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[Authority]

Enough to feel uncomfortable/unsafe is all it should take. If one person can handle 20 threads before they feel uncomfortable, that's fine. If a person can only handle a few, that's also fine.

So there is no evidence to support her claims.

It is not my issue how uncomfortable/unsafe/insecure someone is. When you make bold statements, absolute statements you either can provide evidence or never make them in the first place.

She has none but still did everything she could for it to hit the headlines.

Me personally? It would depend on the content of those threads and not simply the fact they were locked. If there was a racist thread on GAF where a majority of the posts were all in support of racism, making racist jokes, etc. I would definitely see GAF in a different light.

So you would see GAF in a different light because one racist person made a racist thread that attracted racist gamers? That does not make sense unless you claim that in NeoGAF there are no racist gamers. Every community has got its rotten apples but it is up to the moderation team to take care of it.

NeoGaf just like Star Citizen cannot be held accountable since both of them hold no social or political agenda and in that respect you cannot hold them accountable. So in that respect claiming that Star Citizen Community is sexist or supports sexism has no ground.

I say she holds that view because despite attempting for a reasonable bit of consideration for a private board, she was mostly ridiculed, hated on and banned from the boards by the people in charge of them

She was criticized for her safe zone part and and her intention(s) was questioned due to her belonging to a notorious gaming group.

Show me exactly which posts and how many posts humiliated her, hater her. She was banned for her profane message; see RSI response.

There's criticism that is actually helpful. And there's criticism that does nothing but hold up conversation, divert attention away from real issues and derail topics. She seemed to receive a hefty amount of the latter rather than the former. I also don't understand why you get hung up on the semantics of her posts about a sexist community.

No it is not a semantic. That is sugar-coating.

What makes her feel that way is that she is on a forum where the membership of people who are sexist is rarely challenged by the very people in charge of keeping the peace

Again where is the evidence? Both threads were locked. She has the right to feel however she feels. She has no right to frame people on the net based on how she feels.

Now tell me what is sexist about space-bikinis? What is sexist about requesting space-sex?

Stop with the "what she should have done" stuff. You are not her. Period. She was the one in the position where she felt uncomfortable and did what she thought was necessary. The people on the board as well as yourself are blowing out a single sentence as some sort of insult to all male kind.

She has to take responsibility for her actions regardless of her gender or her political views. Period. Her whole blog post is full of it and I have explained why and which parts.

Talk to her in the topic and ask her about what made her uncomfortable or feel though this topic was necessary and take those steps to make the forum a better place rather than wholly and completely shutting her down.

She should have contacted it the Mods first. You are expecting the whole world to take her hand and that is not realistic because no one is obliged to do that.

She got shut down because of how she handled it and how quickly she escalated the matter.

 

[unbias]

But the members of Something Awful are informally known as goons, right? And Goonswarm originated from Something Awful?



I'm aware of the popular Something Awful/Goon scam stories and so forth and I don't see how they're related to this particular incident. I get that a reputation of troublemaking can be earned but to me it's like accusing or railing on the entirety GAF for a perceived Sony bias when the truth is more complicated than that.

After awhile, your gaming online reputation(or internet reputation) can become tainted. SA forums are not at the point of the Goon army in games, but the goon army in games is tainted, and the benefit of the doubt they do not get, imo. Just like how 4chan doesn't get the benefit of the doubt on the internet. Sure there are good people in goon(I know some) guilds/ect but the servers they are on are by far not better off, and they are known for starting shit in games(and those games forums). The issue she brought up is legitimate, yes, but the fact that it was goon that started this IS cause for pause, not of the issue itself, but the motivations behind it. Whether she is sincere or not doesnt effect the validity of the fact that creating a subgroup to get away from harasment shouldn't be a big deal, but it does make someone familiar with goon take a closer look as to why the cause started in the 1st place.

People who have issue with goon, I don't think have an issue with the request, they just have an issue with accepting the sincerity of the person behind the message and the motivations, which I think are fair. The issue that was brought up though, is so simple in what you(you, me, everyone) view on it, I just dont think there is much to talk about, in regards to people being able to create a sub forum where they feel comfortable.

 

[KKRT00]

This is wrong. If you are from something awful you are a Goon. Its what a something awful member is called. Mind you there are close to 200k members of something awful and some of them play eve. If someone calls themselves a goon they are not identifying with Eve they are calling themselves a something awful forum user. Just thought I would clear that up. Infact a very tiny fraction of goons play eve or care about goonswarm or have anything to do with it. It would be like a subreddit being lumped in with all of reddit users.

Just because Goons originated from Something Awful board, doesnt mean that all SA members are Goons from EVE Online.
And i have never said that all Goons are like that. I respect their leadership, i always did, but most of their lower level members are the worst people You could ever encounter in online game and they are completely capable of destroying or trolling whole board just for fun. They've done it many, many times before and that was my the only point.

 

[pants]

But the members of Something Awful are informally known as goons, right? And Goonswarm originated from Something Awful?

This is wrong. If you are from something awful you are a Goon. Its what a something awful member is called. Mind you there are close to 200k members of something awful and some of them play eve. If someone calls themselves a goon they are not identifying with Eve they are calling themselves a something awful forum user. Just thought I would clear that up. Infact a very tiny fraction of goons play eve or care about goonswarm or have anything to do with it. It would be like a subreddit being lumped in with all of reddit users.

The entire community of SA are not what people refer to when they say 'goons' are ruining their internet/gaming community. It is a subset of people from SA (and even elsewhere these days, who would have thunk it!) and if you want to obfuscate that behind 'but everyone is a goon', please go ahead.

 

[Lespedeza]

I just find it funny that folks are so upset that people might want a space for like minded people. I mean Stormfront has a section for women, Stormfront

I agree

 

[pants]

It's like reading RussiaToday, there is only so many times you can put up with bullshit before they become the boy who trolled once too many

 

[Vire]

The entire community of SA are not what people refer to when they say 'goons' are ruining their internet/gaming community. It is a subset of people from SA (and even elsewhere these days, who would have thunk it!) and if you want to obfuscate that behind 'but everyone is a goon', please go ahead.

I simple have no idea what several of you are talking about. This is not how it works you don't get to invent who is a goon and who isn't. Its what something awful members are called? If you are using it to only define a certain subgroup of people within the forums you are using the term wrong I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[unbias]

I simple have no idea what several of you are talking about. This is not how it works you don't get to invent who is a goon and who isn't. Its what something awful members are called? If you are using it to only define a certain subgroup of people within the forums you are using the term wrong I don't know what else to tell you.

No one is inventing who goons is or isnt. The goons in the games, as a whole, is not a positive experience for most, where as the forums dont have that reputation. When people talk about goons reputation they are normally talking about the interaction with them in games and the community of that particular game.

 

[pants]

I simple have no idea what several of you are talking about. This is not how it works you don't get to invent who is a goon and who isn't. Its what something awful members are called? If you are using it to only define a certain subgroup of people within the forums you are using the term wrong I don't know what else to tell you.

Alright I'm really not into pointless conversations and I'm not vested in this enough to talk with you in circles further. I wont have my jimmies rustled by goon stuff when there is not a single goon around lol

I've been perfectly clear and if you arent willing to meet me half way, I'm not going to bother mate.

I'm not trying to be rude, I just honestly can't be arsed further.

 

[unbias]

Alright I'm really not into pointless conversations and I'm not vested in this enough to talk with you in circles further. I wont have my jimmies rustled by goon stuff when there is not a single goon around lol

I've been perfectly clear and if you arent willing to meet me half way, I'm not going to bother mate.

I'm not trying to be rude, I just honestly can't be arsed further.

I highly doubt that.

 

[pants]

I highly doubt that.

Well yeah but we both know this isnt the association I'm making =P

 

[-tetsuo-]

So this is basically goon squad strikes again?

 

[Marcel]

So this is basically goon squad strikes again?

It's not really that simple. Maybe read the thread rather than make assumptions?

 

[unbias]

So this is basically goon squad strikes again?

Maybe? A Goon brought up a valid issue(sub forums for groups to protect themselves from harassment), and then it either intentionally or unintentionally turned into a shitstorm. Essentially this would have been better if anyone not Goon started this and probably would have been handled vastly differently.

 

[L Thammy]

The entire community of SA are not what people refer to when they say 'goons' are ruining their internet/gaming community. It is a subset of people from SA (and even elsewhere these days, who would have thunk it!) and if you want to obfuscate that behind 'but everyone is a goon', please go ahead.

Isn't it the woman who identified herself as a goon? "Goon" is the Something Awful is "GAFer", to my understanding, so is it unreasonable that she's not referring to herself merely as a member of Something Awful?

Not trying to take sides here, I haven't really been following.

 

[Dictator93]

So I read over the thread, ben's post, the original thread including the OP.

I have 2 questions:

Why are people unhappy with ben's response?

Do people think the conversation about sexism has been stifled since Ben responded?

 

[APF]

Again, the Goon conversation is a red herring unless you are actually disputing the validity of the OP / the original idea, which not even the developers appear to be doing. Saying an idea is invalid because of some personal issue you have with the originator is what is called an ad hominem argument, and is a logical fallacy. The validity of ideas are not dependent upon your opinion of the person putting forth that idea.

 

[Cybit]

Isn't it the woman who identified herself as a goon? "Goon" is the Something Awful is "GAFer", to my understanding, so is it unreasonable that she's not referring to herself merely as a member of Something Awful?

Not trying to take sides here, I haven't really been following.

Goon is twofold

1 - term used by many to describe anyone who posts on the SA boards

2 - term used for those who belong in GoonSwarm / various SA affiliated guilds that are notorious (4chan level notorious) for trolling / stirring the pot. EvE Online is where Goonswarm is most notorious from, as they are the dominant organization in the game, and they are notorious for scamming / trolling / causing chaos because they can. (A cursory google search will give you thousands of hits on things they've done in that game alone, including now vandalizing the real life monument CCP made to its' EvE Online players).

Alternatively, just bring up the topic "Goonswarm" to any EvE Online player, and you'll get the gist quickly.

the second group is the one that the OP on the RSI boards is affiliated with from my understanding, and because of that, the OP was interpreted as being a "stirring the pot" thread rather than a genuine thread. No one's exactly sure which it is yet.

 

[unbias]

Again, the Goon conversation is a red herring unless you are actually disputing the validity of the OP / the original idea, which not even the developers appear to be doing. Saying an idea is invalid because of some personal issue you have with the originator is what is called an ad hominem argument, and is a logical fallacy. The validity of ideas are not dependent upon your opinion of the person putting forth that idea.

Who is doing this? Seems to me people are separating it fine(for them ost part), they just really dislike goon and question motives. You can think the idea itself is fine, but think the person bringing it up and their motivations are suspect or the way they handled it actually made it harder for that particular idea. Again the argument at that point is whether groups should be able to have sub forums to protect against harassment on a public forum. I dont think discussing the perception of Goon being disingenuous takes away from people who may or may not think that exclusionary sub forums should be allowed.

Goon is twofold

1 - term used by many to describe anyone who posts on the SA boards

2 - term used for those who belong in GoonSwarm / various SA affiliated guilds that are notorious (4chan level notorious) for trolling / stirring the pot. EvE Online is where Goonswarm is most notorious from, as they are the dominant organization in the game, and they are notorious for scamming / trolling / causing chaos because they can. (A cursory google search will give you thousands of hits on things they've done in that game alone, including now vandalizing the real life monument CCP made to its' EvE Online players).

Alternatively, just bring up the topic "Goonswarm" to any EvE Online player, and you'll get the gist quickly.

the second group is the one that the OP on the RSI boards is affiliated with from my understanding, and because of that, the OP was interpreted as being a "stirring the pot" thread rather than a genuine thread. No one's exactly sure which it is yet.

Goon Squad on Malganis(WoW) had a reputation as well.

 

[HariKari]

Again, the Goon conversation is a red herring

If you read the thread, you'll see it's really not. It only ever went out of control after Lauresh started being hostile while being backed by two other goons. Reasonable questions were ducked and well thought out posts dismissed with redirection and pure trolling. The original dust up was over the validity of the banning, not some decree from on high that RSI will not allow a female group or is actively against it.

Hiding behind a valid issue - be it game balance or a social issue - while pushing the buttons of devs is like the official sport of the goons.

 

[L Thammy]

the second group is the one that the OP on the RSI boards is affiliated with from my understanding, and because of that, the OP was interpreted as being a "stirring the pot" thread rather than a genuine thread. No one's exactly sure which it is yet.

Is that actually confirmed? Seems to be some confusion on that point. Again, haven't really been following myself.

 

[Authority]

No this is not how it works. You are not guilty just because you are a member of something awful intrinsically.

How did you expect her to handle the situation this is ridiculous. Its days like these I get ashamed of the game community and the kinda intolerance that goes on not only over there but in this thread.

No one said she is guilty because she is a member of SA, she is guilty of other things. However her intention(s) is questionable and regardless on how you dance the rope, that will not change. If you want your intention not to be questionable then obviously we have to go to the same route again of "she should have done this".

There is nothing ridiculous about it. I hold no sympathy for both extremes and for both sexes in any serious wrongdoing.

 

[fader]

im kinda aghast that you can get banned because people cursed inside a thread you made. that seems nuts to me.

 

[APF]

You can think the idea itself is fine, but think the person bringing it up and their motivations are suspect

You mean like how you concern troll every thread related to sexism in gaming, therefore it's legitimate to think your motivations are suspect?

The original dust up was over the validity of the banning, not some decree from on high that RSI will not allow a female group or is actively against it.

Which appears to have been addressed by the developers in their update, where they admit their moderation displayed poor judgment: "However, on review and in spite of the sheer volume of concerned Goons coming out of the woodwork on this, I do not believe the thread was necessarily a setup and that several mistakes were made in terms of moderation"

 

[Cybit]

Is that actually confirmed? Seems to be some confusion on that point. Again, haven't really been following myself.

She is in the GoonWaffe on EvE Online.

Personally I think at this point the arguments are turning into echo chambers. Those who want to side with Lauresh are going to look at only the information that confirms their side of the story, those who want to side with RSI are going to do the same, and the internet will remind everyone that there is enough information on it to lie to yourself about whatever you want.

I personally don't find Lauresh's request terribly unreasonable, but I can see why RSI would say "if you want to make this group, you should do it yourself, rather than foisting the resource costs such as moderation and bandwidth onto us while attempting to take credit."

 

[unbias]

You mean like how you concern troll every thread related to sexism in gaming, therefore it's legitimate to think your motivations are suspect?

Now you are just reaching and making things up. Kind of sad. However, if I actually did that, yes. You're partly judged based on your reputation, and rightfully so, imo.

 

[atr0cious]

Edit: Wouldn't let me quote myself correctly.

Resummarize
Let us take a closer look.

Lauresh

• Female gamer
• Member of Something Awful
• Self-classified as a Goon

Past and Present

She had fond memories of gaming back in the 90's -
She does not have many fond memories since the 90's -

Gaming Views

• The gaming community is sexist. Not a small minority, not a small part of it, but all of of it -
  
• Star Citizen's community is not only sexist but also accepts rape culture -
  
• Star Citizen's community is sexist because not only there was a thread that was locked about having Sex in Space -
  
  RSI Response
  
  • Questioning her true intentions confirmed -
    
  • Disputing the allegation(s) that her ban was wrong or sexist confirmed -
    
  • Dealing with the moderator(s) accordingly confirmed -
    
    
    
    Case closed.

• • 
    
    As a 'Goon" myself, this is probably the dumbest post I've read in a while on these forums. This is beyond insulting, to think that just because we're apart of some group that we automatically have intentions of tearing down something from the inside. Sorry there are so many of us that we can pretty much do what we want, but that's how life works. Goons actually go to games they think are worth playing, and will do everything they can to have fun. But just like NeoGaf, there will inevitably be assholes, but that's also life.
    
    One of the great parts of being in Something Awful, is that I know if I'm in the right, they will back me up. Being able to tell an entity to fuck off, and them listen is great. Make no mistake, SA does not allow for members to fly the goon flag and be intentionally disruptive, you will get banned for that. EVE drama happens all in game, and the threads on the forums have been closed multiple times, with many people getting perma'd. SA is just as serious about the legal ramifications as EvilLore is.
    
    But SA is also one of the biggest social justice groups in the world. We've funded armor for troops in the war, we frequently do all types of charities, took on pedophiles, scam artists, and Scientologist. I haven't done a goon raid since WOW beta, but the forum is aware of this, and there isn't some mindhive to attack. Most are just laughing that they're even spending money on the game.
    
    And just because she's a female gamer, she's a troll? Maybe she didn't like that a game she potentially spent thousands on is contemplating allowing cyberrape but not for her to have a female club?
    
    

    Unless you are a frequent board member over there, all people have to go by is a very small sample of posts. So its hard to understand how much sexism is actually on the board. That said, the issue isnt specifically about just sexism as much as it is peoples right to assemble into an exclusive group on a public forum. I dont see many people here saying that sexism doesnt exist or that sexism isnt an important issue. That said, if a group of people known for being divisive pops up, not everyone is going to have the same proprity as you. Wanting to focus on the perception of sexism on a forum, with very few samples(in this topic) vs as many gamers hatred or strong disfavor for a group of people that they continually have to deal with is just going to have more to it then sexism, because goon is very disliked.
    
    The issue of being able to have segregated forums in and of itself isnt an issue of sexism but an issue of should they have the ability to do so. I think the idea that you cant create any group you want to be very silly, that however doesn't mean that particular discussion is one of sexism. What you are advocating is increasing more protections for women to not be in a position to be a victim of sexism as much, which is fair, but not the same thing. Also, it seems like there are 3 points and conversations being made here: 1st one about the womens right to create a group that they are advocating for on the forums, 2nd how much sexism is actually present on the forums, and 3rd Goon's history and overall dislike by alot of the community. Seems you want to quash all discussion until everyone is talking about the 1 particular thing you want, and then turning them all on your side. doesnt seem very productive...

    I've been a member for over a decade, and I can tell you that sexism has never been allowed. And Lowtax has a daughter now, so that's even more out of the question. SA is about being whoever you are respectfully. There are a couple "hugboxes" where you can say whatever you like, but even then you are at the mercy of the mod. We have an entire thread dedicated to "trolling" the Tea Party Community, by asking them debate questions on civil rights and watching them ban us. But like I said, life will always have assholes, and SA deals with them just like NeoGaf does, if not more strict, as they have a separate probation function for lesser punishments.
    
    I haven't even read the Star Citizen thread, but it sounds like they are backing her because they don't want her to be treated the way she's being treated. I'm sure if you got treated the same way, you'd want us to have your back, and we would.

 

[Karkador]

No one said she is guilty because she is a member of SA, she is guilty of other things. However her intention(s) is questionable and regardless on how you dance the rope, that will not change.

She's guilty of liking games from the 90s?

 

[APF]

Now you are just reaching and making things up. Kind of sad. However, if I actually did that, yes. You're partly judged based on your reputation, and rightfully so, imo.

Bookmarked.

 

[Jado]

Case is closed because all actions have been taking into consideration and all parties have or will be treated accordingly.

Your "case closed" post is ridiculous because it was a poor attempt at slamdunk/drop the mic/walk away -type post, but only accomplished at making your intentions even more transparent.

That female gamer with extreme left-wing views got the support.

She doesn't come off as extreme left-wing; you're projecting and using out-of-context snippets of text as "proof" of an unsavory agenda you imagined she has.

Unless you are stating that Star Citizen Community is sexist or supports a sexist environment in which there is no evidence to support that. Unless you stating that the male gaming population is responsible or held into account because some male gamers are sexists.

No rational male gamer is offended that some female gamers would like to have their own group. They are offended that some female gamers feel threatened by the male gaming population.

Generalizing a gender population or a community as sexist is sexist itself.

And it has been already explained why absolute statements that generalize to that extend a gender, a population and a community is stupid.

I do not have these distorted views that the gaming male community is misogynist or the gaming female community is misandrist. Those views are shared by the MRM and the likes.

Unfortunately, the person that you defend does.

Distorted views? There are a number of transgender, gay and women gamers in this thread who have relayed to you their experiences with gaming communities across the Internet: there is a very clear pattern of racism, homophobia, transphobia and anti-women behavior across nearly all gaming forums (even GAF to a lesser extent, thanks only to strict moderation keeping it in check). I wholeheartedly agree having experienced it myself. The gaming male community IS misogynist among many other awful things -- no, not every person -- but the overall tolerance for that shit, the adulation of guys like Gabe and disdain for outspoken critics of video game themes and stereotypes makes that very obvious. You're gonna sit there and deny someone else's honest experiences (see below), corroborated by numerous other posters? Why?

This is it, and this thread proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I'm a woman. I tend to not participate in threads about this subject. Why? Because when you're one woman amidst an army of men who are bent on deciding what's best for you, you feel incredibly powerless and marginalized. Everything mentioned is picked apart with false equivalencies and completely insane hypotheticals. It's to the point where sometimes just reading a few pages of threads like these leaves me incredibly depressed and ruins my day, because it feels like nothing's ever going to change. Enthusiast gaming communities on the internet are becoming worse for women, not better. Sometimes, it would be nice to get together with other women and talk about certain subjects that matter to us with regards to gaming without having to deal with all of that.

Huh? Have you read the topic? The majority of the discussion has been about the women should or shouldnt be able to create their own subgroup to protect themselves from sexism... This isnt simply a topic on sexism, so expecting the entire conversation to bend on JUST sexism, well... it also has peoples right to create a sub forum on a public message board, to protect themselves from harassment, and then also goon was involved, which has its own baggage. Derail would infer there is only one way to talk about the topic, and you have not done anything to prove that is the case. Cheap saying and drive by comments about how people dont want to talk about what needs to be talked about, is a rather pointless thing to do, imo.

I have to agree with AnotherDustInTheWind; there is a serious amount of concern trolling and purely distracting elements throughout this thread that continues to dissect her background, her post history, her language (was she polite enough?), and what she must've done behind the scenes to get herself banned (nothing besides diligently report thread-shitting). This is a common tactic to conceal true motivations, distract and create divisiness so that the real topic isn't discussed as clearly and openly.

The mods have pretty much had to step into every Anita thread because shit gets derailed quickly with dozens of GAF users talking nonstop shit about her hair, wardrobe, makeup (lol feminist and she wears lipstick), lack of makeup (lol she's ugly), earrings, voice, tone, facial expressions, too much money raised, where did all the money go, she's doing it for the money, what took so long, will the next one be 10 years from now, the video is too long, the video is too short, too many games listed, not enough games listed, old/irrelevant blog posts, her college dissertation, Youtube comments off = censorship of my freedom of speech, will not validate her until she gives me a platform, etc.

 

[unbias]

I have to agree with AnotherDustInTheWind; there is a serious amount of concern trolling and purely distracting elements throughout this thread that continues to dissect her background, her post history, her language (was she polite enough?), and what she must've done behind the scenes to get herself banned (nothing besides diligently report thread-shitting). This is a common tactic to conceal true motivations, distract and create divisiness so that the real topic isn't discussed as clearly and openly.

The mods have pretty much had to step into every Anita thread because shit gets derailed quickly with dozens of GAF users talking nonstop shit about her hair, wardrobe, makeup (lol feminist and she wears lipstick), lack of makeup (lol she's ugly), earrings, voice, tone, facial expressions, too much money raised, where did all the money go, she's doing it for the money, what took so long, will the next one be 10 years from now, the video is too long, the video is too short, too many games listed, not enough games listed, old/irrelevant blog posts, her college dissertation, Youtube comments off = censorship of my freedom of speech, will not validate her until she gives me a platform, etc.

But what points have not been brought up in regards to women being able to create a sub forum to escape a certain amount of harassment, what conversations do you think are missing that have not been discussed? And like I said, if she wasn't a goon, I doubt motivations would have been a talking point(probably would have been a smaller topic as well). At what point does a specific talking point have to be addressed before talking about a subpoint in a topic? I'm not seeing a whole lot of point at specifics, in terms of people concern trolling outside of Authority. The only thing I'm seeing is a lot of people who dislike Goon, I'm not seeing a whole lot of "they shouldn't be allowed to have a subgroup", honestly.

As for Anita threads, I dont think this is the same thing, Anita threads are a train wreck and not just on Gaf, so comparing that to this isnt, to me, the same thing. I've never really participated in them because I find them in general toxic.

Bookmarked.

I'm not sure what you think you are trying to prove, but it just comes across as petty.

I've been a member for over a decade, and I can tell you that sexism has never been allowed. And Lowtax has a daughter now, so that's even more out of the question. SA is about being whoever you are respectfully. There are a couple "hugboxes" where you can say whatever you like, but even then you are at the mercy of the mod. We have an entire thread dedicated to "trolling" the Tea Party Community, by asking them debate questions on civil rights and watching them ban us. But like I said, life will always have assholes, and SA deals with them just like NeoGaf does, if not more strict, as they have a separate probation function for lesser punishments.

I haven't even read the Star Citizen thread, but it sounds like they are backing her because they don't want her to be treated the way she's being treated. I'm sure if you got treated the same way, you'd want us to have your back, and we would.

My comment was in regards to Star Citizens message board, not SA forums.

 

[APF]

As for Anita threads, I dont think this is the same thing, Anita threads are a train wreck and not just on Gaf, so comparing that to this isnt, to me, the same thing. I've never really participated in them because I find them in general toxic.

You're attempting to say you have never "really" participated in threads about her? Are you serious? You're just proving my point that it's important to bookmark things like this.

 

[unbias]

You're attempting to say you have never "really" participated in threads about her? Are you serious? You're just proving my point that it's important to bookmark things like this.

Umm, wat? Ive never posted in an Anita thread. I've read them, but that is how far my participation has went. You're vagueness is incredibly odd. It is like you are trying to insinuate something despite the fact that you don't have anything to point to.

 

[Jado]

But what points have not been brought up in regards to women being able to create a sub forum to escape a certain amount of harassment, what conversations do you think are missing that have not been discussed? And like I said, if she wasn't a goon, I doubt motivations would have been a talking point(probably would have been a smaller topic as well). At what point does a specific talking point have to be addressed before talking about a subpoint in a topic? I'm not seeing a whole lot of point at specifics, in terms of people concern trolling outside of Authority. The only thing I'm seeing is a lot of people who dislike Goon, I'm not seeing a whole lot of "they shouldn't be allowed to have a subgroup", honestly.

As for Anita threads, I dont think this is the same thing, Anita threads are a train wreck and not just on Gaf, so comparing that to this isnt, to me, the same thing. I've never really participated in them because I find them in general toxic.

Anita threads are a trainwreck because of the immaturity and ignorance of male users on GAF and elsewhere, not anything particularly wrong with her. With a large segment, it's never about anything she actually has to say; they will always shout her down "just because."

I suppose all points have been touched upon, but not before a number of posts trying to sidetrack and diminish the issue or Lauresh directly. Did you only join in and start reading the last couple of pages of this thread? Her motivations were being questioned at length well before it was brought up that she was a goon.

Is there a rule to creating a large single post with numerous quotes from throughout this thread? It would serve to illustrate my point perfectly.

 

[L Thammy]

Anita threads are a trainwreck because of the immaturity and ignorance of male users on GAF and elsewhere, not anything particularly wrong with her. With a large segment, it's never about anything she actually has to say; they will always shout her down "just because."

I suppose all points have been touched upon, but not before a number of posts trying to sidetrack and diminish the issue or Lauresh directly. Did you only join in and start reading the last couple of pages of this thread? Her motivations were being questioned at length well before it was brought up that she was a goon.

Is there a rule to creating a large single post with numerous quotes from throughout this thread? It would serve to illustrate my point perfectly.

Either copy and paste the quotes into one post or use the multi-quote feature, it should work across different threads.
Friendly advice, you should probably make sure that you have solid grounds before you call another member out.

 

[unbias]

Anita threads are a trainwreck because of the immaturity and ignorance of male users on GAF and elsewhere, not anything particularly wrong with her. With a large segment, it's never about anything she actually has to say; they will always shout her down "just because."

I suppose all points have been touched upon, but not before a number of posts trying to sidetrack and diminish the issue or Lauresh directly. Did you only join in and start reading the last couple of pages of this thread? Her motivations were being questioned at length well before it was brought up that she was a goon.

Is there a rule to creating a large single post with numerous quotes from throughout this thread? It would serve to illustrate my point perfectly.

I dunno, goon got brought up on page 3 I think? Beyond that, a lot of the discussion was caught up in semantics, but the main conversations from what I saw was about allowing an exclusive sub forum, for the most part, outside of some seemingly taking issue with the girls only(the way it was presented) forum due to some possible transgender issues. After rereading through the topic, seems most people were arguing over whether exclusionary groups should be allowed on a public forum pretty consistently. Not until Authorities 1st post did it really jump shark.

 

[Jado]

Either copy and paste the quotes into one post or use the multi-quote feature, it should work across different threads.
Friendly advice, you should probably make sure that you have solid grounds before you call another member out.

It's way too much stuff to quote. I suggest anyone go back and read the first 12 pages who thinks it was just Authority shitting up the thread.

Umm, wat? Ive never posted in an Anita thread. I've read them, but that is how far my participation has went. You're vagueness is incredibly odd. It is like you are trying to insinuate something despite the fact that you don't have anything to point to.

You and APF are having a little back-and-forth argument in this Anita thread. You specifically mention that you give almost no thought to Zelda as anything other than a damsel, and APF rebuts by stating that you've basically validated the existence of Anita's video game trope series. You go off an unrelated tangent that Zelda has "horrible, nonexistent" storytelling as an excuse for Zelda being a shitty object for Link to collect.

Are you saying you know how everyone perceives Zelda? I mean, I don't know how many people seriously think of Zelda as a weak character(dont really think of her at all, beyond saving the princess in a castle).

Here's more of you defending demeaning stereotypes with a dismissive "business as usual" attitude:

Umm, really? When was the last time you saw a AAA title take a consistent money maker and then change the formula? They do it because it is safe, and the reason they dont make Zelda games is probably along the same lines. I mean, the only other argument I can see being made(which I don't believe is the reason, most games are like this, I think, it is all profit driven) is that they are unwilling to break gener roles, as in: The male should always risk his well being for the woman/political leader, while the woman shouldn't risk her life, because her intrinsic value(value for simply existing/baby making abilities) is worth more then her agency.

From Tropes Vs. Women Episode 2 - Damsels In Distress Part [spoiler warning], here you are making excuses for the terrible characterization and stereotyping of Zelda, instantly and inexplicably going from a strong, rebellious fighter to a useless damsel in Wind Waker:

Have you played JRPG's? Men, women, boys, girls, all of them have this weird attitude shift halfway through a game. Go through the most popular shonen, you see this all the time in Japan, with personality shifts.

This is all from a year ago, and I'm only quoting it here because you said yourself you never partook in those sorts of threads -- which is obviously a lie. Here's another one: Anita Sarkeesian "Tropes vs. Women" Video will come out today [out now, link in OP], although I'm not sure if you said anything dumb in that one. I hope you're a better person today because the above quoted wasn't too long ago.

After rereading through the topic, seems most people were arguing over whether exclusionary groups should be allowed on a public forum pretty consistently. Not until Authorities 1st post did it really jump shark.

Please. Maybe I'll PM what I've copied and pasted so far. This thread is full of trash posts.

 

[Marcel]

Umm, wat? Ive never posted in an Anita thread. I've read them, but that is how far my participation has went. You're vagueness is incredibly odd. It is like you are trying to insinuate something despite the fact that you don't have anything to point to.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

im kinda aghast that you can get banned because people cursed inside a thread you made. that seems nuts to me.

That's not why she was banned.

 

[Authority]

Your "case closed" post is ridiculous because it was a poor attempt at slamdunk/drop the mic/walk away -type post, but only accomplished at making your intentions even more transparent.

If you have an issue with how RSI has dealt with the matter feel free to contact them and open up a ticket. The fact is RSI has dealt with the matter and there is no other "issue". Now if you are stating that RSI has not dealt with the matter then please feel free to do so.

Both parties are wrong and I have presented their wrongdoings equally. The takedown was objective and in accordance with evidence brought forward.

Have you got proof to dispute that?

She doesn't come off as extreme left-wing; you're projecting and using out-of-context snippets of text as "proof" of an unsavory agenda you imagined she has.

No of course she is not an extreme left-wing or holds extreme left-wing views. She just happens to categorize the male gaming population as sexist and a threat to the female gaming population, the Moderator(s) as sexist, the Star Citizen Community as sexist and seeing in "positive light" rape jokes and accepting rape culture.

She just happens to hold those views as every rational being on this planet earth. Perfectly reasonable and rational. Just happens.

In fact all the left wings I know, know that males are sexists and intentionally rapists.

Distorted views? There are a number of transgender, gay and women gamers in this thread who have relayed to you their experiences with gaming communities across the Internet: there is a very clear pattern of racism, homophobia, transphobia and anti-women behavior across nearly all gaming forums

Absolute statements branding an entire population as sexist is sexist itself. But again you are right. These are healthy views just like the view that British people are lazy and do not want to work and all those views that generalize everything and everyone.

Come again?

I wholeheartedly agree having experienced it myself. The gaming male community IS misogynist among many other awful things -- no, not every person -- but the overall tolerance for that shit, the adulation of guys like Gabe and disdain for outspoken critics of video game themes and stereotypes makes that very obvious.

So you calling the gaming male community misogynistic is not stereotyping? It is an academic discourse with clear and solid evidence that has been approved by science right? Am I right?

You're gonna sit there and deny someone else's honest experiences (see below), corroborated by numerous other posters? Why?

So with your logic because women have cheated on me and other men have been cheated on, the female population supports cheating on men. Right?

No one is denying that there is sexism in gaming culture just like there is racism and so on and so forth. I am denying you the right and rightfully so to make absolute statements, and I do not use deny in the not allowing you sense, that are biased and hold no grounds apart from anecdotal data.

I have to agree with AnotherDustInTheWind; there is a serious amount of concern trolling and purely distracting elements throughout this thread that continues to dissect her background, past history

Questioning someone's intention(s) or idea(s) is called critically thinking and gathering all the missing pieces of the puzzle is called reasoning.

Ignoring evidence is a poor attempt to mislead the public and the discussion. And arguments such as "concern trolling", "you are the reason that women need a safe zone", "goon conspiracy", "secretly being a misogynist" cannot be taken seriously.

That is how a thread is derailed. When one side lacks evidence and results to ad hominem statements.

Your aim is to make everyone believe that her views are right, she was right, she is the victim because she and you said so.

As a 'Goon" myself, this is probably the dumbest post I've read in a while on these forums. This is beyond insulting, to think that just because we're apart of some group that we automatically have intentions of tearing down something from the inside

You do know that being a Goon does not mean that you are intelligent, more intelligent than me or make intelligent posts right?

But you are right as well. You are Samaritans. You seek peace, you are Peacemakers and you use peaceful methods and tools to promote peace. You never make trouble, never. Your in-game behavior has been praised by the Queen of England and the people that oppose you are secret agents working for the government. Am I doing it right?

Sorry there are so many of us that we can pretty much do what we want, but that's how life works. Goons actually go to games they think are worth playing, and will do everything they can to have fun. But just like NeoGaf, there will inevitably be assholes, but that's also life.

Life works both ways because it takes two to tango.

Your reputation is that you are one of the most if not the most hated group on the gaming community. So maybe we should open up a champagne and celebrate on that.

But SA is also one of the biggest social justice groups in the world. We've funded armor for troops in the war, we frequently do all types of charities, took on pedophiles, scam artists, and Scientologist.

You and millions of people. That does not mean you are a saint and free from public scrutiny and does not make your case more believable or more justified or guaranteeing that you are right.

And just because she's a female gamer, she's a troll? Maybe she didn't like that a game she potentially spent thousands on is contemplating allowing cyberrape but not for her to have a female club?

Evidence that they are contemplating of allowing cyber-rape?

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

So is neogaf some proxy battleground for some war between two sites?

 

[uguus]

I can't believe that people are trying to use the 'if the situation was switched and men were trying to make a no girls allowed club it would be sexist!! double standard!!' as a valid argument.
As though this hasn't already been the case throughout history and to this day lol.
I'm not really one to advocate the fight fire with fire mentality, so I don't think that men 'deserve' to be treated with inequality like women have, but I also don't see how being excluded from a small part of one community on an entire forum is such an upsetting thing
No one is going to miss anything by being 'left out', it's never going to be the centre point of the entire forum, so I don't see why its so scandalous to have a tiny portion of the communities that is guaranteed to be free from the things I've seen both on this thread and on the infamously cited Star Citizen ones.

 

[Minsc]

This is really starting to remind me too much of a console vs pc war thread in a weird way, and I sort of feel it's run its course for now. We have the issue addressed, everyone had time to respond to the resolution, and now things are just getting a tad silly. So until next time.