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[Valjean Lafitte]

That is EXACTLY what the NRA are.

I'm not going to quote everyone else who told me the same thing (and that I was even "historically wrong on this"), but I have to say that it frightens me that there are people who see the world in such extreme shades of good and evil.

What you are actually saying is that the NRA, a 5,000,000+ member group, collectively celebrated the fact that a man's life was taken in cold blood. These 5,000,000 members are people with husbands and wives and kids, but because they, some perhaps callously, support bills that put guns in the hands of more people, you think it's logical to assume that collectively speaking they have some sick bloodthirst. That the NRA as an organization is happy that Will Smith is dead.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

https://twitter.com/traversmackel/status/719290113843277824

So if he's found guilty, does the sentence become tougher due to the fact that his rep has gone on record to say he is innocent?

No.... Why the hell would it? I mean it would likely be worse than if he pled guilty but that's the case in every case ever so I'm not really sure what you're asking.

 

[Zipzo]

America to me would be more dangerous to visit than a country at-war. I know that's a sensational thing to say, but the frequency of this sort of news from the US is a bad look, so bad that it paints a pretty ugly picture of what trying to communicate with anyone around me could cause especially if it's negatively connotated...

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

America to me would be more dangerous to visit than a country at-war.I know that's a sensational thing to say, but the frequency of this sort of news from the US is a bad look, so bad that it paints a pretty ugly picture of what trying to communicate with anyone around me could cause especially if it's negatively connotated...

You're not wrong. I told a few people to never come to this country because of stuff like this.

 

[DJKhaled]

Mate, I'm not American but you're treading a very fine line there. I'd suggest editing in an apology before someone concludes that your shit-tier contributions aren't worth the space on the page.

I'm not editing anything, it just sickens me that the first thing people do when hear news like this is jumping straight to saying that the killer needs to be shot or whatever, yeah, he is a piece of shit, but that doesn't excuse the death penalty. America is the only developed western nation where it still happens and all those other countries are much safer so it's clearly not working. The line I'm treading is truth and isn't fine at all. How people can hate a murderer but then also call for that persons death is ludicrous. Lock him up, help his obvious mental issues and never let him hurt someone again, but you never ever have a reason to kill someone.

 

[LeonSPBR]

Just read it about it. RIP and hope his wife will pull through.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I'm not going to quote everyone else who told me the same thing (and that I was even "historically wrong on this"), but I have to say that it frightens me that there are people who see the world in such extreme shades of good and evil.

What you are actually saying is that the NRA, a 5,000,000+ member group, collectively celebrated the fact that a man's life was taken in cold blood. These 5,000,000 members are people with husbands and wives and kids, but because they, some perhaps callously, support bills that put guns in the hands of more people, you think it's logical to assume that collectively speaking they have some sick bloodthirst. That the NRA as an organization is happy that Will Smith is dead.

The NRA will gleefully spin any newsworthy shooting into a fearmongering call for more guns sales and a further loosening of background checks and carrying restrictions.

It's got nothing to do with logic or emotion, it has to do with money. They are a corporate entity that exists to promote the continued success of gun manufactures. People who are shot to death are collateral in the push to that sole end.

 

[DrForester]

I'm not going to quote everyone else who told me the same thing (and that I was even "historically wrong on this"), but I have to say that it frightens me that there are people who see the world in such extreme shades of good and evil.

What you are actually saying is that the NRA, a 5,000,000+ member group, collectively celebrated the fact that a man's life was taken in cold blood. These 5,000,000 members are people with husbands and wives and kids, but because they, some perhaps callously, support bills that put guns in the hands of more people, you think it's logical to assume that collectively speaking they have some sick bloodthirst. That the NRA as an organization is happy that Will Smith is dead.

Happy that Will Smith is dead? No, not specifically. Happy that violence continues and that they're working as hard as they can to make sure it keeps happening? Yes. And every one of those 5,000,000 people who pay to support this organization share the blame.

 

[Squalor]

America to me would be more dangerous to visit than a country at-war. I know that's a sensational thing to say, but the frequency of this sort of news from the US is a bad look, so bad that it paints a pretty ugly picture of what trying to communicate with anyone around me could cause especially if it's negatively connotated...

Yes, that is incredibly overly sensational.

You pick and choose news stories, but disregard the thousands of NeoGAF members you interact with on a daily basis who do not get shot.

Yeah, get that bullshit out of here.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

I'm not going to quote everyone else who told me the same thing (and that I was even "historically wrong on this"), but I have to say that it frightens me that there are people who see the world in such extreme shades of good and evil.

Validation by proximity ('he could have defended himself if...' or defending the shooter's right to have the weapon) is still culpability. This isn't hard to grasp, and yes, the NRA holds responsibility for all of these incidents by lobbying against sensible law alterations and legitimizing crazy people in their delusions.

You don't seem to grasp the concept of responsibility beyond mere circumstances, which has nothing to do with normative, simplistic concepts of 'good' and 'evil'. If someone gets hurt by something you supported, you are still responsible for enabling that to happen.

If you want to talk about extreme shades of 'good and evil', you should realize that the very same reasoning is used to validate the war on drugs. Drug dealers aren't making people use drugs either, yet they get most of the blame either way. But then it's fine, "because criminals". Replace drugs with guns to find your inconsistency of logic.

Yes, that is incredibly overly sensational.

You pick and choose news stories, but disregard the thousands of NeoGAF members you interact with on a daily basis who do not get shot.

Yeah, get that bullshit out of here.

I'm European and I would avoid travelling to the US versus European destinations as well. Statistics on this matter don't lie. Avoiding that by saying 'well they're just statistics' doesn't mean a damn thing when you've become part of that statistic.
It's like that one guy that tells every-fucking-one that it's safe to drink and drive, because "nothing ever happened to him". Which is true, because he likely got or will get other people killed in his stead. Like people thinking his advice is credible, thereby getting themselves killed by drunk driving and becoming the statistic.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

America to me would be more dangerous to visit than a country at-war.

Well that would not be true and America is safer to visit than most countries which are not at war.

As for this incident: this is why guns need to be harder to obtain.

 

[NH Apache]

So one of my very good friends saw this directly and was a direct witness. After the accident, there was a white tatted dude who got out of Smith's car anf motioned to pull a gun.

Pierre Thomas was in a grand am in front. This is crazy.

 

[Slayer-33]

So one of my very good friends saw this directly and was a direct witness. After the accident, there was a white tatted dude who got out of Smith's car anf motioned to pull a gun.

Pierre Thomas was in a grand am in front. This is crazy.

Holy shit

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

You don't seem to grasp the concept of responsibility beyond mere circumstances, which has nothing to do with normative, simplistic concepts of 'good' and 'evil'. If someone gets hurt by something you supported, you are still responsible for enabling that to happen.

And you don't seem grasp (or simply haven't followed from the beginning) the chain of comments you are responding to. Someone said that they 'bet the NRA are celebrating', and when I pointed that out that the NRA is made up of human beings, not cartoonish villains that celebrate when people die, several people responded saying that that is *exactly* what they are what they do.

You're reading a pro-NRA argument where there is none; I don't own a gun, do not support the NRA, am pro-gun control, and said nothing about the NRA's responsibility.

 

[Jailer of Hope]

I'm not editing anything, it just sickens me that the first thing people do when hear news like this is jumping straight to saying that the killer needs to be shot or whatever, yeah, he is a piece of shit, but that doesn't excuse the death penalty. America is the only developed western nation where it still happens and all those other countries are much safer so it's clearly not working. The line I'm treading is truth and isn't fine at all. How people can hate a murderer but then also call for that persons death is ludicrous. Lock him up, help his obvious mental issues and never let him hurt someone again, but you never ever have a reason to kill someone.

There's still a difference between your generalization and the truth and you fail to realize that.

 

[Bad_Boy]

You're not wrong. I told a few people to never come to this country because of stuff like this.

Sarcasm?

 

[Muskieratboi]

Terrible news.

Worse news will be the people who mistake him for the other guy.

 

[Insertia]

Appease -
Atonement demands of justice
May anger BE
The wicked have already been destroyed
{quoted from the Book of Mormon}

No more violence. Rest Will Smith.

 

[Zipzo]

Yes, that is incredibly overly sensational.

You pick and choose news stories, but disregard the thousands of NeoGAF members you interact with on a daily basis who do not get shot.

Yeah, get that bullshit out of here.

Isn't this technically picking and choosing? Saying that people specifically here posting have not been shot therefore X? How do you know Mr. Smith, the person killed in this incident wasn't a GAF member?

I don't "pick and choose" anything, I just read what comes out. There isn't news about the guy who didn't get shot and had a normal day, but there are countries that have significantly less news about people getting shot over trivial matters...

 

[kmfdmpig]

Isn't this technically picking and choosing? Saying that people specifically here posting have not been shot therefore X? How do you know Mr. Smith, the person killed in this incident wasn't a GAF member?

I don't "pick and choose" anything, I just read what comes out. There isn't news about the guy who didn't get shot and had a normal day, but there are countries that have significantly less news about people getting shot over trivial matters...

Yes, it is more dangerous than it should be. It is more dangerous than countries with rational gun laws. To say it is like a war zone is ridiculous, however.
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-odds-of-being-shot-and-killed-in-the-US

 

[Iorv3th]

Isn't this technically picking and choosing? Saying that people specifically here posting have not been shot therefore X? How do you know Mr. Smith, the person killed in this incident wasn't a GAF member?

I don't "pick and choose" anything, I just read what comes out. There isn't news about the guy who didn't get shot and had a normal day, but there are countries that have significantly less news about people getting shot over trivial matters...

And most of them are significantly smaller and less diverse (not just in people but cultures etc) countries. You are also more likely to get US news in your every day media than you are every other country.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

New Orleans is a shit hole, not terribly surprising.

RIP to Will Smith, hopefully his wife makes a full recovery and hopefully their family is coping as well as possible.

 

[LQX]

Wow, R.I.P

So one of my very good friends saw this directly and was a direct witness. After the accident, there was a white tatted dude who got out of Smith's car anf motioned to pull a gun.

Pierre Thomas was in a grand am in front. This is crazy.

So does your friend think that was the reason he was fired on? How come that guy did not shoot back if he had a gun? Did your friend speak to the police?

 

[NH Apache]

Wow, R.I.P


So does your friend think that was the reason he was fired on? How come that guy did not shoot back if he had a gun? Did your friend speak to the police?

My buddy had taken like 6 videos of the thing. He only has two on there now after the detective went through it. In on of the videos that's still on there, you can hear the shooter yelling that Smith was reaching for a gun. He spoke to police at the time and was told he has to go back.

My buddy was one of the first ones there, looked in the Merc and asked if the driver was ok. Turns out that was Smith and he was already gone.

And New Orleans is not a shithole. I'm not convinced that this isn't related to the retired cop that Smith had dinner with earlier that happened to shoot Hayne's Dad. Too much of a coincidence.

 

[LQX]

My buddy had taken like 6 videos of the thing. He only has two on there now after the detective went through it. In on of the videos that's still on there, you can hear the shooter yelling that Smith was reaching for a gun. He spoke to police at the time and was told he has to go back.

My buddy was one of the first ones there, looked in the Merc and asked if the driver was ok. Turns out that was Smith and he was already gone.

And New Orleans is not a shithole. I'm not convinced that this isn't related to the retired cop that Smith had dinner with earlier that happened to shoot Hayne's Dad. Too much of a coincidence.

They deleted the videos from his phone? Is that legal?

Was it clear to your friend if it was self defense? It sort of sounds that way if one of the occupants with Smith motioned that he had gun and then the shooter himself yelled Smith had a gun.

 

[captjohnboyd]

New Orleans is a shit hole, not terribly surprising.

RIP to Will Smith, hopefully his wife makes a full recovery and hopefully their family is coping as well as possible.

It pains me to read things like that. NO is far from a shithole. It's one of the most cultured cities in the world and my home. I've been fortunate enough to live all over this country and I choose to live here. the crime problem is no doubt an extreme issue that needs to be fixed but it's not as easy as just putting more police on the streets etc. The economy and the divide between haves and have nots needs to be addressed and perhaps most importantly the school system needs to be fixed so some of these people can finally feel like they have a little upward mobility.

That's a discussion for another time though. This whole thing is most certainly tragic and quite suspicious considering who Will dined with earlier

 

[Zipzo]

Yes, it is more dangerous than it should be. It is more dangerous than countries with rational gun laws. To say it is like a war zone is ridiculous, however.
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-odds-of-being-shot-and-killed-in-the-US

Wasn't there a thread a few days ago talking about how there have been ~900 gun-related incidents in just Chicago alone in the year 2016? Incidents pertains to any case where someone was killed, or injured with a firearm of any kind by another person.

I don't think it's that much of an exaggeration to say that this is comparable to that of a small scale war-zone...and that's just Chicago...

 

[Allforce]

This whole thing sounds like a tragic mess. You don't just pop someone for rear-ending you at a stop light, something had to go on where the guy felt his life was in danger and in the US it feels like anyone could be carrying a gun and go to the extreme if faced with an escalating situation.

I feel like once the details come out this is going to get really complicated. It's not going to be as simple as "psychopath murders NFL player after fender bender".

 

[Zipzo]

Here's some insight from Haye's defense attorney with a bit more insight on the situation in specificity...

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2016/04/in_will_smith_killing_my_clien.html

It's really not too far-fetched to think that maybe there is more to this than meets the eye, but either way, nobody should have been shot.

Fuller said his client not only was the first to call 911, but that Hayes also waited for police to arrive and "secured a witness who was about to leave the scene" after the shooting.

"His actions are totally consistent with someone that is complying with police investigations," Fuller said. "Now tell me if that's the behavior that's consistent with someone who is an animal out here, looking for blood.

"He was struck in a hit-and-run prior to this incident occurring. My client was hit. The person that hit him sped off. My client followed behind that person in an effort to get their license plate, and my client called 911, which will be verified in the upcoming weeks. My client's car was struck from the rear. I really don't know which car (he was chasing), but all that will become apparent in upcoming weeks."

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Heart goes out to his family. I just heard about it.

 

[NH Apache]

Pretty big update, video in link:

It appears Will Smith rear ended the hummer first and then tried to leave the scene. The hummer followed:

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf...ting_surveillan.html#incart_river_mobile_home

Supplemental witness info:

http://www.fox8live.com/story/31696005/witness-records-video-of-will-smith-shooting-scene

 

[Jonm1010]

Pretty big update, video in link:

It appears Will Smith rear ended the hummer first and then tried to leave the scene. The hummer followed:

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf...ting_surveillan.html#incart_river_mobile_home

Supplemental witness info:

http://www.fox8live.com/story/31696005/witness-records-video-of-will-smith-shooting-scene

Certainly adds some context for why things escalated the way they did.

Still doesnt come close to justifying the actions he took by shooting Smith. Not to imply you were or anything.

 

[EnthronedReaper]

This is super eerie I just found out about this guy a couple hrs ago. I'm not a big football guy but thought it was funny he shared the freshest name in the galaxy. I saw his name on a random post on facebook, and now a couple hrs later only my 2nd time hearing of him, he's been shot dead. This world is one crazy cruel bitch

 

[GaimeGuy]

My reaction to the news that Smith was trying to flee after rear ending his car.

"So?"

 

[makingmusic476]

Sean Payton commented on gun proliferation in response to Will Smith's death:

"I hate guns," "“I’ve heard people argue that everybody needs a gun. That’s madness" and “They don’t want to kill tourism. But right now, it’s like the Wild, Wild West here.”

And now I'm seeing people saying they'll boycott the Saints so long as Payton is head coach because of his comments.

 

[Mesousa]

If Hayes believed Smith was turning around to get his gun, as implied by "I got a gun" statement apparently made by a witness in a video doesn't he have a case due to Louisiana's Stand your ground law?

 

[RS4-]

I'm not going to quote everyone else who told me the same thing (and that I was even "historically wrong on this"), but I have to say that it frightens me that there are people who see the world in such extreme shades of good and evil.

What you are actually saying is that the NRA, a 5,000,000+ member group, collectively celebrated the fact that a man's life was taken in cold blood. These 5,000,000 members are people with husbands and wives and kids, but because they, some perhaps callously, support bills that put guns in the hands of more people, you think it's logical to assume that collectively speaking they have some sick bloodthirst. That the NRA as an organization is happy that Will Smith is dead.

The NRA doesn't care at all when someone dies. It's always 'we need more guns' blah blah, rights, blah blah.

 

[bootsthecat]

If Hayes believed Smith was turning around to get his gun, as implied by "I got a gun" statement apparently made by a witness in a video doesn't he have a case due to Louisiana's Stand your ground law?

Looks like they found a loaded 9mm in Smith's car.

Tragic either way, but it's starting to lend credence to this not being some 'just for kicks' random road rage murder.

 

[DrForester]

Going to be an interesting trial.

 

[pgtl_10]

Kudos to Payton for taking a stand. People will hate him but someone needs to speak out.

 

[Jonm1010]

Looks like they found a loaded 9mm in Smith's car.

Tragic either way, but it's starting to lend credence to this not being some 'just for kicks' random road rage murder.

I mean this is Louisiana, guns are an extension of the home. Fucking everyone has a goddamn loaded gun in their car.

I'm exaggerating but not by nearly as much as I would like unfortunately. It honestly is more common then you think.

Something like this though should show the flaw in that logic but it won't.

 

[Jonm1010]

Sean Payton commented on gun proliferation in response to Will Smith's death:



And now I'm seeing people saying they'll boycott the Saints so long as Payton is head coach because of his comments.

1st amendment is only good if it supports the 2nd amendment, otherwise it's nothing but trash apparently.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Will was shot eight times and seven of those were in his back

Will Smith was shot eight times, seven times in the back and once in the chest, the New Orleans coroner said Wednesday in his preliminary report, which preliminarily classified the former New Orleans Saints' defensive end's death as a homicide.

"These bullet tracks had entrance into the left upper back (1), left mid-back (2), left lower back (3), and left lateral chest wall (1). Many of these bullets perforated vital organs, including the lungs and heart.

"One of these wounds was a perforating wound, with both an entrance and an exit wound. This bullet entered the left upper back, traversed soft tissue, and exited from the right shoulder area."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15196959/will-smith-shot-8-s-7-s-back-new-orleans-coroner-says

 

[Link]

To the surprise of absolutely no one, it's looking like Hayes' lawyer will be using "Stand Your Ground" as his defense.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/14/louisiana-stand-your-ground-law-looms-over-will-smith-killing/

Greatest country in the world, am I right?!

 

[Chmpocalypse]

I understand, but if you read closely you'll see it wasn't just about the accident. It was about Smith confronting him and we're not sure what he said to the other man yet...

What the fuck is wrong with you? There is no scenario where words justify being murdered like this. None.

 

[TS-08]

To the surprise of absolutely no one, it's looking like Hayes' lawyer will be using "Stand Your Ground" as his defense.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/14/louisiana-stand-your-ground-law-looms-over-will-smith-killing/

Greatest country in the world, am I right?!

The lawyer's comments seem in line with a self-defense argument in general. I don't think he would say anything different no matter the state he was in. In substance (because there could be some procedural differences), Stand Your Ground simply means you don't have to retreat before using deadly force in a situation you are justified in using said force. If the shooter's story is he was threatened with the gun, I don't think he will have been found to have violated a duty to retreat no matter the state.

 

[Macho Madness]

Indicted.

The Associated Press @AP
BREAKING: Grand jury indicts man on murder charge in shooting of retired Saints' player Will Smith.

 

[shanafan]

Sad update to the story

Will Smith was blood alcohol level was 3 times the legal limit the night he was killed.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/will-smith-s-blood-alcohol-level-was-three-times-the-legal-limit-193616886.html

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Sad update to the story

Will Smith was blood alcohol level was 3 times the legal limit the night he was killed.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/will-smith-s-blood-alcohol-level-was-three-times-the-legal-limit-193616886.html

Why does this matter though?

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Why does this matter though?

Will it make the shooter's story more plausible? Dropped down to manslaughter maybe?