Settlement reached for families of 3 high school students who died after hypnosis

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Yep, Florida. Warning, depressing read:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/articl...lement-over-principal-who-hypnotized-students

With families of 3 students who died getting $200,000 each, this seems to be the end of a really weird case that started back in 2011. A high school principal was discovered to have practiced hypnosis on as many as 75 students. 3 of them died in the same year, 2011. Two of them hung themselves (One either the same day or the day after a hypnosis session, the article mentions both as possibilities. The other, apparently related to depression after hypnosis did not effectively raise SAT scores as was suggested.) The third died in a car accident:

Kenney hypnotized Freeman, a quarterback for the North Port High football team, to help him concentrate and not worry about pain during games, according to court documents. Kenney began to teach Freeman how to hypnotize himself.

After a painful dentist visit on March 15, 2011, Freeman drove home with his girlfriend. His girlfriend said that during the ride Freeman got a strange look on his face and veered off of Interstate 75 near Toledo Blade Boulevard. Freeman later died from his injuries; his girlfriend survived.
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Other quotes:
One basketball player at the school said Kenney hypnotized him 30 to 40 times to improve his concentration.
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When McKinley would get on the school bus after sessions, sometimes he wouldn't know his name, Lyle said. McKinley would ask who his friends were. The same day McKinley died, he asked Lyle to punch him in the face, the records stated.
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Before McKinley, Palumbo and Freeman were ever hypnotized by Kenney, Sarasota County School District Executive Director of High Schools Steve Cantees warned Kenney at least three times not to practice hypnosis unless it was a demonstration in a psychology class and he had written parent permission from each student.

But even those demonstrations may have been illegal because Kenney did not have a license to practice hypnosis.
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The principal apparently pleaded no contest, was given a year of probation, and moved to North Carolina.

I'm not normally one to post depressing stories, but this one seemed especially sad and strange. I guess the lesson is, bizarre stuff can happen in high school, and try to stay in touch with your kids so you can figure out if someone is screwing with them.
 
There is currently no evidence that hypnosis can cause suicide.

But, hypnosis is a very weird thing. And yes, it's real. But it requires a willing participant.

Edit: 3 separate suicides is pretty rare for a single school in a single year. It does make you wonder if hypnosis can contribute towards someone on the path to suicide.
 
If I 'hypnotized' my friend in the US, and they just so happen to die within the following year, does that mean I'm liable?

Does Florida count as the south? Because this sounds like something that could only ever happen in the south

Suikoguy said:
There is currently no evidence that hypnosis can cause suicide.

But, hypnosis is a very weird thing. And yes, it's real. But it requires a willing participant.

Edit: 3 separate suicides is pretty rare for a single school in a single year. It does make you wonder if hypnosis can contribute towards someone on the path to suicide.
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I would definitely like to see more information on this
 
Azurex said:
If I 'hypnotized' my friend in the US, and they just so happen to die within the following year, does that mean I'm liable?

Does Florida count as the south? Because this sounds like something that could only ever happen in the south
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In a court of law? No.
There is zero evidence that hypnosis can directly cause self harm.

The question is whether someone with an undiagnosed mental health issue, be affected negatively when placed under hypnosis. Especially by someone not properly trained in it's use.
 
Ozigizo said:
I'm confused about this story, too.

Was it hypnosis or brainwashing?
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Neither works. Hypnosis is a parlor trick and brainwashing turned out to be a dud.

Bam Bam Baklava said:
Had to be some kind of placebo effect.
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Most likely this. Hypnosis is based on self-suggestion, you can't actually force people to do anything - you just give them suggestions that they're already inclined to agree with, even if they're embarrassing, because they think the situation asks it of them. So you can pretty easily make someone cluck like a chicken on stage because they already know it's a show anyway but you can't make them kill themselves.

The problem could be with easily suggestible people who are already predisposed to something. I can see how that could turn ugly, if someone already has problems with feeling like they're losing touch with reality and are subjected to derealisation exercises like hypnosis that could probably make things worse in the same way CBT could make things better. Still, the short description of McKinley sounds way more like a teenager struggling with depression than some kind of magical hypnotic effect.

This case seems like a witch hunt though. There's no way they could have proven that there was a direct cause and effect between the hypnosis and suicides.

Suikoguy said:
In a court of law? No.
There is zero evidence that hypnosis can directly cause self harm.

The question is whether someone with an undiagnosed mental health issue, be affected negatively when placed under hypnosis. Especially by someone not properly trained in it's use.
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The entire false memory movement basically emerged from a pseudoscientific use of hypnosis so it can definitely have far reaching ramifications. I think the jury's out on whether or not it can have a direct negative effect on someone's well-being though, consensus is that it's useless for treatment so there's not much research regarding negative side-effects.
 
Suikoguy said:
There is currently no evidence that hypnosis can cause suicide.

But, hypnosis is a very weird thing. And yes, it's real. But it requires a willing participant.
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Hypnosis can be used against the unwilling.

Edit: 3 separate suicides is pretty rare for a single school in a single year. It does make you wonder if hypnosis can contribute towards someone on the path to suicide.
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Hypnosis doesnt cause suicide by itself but meddling with peoples minds might create conditions where someone is willing to kill themselves.
 
water_wendi said:
For those that are unaware hypnosis is real.

Anyway.. not a good idea to practice hypnotherapy with no training on minors.



In Florida thats a yes.
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No - Hypnosis is not real. I've been to several "hypnotist" shows and its only the power of "suggestion". Hypnotists will usually plant 1 or 2 actors in a crowd for them to pick along with a whole bunch of other people they intend to hypnotize. Because the actors are pretending so well to be hypnotized the other people go along with it due to the pressure of not looking like an idiot and to have fun. There's also the fact that everyone on stage is doing dumb shit so you don't feel that whole "all eyes on you" effect and freeze up.

The last hypnotism show I saw failed because nobody on stage was falling for the bullshit - he had to end the show 20 minutes early. Basically what I'm trying to say here is that hypnosis won't make you kill yourself unless you already wanted to.
 
As a parent I'm amazed they signed off on their kids principal hypnotizing their kids. I mean their kids aren't going to school for that kind of thing no matter the reason.

I thought hypnosis was only used for certain types of therapy so a license was needed. This is definitely a weird read. I mean, if the principal from my kids school told me they wanted to hypnotized one of my kids, I don't think they'll be able to run fast enough to get away from me. Seems shady as fuck.
 
metalslimer said:
Hypnosis is real and it is definitely used therapeutically. It's just not the crazy stuff you see in movies.
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In particular, you are aware of what is going on during the session, but your level of reaction is diminished.
Movies and Books make it seem like you have no idea what is going on which is wrong.


I'm surprised so many forum users won't consider the possibility of it being a "real" thing.

The Mayo Clinic has an article on it:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/hypnosis/basics/definition/prc-20019177

Even Mr. Feynman recounted an experience with a Hypnotist.
http://imgur.com/a/sbVTc

Even the very skeptical Penn and Teller Bullshit Segment was not willing to call it outright bullshit.


water_wendi said:
Hypnosis can be used against the unwilling.
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Was not aware of that.
 
Freakinchair said:
No - Hypnosis is not real. I've been to several "hypnotist" shows and its only the power of "suggestion". Hypnotists will usually plant 1 or 2 actors in a crowd for them to pick along with a whole bunch of other people they intend to hypnotize. Because the actors are pretending so well to be hypnotized the other people go along with it due to the pressure of not looking like an idiot and to have fun. There's also the fact that everyone on stage is doing dumb shit so you don't feel that whole "all eyes on you" effect and freeze up.

The last hypnotism show I saw failed because nobody on stage was falling for the bullshit - he had to end the show 20 minutes early. Basically what I'm trying to say here is that hypnosis won't make you kill yourself unless you already wanted to.
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Stage hypnosis is not hypnotherapy.
 
Freakinchair said:
No - Hypnosis is not real. I've been to several "hypnotist" shows and its only the power of "suggestion". Hypnotists will usually plant 1 or 2 actors in a crowd for them to pick along with a whole bunch of other people they intend to hypnotize. Because the actors are pretending so well to be hypnotized the other people go along with it due to the pressure of not looking like an idiot and to have fun. There's also the fact that everyone on stage is doing dumb shit so you don't feel that whole "all eyes on you" effect and freeze up.

The last hypnotism show I saw failed because nobody on stage was falling for the bullshit - he had to end the show 20 minutes early. Basically what I'm trying to say here is that hypnosis won't make you kill yourself unless you already wanted to.
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Uh, I think that's what posters mean when they talk about hypnosis. The power of suggestion for the three teens to commit suicide perhaps? Maybe they were susceptible to the suggestions?
 
Not sure how people can say none of it is real if kids are pulling shit like they can't remember people's names or any other simple important shit they're supposed to know. Dude was obviously able to mess with their heads somehow.
 
Freakinchair said:
No - Hypnosis is not real. I've been to several "hypnotist" shows and its only the power of "suggestion". Hypnotists will usually plant 1 or 2 actors in a crowd for them to pick along with a whole bunch of other people they intend to hypnotize. Because the actors are pretending so well to be hypnotized the other people go along with it due to the pressure of not looking like an idiot and to have fun. There's also the fact that everyone on stage is doing dumb shit so you don't feel that whole "all eyes on you" effect and freeze up.

The last hypnotism show I saw failed because nobody on stage was falling for the bullshit - he had to end the show 20 minutes early. Basically what I'm trying to say here is that hypnosis won't make you kill yourself unless you already wanted to.
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Wrong on many levels.
 
What the? I've heard from reputable sources that hypnosis can't make you do anything you wouldn't have done anyway without the hypnosis.
 
Citadelofmythoughts said:
You cannot hypnotize someone to death. The self-preservation instinct is too strong.
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And how strong is the self-preservation instinct in depressed individuals who only need a slight nudge to end up in suicidal territory?

Langdon Alger said:
What the? I've heard from reputable sources that hypnosis can't make you do anything you wouldn't have done anyway without the hypnosis.
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Right. These were kids that needed legit treatment, not attempts at mind rewiring. The charge is that through negligence, he exacerbated the issues these kids had and may have helped contribute to the suicidal tendencies the kids already were having.
 
Citadelofmythoughts said:
You don't need hypnosis for that.
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But it certainly doesn't help when the decision is made to forego sending the kids to actual treatment. That's why the dude is in hot water and had to settle. Hypnotism is illegal to perform when unqualified and unlicensed. Why is that if it's all complete bullshit?
 
Hypnosis is about as real as the holy spirit.

People that don't believe it can get "possessed", people swear on their lives they feel something, people do nutty shit that they'd never do otherwise, etc

People are dumb and trick themselves into being dumb. If that counts hypnosis as being "real" then so are a lot of things.
 
Coffee Dog said:
Hypnosis is about as real as the holy spirit.

People that don't believe it can get "possessed", people swear on their lives they feel something, people do nutty shit that they'd never do otherwise, etc

People are dumb and trick themselves into being dumb. If that counts hypnosis as being "real" then so are a lot of things.
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If it's completely bunk and has zero effect, why is it illegal to perform hypnotism?
 
ITT posters show their ignorance towards all things psychology. reminds me of the thread we had about cotard's syndrome several months ago where people joked about it and hand waved.
 
Tinfoilhatsron said:
Uh, I think that's what posters mean when they talk about hypnosis. The power of suggestion for the three teens to commit suicide perhaps? Maybe they were susceptible to the suggestions?
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In that case, can an accident actually happen, though? Like "whoops, I didn't mean to suggest you kill yourselves!" ?
 
Mordeccai said:
ITT posters show their ignorance towards all things psychology. reminds me of the thread we had about cotard's syndrome several months ago where people joked about it and hand waved.
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Yeah, it's kind of sad :(

Cotard's syndrome is fascinating. I missed the thread on it.
 
Seems to me that the problem is that these kids needed real professional help, and his quackery only delayed or impeded real treatment. I don't think his hypnosis directly caused these deaths.
 
BigDug13 said:
If it's completely bunk and has zero effect, why is it illegal to perform hypnotism?
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I didn't say it had zero effect. If you create conditions where people can believe that they are capable of being hypnotised, you can hypnotise certain people.

I said it was as real as the holy spirit, or people believing that they are possessed.

How is hypnotism any different?
 
Dennis said:
Wait, so I am to believe a guy was driving, hypnotised himself, and fatally crashed?

Get the fuck out.
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It's a weird story. I'm not saying one way or another it's true -- one could easily say that the student in question had a bad reaction to something at the dentist, and had a heart attack on the way home. I don't know what the cause of death ruling was and I didn't dig further.

One could also understand the other student being depressed because of bad SAT scores, and getting further depressed when hypnosis didn't improve them.

But for 3 different students in the same year to die, 2 by hanging and 1 with reports that he didn't know his own friends and hung himself within a day of the principal doing something, all 3 involved with hypnosis? It's at minimum a very odd coincidence, even if it's just depression interacting with some sort of amateur cognitive therapy.
 
One late night a friend of mine demonstrated hypnosis on several buddies. Freaky stuff. The weirdest/most horrifying part was the guide suggesting that spiders were crawling all over the subject and him screaming in absolute horror.

Big ol' NOPE to ever seeing / being a part of anything like that again.

Coffee Dog said:
Hypnosis is about as real as the holy spirit.

People that don't believe it can get "possessed", people swear on their lives they feel something, people do nutty shit that they'd never do otherwise, etc

People are dumb and trick themselves into being dumb. If that counts hypnosis as being "real" then so are a lot of things.
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Used to think that myself. Not anymore.
 
I agree it's unlikely the principal was TRYING to get students to kill themselves. It seems to me more likely that the students were already depressed (e.g. the low SAT scores) and someone attempting to treat them psychologically without the proper knowledge and experience could really mess them up.
 
Bornstellar said:
One late night a friend of mind demonstrated hypnosis on several buddies. Freaky stuff. The weirdest/most horrifying part was the guide suggesting that spiders were crawling all over the subject and him screaming in absolute horror.

Big ol' NOPE to ever seeing / being a part of anything like that again.



Used to think that myself. Not anymore.
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Its nothing to be feared. Its just technology. Now a hundred years from now when science has more fully mapped the human mind? i shudder to think of what the unethical could do.

Anyways, if anyone is curious about trance ive uploaded a basic induction file to File Dropper. Listen when you wont be disturbed and can sit/lie down for the duration and use headphones for better effect. Theres nothing untoward in the file. It just brings you into a trance state for a short while.

http://www.filedropper.com/blinksbasicinductionmp3
 
People are going back and forth saying "hypnotism isn't real!" ; "No it's not!" ; "Yes it is" but would someone mind posting a source one way or the other?
 
PezDispenser said:
People are going back and forth saying "hypnotism isn't real!" ; "No it's not!" ; "Yes it is" but would someone mind posting a source one way or the other?
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10769981
A meta-analysis of hypnotically induced analgesia: how effective is hypnosis?

Abstract

Over the past two decades, hypnoanalgesia has been widely studied; however, no systematic attempts have been made to determine the average size of hypnoanalgesic effects or establish the generalizability of these effects from the laboratory to the clinic. This study examines the effectiveness of hypnosis in pain management, compares studies that evaluated hypnotic pain reduction in healthy volunteers vs. those using patient samples, compares hypnoanalgesic effects and participants' hypnotic suggestibility, and determines the effectiveness of hypnotic suggestion for pain relief relative to other nonhypnotic psychological interventions. Meta-analysis of 18 studies revealed a moderate to large hypnoanalgesic effect, supporting the efficacy of hypnotic techniques for pain management. The results also indicated that hypnotic suggestion was equally effective in reducing both clinical and experimental pain. The overall results suggest broader application of hypnoanalgesic techniques with pain patients.
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