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12 Years, $700 Million, and Still No Game: The Turbulent Saga of Star Citizen
- Thread starter TVexperto
- Start date
diffusionx
Gold Member
People who spent $50 because they wanted a new Wing Commander have been waiting 12 years lol, and instead they get to play a buggy as shit, incomplete, disaster of a space dork life sim that offers them spaceships for hundreds of dollars.
Shadowstar39
Member
How now, hardly a boomer. Gen X here, don't know why you guys call anyone older than you boomer, its just strange.
That being said. Don't have tons of disposable income (ok enough to buy new games when they are on sale), but had a 80386 with CD/Soundblaster pro, SVGA 1mb, Win 3.0.1 back in 1991. My first cd rom was Wing commander 2/Ultima Underworld combo disc. Thing had full voice acting for wing commander 2. Back in 92', that was crazy as nothing had voice overs.
I just want a recreation of what was done but with better graphics. Peak space game was Freelancer. and no one has been able to repeat the formula to a t.
I'd love an arcady space game that actualy has free roam and missions with rpg elements to it.
I'd settle for a remake or sequel to the first
Haven't given star citizen a dime.
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Gamerfan81
Member
This is the best grifting of all. Even the social outrage grifters on youtube can only dream of this. $700 million? Man, this is class A grifting.
TVexperto
Member
At this point after all the money he spend on this scam
Buggy Loop
could have bought a yacht himself
Buggy Loop
Member
At this point after all the money he spend on this scam
Aren't you the evocati dude that spent a decade in this game and probably invested a small fortune compared to me?
I have a starter pack from 2013 and 2 whooping ships
Fuck off TV
Cassette after cassette in a loop
We're back to Chris Roberts Yacht stories...
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Nah, you can literally take off and land on any planet in this 10 year old game in real time with no loading screens.
SweetTooth
Gold Member
They are milking the poorest segment of our industry 
JPSLotus97T
Member
I wonder what keeps people going with this uh... "game".
I have a hard enough time justifying spending $60-$70 on new releases unless its something exceptional, so I can't imagine shoveling money into this trash.
I have a hard enough time justifying spending $60-$70 on new releases unless its something exceptional, so I can't imagine shoveling money into this trash.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They are milking the poorest segment of our industry
AngelMuffin
Member
Could have made Concord 1 & 2 for that.
TVexperto
Member
Interesting rebuttal - nothing says confidence in a project like avoiding facts with insults.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
"Still no game"
"playing this scam for a decade".
Pick one, OP. -_-'
"playing this scam for a decade".
Pick one, OP. -_-'
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{insert code here}
Member
12 years and 700M, all public. How is it so hard then for some people to believe Skull and Bones (11 years) cost 600M or that Concord (8 years) cost 400M?
StueyDuck
Member
Yet people will play the latest broken barely functioning 400 mil + game and the word scam never gets thrown around 
.
I paid 30$ and have gotten more game out of it than starfield...
Are they shit at hitting deadlines... yes... is there feature creepy... yes.
Are they doing something highly ambitious that modern AAA games are too shit scared to try, also yes.
.I paid 30$ and have gotten more game out of it than starfield...
Are they shit at hitting deadlines... yes... is there feature creepy... yes.
Are they doing something highly ambitious that modern AAA games are too shit scared to try, also yes.
Ribi
Member
im glad you acknowledge the 2 games in development and understand that modern-day standards have caught up to the project expenses. Meaning normal games nowadays will cost this much per game. So while we shit on the budget, by modern games standards it is a bit higher than average but that gap is shrinking.
Buggy Loop
Member
Facts?
That I should be an owner of a yacht with the purchase of a starter pack, an Ares ION and a Corsair?
Do you take your meds?
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porkchopexpress
Member
the open world thing people say they play it and they get enjoyment out of it so who am I to say they are "wrong"? whatever, you want to spend your money on it go for it.
that being said, I don't know how anyone can say that Squadron 42 is anything other than a giant scam at this point IMO
that being said, I don't know how anyone can say that Squadron 42 is anything other than a giant scam at this point IMO
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I have no issue with the 12+ years development. Most games that take 6 years to make are trash.
As long as the players keep supporting it, all is well.
As long as the players keep supporting it, all is well.
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Klayzer
Member
Classic episode. Lol
Buggy Loop
Member
12 "years"
with starting with a crytek demo made by 15 persons for a kickstarter in 2012.
2014 they had a demo of what is equivalent to starfield/Star wars outlaws, on-rail atmosphere entry, hidden with well disguised loadings (ala outlaws), on-rail landing sequences. JPEG planets you could not land anywhere you wanted.
2015 Crytek finds to do it all seamlessly. Basically throw everything to the ground and start again. Star Citizen MMO would use this tech, the technological gap between the MMO and keeping SQ42 on the old technology would be huge.
So that took CIG time and energy.
Satellite studios who have been bought out (one of which Sony bought), satellite studios who did not do a good enough job..
Now up to >1000 employees. You think from 15 to 1000 its all fucking smooth? To make two games, a single player with huge cast of actors and an MMO that will require tech not seen before?
When Bethesda pays $400M, 8 years development with a massive team, with the in-house tools known by all veterans there since they've been using it since freaking Oblivion, a known hierarchy that they know worked for some of their biggest success, team leaders identified, managers in their right place, little to no turn-over, and they they delivered is Starfield? With that fucking loading tech?
Will anyone care about Starfield even 6 months from now?
Industry is filled to the fucking brim with "safe" projects, run by marketing departments, verified by committees, government aided most often even for massive studios like Ubisoft, AND they go for DEI budgets. Just trying to push pretty graphics with the least risks taken in gameplay.
Then you shit on one project aiming for the stars.
Elite Dangerous "released" technically a long time ago. I used to laugh at Star Citizen back in those days and praised ED for a better vision and more reasonable scope. Now its dead. Complete dead end. CEO stepped down, they are millions under, they basically have to rewrite the whole goddamn in-house engine from scratch to meet the fans demand and they lost most of the technical team to even achieve that, not counting they have no fundings to speak of.
Fucking hell, even if it crashes and burns, I prefer having this existing and risking it all then just the fucking "usual". You cannot even open a store page on any devices without having the store bursting with safe no risk games that bring no evolution to any genres.
with starting with a crytek demo made by 15 persons for a kickstarter in 2012.
2014 they had a demo of what is equivalent to starfield/Star wars outlaws, on-rail atmosphere entry, hidden with well disguised loadings (ala outlaws), on-rail landing sequences. JPEG planets you could not land anywhere you wanted.
2015 Crytek finds to do it all seamlessly. Basically throw everything to the ground and start again. Star Citizen MMO would use this tech, the technological gap between the MMO and keeping SQ42 on the old technology would be huge.
- 2015 Amazon
- Cryengine licensed to Amazon, yay?
- 2016
- Oh shit, Amazon released Lumberyard, a copy of cryengine. Why pay a license now. CIG moves to Lumberyard
- CIG (Star Citizen) switched from cryengine to Lumberyard. Crytek tries to sue CIG with an action claiming that CIG had to use cryengine and not allowed to move away from it (LOL). Dismissed in court
- Crytek tries a 2nd time, that CIG violated the GLA by promoting other game engines (Star engine & Lumberyard). Which again, CIG is not competing with Cryengine as they don't sell a license to it. Again, dismissed in court
- 3rd time? Yup. Claimed copyright infringement for removing crytek trademark for the game engine... thing is CIG is no longer using cryengine... dismissed
- 4th? You better believe, something will stick right? Ex Crytek employee was the now CIG attorney, they claimed conflict of interest, they withdrew it themselves..
- 5th... seeking damages, dismissed
- 6th Breach of contract for snippets of cryengine in the video series bugsmashers... dropped
- 7th Failure to provide bug fixes and optimizations. CIG was required to provide any bug fixes and optimizations to crytek when using CryEngine. Crytek claimed they didn't. CIG brought the receipts that they did... Crytek realizes they're a fucking fool and dropped the claim
- 8th Crytek claims CIG shared source code with Faceware, but themselves admit they have zero evidence in support of its claim
Dropped - 9th and last fucking one... Loss of benefits as CIG dropped the engine to Lumberyard and it would be a loss of money source from CIG promoting cryengine... even though there's nothing in GLA obligating CIG to promote CryEngine... dismissed.
- Then massive studio closures. After Crytek had not paid many studios for months, including the Frankfurt studio. Five studio closed.
So that took CIG time and energy.
Satellite studios who have been bought out (one of which Sony bought), satellite studios who did not do a good enough job..
Now up to >1000 employees. You think from 15 to 1000 its all fucking smooth? To make two games, a single player with huge cast of actors and an MMO that will require tech not seen before?
When Bethesda pays $400M, 8 years development with a massive team, with the in-house tools known by all veterans there since they've been using it since freaking Oblivion, a known hierarchy that they know worked for some of their biggest success, team leaders identified, managers in their right place, little to no turn-over, and they they delivered is Starfield? With that fucking loading tech?
Will anyone care about Starfield even 6 months from now?
Industry is filled to the fucking brim with "safe" projects, run by marketing departments, verified by committees, government aided most often even for massive studios like Ubisoft, AND they go for DEI budgets. Just trying to push pretty graphics with the least risks taken in gameplay.
Then you shit on one project aiming for the stars.
Elite Dangerous "released" technically a long time ago. I used to laugh at Star Citizen back in those days and praised ED for a better vision and more reasonable scope. Now its dead. Complete dead end. CEO stepped down, they are millions under, they basically have to rewrite the whole goddamn in-house engine from scratch to meet the fans demand and they lost most of the technical team to even achieve that, not counting they have no fundings to speak of.
Fucking hell, even if it crashes and burns, I prefer having this existing and risking it all then just the fucking "usual". You cannot even open a store page on any devices without having the store bursting with safe no risk games that bring no evolution to any genres.
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AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
After reading the article I wonder who at ORIGIN kept him on a leash and focused. And when he started digital anvil they released their games. I wonder if his time in Hollywood caused an inflated ego. Or initial funding success made him think the money was infinite.
His wife sandy use to run PR. but I haven’t checked in a while so I have no idea.
His wife sandy use to run PR. but I haven’t checked in a while so I have no idea.
chokotoureiki
Member
How tf did it get so high? There should be an investigation into what could be a potential fraud.
diffusionx
Gold Member
12 "years"
with starting with a crytek demo made by 15 persons for a kickstarter in 2012.
2014 they had a demo of what is equivalent to starfield/Star wars outlaws, on-rail atmosphere entry, hidden with well disguised loadings (ala outlaws), on-rail landing sequences. JPEG planets you could not land anywhere you wanted.
2015 Crytek finds to do it all seamlessly. Basically throw everything to the ground and start again. Star Citizen MMO would use this tech, the technological gap between the MMO and keeping SQ42 on the old technology would be huge.
- 2015 Amazon
- Cryengine licensed to Amazon, yay?
- 2016
- Oh shit, Amazon released Lumberyard, a copy of cryengine. Why pay a license now. CIG moves to Lumberyard
- CIG (Star Citizen) switched from cryengine to Lumberyard. Crytek tries to sue CIG with an action claiming that CIG had to use cryengine and not allowed to move away from it (LOL). Dismissed in court
- Crytek tries a 2nd time, that CIG violated the GLA by promoting other game engines (Star engine & Lumberyard). Which again, CIG is not competing with Cryengine as they don't sell a license to it. Again, dismissed in court
- 3rd time? Yup. Claimed copyright infringement for removing crytek trademark for the game engine... thing is CIG is no longer using cryengine... dismissed
- 4th? You better believe, something will stick right? Ex Crytek employee was the now CIG attorney, they claimed conflict of interest, they withdrew it themselves..
- 5th... seeking damages, dismissed
- 6th Breach of contract for snippets of cryengine in the video series bugsmashers... dropped
- 7th Failure to provide bug fixes and optimizations. CIG was required to provide any bug fixes and optimizations to crytek when using CryEngine. Crytek claimed they didn't. CIG brought the receipts that they did... Crytek realizes they're a fucking fool and dropped the claim
- 8th Crytek claims CIG shared source code with Faceware, but themselves admit they have zero evidence in support of its claim
- 9th and last fucking one... Loss of benefits as CIG dropped the engine to Lumberyard and it would be a loss of money source from CIG promoting cryengine... even though there's nothing in GLA obligating CIG to promote CryEngine... dismissed.
- Then massive studio closures. After Crytek had not paid many studios for months, including the Frankfurt studio. Five studio closed.
So that took CIG time and energy.
Satellite studios who have been bought out (one of which Sony bought), satellite studios who did not do a good enough job..
Now up to >1000 employees. You think from 15 to 1000 its all fucking smooth? To make two games, a single player with huge cast of actors and an MMO that will require tech not seen before?
When Bethesda pays $400M, 8 years development with a massive team, with the in-house tools known by all veterans there since they've been using it since freaking Oblivion, a known hierarchy that they know worked for some of their biggest success, team leaders identified, managers in their right place, little to no turn-over, and they they delivered is Starfield? With that fucking loading tech?
Will anyone care about Starfield even 6 months from now?
Industry is filled to the fucking brim with "safe" projects, run by marketing departments, verified by committees, government aided most often even for massive studios like Ubisoft, AND they go for DEI budgets. Just trying to push pretty graphics with the least risks taken in gameplay.
Then you shit on one project aiming for the stars.
Elite Dangerous "released" technically a long time ago. I used to laugh at Star Citizen back in those days and praised ED for a better vision and more reasonable scope. Now its dead. Complete dead end. CEO stepped down, they are millions under, they basically have to rewrite the whole goddamn in-house engine from scratch to meet the fans demand and they lost most of the technical team to even achieve that, not counting they have no fundings to speak of.
Fucking hell, even if it crashes and burns, I prefer having this existing and risking it all then just the fucking "usual". You cannot even open a store page on any devices without having the store bursting with safe no risk games that bring no evolution to any genres.
There is no circumstance, none whatsoever, that a single player game like Wing Commander but with modern stuff should take 12 years to make. It is absurd. and it's not going to take 12 years because it's not going to come out anytime soon, we all know this. The entire Wing Commander series that everyone knows and loves started in 1990 and ended in 1997.
Just because they took that money and decided to make some disaster "mmo" with a funding model built on selling people shit that won't be in the game for five more years, maybe, doesn't justify that.
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digdug2
Member
As someone who has Kickstarted a couple shitty products, I have honked my nose on more than one occasion. I am fully on board with this!
Buggy Loop
Member
Thousands play MMO
Been the biggest income by far. 2023 alone has more funding than the whole funding campaign.
Way more peoples are playing this daily than whatever peak Concord achieved and its bringing in money. That really pisses peoples off.
How many studios went through this kind of rollercoaster for a massive project?
How do you explain Starfield?
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StereoVsn
Gold Member
Yep, that’s the grift. Technically it’s not a scam as long as they are in Dev.As long as they get money and keep developing it... isn't a scam... right? Right?
diffusionx
Gold Member
I explain that Starfield was a massive piece of shit made by people who couldn't do what they wanted to do. But giving them more money wouldn't fix the problem, any more than giving these guys more money has fixed their problems. Eight years ago Star Citizen was a buggy, crappy, slow, unoptimized piece of shit full of half-baked mechanics and unfulfilled promises, and today, it's still all of that. But they can do what they are doing because simps are out there shoveling money at them all the time, as your sad graphic showed. Nothing fundamentally has changed with this project in all this time, they've just found more cans to kick down the road.
nemiroff
Gold Member
Just to add to that, AFAIK there's about 70K to 150K (numbers approx. and uncertain) concurrent players in SC depending on the "size" of the updates. Not too shabby for an alpha
Anyway, CC starts tomorrow!
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ChoosableOne
ChoosableAll
I didn't imagine star citizens like this.
Aren't you the evocati dude that spent a decade in this game and probably invested a small fortune compared to me?
I have a starter pack from 2013 and 2 whooping ships
Fuck off TV
Cassette after cassette in a loop
We're back to Chris Roberts Yacht stories...
Ribi
Member
I'm about to blow your mind... those devs worked with CIG to develop a module for Star Citizen before being bought by Sony.
mayham2199
Member
I have more faith in MS's wait till next year than this game.
rickybooby87
Member
This is obviously the brainchild of Pablo Escobar, he has to clean that money some how.
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Buggy Loop
Member
Ah the easy way out
so 8 years, $400M, a known tech with a known hierarchy and a known inhouse engine.
They just "couldn't do what they wanted to do".
And nobody has
So it shouldn't take time... because
I'm having more fun in the MMO with all the jank than Everspace 2, No man sky, House of the dying sun, you name it. I've played them all.
Stealing peoples' cargo by pirating
They have events. Jumptown, overdrive, xenothreats, etc etc.
Why are they having fun??? STOP HAVING FUN!
Tech and presentation even from a year ago blows Starfield out of the fucking waters
Or even fan captures
Buggy Loop
Member
Firesprite - A PlayStation Studio
Firesprite are an innovative First Party PlayStation development studio based in Liverpool, UK, with over 200 experienced developers creating cutting edge games.
firesprite.com
firesprite was the studio, not firewalk.
They were doing theater of war in SC.
diffusionx
Gold Member
[/QUOTE]
I mean, it's not controversial to say Starfield is a huge hunk of shit, and disappointed pretty much everyone.
But here's also a problem, you're comparing Starfield to a game that actually doesn't exist, except in the highly manicured trailers that they've been releasing to simps to get money over the years. Until Squadron 42 comes out, or, lol, the actual Star Citizen, you can put it up to all the games that actually had to get out and get out through the door. Like you compare a 2014 demo of this "game" to Star Wars Outlaw, well okay except that 2014 demo wasn't an actual product that actually had to hit the market and face customers, was it? it just lived on CIG's servers and existed as an advertisement for funding from gray haired boomers. Everyone else is actually out there releasing games. I always see the Star Citizen simps comparing this tech to games that are out and claiming their game that will be out in <error> will be so much better. Okay, well let's see it. That's why I brought up Squadron 42, because that is supposed to be their actual game and they can't get it out.
If you want to play the space dork fake mmo sim, that's fine, but everyone outside the cult got tired of these fanciful tech demos ages ago. I mean, they were selling land in the game in 2017, can you do anything with that yet?
Buggy Loop
Member
I am playing the MMO and I am having more fun with it than Starfield. End of story. How fucking hard? Most of the funding is due to MMO and for MMO tech.
Would you feel better to bring back the bill of Squadron 42 funding? 2012 to 2016 is stretching it, as the MMO was in discussion also in those times, so $102M for that period. MMO pulls the blanket in the bed for a huge number of employees too.
But no, clickbait that a "game (not s)" with $700M and 12 years development is more easy internet rage for brainlets
Lots of words thrown around to insult
Dude, I backed in 2012 with basic package and didn't make a fucking checklist of everything they've promised or did, I don't give a shit. I started playing last fall. I enjoy my time. Google says its a beacon you could buy with in-game money... sooo again, who gives a shit? Base building is coming and actually has a dedicated panel tomorrow. Is that part of base building part of a beacon mechanic? I don't know. Does it matter if there's billions of square kilometers of planets and you buy a beacon in-game?
Drop it off with the fucking cult bullshit. Dork? You're on a fucking gaming forum.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
Yea obviously most of the resources went into the “mmo”, that’s the whole problem. The pitch was a spiritual sequel to wing commander. That game is not out yet.they decided to do this monstrosity instead. That’s the source of my criticism. I don’t think it’s out of line. They pitch a Wing a commander game and then say you can buy a fake ship to play in a 100 person server for $500. Like lol what. Just finish the fucking game you pitched and shut up about some mmo tech.
As for cult, if the shoe fits. They used to offer refunds. A lot of people refunded because this project was such a bloated mess. There was even a subreddit about it. So those people are gone and the true believers remain.
Loomy
Banned
Sad thing is there's a really really good gameplay loop there. They just need to polish it and stop fucking around with all these bleeding edge R&D and polish it so it doesn't crash every 2 days or every time there's an update.
Have your R&D team work on stuff in the background. No reason - aside from gross and incompetent mismanagement - to have that hold back actually releasing your game.
Have your R&D team work on stuff in the background. No reason - aside from gross and incompetent mismanagement - to have that hold back actually releasing your game.
ResilientBanana
Member
I don’t know, this game has a ton of technology packed into it. I get that it’s expensive but who knows what happens after it’s done?
Buggy Loop
Member
Squadron 42 peoples are saying that the MMO pulls too much money and dev time away from it and MMO peoples are saying that its thanks to them that there's funding to begin with and why even bother for single player when it was maybe 1/10th of the funding.
Each sides want their part more than the other.
Criticism is fine by me. You're disappointed that SQ42 is not out. If I didn't click with MMO I would also be disappointed.
Game was mismanaged? Yes. There's no defending that.
I suggest to watch Citizencon tomorrow then and watch the inevitable Squadron 42 panel. I don't know what happens tomorrow. But at least I prefer peoples discuss what they see or what they expected / disappointed with or happy with than just yacht memes and screaming "scam" for easy dopamine hits.
Icymanipulator
Member
Every year that passes the graphics look a little less amazing, by the time it comes out plenty of games will look as good and better.
