Supers (not Super-S) is just horribly uneven, not just bad. Quite a few episodes are actually really good in that series, and it's not just the ones that Junichi Sato and Kunihiko Ikuhara were in direct control of.

Also, Chibiusa is not what was wrong with Supers. If anything, meddling by Toei messed things up.

All I can do is nod my head in agreement. And this is one of many examples of why Sailor Moon would benefit from a Dragon Ball Kai approach. To make an anime that captures the more serious tone that the manga portrays and that the way the story is handled.

Spoiler

And that final scene of SuperS with Chibiusa and Helios was too good. So DAWWWW worthy.

 

[DrForester]

That seems to be the usual reaction.

Super S is just bad.

SuperS had the series best music.

 

[Hitokage]

All I can do is nod my head in agreement. And this is one of many examples of why Sailor Moon would benefit from a Dragon Ball Kai approach. To make an anime that captures the more serious tone that the manga portrays and that the way the story is handled.

Spoiler

And that final scene of SuperS with Chibiusa and Helios was too good. So DAWWWW worthy.

The anime did its own thing. It didn't take itself all that seriously much of the time while the manga was quite the opposite, and it's great for that. Focusing on "plot episodes" or battles instead of the character interaction, stylistic animation, and comedic moments kind of misses the point.

So rather than taking out "filler", they should just take out eps that didn't work, like that terrible kendo girl episode. Every single Fish Eye episode can stay.

 

[PhoenixDark]

lol I watched it as a kid, and would pretend I didn't when my brothers came around. Last thing I remember was the death of

Spoiler

nephrite

 

[Triple Da G.O.D!]

The anime did its own thing. It didn't take itself all that seriously much of the time while the manga was quite the opposite, and it's great for that. Focusing on "plot episodes" or battles instead of the character interaction, stylistic animation, and comedic moments kind of misses the point.

So rather than taking out "filler", they should just take out eps that didn't work, like that terrible kendo girl episode. Every single Fish Eye episode can stay.

My whole thing is wanting to see an anime adaptation that completely captures Takeuchi's vision for Sailor Moon. Whatever that vision might happen to be. And that's why I brought up Kai. DB Kai showed that a runback of what you've seen before can work. Sailor Moon is a completely different beast to even approach in that way but it could be done. Just somebody do the shit, please.

 

[Mpl90]

However, I talked about Sailor Moon Sacrifice

Well, this is the first part of the first episode (Sorry for the italian subs)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCIUm67jzIA

 

[Cheerilee]

My whole thing is wanting to see an anime adaptation that completely captures Takeuchi's vision for Sailor Moon. Whatever that vision might happen to be. And that's why I brought up Kai. DB Kai showed that a runback of what you've seen before can work. Sailor Moon is a completely different beast to even approach in that way but it could be done. Just somebody do the shit, please.

Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood.

They should just greenlight a new anime series based on manga-version Sailormoon.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Supers (not Super-S) is just horribly uneven, not just bad. Quite a few episodes are actually really good in that series, and it's not just the ones that Junichi Sato and Kunihiko Ikuhara were in direct control of.

Also, Chibiusa is not what was wrong with Supers. If anything, meddling by Toei messed things up.

I guess. I just kinda hate the unicorn love that kid has.

Really love the villain in that arc though - nothing's creepier than intergalactic space circus.

 

[Hitokage]

I guess. I just kinda hate the unicorn love that kid has.

What's wrong with loving a sentient horse that is actually a person?

 

[Boss Doggie]

What's wrong with loving a sentient horse that is actually a person?

It wouldn't be so bad if it felt like detraction.

I dunno, I guess I was too in love by S that Super S felt underwhelming to me.

Yes I need my lesbians.