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[DiipuSurotu]

Absolutely, yes. Now, what's less discussed is that Secret of Mana, Final Fantasy IV, and Chrono Trigger were all originally planned to be the same game. That's right, two decades before Final Fantasy XV, Secret of Mana was originally going to be the first main-series Final Fantasy game to become an action RPG:

http://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-iv-secret-of-mana-and-chrono-trigger-had-a-connection/



This might explain why Square-recruited American Apple II programming guru Nasir Gebelli ("PROGRAMMED BY NASIR," you know what I'm talking about) programmed the bulk of the mathy parts of Famicom Final Fantasys I-III and Secret of Mana, but not the released Final Fantasy IV. It also goes without saying that Randi and Primm look and act a helluva lot like Crono and Marle.

Yup. Tanaka told more about the Secret of Mana/Chrono Trigger connection in the "Seiken Densetsu Music Complete Book" OST compilation. The project was originally titled Maru Island.

[...]upon getting word from Nintendo that they were developing a CD-ROM adapter for the Super Famicom, we decided to start a project in a different direction from Final Fantasy IV, which at the time was in the middle of development and was touted as a next-generation RPG fitting the large storage capacity the new cartridges had. The development codename for the new project was Maru Island, and we were making it as a collaboration work with Akira Toriyama-sensei after we established contact through Shueisha. I frequently ran back to the office just to receive and look at the screen mock-ups that Toriyama-sensei did in the initial stages of the project.

Despite that, the CD-ROM adapter was never completed. Once everyone learned that the CD-ROM adapter was never going to see a release, they decided to abandon everything that had been planned for development since the very start, including Toriyama-sensei's contributions, and decided to revise the project in order to make it release into a ROM cassette. We said that we would wait for the CD-ROM to make a collaboration project with Toriyama-sensei, but when it was revised, it actually became an entirely different project with an entirely different direction. That was what later on was completed into the game we know as Chrono Trigger.

Thanks to the high speed of the ROM, it was possible to seamlessly make the action visible in the field without the need to make a transition into a battle screen. But in the end, the new RPG I wanted to start making — one that didn't have a command-style battle system (Motion Battle System) and tested the reflexes of the players — wasn't a title that existed at the moment.

Upon seeing that my goal was to make an action RPG, and learning that an ARPG was the next game we were going to make, I decided to make it into a sequel for Seiken Densetsu, so we reestructured everything to use the world setting we had already from the previous game, and Seiken Densetsu 2 was finally completed.

The male and female heroes of both game really do look alike:

Additionally, the concept of the Mana Fortress and that of the Black Omen are similar, and Secret of Mana's producer/director/battle designer Hiromichi Tanaka went on to become the producer/battle designer of Chrono Cross, while the director of Chrono Cross Masato Kato went on to become the scenario writer of the World of Mana.

 

[Jack_AG]

Sometimes I wish I can go back in time to re-experience this game for the first time.

 

[BluWacky]

Because Chrono Trigger didn't come out in the UK for about a year after the US release i bought it assuming it was a Secret of Mana sequel.

Chrono Trigger didn't come out in the UK until fourteen years after its US release I had no idea that Secret of Mana even had a PAL release on the SNES!

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Man, Secret of Mana really is one of my fondest gaming memories. I still have my SNES copy (although only the cartridge has survived these 20 years) and have replayed it more times than I can count. It's a blast alone and magical with the right friends. I'm terribly biased but I'm just soo in love with every aspect of this game, even the grinding for magic levels is a fond memory for me

To think that Square went from Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI to their latest offerings. For shame.

shame that most of the big japanese companies have pissed away there talent.

Aside from Miyamoto and Nintendo, Capcom, Konami, Square, and Tecmo have lost most or all the developers that got them the success and brand recognition they have... and now they are suffering for it.

 

[danielcw]

need to play this in english. the german translation was godawful!

The German translation is based on the English one.

And it is not awful

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

The male and female heroes of both game really do look alike:

yeah reading this years later blew my mind.

Now I know why I felt so drawn to the first CT screenshots I saw (that featured the main character) in my Nintendo Power.

 

[140.85]

I know what I'm doing tonight.

 

[Pandacon]

One of my favorite games of all time. Unfortunately my SNES no longer works, but I did buy it for my Wii VC, so, I can always play it there.

 

[CorvoSol]

Yes! My deal to have a SNES cartridge with the ENG translated version of SOM 2 is back on the plate! Cannot wait to have this.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

My favorite game of all time.
The music is sensational.


Unfortunately it doesn't hold up today because the pathfinding and AI are so awful. The game is too difficult IMO.

 

[140.85]

Looking forward to this.

www.spectrumofmana.com

http://youtu.be/J_droFUbdvw

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

I know what I'm doing tonight.

Awesome . My copy is in my parents' attic somewhere probably. I don't have the CD but I'm going to have to hunt one down.

My favorite game of all time.
The music is sensational.


Unfortunately it doesn't hold up today because the pathfinding and AI are so awful. The game is too difficult IMO.

It being an RPG that you can play together with friends makes the game hold up. It's not like it has been replaced by better co-op RPGs. There's just no other games like it. Or, if there are, please let me know so I can buy them .

Edit: But yeah, the pathfinding is nonexistent

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

I remember the day I came home from school to find that my mom somehow got her hands on a large stash of Super Nintendo games. It was the first time my mom actually bought new games for me (everything we had to play was owned when I born). Among those games was Secret of Mana.

I didn't understand it at the time, but she must have bought them second-hand because many games already had files. Secret of Mana had a file for Jeff, so I always named the main character Jeff.

This game was so magical for me. The music was phenomenal from the start, and I always played with my sister. I remember getting the girl before getting the sprite. When that happened, she would run away when you traveled to the sprite's home. To get her back, we had to go to the forest and fight those wolf monsters. I could never beat them, so I had to restart and get the sprite first. Oh, man, I remember when those bats would cast Balloon on me, and I always thought I was the one casting Balloon somehow.

My sister and I also had trouble with the Wall boss and Blue Spiky Tiger boss in particular. I loved that creepy castle with the characters who didn't speak to us. It was awesome fighting our clones. I was always the hero and had the sword. My sister was always the girl and had the axe. The sprite always had the spear. It was interesting seeing the glove's charged attacks from the girl clone.

I also remember first finding Flammie. The king asked us a question, but the game went on without allowing us to answer. I didn't realize it at the time, but as a child I thought I accidentally chose the wrong answer. I believed that was why the king wouldn't give me Flammie. I had no idea that we weren't meant to obtain him at that time.

I remember thinking that my stats were unbelievably high before getting destroyed in Pure Land (was that what it was called?) where we found Thunder Gigas. I was so hyped when this started playing when I summoned Flammie one day. I love most, if not all, the songs in Secret of Mana.

I have such fond memories of this game. It's definitely one of my favorite games of all time and one of those games that defined my childhood.

 

[DonMigs85]

Boss battles were a cinch if you had enough Fairy Walnuts and rapidly spammed magic attacks before the bosses can even react.

 

[CorvoSol]

Yo but the final battle of Secret of Mana was hard as hell. Keeping supplied on MP to keep Excalibur existing was a chore.

Otherwise, damn do I love these games. You know what I like most about Sword, Secret, and Secret 2? The environments. Seriously, with all due respect to Chrono and Final Fantasy, the Mana series was the scenery porn of Square's games. Everywhere you went was colorful, beautiful and detailed. When I got to the Glass Desert in SD3 my mind was blown. When I wandered Gaea's Navel I was in love.

The environments of the Mana series are amazing.

 

[DonMigs85]

Yo but the final battle of Secret of Mana was hard as hell. Keeping supplied on MP to keep Excalibur existing was a chore.

Otherwise, damn do I love these games. You know what I like most about Sword, Secret, and Secret 2? The environments. Seriously, with all due respect to Chrono and Final Fantasy, the Mana series was the scenery porn of Square's games. Everywhere you went was colorful, beautiful and detailed. When I got to the Glass Desert in SD3 my mind was blown. When I wandered Gaea's Navel I was in love.

The environments of the Mana series are amazing.

I agree, very rich and organic. They didn't look so obviously tile-based as in the FF games.
Same goes for Evermore and Chrono Trigger.

 

[Square2015]

Absolutely, yes. Now, what's less discussed is that Secret of Mana, Final Fantasy IV, and Chrono Trigger were all originally planned to be the same game. That's right, two decades before Final Fantasy XV, Secret of Mana was originally going to be the first main-series Final Fantasy game to become an action RPG:

http://legendsoflocalization.com/fin...-a-connection/

This might explain why Square-recruited American Apple II programming guru Nasir Gebelli ("PROGRAMMED BY NASIR," you know what I'm talking about) programmed the bulk of the mathy parts of Famicom Final Fantasys I-III and Secret of Mana, but not the released Final Fantasy IV. It also goes without saying that Randi and Primm look and act a helluva lot like Crono and Marle.

...
[...]upon getting word from Nintendo that they were developing a CD-ROM adapter for the Super Famicom, we decided to start a project in a different direction from Final Fantasy IV, which at the time was in the middle of development and was touted as a next-generation RPG fitting the large storage capacity the new cartridges had. The development codename for the new project was Maru Island, and we were making it as a collaboration work with Akira Toriyama-sensei after we established contact through Shueisha. I frequently ran back to the office just to receive and look at the screen mock-ups that Toriyama-sensei did in the initial stages of the project.

Despite that, the CD-ROM adapter was never completed. Once everyone learned that the CD-ROM adapter was never going to see a release, they decided to abandon everything that had been planned for development since the very start, including Toriyama-sensei's contributions, and decided to revise the project in order to make it release into a ROM cassette. We said that we would wait for the CD-ROM to make a collaboration project with Toriyama-sensei, but when it was revised, it actually became an entirely different project with an entirely different direction. That was what later on was completed into the game we know as Chrono Trigger.

Thanks to the high speed of the ROM, it was possible to seamlessly make the action visible in the field without the need to make a transition into a battle screen. But in the end, the new RPG I wanted to start making — one that didn't have a command-style battle system (Motion Battle System) and tested the reflexes of the players — wasn't a title that existed at the moment.

Upon seeing that my goal was to make an action RPG, and learning that an ARPG was the next game we were going to make, I decided to make it into a sequel for Seiken Densetsu, so we reestructured everything to use the world setting we had already from the previous game, and Seiken Densetsu 2 was finally completed.

So development went like this:
in 1990:
FFIII release [April]
|
late 1990: start development of FFIV [for FC originally] & FFV for SFC
|
new game idea: Maru Island collaboration with Akira Toriyama [for SFC Sony CD-ROM]
|
FFIV shifted to SFC and to be action RPG
|
1991: Sony CD-ROM canceled; Maru Island splinters into two projects:
|
one with continued collab w/ Toriyama, and the other action RPG idea [FFIV] is shifted into a Seiken Densetsu sequel.
|
1993: Secret of Mana is the result
|
1993: Sony CD-ROM becomes the Sony PlayStation, rel'd following year
|
1994-95: the other collab w Toriyama project becomes the "Dream Team" and Chrono Trigger is birthed.
|
Seiken Densetsu sequel [3] was also planned originally for a canceled system thus the reason for the glitches and why localization was canceled.

Is this right?


Also Seiken Densetsu was first announced in 1987 I believe as a FC DS title, before FF1 I believe, pre-order taking was even promoted, of course it was later shifted to GB.

 

[Wolf Dawgz]

Weird to think that this is my favourite game, yet it is older then me. One of the first games I ever beat and I beat it with my brother. The game compared to what I played was an epic. Many boss fights, different magics, awesome music.

Makes me sad that the franchise has been mismanaged since Seiken Densetsu 3. The series had a lot of potential as a co op RPG. Even now it's still praised because nothing really does what the franchise did in the action RPG and co op genre.

 

[Natetan]

The feels

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf58TiGtIe4

 

[I am Christina Aguilera]

So development went like this:
in 1990:
FFIII release [April]
|
late 1990: start development of FFIV [for FC originally] & FFV for SFC
|
new game idea: Maru Island collaboration with Akira Toriyama [for SFC Sony CD-ROM]
|
FFIV shifted to SFC and to be action RPG
|
1991: Sony CD-ROM canceled; Maru Island splinters into two projects:
|
one with continued collab w/ Toriyama, and the other action RPG idea [FFIV] is shifted into a Seiken Densetsu sequel.
|
1993: Secret of Mana is the result
|
1993: Sony CD-ROM becomes the Sony PlayStation, rel'd following year
|
1994-95: the other collab w Toriyama project becomes the "Dream Team" and Chrono Trigger is birthed.
|
Seiken Densetsu sequel [3] was also planned originally for a canceled system thus the reason for the glitches and why localization was canceled.

Is this right?


Also Seiken Densetsu was first announced in 1987 I believe as a FC DS title, before FF1 I believe, pre-order taking was even promoted, of course it was later shifted to GB.

Yeah, something like that? It sounds like they might not have considered the change in gameplay for FFIV for that long before they went in a more orthodox direction and the action RPG became the separate Maru Island/"Chrono Trigger" project. I think that the released FFIV must have been most of the way to complete by the time that the Sony SNES CD-ROM was canceled. Square must have been awfully busy during 1990-1991.

I hadn't heard that SD3 was originally planned for another console! I just knew that it was(/is) glitchy and that Squaresoft USA had misgivings about its chances making it past Nintendo of America's QA without significant fixes.

Here's a link with info on both FFIV's brief theorized existence as a FC game (I'm unsure how this does or doesn't intersect with the FFIV-as-action RPG plan) and Seiken Densetsu's original incarnation as a presumably unrelated FDS RPG:
http://www.lostlevels.org/200311/200311-square.shtml

 

[derwalde]

NoE give us the WiiU version already!

 

[Katsuragi]

I remember reading the preview in the Club Nintendo magazine over and over. Secret of Mana was my most anticipated game! I was so happy when I finally unwrapped the game on Christmas.

 

[mr_toa]

I know what I'm doing tonight.

Fabulous .

Really wish that I had proper hardware to give this gem a spin once more.

 

[JonnyBrad]

Chrono Trigger didn't come out in the UK until fourteen years after its US release I had no idea that Secret of Mana even had a PAL release on the SNES!

SoM definitely did I have the cart here my copy of CT was a NA one. Which is why I knew so little about it as it was not reviewed by any UK magazines.

 

[Bruno MB]

Secret of Mana is my favorite game of all time. It also was the title that introduced me to the world of Japanese role-playing games.

I'm glad to see that my copy still works and all my saves haven't been erased yet

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

Secret of Mana is my favorite game of all time. It also was the title that introduced me to the world of Japanese role-playing games.

I'm glad to see that my copy still works and all my saves haven't been erased yet

I heartily endorse this post

 

[sixteen-bit]

The feels

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf58TiGtIe4

Game had an awesome soundtrack.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Looking forward to this.
Spectrum of Mana: A Secret of Mana Fan Album Project Coming Fall 2013

Final Fantasy and Metroid OCM remixes got their own thread

This deserves it's own thread

 

[Phat Michael]

Sometimes I wish I can go back in time to re-experience this game for the first time.

Remember the music when you first turn on the game? Or the music when you load your saved game? That shit is so timeless and ingrained on my brain.

 

[StarCreator]

*farms Mana Fortress for weapon orbs for 10 hours*

*no chests drop*

*cries*

That beats farming for 10 hours, getting weapon orbs, then getting stuck in a wall before you can leave the fortress to save.

 

[spekkeh]

The co-op is what makes this game one of my favorites. I can't believe there aren't more co-op RPGs where everyone plays as one of the characters in the story.

This. So much this. My favorite JRPGs of all time are Secret of Mana and Tales of Symphonia (of course SoM > ToS, and SoM is probably top 3 of my all time favorites). RPGs are infinitely better when you can share the experience with offline coop. Of course being ARPG also helps, never could get into turn based battles.

 

[sugarless]

Flammie's Flight 01

Just listened to this for the first time in ages and it hit me right in the feels. I defy anyone who played the game at the time not to get a massive smile on their face when the music kicks in.

 

[sugarless]

I heartily endorse this post

Although he should be setting the TV to 4:3 mode ^^

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

The feels

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf58TiGtIe4

This always does it for me.

Incredible how a 32 second composition on loop can stick with you for decades.

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

Although he should be setting the TV to 4:3 mode ^^

Haha yeah . Though I have to admit I've been replaying it stretched like this :/

 

[Zing]

How many of you gushing for this game are/were in the UK or Europe? As an American at the time, it felt like a good game, but it was just the expected Squaresoft RPG. I recently read through the whole set of British Super Play magazines and I was surprised at how much they constantly mentioned and jizzed their pants over this game. I got the feeling that it was one of the few RPGs they played, or maybe it was the game that brought the RPG genre to Europe.

 

[Jakabok]

Am I right in remembering that when you maxed out your magic you got special animations? Like with Shadow hundreds of little black dudes would run over the screen? Cause I swear I remember this happening but when I tried to show my mate I couldn't get them to appear again - another glitch?

 

[spekkeh]

European here. Also read Super Play, erm.
Not sure if it was the first Square game I played (I did play Mystic Quest, but probably after), I think so though. So that could factor into it. I started playing it coming off Zelda LttP (I know they're different, but being eleven years old they tickled the same fantasy), and liked it infinitely more, to the point where I still don't get the hype for LttP. Probably should rttp lttp to see it unbiased one time.
Also still liked SoM more than FF3/6 and even Chrono Trigger. But like I said, coop and arpg play a huge part in it.

 

[140.85]

Still makes me LOL.

 

[Fullmetal-GTO]

Still have this game on my shelf right next to Illusion of Time and Zelda: A Link to the Past. 20 years go by so fast!

 

[Raitaro]

How many of you gushing for this game are/were in the UK or Europe? As an American at the time, it felt like a good game, but it was just the expected Squaresoft RPG. I recently read through the whole set of British Super Play magazines and I was surprised at how much they constantly mentioned and jizzed their pants over this game. I got the feeling that it was one of the few RPGs they played, or maybe it was the game that brought the RPG genre to Europe.

While you make a fair point, for me (as a Dutch person) this game felt unique in that it featured real time combat, a top-down view, and a mostly interconnected world.

There never were that many games with these qualities, apart from LttP, some Quintet games and the later released Secret of Evermore. So, just for this fact alone, every Zelda fan flocked to this game, as did every Square fan who were just happy to get any game from them in Europe. I imported my copy by the way, as most of Square's releases took far too long to wait for.

 

[MrKayle]

never played this because... I'm waiting for my waifu. dat matrimonial co-op.

 

[Tex117]

The feels

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf58TiGtIe4

This song still goes through my head when it is very cold and still 20 years later.

 

[Beezy]

I have so much love for this game.

 

[Verilligo]

Am I right in remembering that when you maxed out your magic you got special animations? Like with Shadow hundreds of little black dudes would run over the screen? Cause I swear I remember this happening but when I tried to show my mate I couldn't get them to appear again - another glitch?

Yes, that's one of the "critical" animation for Evil Gate, I think that one actually has more than one. But yes, at 9:X for each element, you have a chance of triggering a screen-pausing strengthened version of a spell.

 

[lsslave]

Her superior name is Purim. Also time for my annual playthrough I think!

 

[xelios]

One of my favorite games and memories. I remember clear as day getting this for SNES as a child (it was really expensive, too) and my father and I finished the entire game together co-op.

 

[Morfeo]

How many of you gushing for this game are/were in the UK or Europe? As an American at the time, it felt like a good game, but it was just the expected Squaresoft RPG. I recently read through the whole set of British Super Play magazines and I was surprised at how much they constantly mentioned and jizzed their pants over this game. I got the feeling that it was one of the few RPGs they played, or maybe it was the game that brought the RPG genre to Europe.

RPG's were not really common here back then, but the magazines I read also imported stuff, so we knew about Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger and even Dragon Quest even though they never released here, and it was also fairly easy to get an adaptor to play those games, so Secret of Mana wasnt that special even for us.

 

[CorvoSol]

This series has inspired some good art:

I agree, very rich and organic. They didn't look so obviously tile-based as in the FF games.
Same goes for Evermore and Chrono Trigger.

I like Evermore and CT's, but Mana for me is synonymous with it. Nothing looks better than the environs in Mana. The whole series is so beautifully done. Sometimes people tell me that games made with pixels are cliched nowadays, but when I look at games done with the looks of Mana, I think we could stand more of their ilk.

I also really like the music from Sword of Mana:

Mana Sanctuary
Endless Battlefield
Courage and Pride

Indeed, Sword of Mana is probably the last good Mana Game, and the best one to come out of the World of Mana project.

 

[djtiesto]

One of the most stunning game soundtracks ever... it's a shame the Mana series was dragged through the mud and defiled to the point where it's now dead.