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[Sosokrates]

You're right and wrong at the same time. You said you should train in the 4 - 10 rep range. I would argue that everything above 6 is not focused on pure strength, but of course it's still good to train in different rep ranges.

When talking about strength you also can not come up with bodybuilders. While they're crazy strong (gear + dedication), they do not compare to strong men like Brian Shaw, Eddie Hall and many more. Most of the time these guys train in a rep range from 1 to 6, because they do this sport for strength. If they would mostly train the main lifts in higher rep ranges they would not be able to compete anymore.

Ultimately, gear plays a big part here, too, but that's a whole other topic,

I should of clarified when I say "train for strength" it's not just about rep range but also how you execute an exercise, a powerful positive and a negative which feels strong and natural not 3-5 seconds down.
Your can still "train for strength" for 6,8 or 10 rep sets, it is still the goal to add small amounts of wieghts each session, it's basically progressive overload.
Many youtubers and even pro physique competitors focus to much on squeezing the muscles, drops sets etc
You say you can still focus and squeeze the muscle while trying to get stronger but it will give slower strength gains and there for slower muscle growth, especially for beginners/naturals.

Note I'm talking about what I prefer, it's going to be different for other people, but I never said it would not be.....

But for a natural lifter who just wants a good body and still be strong and functional for life progressive overload on compound movements and even accessories (should also focus on getting stronger on tricep movements and shoulders, it gets tricky with things like rear delts because there's going to be a limit to how strong you get.
Also eventually strength is going to tap out, but ppl should worry about that when they can incline bench 1.5x there bodyweight for 5 reps, doing 5 Wighted chin ups with 1.5x there bodyweight

 

[betrayal]

I should of clarified when I say "train for strength" it's not just about rep range but also how you execute an exercise, a powerful positive and a negative which feels strong and natural not 3-5 seconds down.
Your can still "train for strength" for 6,8 or 10 rep sets, it is still the goal to add small amounts of wieghts each session, it's basically progressive overload.
Many youtubers and even pro physique competitors focus to much on squeezing the muscles, drops sets etc
You say you can still focus and squeeze the muscle while trying to get stronger but it will give slower strength gains and there for slower muscle growth, especially for beginners/naturals.

I acutally never said anything with "squeezing the muscle". It can have benefits for some isolation movements, but what i previously said was, that you can focus on the feeling within the 8-10 rep range, which from my experience is totally true after some months or years. Of course i do not talk about compound movements, but about isolated exercises. Beginners should focus on the core movements and pushing the weight on the bar on a regular basis without compromising technique, just like you said.

I agree that training for strength has lots of variables, but heigher weights (~80%+ of your 1RM) and explosive positives and a slow eccentric will automatically put you into a lower rep range.

 

[Vicetrailia]

got something easy for you
dont count calories...dont try any fad diets or programs that require you fasting the key to weight loss and getting in shape is diet and you can easy mode this

I simply used chicken/tuna and veg/rice/salad for all my meals and simply added in fruit and a protien shake in between if i was feeling hungry...its really that simple
as for exercise start out walking and try and complete a basic 10 set of pushups/situps/lunge and a static hold...after each walk add another 5 to the sets

80% of you getting fit is diet.....you get that right and even if your doing a half assed job in exercise you will see more improvement
your gonna have to switch off from counting the numbers...its not going to be an exact science and you will never be focusing on the right things

You can add in steel cut oats for fiber/fullness. Feel free to add egg to meals. If you have high blood pressure by genetics relax on the salt. Generally relax on the salt.

 

[Sosokrates]

I acutally never said anything with "squeezing the muscle". It can have benefits for some isolation movements, but what i previously said was, that you can focus on the feeling within the 8-10 rep range, which from my experience is totally true after some months or years. Of course i do not talk about compound movements, but about isolated exercises. Beginners should focus on the core movements and pushing the weight on the bar on a regular basis without compromising technique, just like you said.

I agree that training for strength has lots of variables, but heigher weights (~80%+ of your 1RM) and explosive positives and a slow eccentric will automatically put you into a lower rep range.

Yeah what I'm saying is don't focus "on the feeling"
Have good form and the you will get better at performing the exercise with practice, but it's pretty pointless to try and "feel" the muscle more, for the goals I outlined.
I think you are applying things for your own goals on to me.
Remember I am preaching functionality aswell as muscle growth. Muscle growth is not my only goal, however with that said the amount if muscle growth you will get from "feeling" the muscle is minimal compared to strength gains.

 

[betrayal]

I think you are applying things for your own goals on to me.

What i'm thinking is that genereally we're probably on the same boat.

Compound movements and progressive overload. For isolated movement progressive overload and, depending on the exercise and target muscle, feeling. This is especially important for beginners, because if you ever work with or see beginners doing things like flys, triceps/biceps work, rear/side delts etc., if you don't feel the muslce, chances are you probably using a lot of the other muscles, which should not do the main work during the movements. You're obviously no beginner anymore, so you probably should know, that beginners should feel the targeted muscle during isolated movements. Besides common sense, e.g. chest flys should be done and felt with/in the chest and not shoulders or the triceps, there are lots of studies out there showing the benefit of "feeling a muscle" during specific (mostly) isolated movements.

 

[Sosokrates]

What i'm thinking is that genereally we're probably on the same boat.

Compound movements and progressive overload. For isolated movement progressive overload and, depending on the exercise and target muscle, feeling. This is especially important for beginners, because if you ever work with or see beginners doing things like flys, triceps/biceps work, rear/side delts etc., if you don't feel the muslce, chances are you probably using a lot of the other muscles, which should not do the main work during the movements. You're obviously no beginner anymore, so you probably should know, that beginners should feel the targeted muscle during isolated movements. Besides common sense, e.g. chest flys should be done and felt with/in the chest and not shoulders or the triceps, there are lots of studies out there showing the benefit of "feeling a muscle" during specific (mostly) isolated movements.

I hear this a lot, but I think to much emphasis is put on absolutely perfect form, but in real life the body and our muscle actually don't work like that.

Take a chin up for example if it's a heavy weighted chin up, you will not feel your biceps burning, but your bicep fibres actually have more activation then doing perfect form bicep curls so your biceps burn.

Also in day to day tasks people never really "feel" there muscles.

 

[Tesseract]

i train for endurance, strength comes along for the ride

perfect form is for beginners, muscle memory will do the rest

 

[sonomamashine]

i train for endurance, strength comes along for the ride

perfect form is for beginners, muscle memory will do the rest

share some routines with us, show us your body & cut the head.

 

[betrayal]

I hear this a lot, but I think to much emphasis is put on absolutely perfect form, but in real life the body and our muscle actually don't work like that.

Take a chin up for example if it's a heavy weighted chin up, you will not feel your biceps burning, but your bicep fibres actually have more activation then doing perfect form bicep curls so your biceps burn.

Chin-ups are a compound move and a special case in regards of muscle activation, because bio-mechanically it's clear that they have a high activation of the bicep compared to a curl (cable curls and concentration curls are still better btw).
Perfect form is the single most important factor for muscle activation, growth, endurence and strength. Bio-mechanically there is no way around this and there are literally thousands of studies that explain why this is the case. Of course, as an advanced lifter, you don't need and want perfect form for every single movement. It's ok to cheat every now and then to get you through some phases of the movement, which are not that important, but you should not overdo this, because it will take its toll on the long run (10-30 years+) and increases the risk of injury.

Also in day to day tasks people never really "feel" there muscles.

Because the weight or number of repetitions of a movement is too low? ... Just think about the formula W = F * a. At the end it's physics and biomechanics and no magic trick, mantra or belief which grows your muslces.
Kneel down a hundred times, just extend you arms thousands of time or whatever...you will feel the muscles involved just like you would by using weights. As you probably now volume is one of the major key factors for muslce growth.

 

[Jaffaboy]

Download the app Myfitnesspal.

You enter your weight and height, and then it asks you what your goals are and how quick you would like to reach them. Then it'll calculate your recommended calories a day to reach that goal comfortably and in a healthy way.

Then you can simply enter in the food you eat, either searching for it, scanning the bar code, or entering it yourself. What I've liked about it is that I haven't had to drastically change what I eat because I had a balanced diet already, but it's given me an idea of the calorific intake of the food I've been eating and so I can adjust accordingly. By doing it this way, it's meant that I haven't felt like I've had to punish myself when it comes to making choices with my food so much, but it's helped me to reduce the bad eating habits I didn't realise I had before (picking things out of the fridge randomly, or eating to excess for no reason). You can also review your macros and nutrition which is useful.

The app also let's you enter your exercise, create your own routines, and you can connect your fitbit to it too.

Alongside it I've also been fasting by skipping breakfast with a 16:8 fast. I've found it's easier to meet my calorie goals this way, not sure how much it has contributed to weight loss but I'm continuing it until I reach my goal weight. If you're thinking about fasting, drink plenty of water.

I'm 5'11 and started at 90kg at the beginning of August. I'm now just under 84kg with a goal of 80kg, and eating 1800 calories a day. I do moderate exercise, usually walking and playing golf every week. Just to give you an idea. Whatever method you choose, good luck in your goals!

 

[Greedings]

In this thread:
People regurgitating things they heard in the 1990s.

No carbs after 6 pm? What a fucking mess.

 

[Sosokrates]

Chin-ups are a compound move and a special case in regards of muscle activation, because bio-mechanically it's clear that they have a high activation of the bicep compared to a curl (cable curls and concentration curls are still better btw).
Perfect form is the single most important factor for muscle activation, growth, endurence and strength. Bio-mechanically there is no way around this and there are literally thousands of studies that explain why this is the case. Of course, as an advanced lifter, you don't need and want perfect form for every single movement. It's ok to cheat every now and then to get you through some phases of the movement, which are not that important, but you should not overdo this, because it will take its toll on the long run (10-30 years+) and increases the risk of injury.





Because the weight or number of repetitions of a movement is too low? ... Just think about the formula W = F * a. At the end it's physics and biomechanics and no magic trick, mantra or belief which grows your muslces.
Kneel down a hundred times, just extend you arms thousands of time or whatever...you will feel the muscles involved just like you would by using weights. As you probably now volume is one of the major key factors for muslce growth.

You have proof that cable and concentration curls have more bicep activation then chin ups?

To be fair this is a widely debated topic
They lay it out in this video here.



It's also worth noting that I train for strength and performance, I don't want to have D.O.M.S all the time and want to be strong for work.

And yes repetions will get a latic acid response, but when people lift stuff in real life they lift things in a way which is as easy as possible, lifting in a more natural way in the gym will translate better to lifting in day to day lift.