That explains everything. And I stand by my statement, he's not a government official, his death means nothing to the Iranians.
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Saudi Arabia & Iran sever ties after execution of top Shia reformist cleric
- Thread starter shinobi602
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That explains everything. And I stand by my statement, he's not a government official, his death means nothing to the Iranians.
Mr. Pointy
Member
World War I
Jag
Member
SA is evil, but it was inevitable that Iran and the US were going to be at odds given the history between the 2 countries. SA was the lesser of 2 evils.
What part of "not a government official" wasn't clear?
Dayner_Kurdi
Banned
i wonder how we ever going to recover from all this in future, being from saudi, I don't think that both Saudi and Iran government have a clear endgame plan.
mrmisterwaa
Neo Member
They definitely know how to make each other angry.
I doubt anything is going to come out of this. KSA & Iran always had the Sunni vs Shite hatred for decades.
lets hope not, but it could spark more protests against the ruling family which could lead to more civil unrest and then eventually civil war.
First was there any Arab Spring in SA? I can't recall any major one. SA doesn't have a stronger military than Iran. When it comes to air yes but on land it's probably the opposite, which is good since this is one more reason for SA not to attack Iran and destabilize the ME more than it's already is. Also, SA doesn't support ISIS or Al-Qaeda unless you mean they have the same ideology then this is another topic to discuss. Finally, Yemen government was elected fairly and Houthi is trying to over through with force. The president of Yemen asked SA to interfere and so SA did.
Shiita is minority in SA so this probably won't spark a civil war when the majority and the government is Sunni.
TheRealTalker
Banned
No I am not from SA lol
What I am getting at is this is overly complex to the point of not knowing who the clear winner would be
rather the more safe assumption is both will collapse.... maybe SA first due to Yemen be more then they can handle.... Plus SA and other GCC nations suppressed Bahrain a Shia majority country run by Sunni monarchs
SA has Shias and they do indeed keep them in check but they are a Sunni majority nations and instead have money payouts to their citizens in order to keep stability (which will soon come to harm due to oil prices)
Though imho SA is likely going to collapse as a Monoarchy for inner reason before Iran if they both did nothing to confront each other
yeah that is the proxy aspect of it (An example of Wahabi shipped idealogy to other Sunni regions)..... Shias as well do major oppression to Sunnis
heck Syria is an example right now but Sunnis are more the case since they are large in population and hence a majority in most countries
What I am saying is instead of playing hand to hand with two corrupt nations you just step aside and distance yourself from them if you are Sunni or Shia
both will likely implode eventually.... and we all know both would rather do proxy wars harming and diving other nations then actually doing stuff themselves
Dixon's Jet
Banned
Will the nuclear inspections deal keep Washington and Tehran close enough to prevent some kind of showdown?
One would think, Iran has come too far to throw it all away on this crap.
Patrick Bateman
Member
If the USA hadn't supported Operation Ajax then things might be different.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
lol
Yes there was an Arab Spring, but the Kingdom of Saud has near total control over the country and stopped it from becoming an Egypt or Libya. They also helped Bahrain put down their own uprising. It wasn't as widely reported in the West because SA is a major US ally. Also, Saudi Arabia is perhaps the greatest source of funding from a country for many Islamist terror groups. This is not new and has been known for a while. They may not do it 'officially' especially now, but yes, they did support Al-Qaeda and ISIS before it started killing journalists and whatnot. Maybe they're still getting funds, hard to say for sure. Just like it's hard to say exactly how much Iran funds Hezbollah.
Also, Yemen is essentially a puppet of the SA, they were going to intervene whether they were officially asked to or not. Just like Russia intervened in Ukraine as the Pro-Russian government fell. My point being that all it did was increase anti-SA sentiment among the Houthi's and Shia even more. This posturing between Saudi Arabia and Iran will only destabilize an already unstable region. Various countries have sizable majority or minority populations of Sunni/Shia etc. Even SA itself has millions of Shia citizens. Let's hope it doesn't escalate beyond this.
Dayner_Kurdi
Banned
still both sides are not willing to back-down and try claim things down, but side are making sectarianism even more worse, even some of my family started to speak such things within our family party and such.
Maybe, no point dwelling on it.
That is not an endorsement of the regime, but simply how the balance of power might be different in the Middle East.
andythinkpad
Member
If Iran still had Shah it would be as evil as Saudi Arabia since the Shah was a fucking puppet who was first installed by the British and later again by the US against the will of the Iranian people.
Could there be a Shiite equivalent to Wahhabism?
Iran still executes homosexuals like Saudi Arabia, so how are they different?
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I love coming into these threads and seeing absolute nonsense like this
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Is there anything more annoying than every Iran post having a reference to this or every Syria thread having a reference to sykes-picot as those these thing radically changed things and aren't part of a long long history.
I'd much prefer references to the great game as it is a more obscure reference and makes you sound smarter. Though why don't we talk about the Safavid or the Islamic invasion of the sasasian empire. Maybe this would be different.
The irony is the US are so fucking stupid they don't seem to remember the current Iranian regime is the direct result of them backing a brutal autocratic regime against a democratically elected leader.
You really don't want that. In the unlikely chance they got into it, gas prices would shoot through the roof at the very least. At worst, WWIII
TheRealTalker
Banned
whose only crime was wanting to nationalize their oil industry from Britain
I mean this world.... I can't
NYCmetsfan
Banned
This isn't really what happened. History doesn't go: a leads to b.
The overthrow played a part but its not in vacuum and the single cause and effect.
And it pretends that nothing happened between the 50s and late 70s.
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
I think it's more about who they execute where you can draw distinctions. Iran claims their executions are mostly from a drug war. Saudi Arabia will kill you for changing religions or criticizing the government. Saudi Arabia is also very quick to kill minorities first.
The sentiment obviously extends to America and euros not getting involved at all, which would never ever happen anyway. But yes, the oIL would be an issue.
American cops kill people on the street, so how is US different than ISIS? What kind of stupid analogy is that?
Yes, Iran treats homosexuals awfully but them being executed for their sexuality has been rare. On the other hand Iran has more progressive laws concerning transsexuals, offering them a sex change operation if they choose so. Women's rights in Iran is not comparable to Scandinavia but still damn far better than SA. Women are allowed to drive, vote, get university degrees, have positions in the government, etc.
More importantly Iranian citizens do not fund ISIS and Al Qaeda.
Jag
Member
They fund Hezbollah which is just as bad.
Lol, I cannot believe you are defending Iran in this case. A lot of the cases with Iranian who still see themselves as male/female but are forced into it because the not doing so is far worse. I.e imprisonment or death. Oh it doesn't happen, Iran are the gud guise. Fuck off with your fallacies man.
Distinctions do not need to be drawn. Both countries have horrid, oppressive governments and neither should be praised because they happen to treat a demographic slightly different.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
I see him telling you that Iran is better than SA, thats not defending Iran, it is stating a fact. Iran is far more a progrssive country than Saudi Arabia. In an ideal world no one will support SA, but we don't live in such a world.
Abinash117
Member
It won't end well for Saudi Arabia I think. Saudi Arabia is fast becoming exposed as perhaps one of the, if not worst nations in the world especially with regards to human rights, oppression, even in North Korea women can drive. Because of their support for Israel and their dominance of OPEC and oil, and the purchasing of US military hardware, Saudi Arabia is given a free pass so many times. They are the greatest sponsor of terrorism around the globe, they fund radical groups like Al-Qaeda, ISIS.
They brutally suppressed their own Arab Spring uprising, and have instead gone on to bomb the hell out of the Houthi Shiite rebels in Yemen just so their puppet sunni government can stay and not have another Shia country or government in the region.
It's not so much about Iran having more allies or whatnot, as opposed to declining Muslim/Arab support for Saudi Arabia. They are far more militarily stronger than Iran, and they will have Israeli and US support in any moves they do, but from Iraq, to Syria, to Yemen, Lebanon, Shia Islam is gaining influence, and are becoming emboldened.
This map is somewhat recent, but it shows the distribution of Shia Islam in the area. Overwhelmingly the majority of the Muslims in the world are Sunni, but in the region, especially around Saudi Arabia, they are being encircled by Shia Islamic states, and it's why they quickly started to bomb the hell out of the Houthi rebels in Yemen who almost toppled the Sunni government. The biggest change in the region has been the toppling of Iraq as a Sunni minority government and one of Iran's greatest enemies has now become their biggest ally.
I don't see those things that you listed as a reason to why SA may not have much support. Very view of those things effect things were it matters which is government relations which SA still is good towards a few countries. You can point to the Yemen conflict on how they got many nations to side with them and the "anti-terrorist" coalition they have-not all really a part of it, but they have influence on many countries or the lack of criticism that SA gets and the continued support of their government. The other countries like Syria,Iraq, or Lebanon are to divided or in a state of war. Iran really on has their proxies which are preoccupied. I don't think SA will steamroll, I think they have the advantage because to how I see things having many allies and influence gives you plenty of leverage and political power.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Your country is not progressive if it's a theocracy/absolute monarchy with sharia law. End of discussion.
End of discussion if you're a 12 year old who can't see nuance and context and differences. It's like saying, they're both bad, I'm taking my ball and going home.
Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. There is no justification to call Iran a better country than SA when it's entire legal system is based on religious texts from the Middle Ages.
Jesus, learn to read. I never defended the Iranian treatment of homosexuals, I specifically said such laws are helpful towards transsexuals.
Jesus, read the link I just posted. Many homosexuals are being PRESSURED to change their gender, when they are comfortable in their own skin. You are beginning to tire me with your constant goal post moving, post something of substance or don't post at all.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
The critical points here that led Saudi Arabia to do so:
- Iran failed to protect the Saudi Diplomats
- Iran refused that the Saudi Diplomats and their families to leave Iran
- UAE stepped in and took the Saudi Diplomats and flew them to Dubai safely
- When Saudi Arabia was sure that their Diplomats were safe the Minister of Foreign affairs in Saudi Arabia made a press conference announcing that with the points that led
A country that fails to protect diplomats is a joke but by this time it comes with no surprise since the current Iranian regime since 79 had a history of not respecting such rules.
- Iran failed to protect the Saudi Diplomats
- Iran refused that the Saudi Diplomats and their families to leave Iran
- UAE stepped in and took the Saudi Diplomats and flew them to Dubai safely
- When Saudi Arabia was sure that their Diplomats were safe the Minister of Foreign affairs in Saudi Arabia made a press conference announcing that with the points that led
A country that fails to protect diplomats is a joke but by this time it comes with no surprise since the current Iranian regime since 79 had a history of not respecting such rules.
shinobi602
Member
Hezbollah wants to create an Iranian-like state. They are prepared to murder and bomb to get that, sounds a damn shade like ISIS.
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