Nice to see they're addressing it for people that were having issues. I just finished the main game and only had to use a repair powder a few times, otherwise carrying a backup weapon was enough to make it through any area. I have played the game before so I wasn't spending all that long in each area, though, might be why I didn't have a problem.
Scholar Of The First Sin To Get Patch Addressing Durabillity.
- Thread starter Alcoholikaust
- Start date
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Good news. I played through the original PC version without ever really having any issues, but I'm not going to complain about more durability. Other than a few specific weapons, I really don't feel like durability adds anything meaningful to the game.
paragonpro
Banned
Awesome, it was getting frustrating to have to spend most of my souls on weapon repairs so frequently.
The quote at Kotaku still leaves some room for interpretation on what are they fixing exactly, and how are they fixing it. I'll wait and see. Ideally they would uncouple the framerate from it entirely, but I doubt that will happen.
I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but Steamdb shows that a password protected Test patch102 went up about 8 hours ago for Scholar, Test patch111 for Vanilla.
I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but Steamdb shows that a password protected Test patch102 went up about 8 hours ago for Scholar, Test patch111 for Vanilla.
It's never too late.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I really don't know why anyone would like it, honestly. I totally get that it makes sense with certain weapons that do a lot more damage than other similar weapons, for example, so it's a trade off, but, honestly, needing to repair is just a pain inf the ass in every game.
if you rarely die youll be visiting bonfires less. i always had to go back for repairs even when using two weapons. watching to make sure you dont swing through a dying enemy and lose 15 percent of your durability sucks
its also just the fact that the bug has existed since the game launched and has only now been addressed, even after releasing a whole new version that still kept the damn problem
To notice how annoying this bug can be, try playing with a halberd sometime. Halberds were my favourite weapon in DS1, but they were almost impossible (for me at least) to use in DS2 due to this bug. Many areas the halberd only lasts for 3 or 4 encounters before it's about to break.
Using a longsword or similiar weapons the bug is not nearly as bad or at least it's doesn't affect you as much. I guess that's why a lot of people hardly noticed the bug, they simply used different weapons.
Glad to see it's getting fixed and when I pick up Scholar Of The First Sin I'm going straight for that halberd again!
Using a longsword or similiar weapons the bug is not nearly as bad or at least it's doesn't affect you as much. I guess that's why a lot of people hardly noticed the bug, they simply used different weapons.
Glad to see it's getting fixed and when I pick up Scholar Of The First Sin I'm going straight for that halberd again!
To notice how annoying this bug can be, try playing with a halberd sometime. Halberds were my favourite weapon in DS1, but they were almost impossible (for me at least) to use in DS2 due to this bug. Many areas the halberd only lasts for 3 or 4 encounters before it's about to break.
Using a longsword or similiar weapons the bug is not nearly as bad or at least it's doesn't affect you as much. I guess that's why a lot of people hardly noticed the bug, they simply used different weapons.
Glad to see it's getting fixed and when I pick up Scholar Of The First Sin I'm going straight for that halberd again!
I use a halberd, it only loses half it's durability going between most bonfires.
Just don't tell me you use the old knight halberd, cause then it's clearly your own fault.
Off course not, I used the regular halberd. Maybe it's my playstyle, but if I accidently did one extra attack against a pair of enemies after they died or a bigger enemy I could wave that durability good bye.
Stop mashing. Carry a repair powder. Carry a second weapon.
I think it's lame that they're apparently making durability irrelevant.
QueenOfThorns
Member
Killing two or three enemies and having your durability be halfway or less is a stupid deign decision and the fact that it has apologists makes me laugh. Complain that the base game isn't hard enough for legit reasons rather than defend a poorly implemented durability system.
Edit: The durability becomes less of a problem once you get the durability ring and stuff, but repair powders are rare until you find the merchant who sells them at an infinite supply, which is like a really late game area.
Those were the katanas with more durability of the category and hey, i get low durability, but *that* low is just silly and a chore.
It's not like it was a challenge, i had bought a ton of repair powders and i kept them in my hot bar, and used them midfight when there was an opening.
It's just an annoying task that doesn't really add anything, especially at that level.
I don't pretend to be going through a whole level + boss with the same weapon like in DkS1, but to have to essentially go through 6 katanas in one boss fight alone? And katanas have low durability, but not particularly low like, say, a crystal weapon or the like.
For example i think rapiers are on a similar durability level.
I never wear the durability ring, use Giant Club and Zwei and can get through most levels. This "2 or 3 swings" to take out half of your durability is untrue.
The R2 double fisted Great Club pancake is close to that, though it's a massively overpowered attack, so it has somewhat of a logic in that case.
It doesn't say that anywhere in what you have quoted.
They are fixing the issue of the drastic decrease in durability related to corpses and friendly characters. It doesn't state anywhere that they are making any other changes.
This is the fix:
They mention the following part because the issue will most clearly be apparent on people running it at 60 FPS because durability is tied to frame rate.
I use the pancake attack all the time and it definitely doesn't take my durability out in near 2-3 swings, so I don't even know. I'm gonna take a video in about an hour when I'm home.
DUFFMCWALIN
Member
Hiding.
I'm right here
I really do hope they only fix the issue with the corpses and leave it normally. This series doesn't need to be more casualized, I wish other games in the series would adopt what this did because it has you experimenting with different weapons, trying out different combos. It's not a problem outside of the first area, don't see how anyone who's played the game for more than a few hours and has 2 weapons equipped that aren't of the "broken" variety could still be having trouble with this.
And many saying that their weapon breaks in 2 or 3 hits is bullshit. Try something that doesn't have 10 durability (most weapons don't :O)
So even after From has said its a bug, and this isnt how its intended, we still have people defending it.
I pretty much stopped posting in the OT because of how you guys treated anyone who had an issue with the Durability. Wanting to ban anyone who mentions durability in a post was definitely a highlight.
It turns out that I, and many others, were rightfully annoyed at this bug.
2-3 hits is hyperbole, but with some gauntlets, it's not that far removed from being annoying.
Like the gauntlet before Velstadt, if you're playing multiplayer and the host decides to not skip the Syan knights, you can get to Veldstadt with a very broken Great Club.
It's not a huge deal in that case, you just use a different weapon for the gauntlet, but it has nothing to do with "casualization", it's just an annoying chore for me.
Especially when you can buy infinite repair powder, it just becomes a "remember to press X on the repair powder every once in a while" which has nothing to do with challenge nor depth.
I just don't think there's anything remotely interesting nor fun about the mechanic, at least how it's implemented now.
I will say, in its defense, that i also think the stat is completely pointless in the other souls games (as well as BB) so it's not only a problem in DkS2, just something they still haven't figured out, after 4 entries.
Andf the "use other weapons" argument is so stupid.
If i'm using a weapon is because i like how it feels to use, if you want me to use other weapons, make them interesting or useful through combat, not by breaking my shit arbitrarily.
If that's the case, why not put a damn countdown on every weapon, so you're forced to throw in the trash all your equipment and try everything!
Just a backwards ass reasoning.
You can't equip that many weapons near the beginning of the game shortly after the forest, which is what you commented on.
QueenOfThorns
Member
I killed two or three enemies with my running R1 on my halberd and it was already at halfway. It is not a good or fun mechanic. I don't even know how something like this gets apologists. It's such a boring hill to die on.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Halberds do varying damage depending on whether it's a thrust or a slash and what part of the weapon hits the enemy. If anyone says they've used a halberd and never accidentally hit an enemy after it was already dead, or stopped attacking because you thought an enemy was dead but it wasn't, then got hit, well, I don't believe them. People do carry a second weapon. The point is that they shouldn't have to. This isn't a gradual thing you can gauge and easily mitigate. This is one simple mistake instantly draining 25% of your weapon's durability.
He specifically called out right after the first area most players go to. Your level is not high enough to dual wield two ultras at that point, or even have two ultras on hand and toggling between them.
QueenOfThorns
Member
I would rather carry two weapons because a thrusting weapon is good against this enemy, and a slashing weapon is good against this one rather than having to carry one because my weapon can't make it more than 3 minutes. Like it going down so far after two or three enemies is just ridiculous, especially with the amount of enemies in every area.
The "use more weapons" bullshit is so tiring. I'm doing the DLC bosses and nearly all of them take 3+ weapons or powders to solo with a melee only build. Trust me, i'm using plenty of weapons. I'm just having a lot less fun than I did when I first played this game.
Also, they are 20 pound weapons, I'm not going to have a shitty spec just to wear more weapons.
Also, they are 20 pound weapons, I'm not going to have a shitty spec just to wear more weapons.
a very cute dog
Member
Awesome, this was really putting a damper on my caestus-run.
I agree with this,imagine if i have to equip 3 ultra-greatswords just for this issue.
Oh..i´m sorry,what´s equipment burden again? lol
Hmm might as well just give us regenerating health since estus is infinite. Hell might as well just make the player invincible so they dont have to worry about that health bar at all.
90% of the game is managing resources and bars, yet we should get rid of that? DS2 attempts to mix up the formula a bit, adds a bunch of game mechanics to compensate, and yet its too tough to manage? I dont agree.
Is there any info on how they are "fixing" it? Will your weapons last twice as long?
I really don't see the issue, only time durability effected me was early in the forest of giants, and no-mans wharf where I had to finish the last two "pirates" with a different weapon. (mace) (then bonfire after shortcut was open to boss)
But guess I will have no effect from my point of view, don't have problem now, and if durability is "buffed", I certainty will not have a problem in the future.
Edit: I have to side a little with the "is a feature" team, as doubling the durability (if this is the fix) renders the durability-stat non-essential, ie useless/pointless.
I really don't see the issue, only time durability effected me was early in the forest of giants, and no-mans wharf where I had to finish the last two "pirates" with a different weapon. (mace) (then bonfire after shortcut was open to boss)
But guess I will have no effect from my point of view, don't have problem now, and if durability is "buffed", I certainty will not have a problem in the future.
Edit: I have to side a little with the "is a feature" team, as doubling the durability (if this is the fix) renders the durability-stat non-essential, ie useless/pointless.
Alcoholikaust
Member
Silent Chief
Member
Was that native 60 fps or through a mod?
What a pointless comparison.
First of all, Estus you have a maximum of 12, before you have to refill at a Bonfire, respawning everything back.
Repair Powders you can have 99.
You can have 99 Life Gems and indeed it's a stupid mechanic they included, rendering the idea behind the Estus trivial already.
Secondly, being without health and finding a moment in the enemy's attack pattern to drink, it's a much riskier and strategic move than simply having to replenish your weapon durability, since you can do that at your leisure (your health can go to zero in 2 or 3 hits, the same isn't true for your weapon).
So it's not the same level of "challenge" at all, infact, the durability mechanic doesn't really pose any challenge, just extra shit you have to put in your hotbar.
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By your logic, let's have the same level of armor durability.
Everytime you get hit 1/20th of your clothes' durability goes down, so you constantly have to try new gear!
I think the "prepare to die" hardcore nonsense DkS has become famous for, is going to the developers' head in the worst ways, with some mechanics.
DkS isn't particularly difficult, never has been, but it has always been interesting in its challenge, not just an empty chore just to waste your time.
The durability mechanic, how is implemented in the Souls series, is exactly that, a waste of time.
More over, just to further point out the inadequacy of your comparison: It takes skill to never get hit, but it can be done.
Durability goes down no matter how well you play, it doesn't require any skill at all to handle.
Estus is there to fix your fuck ups, and you have 12 chances.
Repair Powder isn't there to fix your fuck ups, it's just there to keep you going if you're so good you never need to rest at a bonfire, basically the antithesis.
If durability was tied to well timed combos, then there'd be an argument to be made, which isn't the case right now.
funkystudent
Member
Another developer patching out features? Fail.
Good to see FROM fix this. Will hold off getting SOTFS a little bit longer until this drops.
You "its a feature" are the worst
Good to see FROM fix this. Will hold off getting SOTFS a little bit longer until this drops.
The fix, from the sounds of it, does not increase the durability.
Discussions about the durability in Dark Souls 2 are always clusterfucks because people angrily conflate a bunch of different issues.
- Durability in Dark Souls 2 is supposed to work like Estus charges or Spell uses, i.e. something that auto heals at every bonfire. Repair Powder, Lifegems, and Herbs are all expensive, limited workarounds to the bonfire-to-bonfire gameplay that are either too expensive, too slow, or too rare to be a staples.
- In all versions of the game, you take a durability penalty for hitting a corpse.
- In all versions of the game, the durability penalty for hitting a corpse is greater than hitting a live enemy (What? Why?)
- Likewise, there is a penalty for hitting walls.
- The penalty for walls and corpses is seemingly double-ish for the 60fps versions of the game.
- Even in the 30fps versions, you're encouraged to use two weapons (if you are purely melee), both for durability and having multiple damage types/ranges/animations.
The patch sounds like they're reducing the corpse penalty, and that's it.
However, I disagree that the penalty for hitting a corpse should be reduced. It should just be fucking eliminated, entirely, in every version of the game. There are some weapons that trigger "corpse-hits" right as it kills an enemy (which is unambiguously a bug), so those weapons in particular get completely fucked over, and no simple durability increase (other than, like, a factor of 5x or so) would be able to account for it. Even in the 30fps versions of the game, this issue is the biggest one that gets in the way of the durability mechanics working as they should.
But apparently I'm a durability apologist, so what the fuck does my opinion matter?
The patch won't be fixing this, unless it also removes the wall penalty, and you're using the weapons that constantly scrape along the ground.
No, it is only the corpse penalty, and not the wall penalty. You need to be careful about where you swing.
Who is defending it? Almost everybody acknowledges that hitting corpses being worth than live enemies is fucking stupid, but again, that is from the 30fps versions of the game as well.
Spiritreaver
Member
It's because it bogged the fucking thread to no fucking end. I for one stopped reading the thread because page after page was another flipping durability discussion.
I WANT TO TALK ABOUT OTHER MECHANICS IN THE GAME.
I even suggested someone make a flipping thread about durability to make it easier for everyone.
But no, instead people chose to get super divisive, angsty, and whiny. Both sides.
Yeah using that attack was my primary tactic for the DLCs in Vanilla (on PC, 60fps). I could use it way, way more than just 2 or 3 times.
The guy I quoted.
So wanting to ban users who talk about it is the answer. We spent just as much money as you did, perhaps more depending on the region.
I agree some people were blowing it out of proportion, but a lot werent. But that didnt matter, the defense force was outright bullying those speaking out against it.
Now we have From saying there is an issue with it, and people like Htown are bitching because its getting fixed, and defending it, still.
Spiritreaver
Member
Yes, and people are still acting like gradeschool kids in this thread over a bug that really isn't a gigantic deal in the grand scheme of things AND it's getting fix on top of it all now.
This thread is hilarious with the finger pointing, "haha we were right!", and "wtf! there goes all the difficulty!" posts.
This thread is hilarious with the finger pointing, "haha we were right!", and "wtf! there goes all the difficulty!" posts.
I am certainly not acting like a gradeschool kid.
The bug is bad enough to hamper enjoyment for a few people, just going off the thread alone. Several people claimed to be done with the game altogether due to it.
Its great that it didnt bother you at all, but it did bother others.
It bugged me, and still continues to bug me, but its better with Bracing +2. My Dragon Greatsword still breaks fairly quickly, but I adapted, because I love the game so much.
It takes away some of my enjoyment from the game, and I dont think people should be banned for sharing their opinion on the matter.
Both sides had their whiners and bullies, but the defense force was worse.
The response to the bug was usually "Git gud" or insults on the posters skill with the game, thats not cool.
There were many different people posting their dissatisfaction with the bug, but the same few people defending it. You guys acted like it was the same 2 people complaining, when generally it was someone just picking up the game, and posting in the OT about their impressions, including the bug.
PensivePen
Member
I've always thought durability going down faster at 60fps was the intended behavior. And that the 30fps behavior was the bug. Durability going down faster when you swing at corpses though did seem a bit off.
Orthogonal
Member
Intended only in the sense that they tied a game play function to framerate. It was either a terrible design decision or a programming fubar.
Imperfected
Member
It's a bit unusual, certainly. Normally you'd want your physics engine to be operating independently, so that the positions and behavior of everything are being updated properly even if the game can't draw every interpolating frame.
I would be interested in why they made those choices. I'm assuming there were advantageous trade-offs (faster hit detection algorithms?), given that these are mostly "solved" problems in game engine programming.
Well this thread went downhill quick. I think we can all agree that this affected certain people and effected how they played the game and from is going to take steps to fix it so they can enjoy their time with the game. Isn't that, in the end, a good thing? Can't we all agree that more people playing souls games is a good thing?
*Sigh* It isn't that simple. At least take some time to understand what the hell the problem is before commenting. A poster a few posts now basically summed it up nicely:
That is the issue. It merely isn't just people constantly spamming r1 against walls and against the ground like some moron. It is a bug, from is acknowledging it and are fixing it. They should be commended for supporting the game this long so that more people can experience how great these games are instead being hindered by a bug that they are admitting doesn't work as intended. I also find it funny that your kind of saying that they are making the game easier when Dark Souls 2 isn't even that hard to begin with. I've played plenty of games that are a fuck ton harder than Dark Souls 2. The Souls games were never about difficulty anyway. Many people seem to not understand this.
Yeah. I know right. Its like people are suprised others play the game differently from them. Not all of like running around in Havel's +5 and a greatshield with a sword and just brute force our way through the game.
Yeah I did see some of that in the OT and it was pretty sad. I understand getting tired of seeing the same complaint from people when your reading a thread and you don't like its an issue but some people were being really hostile about it and there's really no need for that.
*Sigh* It isn't that simple. At least take some time to understand what the hell the problem is before commenting. A poster a few posts now basically summed it up nicely:
That is the issue. It merely isn't just people constantly spamming r1 against walls and against the ground like some moron. It is a bug, from is acknowledging it and are fixing it. They should be commended for supporting the game this long so that more people can experience how great these games are instead being hindered by a bug that they are admitting doesn't work as intended. I also find it funny that your kind of saying that they are making the game easier when Dark Souls 2 isn't even that hard to begin with. I've played plenty of games that are a fuck ton harder than Dark Souls 2. The Souls games were never about difficulty anyway. Many people seem to not understand this.
Yeah. I know right. Its like people are suprised others play the game differently from them. Not all of like running around in Havel's +5 and a greatshield with a sword and just brute force our way through the game.
Yeah I did see some of that in the OT and it was pretty sad. I understand getting tired of seeing the same complaint from people when your reading a thread and you don't like its an issue but some people were being really hostile about it and there's really no need for that.