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[A Black Falcon]

how are the lock on lasers limiting? or gimmicky? calling LS gimmicky in the face of Ikaruga seems so backwards to me.

The difference is that Ikaruga's 'gimmick' actually works, which isn't so true for Xevious/etc's ground-targeting system. The problem is that cursor, in a vertical shmup I want to be able to hit everything in front of me, not only things at one specific point uncomfortably close to my ship. Xevious, Dragon Spirit, Galactic Attack, Soukyugurentai, it's a common design but I've never liked it much. Souky is probably the best of those games, but it's still flawed and kind of annoying.

The Genesis and SNES versions are mostly the same. They lose out on Sheeva, but gain Noob Saibot and Rain. Mileena, Ermac, and Sub-Zero don't need to be unlocked in the 16-bit versions, and its even possible to unlock either Motaro or Shao Khan. Saturn version has more stages though.

Apparently Shang Tsung can morph into more characters in the Genesis version than the SNES one. Don't quote me on that, though.

Ah. I don't follow MK enough to know these things, I never was an MK fan, and what little I did play of the series in the '90s pretty much stopped with MK2. I got UMK3 back in '09 because I saw a complete copy for $3... you don't see deals like that anymore, everyone goes by ebay values. Too bad.

Oh and boo at Super Hang-on hate.

Once in a while I try to play one of those games again, thinking 'are they REALLY that unplayable'... but they are. That super-low framerate with horribly choppy fake scaling is horrible!

 

[blast processed]

I never was an MK fan, and what little I did play of the series in the '90s pretty much stopped with MK2.
I got UMK3 back in '09

Want to sell that copy, since its sitting on your shelf untouched?

Also, I picked up Powerslave and started playing thought it. Surprisingly the controls using the dpad work quite well. The analog option is there, but using the dpad to move and the triggers to strife is great. I haven't touched this game since it launched on the PC, so it's been cool revisiting it.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Also, I picked up Powerslave and started playing thought it. Surprisingly the controls using the dpad work quite well. The analog option is there, but using the dpad to move and the triggers to strife is great. I haven't touched this game since it launched on the PC, so it's been cool revisiting it.

Technically the Saturn and PC versions of Powerslave are completely different games, so you're not exactly revisiting it per se...

 

[Khaz]

Also, I picked up Powerslave and started playing thought it. Surprisingly the controls using the dpad work quite well. The analog option is there, but using the dpad to move and the triggers to strife is great. I haven't touched this game since it launched on the PC, so it's been cool revisiting it.

A Saturn controller is very efficient for Doom-likes (that don't need vertical accuracy), I prefer it than using a keyboard-only in these games.

 

[MikeMyers]

Once in a while I try to play one of those games again, thinking 'are they REALLY that unplayable'... but they are. That super-low framerate with horribly choppy fake scaling is horrible!

You and I wont get along on this subject I'm afraid.

I love Super Hang-On. I listen to the music for it while driving to University and back home.

 

[blast processed]

Technically the Saturn and PC versions of Powerslave are completely different games, so you're not exactly revisiting it per se...

You sure about that? I could have sworn I've played this before. The first 2 levels look really familiar. Maybe I'm losing it. Lol

Edit: Ok I just looked it up. I must have played part of the the Playstation version because, Tomb of Ramses and Karnak are pretty similar. Im not sure about the rest of the game.

Edit 2: Now I remember. I played the Shareware version on PC. Still, for an FPS this game plays really well.

 

[Genesis Knight]

A Saturn controller is very efficient for Doom-likes (that don't need vertical accuracy), I prefer it than using a keyboard-only in these games.

I've always thought it too bad that Saturn Quake and Duke3D are so technically impressive but so difficult to play. At least we have Powerslave, it DOES work pretty well on the 3D controller.

 

[MikeMyers]

What's the difference between the Saturn and PSX versions of DOA1 besides the latter having Bass and Ayane?

 

[Timu]

What's the difference between the Saturn and PSX versions of DOA1 besides the latter having Bass and Ayane?

The Saturn version had a higher resolution I believe.

 

[A Black Falcon]

What's the difference between the Saturn and PSX versions of DOA1 besides the latter having Bass and Ayane?

The Saturn version has better graphics, as the arcade game ran on Sega hardware so the port to Saturn was fairly easy. Perhaps to make up for its later release and not-as-nice graphics, the Playstation version has more than twice as many costumes (the Saturn has no more than 5-7 per character, while on PS1 there are up to 15 costumes per character, more for the female characters and less for the male ones as usual in the series), different (and not quite as good looking) stage backgrounds, and the two new characters you mention. I got both versions because they are different enough to both be worth playing, if you like the series anyway (as I do). I like the PS1 version for its added characters (Ayane is my favorite character in most DoA games) and many added costumes, but the Saturn version looks a bit nicer and controls better with the default controllers for each system, though of course there are plenty of options for the PS1 that are better than a standard PS1/PS2 gamepad.

 

[sixteen-bit]

These are cute
http://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201509110020/

 

[AniHawk]

by the way, today's the last day to vote in the gen 5 threads for the games and the soundtracks:

games: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1096107
soundtracks: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1096830

a couple sega saturn games are close to breaking into what will be the first post (the top 25), but so far no saturn games have made it in.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

a couple sega saturn games are close to breaking into what will be the first post (the top 25), but so far no saturn games have made it in.

That is fucking heartbreaking.

Get your votes in, SaturnGAF!

 

[sixteen-bit]

Were there even any sega games in the best games of all time vote? I forget, lol.

 

[MikeMyers]

Just got this.

Beautiful.

 

[blast processed]

Just got this.

Beautiful.

Nice pickup. I enjoyed this a lot more than the first overall. Enjoy!

 

[sixteen-bit]

Just got this.

Beautiful.

one of the GOATs

 

[Timu]

Just got this.

Beautiful.

I want that game!!!

 

[MikeMyers]

To be honest I'm kinda underwhelmed by it so far. :/

 

[Shadow Hog]

by the way, today's the last day to vote in the gen 5 threads for the games and the soundtracks:

games: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1096107
soundtracks: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1096830

a couple sega saturn games are close to breaking into what will be the first post (the top 25), but so far no saturn games have made it in.

Squeezed a few in before the deadline hit. I'm not counting on anything I voted on to have broken the top 25, since it's all pretty niche, rarely-played stuff (either due to obscurity or prohibitively high prices), but there it is all the same.

 

[IrishNinja]

To be honest I'm kinda underwhelmed by it so far. :/

how far in are you? did you play the original? it feels so much more polished, and the paths, environments and such...man keep at it, it's a masterpiece.

 

[MikeMyers]

how far in are you? did you play the original? it feels so much more polished, and the paths, environments and such...man keep at it, it's a masterpiece.

I completed the first three episodes, and I did not play the original.

I really want to like it. :/

 

[IrishNinja]

...huh

i mean, you've about given it a fair shake...what's not clicking? music & the world still intrigued me when i got around to em last year, are you using the recticle to lock on & shoot like rez or just rapid firing? also do you usually enjoy SHMUPs/on the rails type stuff

 

[MikeMyers]

...huh

i mean, you've about given it a fair shake...what's not clicking? music & the world still intrigued me when i got around to em last year, are you using the recticle to lock on & shoot like rez or just rapid firing? also do you usually enjoy SHMUPs/on the rails type stuff

Mostly just firing. Dont really play rail shooters either.

 

[IrishNinja]

oh...like, if you dig stuff like Sin & Punishment (also awesome) this is right up your alley...but yeah, i made that mistake when i first played it too, just hold the button & highlight dudes, then release. you don't wanna be jamming on the firing button as often as you'd think...hopefully, playing the game right will make it a bit more enjoyable? worked for me!

 

[MikeMyers]

I'll give it a try. I mean, I hated Nights at first, and now its my favourite game ever. So a turn around is possible! Anything else I should be noted on?

Oh and I've never played Sin and Punishment. Ain't got a Wii.

 

[IrishNinja]

yeah, that's where i first played it too...it's easy to find on the N64 though.

and aside from there being multiple paths, you wanna try hitting as much as you can - i forget the exact details but basically your % at the end of the level affects your evolution! like most saturn games, it's not super long & lends itself to replay. also, im sure you've got this going by then but you definitely wanna be looking all over the place (shoulder buttons) for more stuff, especially in later levels

 

[Celine]

Just got this.

Beautiful.

You did well.
It was in the first Saturn batch I've bought for my japanese console.

 

[MikeMyers]

You did well.

Not if you read my following posts...:

 

[Celine]

Not if you read my following posts...:

Ooops, you don't seem to like the genre.
Tough purchase then.

 

[MikeMyers]

I'll give it another chance. Hopefully I can turn things around.

 

[Mzo]

It's such a great game. Oh well.

 

[MikeMyers]

Could you explain what makes it appealing to you? Maybe that will help when I take it into consideration.

 

[blast processed]

It's a shame you didn't play the first game, you would've been able to appreciate the improvements made. I guess that doesn't really matter now.

 

[oneida]

PDZ has phenomenal worlds and art design, a good sense of progression through the game (PD1 you did not get any stronger from the first stage to the last), it's much longer than the first game and has branching paths, some of the best 3D on the Saturn.

it's most people's favorite PD rail shooter (I prefer Orta) and one of the best Saturn games imo

pretty sure there's a tutorial in game if you think you're missing some of the mechanics.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Orta's also my favorite, easily the most polished. I never played Zwei, though. Obviously as part of the Saturn Exchange Program, Mike can loan me his.
(That would be an awesome thing to minimize paying for outlandishly expensive rare Saturn games. I'd loan out Burning Rangers, for instance.)

 

[JonathanNemo]

For PDZ:

Routes also count towards evolution points; to get that best ending, you need to get 90%+ shotdown ratio for each stage and pick the highest numbered route.

Route 2 for Episode 2, Route 2 for Episode 3, Route 3 for Episode 4. Later stages are entirely linear. You'll find them easier if you have "full" instrumentation turned on in options, you'll get a flashing indicator of what route you're on.

If you didn't feel anything from Route 2 in Episode 2, then this is not your game. Especially after seeing Route 1.

Spoiler

There's also a second form to the final boss that I haven't been able to trigger reliably. Didn't even know about it for years.

 

[Seven Force]

Man, and what a fucking fantastic final boss that is. Always wanted to play Saga because apparently,

Spoiler

you get a rematch with it.

 

[JonathanNemo]

Man, and what a fucking fantastic final boss that is. Always wanted to play Saga because apparently,

Spoiler

you get a rematch with it.

ahhhhh spoilersssss

also! More PDS spoilers;

Spoiler

PDZ protag founds a tribe that continues to pursue the dragon and the towers. One of the optional lore-ish items you collect is a series of bibles telling about that protag's ambitions and journeys.

ALSO

Spoiler

there are a series of lore-ish items that tell the story of Zwei from the viewpoint of the empire

ALSOOOO

Spoiler

well actually I'm just going to stop here. Let me just say, Zwei factors in heavily to Saga's plot in a number of ways.

 

[AniHawk]

Squeezed a few in before the deadline hit. I'm not counting on anything I voted on to have broken the top 25, since it's all pretty niche, rarely-played stuff (either due to obscurity or prohibitively high prices), but there it is all the same.

it was specifically because of your vote that panzer dragoon saga secured the 25th spot.

 

[Hubbl3]

This baby just arrived:

 

[sixteen-bit]

This baby just arrived:

Such a weird game, lol.

 

[MikeMyers]

I don't recall seeing a tutorial.I'll look again.

And CJ, if you got Die Hard Arcade, I'll be willing to trade!

 

[MikeMyers]

So I gave Zwei another chance today. With the lock-on technique it made the game a bit more enjoyable to me.

Remember yesterday I said I just quit after beating level 3? Well today I played level 4, and then it clicked with me. Really liked the direction in that stage.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I don't recall seeing a tutorial.I'll look again.

And CJ, if you got Die Hard Arcade, I'll be willing to trade!

Sadly no. (WHERE IS DA PRESIDENT'S DAUGHTAAA)
I spent untold hours playing it at a local arcade and felt no need to own it. I used to jump in whenever someone was playing it.

I do have both Die Hard Trilogies though!

 

[oneida]

So I gave Zwei another chance today. With the lock-on technique it made the game a bit more enjoyable to me.

Remember yesterday I said I just quit after beating level 3? Well today I played level 4, and then it clicked with me. Really liked the direction in that stage.

were you not using lasers?!

 

[Shadow Hog]

oh...like, if you dig stuff like Sin & Punishment (also awesome) this is right up your alley...but yeah, i made that mistake when i first played it too, just hold the button & highlight dudes, then release. you don't wanna be jamming on the firing button as often as you'd think...hopefully, playing the game right will make it a bit more enjoyable? worked for me!

Technically you want a mix of the two. Jamming on the button is how you use Lundi's machine gun, and only that can shoot down certain projectiles... but holding down the button to let Lagi lock-on to tons of enemies at once is the quicker way to deal with multiple targets, IIRC. I forget which actually does more damage - probably the homing lasers, to counteract how much slower they are, but I really can't say for certain.

it was specifically because of your vote that panzer dragoon saga secured the 25th spot.

Haha, awesome.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Panzer Dragoon is my favorite Saturn game, PD Zwei is #2, and Panzer Dragoon Orta is my favorite Xbox game. Yeah, it's a pretty great series! Orta is my favorite of the three, overall; it's a longer game than the first two, and the better graphics allow for some added stuff the Saturn games don't have. Still, the Saturn games are also really amazing and among the best rail shooters ever. Sega's lockon-focused shooting system, as also seen in After Burner and such, works great in a 3d behind-the-character game, and the series has AMAZING music and very good graphics (for their respective platforms). Awesome, awesome classics, easily among the best ever in the genre -- only Star Fox 64, Space Harrier (the original), and the two Sin & Punishment games compare.

I haven't played Saga, but I will someday...

 

[Coda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1OlukYycGI

May need to get an android handheld at some point. Apparently there's an English translation in the works. Dat music and SFX are epic.

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=15979.120

This game is amazing but it's sort of hard to get into without knowing Japanese.

 

[InfiniteNine]

I liked the original Panzer Dragoon till I got to stage 5 then I just played Zwei.