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Schumer, Pelosi announce deal with Trump to protect young immigrants; No wall

DietRob

DietRob

i've been begging for over 5 years.
WTF is going on?!?

Not only this but just now Trump THANKED the media for their amazing coverage of the hurricane. Thanked them....

We just stopped on a new floor of bizzaro world.

numble said:
Neither Trump, Pelosi or Schumer have mentioned the Dream Act, though, just that they want legislative protection for those eligible for DACA.
Click to expand...
Which for all intents and purposes is DREAM. It's a smart move with 80/20 ish support FOR. Figuring this out makes everyone but his shitty 'base' happy. Totally cool with them feeling bad.
 
N

Nasbin

Member
numble said:
Neither Trump, Pelosi or Schumer have mentioned the Dream Act, though, just that they want legislative protection for those eligible for DACA.
Click to expand...

Late Wednesday, Pelosi sent a letter to House Democrats recapping the meeting with the president and reiterating that the Dream Act, sponsored by Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard (D-Downey), must be part of any deal. She also said that during an earlier meeting with House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.), she suggested a bipartisan Homeland Security bill that could be the basis for the border security package.

"Any solution to the challenge facing the DREAMers must include the DREAM Act sponsored by Congresswoman Lucille Roybal-Allard," Pelosi wrote.
Click to expand...
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-pelosi-daca-20170913-story.html
https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/908292381417635841
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
numble said:
The "amnesty" that Reagan passed with the Immigration Reform and Control Act (and is raised on both sides for different reasons) basically granted those that entered illegally prior to 1982 permanent residence after 1 year.
Click to expand...

Right, there is a precedent for it. Trump can say he's just following a Reagan model, but he'll do it "better", and talk in more generalities. That way everyone "gets" what they want. Or at least they think they do. For now.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
I think the only thing we know for sure is that some of Trump's base just had their faith in the god emperor temporarily shaken. I think that at the least is a slight positive, no matter what happens.
 
N

numble

Member
DietRob

DietRob

i've been begging for over 5 years.
Surfinn said:
Dude is finally tired of being hated?
Click to expand...
Most definitely. The guy has always always wanted to be loved by the "NYC liberal elite". The only reason he hates them, or pretends to is because he's always been shunned in that social group. However, no matter what he does he will NEVER from nd acceptance with them. That makes me smile.

How About No said:
Trump was never in our dimension to begin with
Click to expand...

Very true.
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
numble said:
Okay, it seems that the there is a deal to do something to resolve the DACA situation, but it doesn't seem like Trump has agreed that the Dream Act is that solution, although the Democrats insist that that is the solution.

That's the only way we can put the AP report and Trump's comments about "no amnesty" together.
Click to expand...

If they quibble about the names and definitions and details, then it can be both, like some sort of quantum agreement. This goes with what I said earlier about the dangers of conflating the idea of thinking you got what you wanted with actually getting what you wanted.
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
I expected Trump to honor it for around 3 hours before saying "i'm calling tack backsies" on twitter so i'm surprised he lasted a bit more than that lmao
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Rentahamster said:
Right, there is a precedent for it. Trump can say he's just following a Reagan model, but he'll do it "better", and talk in more generalities. That way everyone "gets" what they want. Or at least they think they do. For now.
Click to expand...

Amnesty is a dirty word with a large chunk of his voter base, regardless of what Reagan did. I'm not convinced a lot of the "drain the swamp!" crowd even like Reagan at this point. He and the GOP are sort of fucked regardless of what they do on this issue, and it's because their extreme rhetoric (they knew they were never going to be able to really deport and build a wall) is coming back to bite them in the ass.
 
N

numble

Member
Rentahamster said:
If they quibble about the names and definitions and details, then it can be both, like some sort of quantum agreement. This goes with what I said earlier about the dangers of conflating the idea of thinking you got what you wanted with actually getting what you wanted.
Click to expand...

Trump probably only knew about the details of DACA and not what is in the Dream Act (which is Reagan-style amnesty). There was a technical argument against DACA in that it was an executive action without Congressional approval.

He may have thought he was just supporting DACA implemented via law, and not the Reagan-style amnesty in the Dream Act. This may be why he says he does not support citizenship or amnesty today.
 
J

jstripes

Banned
DietRob said:
WTF is going on?!?

Not only this but just now Trump THANKED the media for their amazing coverage of the hurricane. Thanked them....

We just stopped on a new floor of bizzaro world.
Click to expand...

GbKjcHQ.gif
 
S

Surfinn

Member
Rentahamster said:
So I guess he just got $5 billion of free media coverage by accident?

http://www.mediaquant.net/2016/11/a-media-post-mortem-on-the-2016-presidential-election/
Click to expand...

Just? That article says that's an accumulation from Nov 1 2016 until now

It also says

I hesitate to use the term ”free media", because Donald Trump earned his media coverage. He earned it from his bombastic and insulting statements, he earned it from pulling in massive crowds to his rallies, and he earned it from winning primary after primary. Whether by design or accident, he bypassed paid advertising to bask in the attention and validation of a 24-hour news cycle.
Click to expand...

So it's not like he made that money because he's recently done two good things. It's cuz he's a fucking asshole and people love to cover him and reap the benefits.

Or am I missing something
 
N

norm9

Member
He already told Mexico from that phone call a while back that there will be no wall. Why is he still harping on it? He was already exposed and i thought it was common knowledge.
 
N

numble

Member
norm9 said:
He already told Mexico from that phone call a while back that there will be no wall. Why is he still harping on it? He was already exposed and i thought it was common knowledge.
Click to expand...

He did not tell Mexico there will be no wall. He told Mexico to stop saying they won't pay for it. He actually told Mexico that the wall is the most important politically for him.
 
C

conpfreak

Member
numble said:
Okay, it seems that the there is a deal to do something to resolve the DACA situation, but it doesn't seem like Trump has agreed that the Dream Act is that solution, although the Democrats insist that that is the solution.

That's the only way we can put the AP report and Trump's comments about "no amnesty" together.
Click to expand...

The way the path to citizenship currently works, if you grant DACA recipients permanent residence, they can get citizenship in 5 years from the date of being approved for a green card. If Schumer, Pelosi, and Trump can push that through, that would be amazing considering 3 three chambers are controlled by republicans. More border security and path to citizenship for DACA folks would be two big goals for immigration reform achieved.

It's a start.
 
L

Lunar15

Member
I'm woefully behind on this, but since Trump removed DACA, doesn't this deal just mean that we're going back to status quo + trump gets more money towards border security?

It's hard to say we're gaining anything here.
 
N

numble

Member
conpfreak said:
The way the path to citizenship currently works, if you grant DACA recipients permanent residence, they can get citizenship in 5 years from the date of being approved for a green card. If Schumer, Pelosi, and Trump can push that through, that would be amazing considering 3 three chambers are controlled by republicans. More border security and path to citizenship for DACA folks would be two big goals for immigration reform achieved.

It's a start.
Click to expand...

Trump just said no amnesty or citizenship, just allowing people to stay here. Everyone knows "amnesty" refers to the permanent residency granted by Reagan in the 80s. I really think now that he just supports implementing DACA as law, and not implementing the Dream Act.
 
P

Pyrokai

Member
Lunar15 said:
I'm woefully behind on this, but since Trump removed DACA, doesn't this deal just mean that we're going back to status quo + trump gets more money towards border security?

It's hard to say we're gaining anything here.
Click to expand...

At least something awful won't happen (Deportations of DACA recipients)
 
W

Wet Bloodfart

Banned
I fucking knew it – you just can't fucking rely on this fuckwit and the Dem leadership shouldn't even bother to try working with him anymore.

We have to go all in on impeachment.
 
L

Lunar15

Member
Pyrokai said:
At least something awful won't happen (Deportations of DACA recipients)
Click to expand...

I mean, yes, but doesn't that mean Trump can just hold any presidential act hostage for something in return? It seems more clear that he revoked DACA to get the dems to pledge more money for border security. He got what he wanted.
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Ninja Scooter said:
Amnesty is a dirty word with a large chunk of his voter base, regardless of what Reagan did. I'm not convinced a lot of the "drain the swamp!" crowd even like Reagan at this point. He and the GOP are sort of fucked regardless of what they do on this issue, and it's because their extreme rhetoric (they knew they were never going to be able to really deport and build a wall) is coming back to bite them in the ass.
Click to expand...
I doubt he'll use the term "amnesty" in a positive way. Bad branding. Unless he can find a way to coopt it somehow.
numble said:
Trump probably only knew about the details of DACA and not what is in the Dream Act (which is Reagan-style amnesty). There was a technical argument against DACA in that it was an executive action without Congressional approval.

He may have thought he was just supporting DACA implemented via law, and not the Reagan-style amnesty in the Dream Act. This may be why he says he does not support citizenship or amnesty today.
Click to expand...
There's still a lot of technicalities in the details that both Trump and the Democrats can wiggle around.
Surfinn said:
Just? That article says that's an accumulation from Nov 1 2016 until now

It also says



So it's not like he made that money because he's recently done two good things. It's cuz he's a fucking asshole and people love to cover him and reap the benefits.

Or am I missing something
Click to expand...

I'm not using the word "just" in the temporal sense.
 
B

Barzul

Member
It's so fucking obvious Trump wants this. Probably even path to citizenship if he could maneuver it, but I don't think he can. I think the best path for Democrats would be push to make Dreamers US Nationals with path to citizenship like exists for Green Card holders (5 years). If there's resistance, remove the path to citizenship and then it can always be re-implemented whenever Democrats have majorities.

Difference between U.S. Nationals and Citizens. It's a class of American that pretty much only applies to those in America Samoa.

https://www.immihelp.com/immigration/us-national.html
 
N

numble

Member
Barzul said:
It's so fucking obvious Trump wants this. Probably even path to citizenship if he could maneuver it, but I don't think he can. I think the best path for Democrats would be push to make Dreamers US Nationals with path to citizenship like exists for Green Card holders (5 years). If there's resistance, remove the path to citizenship and then it can always be re-implemented whenever Democrats have majorities.

Difference between U.S. Nationals and Citizens. It's a class of American that pretty much only applies to those in America Samoa.

https://www.immihelp.com/immigration/us-national.html
Click to expand...

It would just be what's in the Dream Act, which is permanent residency. There is no basis for U.S. National status, which is based on a specific territorial status.
 
B

Barzul

Member
numble said:
It would just be what's in the Dream Act, which is permanent residency. There is no basis for U.S. National status, which is based on a specific territorial status.
Click to expand...

Ah ok. I actually haven't read the act. I'd be fine with that as well. I guess my worry was that permanent resident status would be "easier" to revoke. Then again I don't know if America can elect worse than we currently have with Trump.
 
C

conpfreak

Member
numble said:
Trump just said no amnesty or citizenship, just allowing people to stay here. Everyone knows "amnesty" refers to the permanent residency granted by Reagan in the 80s. I really think now that he just supports implementing DACA as law, and not implementing the Dream Act.
Click to expand...

I assume implementing DACA into means granting Temporary Protected Status to DACA recipients. That's better than nothing, but it would be absolutely ridiculous to continue to hold that many people in TPS status indefinitely and actually write that into law.
 
R

RipperGrim

Member
Surfinn said:
Dude is finally tired of being hated?
Click to expand...

No he's just a two faced liar. Don't know how people haven't caught on yet that he just says whatever comes to mind and doesn't give a shit if it completely contradicts what he said the week before. He'll say anything if he thinks it will make the group of people currently in front of him happy.
 
legacyzero

legacyzero

Banned
ebullientprism

ebullientprism

Member
Rentahamster said:
Yes. That's how I know.


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=248959970&postcount=563
Click to expand...

JFC are we still doing the "he is a master manipulator" bit? He got that attention because he is dumb as fuck and says offensive things. Which gets high ratings when bounced around the media.

There was no master plan.

Its like saying the poo sniffing monkey video on Youtube has millions of views because the monkey is masterfully manipulating social media.

The only people dumber than Trump are the ones who buy this 4D underwater chess nonsense.
 
N

Netherscourge

Banned
1. Threaten war.
2. Sign a peace treaty.
3. Wait for your opponent to stand down.
4. Ignore the treaty and go to war anyway; use false pretense to justify breaching the treaty to your base.

Hitler used this same strategy at the outset of World War II.

Sounds like Trump is at #2 on the flow chart.
 
T

theWB27

Member
Netherscourge said:
1. Threaten war.
2. Sign a peace treaty.
3. Wait for your opponent to stand down.
4. Ignore the treaty and go to war anyway; use false pretense to justify breaching the treaty to your base.

Hitler used this same strategy at the outset of World War II.

Sounds like Trump is at #2 on the flow chart.
Click to expand...

So you're saying he's going to make it legal for DACA recipients to stay and then kick them out anyway?
 
N

Netherscourge

Banned
theWB27 said:
So you're saying he's going to make it legal for DACA recipients to stay and then kick them out anyway?
Click to expand...

Not exactly.

I believe this is all bullshit maneuvering by Trump.

He pulled DACA and forced the Dems to make a deal with him or 800K Dreamers will be deported in 6 months. That's extortion right off the bat.

So, they'll make a deal to keep them here - in exchange for hefty border security funding.

I believe the GoP and Trump will find a way to move whatever money it is into the Wall. They'll consider it part of the "border security budget package" and if need be, will out-vote the Dems in congress to shift the money to it after it's confirmed.

I don't know for sure the logistics of that, but I am convinced it will happen so long as the Republicans have a majority. I'm not even sure if they 60 votes or just a simple majority to reroute the budget money like that. May only take something as simple as redefining or re-labeling a couple items in the bill.

Bottom line - I do not trust anything Trump says or does.

He wants that Wall, even if it means keeping the 800K Dreamers here. He is trying right now to extort money for that wall by using those 800K Dreamers as bait.
 
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