I'm trying to self-define what I "second person" game is. Obviously, a third person game is where you're controlling an avatar from a perspective of a certain distance, and first person is played through "your" eyes, so would a second-person game be something like Carnage Heart or RAD, where you do not directly control the action that occurs in the game, but have a hand in its process?
Second person games
- Thread starter belgurdo
- Start date
Parallax Scroll
Banned
The stage 1 boss for Battletoads on NES was what I would consider second-person, since you see the action from the boss' perspective. There was a similar boss in Turtles in Time for SNES, though I think the camera was slightly behind Shredder's head in that case.
radios shipping overview
Member
Wonder Project J.
You could look at it this way:
First-person - self explanitory
Second-person - over-the-shoulder (what most people consider third-person now), focusing on a single person
Third-person - A farther, more omnipotent perspective, focusing on several people/characters. Like RTS games.
First-person - self explanitory
Second-person - over-the-shoulder (what most people consider third-person now), focusing on a single person
Third-person - A farther, more omnipotent perspective, focusing on several people/characters. Like RTS games.
gunstarhero
Member
Thats how I kinda see it - second person view is really what most people call a third person view when you think about it. Back up a bit and you got a third person view I guess...
<head explodes>
Yusaku said:
You could, but only if you were wrong, and didn't understand what 'first-person' and 'third-person' actually mean.
Cold Milk said:
Sounds like the closest thing to a sane definition. Although I'd prefer just to say "There's no such thing. Stop being stupid."
gunstarhero
Member
Yup. It makes more sense to me to say third person views are really second person views. Who is the "second" person in a third person view anyway?
First person = you
Second person = you, looking at your character
Third person = .....you, looking at me, looking at your character??? :/
Yusaku's explanation makes more sense, though it's technically still a second person view.
Who gives a fuck, lets play Halo.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I think they are called 3rd person because the character fights or interacts with another character making the camera the "3rd person". However, true third person game or second person game would be when you are not the charater at all. By the meaning of first person, most games are first person based on the fact that the character is you...
I think of the third person as someone who's not taking part in what's happening, but rather someone watching the events from "outside" the gaming world. The first person is obviously the main character of the game. So in this case, every character that actively take part in the game are "2nd persons". Playing from a 2nd person perspective would mean you see everything from the eyes of the other characters, enemies, whatever IN the actual game. They "are" someone in the game. That's how I see it...
in a second person game, the camera would be the view of some other person (enemy or otherwise) watching your character.
So if in Ico the entire game was played from the viewpoint of Yorda watching what Ico is doing (which when you think about it is a freaking amazing idea, though it would require much different level design), then that would have been a second person game.
So if in Ico the entire game was played from the viewpoint of Yorda watching what Ico is doing (which when you think about it is a freaking amazing idea, though it would require much different level design), then that would have been a second person game.
Kiriku said:
No, they're third persons as well. A second person would be someone you are addressing as 'you'. So potentially a second person game would be one where the screen is blank until you talk to another character, at which point you see it from their eyes until your character loses interest in them and the screen goes blank again.
Either way, it's a silly concept, and the real answer is "There is no such thing. It does not make sense."
iapetus said:
Except, as has been pointed out, for some pretty cool boss battles in games over the years.
Realistically, our concept of "3rd-person" is really very similar to "first-person" in games. True "third-person" is a game like The Sims or Simcity - where you passively interact with one or more characters, but you are not in direct control of them.
iapetus said:
OK OK, how about...a character with second person "potential" is someone in the game that you can potentially interact with?
But maybe I'm stretching the definition of 2nd person, since I was thinking more in terms of "interact with" = 2nd person, not just "talking with" = 2nd person. But even so, I can imagine it would be hard with such a view...since you can't see anything, it's hard to interact with other people. So it's up to the AI (=flop!!).
And yes, this is rather pointless.
lol.. some people in here have no clue what perspective means.
a third person game is third person because you are controlling an external entity. it isn't "you" doing it in the game but the character on the screen representing you and viewed by a disassociated entity (the camera).
the term first person was created because it was essentially "you" in the game.
and zork games were in fact first person.
second person is technically ipmpossible in games for the most part. at least in today's games. it would have to be you controlling a character but essentially "viewing" the actions from another character. an example would be a boxing game where you saw everything from your opponents perspective.
so to use the boxing game analogy
first person = seeing the action from inside the character you are controlling
second person = seeing the action from inside your opponent, or a ref, or a crowd member (though not just an external camera). it would have to be someone involved in the events of the game.
third person = seeing the action from an external camera
the difference between the second two by textbook definition is that in third person the view isn't participating in the events where as in second person the "view" is essentially part of the events.
a third person game is third person because you are controlling an external entity. it isn't "you" doing it in the game but the character on the screen representing you and viewed by a disassociated entity (the camera).
the term first person was created because it was essentially "you" in the game.
and zork games were in fact first person.
second person is technically ipmpossible in games for the most part. at least in today's games. it would have to be you controlling a character but essentially "viewing" the actions from another character. an example would be a boxing game where you saw everything from your opponents perspective.
so to use the boxing game analogy
first person = seeing the action from inside the character you are controlling
second person = seeing the action from inside your opponent, or a ref, or a crowd member (though not just an external camera). it would have to be someone involved in the events of the game.
third person = seeing the action from an external camera
the difference between the second two by textbook definition is that in third person the view isn't participating in the events where as in second person the "view" is essentially part of the events.
Jonnyboy117
Member
jiji said:
You got it. This is the only example I can think of.
radios shipping overview
Member
Well, after reconsidering, I think WPJ is pretty much first-person. The player's character is the guy that's supposed to help Pino grow up. It would be second-person if you saw through Pino's eyes and watched yourself giving him instructions.Jonnyboy117 said:
But yeah, I think the perspective doesn't make much sense for games, which is why it's never used.
definition of second person
Definition: "Second person" refers to the point of view from which a narrative is told. A story told in second person is addressed to "you" (see example, below). This point of view is very difficult to use effectively; if the reader feels that the story is addressed to them, that they are being told what they supposedly did, they will find it very hard to believe in the story.
Example: You got in your car and drove away. You were so angry you could hardly focus on the road, and eventually you had to pull over and calm down. You didn't want to run over some poor pedestrian just because all you could see was red.
in gaming this would refer to seeing the game through the eyes of another character that you're not controlling.
since this would be a quite fucked up way to control a character, there aren't any games that I can think of that are like that.
Definition: "Second person" refers to the point of view from which a narrative is told. A story told in second person is addressed to "you" (see example, below). This point of view is very difficult to use effectively; if the reader feels that the story is addressed to them, that they are being told what they supposedly did, they will find it very hard to believe in the story.
Example: You got in your car and drove away. You were so angry you could hardly focus on the road, and eventually you had to pull over and calm down. You didn't want to run over some poor pedestrian just because all you could see was red.
in gaming this would refer to seeing the game through the eyes of another character that you're not controlling.
since this would be a quite fucked up way to control a character, there aren't any games that I can think of that are like that.
DavidDayton said:
umm, no, you're controlling the main character in all of those games ...
EDIT: I see your point about text games, but that's not really the case. You still control directly the actions the character takes, the information is relayed to you in a story form because there's no graphical component so to speak. If you were to take the stance that they were second-person games, then pretty much every game ever made is a second-person game because they all involve some sort of feedback to the player (whether it is text-based or graphics-based).