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Shadowrun Returns |OT| Never, ever cut a deal with a dragon.

MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
I haven't seen this posted yet, but the Steam page is up:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/234650/

10% off both the regular edition and deluxe version.

Digital Deluxe version includes:

The Shadowrun Returns Soundtrack
From the composers of the classic Shadowrun SEGA and SNES games, the Shadowrun Returns Soundtrack pays homage to the past with a modern sentiment.

Shadowrun Returns Anthology
Explore the story of Shadowrun Returns even further with an illustrated PDF of 16 short stories written by authors from Shadowrun’s past, present and future. As a bonus, the anthology also Includes over 60 pages of concept art from the creation of the game.
Click to expand...

For $31.49, I I think I will pass. I'm a little disappointed that the Linux version isn't shown as being available. I guess we are going to have to wait on that one.
 
EviLore

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Watashiwa said:
The thing about implications is that they're all in your head. All HBS did was choose not to correct the general misassumption, likely because they didn't yet know what they'd do with the second city. They never once said that you'd get a campaign that takes place in Seattle and goes to Berlin. We said that, and it's our own fault for letting hype cloud our mind.

Also wait, what DRM. The game doesn't have any if you download through their site, and has Steam if you choose not to.
Click to expand...

You're running damage control, so this needs to be addressed.

Regarding DRM, the DRM-free version was intended as the main release of the game, with other platforms like Steam investigated after the fact in a secondary capacity, explicitly in the Kickstarter campaign. Post-Kickstarter this turned into the DRM-free version being made available to Kickstarter backers only and not sold otherwise, with limited support for mod content and updates, while the Steam version became the main supported release, due to a licensing agreement with Microsoft requiring DRM that was not finalized until after the Kickstarter campaign ended. This fact and its implications for the promises of the campaign were not disclosed until after the Kickstarter ended and they received everyone's money.

The Berlin campaign was a stretch goal for inclusion in the game. As with Doublefine's project, post-Kickstarter this was shunted into a separate release, which can be an understandable consequence of management setbacks and time/money allocation, but the kicker here is that Berlin will be sold as paid DLC to everyone except the Kickstarter backers. Berlin was never described as such during the Kickstarter.

Kickstarter is a system of patronage, not just a preorder system, in the case of Shadowrun's campaign. Consumers funded a project not just to receive the project or bonus swag, but in order to have a game made that could not otherwise be made, and for that game to be available to the general public with the parameters described in the Kickstarter pitch.

Harebrained Schemes acted in bad faith with the DRM situation and the Berlin campaign by not disclosing the status of the licensing deal with Microsoft (which led to DRM restrictions) and by selling a stretch goal as paid DLC after the fact. It may not matter to many of the backers as it does not affect them directly in terms of what they specifically receive, but it's not as simple as that. How I (and others) back a project is influenced by the inclusion of a DRM-free release, the platforms it's being made available on, and the content being included in the game.
 
I

Ixion090

Member
So, why did so many react like that with the inclusion of DRM? I know they said you would be able to play it DRM-free, and I understand some people feel betrayed. But why are they so against Steam DRM? I've never heard about Steam screwing people, and they can give the game considerable exposure which is good too, but I have seen many saying they won't buy because they don't want to be screwed over by the DRM.

By the way, can't wait for the game to come out. Six days left!
 
R

Remachinate

Member
EviLore said:
You're running damage control, so this needs to be addressed.

Regarding DRM, the DRM-free version was intended as the main release of the game, with other platforms like Steam investigated after the fact in a secondary capacity, explicitly in the Kickstarter campaign. Post-Kickstarter this turned into the DRM-free version being made available to Kickstarter backers only and not sold otherwise, with limited support for mod content and updates, while the Steam version became the main supported release, due to a licensing agreement with Microsoft requiring DRM that was not finalized until after the Kickstarter campaign ended. This fact and its implications for the promises of the campaign were not disclosed until after the Kickstarter ended and they received everyone's money.

The Berlin campaign was a stretch goal for inclusion in the game. As with Doublefine's project, post-Kickstarter this was shunted into a separate release, which can be an understandable consequence of management setbacks and time/money allocation, but the kicker here is that Berlin will be sold as paid DLC to everyone except the Kickstarter backers. Berlin was never described as such during the Kickstarter.

Kickstarter is a system of patronage, not just a preorder system, in the case of Shadowrun's campaign. Consumers funded a project not just to receive the project or bonus swag, but in order to have a game made that could not otherwise be made, and for that game to be available to the general public with the parameters described in the Kickstarter pitch.

Harebrained Schemes acted in bad faith with the DRM situation and the Berlin campaign by not disclosing the status of the licensing deal with Microsoft (which led to DRM restrictions) and by selling a stretch goal as paid DLC after the fact. It may not matter to many of the backers as it does not affect them directly in terms of what they specifically receive, but it's not as simple as that. How I (and others) back a project is influenced by the inclusion of a DRM-free release, the platforms it's being made available on, and the content being included in the game.
Click to expand...

I fully agree that the lack of full disclosure regarding DRM during the Kickstarter is problematic, but I can't see the Berlin DLC as an issue, unless you believe that the cost of the lowest backer tier that gives you a copy of the game is intended to be a binding representation of the game's pricing at release (after accounting for the backer discount). Effectively, the cost of the game funded via Kickstrter for non-backers will be the base game cost plus the DLC cost (say, $20 + $15). Would it have been similarly bad-faith if they charged $35 for the base game with free DLC, simply because the backer cost was $15?
 
KyanMehwulfe

KyanMehwulfe

Member
Decker in the tabletop, SNES, and Genesis game. Been a Decker in most every other sci-fi game since that allows me a chance to 'run the matrix,' a Fixer in Anarchy Online being a favorite. Shadowrun ganger whenever I get the chance, too. We had a fixer gang in AO that would use its 'matrix' to jump around the world quickly and try terrorize enemy Clan NPCs. Had a Chemist gunner gang in FF Tactics, ignoring the story and just hunting monsters. XCOM, Syndicate. Whether it was a gang, cadre, or squad, strategy games with a small group of RPG characters have always been a centerpiece of my favorite games.

Genesis version I used to purposely never hire 'indefinitely' just to boost my reputation with each runner to make sure we became better friends. SNES, don't remember there being any mechanics but used to have my favorite two runners, too -- always running together. And, after XCOM, I'm definitely looking for more squad-based tactics gameplay. And, most of all, finally back to the slums of Seattle and Shadowrun.
 
Admiral Snackbar

Admiral Snackbar

Member
Mega-Hyped. Gonna blaze through this thing and get cracking on a custom campaign for each of my Tabletop Team to go through individually. Side stories and tailored loot that I'll approve for use in the tabletop bi-weekly game? YES THIS WILL BE THE BEST THING EVER.
 
D

Dremark

Banned
Remachinate said:
I fully agree that the lack of full disclosure regarding DRM during the Kickstarter is problematic, but I can't see the Berlin DLC as an issue, unless you believe that the cost of the lowest backer tier that gives you a copy of the game is intended to be a binding representation of the game's pricing at release (after accounting for the backer discount). Effectively, the cost of the game funded via Kickstrter for non-backers will be the base game cost plus the DLC cost (say, $20 + $15). Would it have been similarly bad-faith if they charged $35 for the base game with free DLC, simply because the backer cost was $15?
Click to expand...

People are upset about Berlin because they used it as a carrot on a stick to get more backing without representing that it was paid DLC.
 
S

Soyongdori

Member
I have never played the previous SNES game before but I'm very interested in this game. I'm assuming it has nothing to do with the early 360 game Shadowrun? The gameplay reminds me of Fallout Tactics and Wasteland. Does this game have dialog choices?

Should I get Xcom now or save my money for Shadowrun?
 
D

Dremark

Banned
Ixion090 said:
So, why did so many react like that with the inclusion of DRM? I know they said you would be able to play it DRM-free, and I understand some people feel betrayed. But why are they so against Steam DRM? I've never heard about Steam screwing people, and they can give the game considerable exposure which is good too, but I have seen many saying they won't buy because they don't want to be screwed over by the DRM.

By the way, can't wait for the game to come out. Six days left!
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly I had backed at $250 to get a physical copy of the game. I see no point in having such a thing for a version of the game that is gimped.

Also I don't agree with DRM only releases and the release of a game that only releases that way is not something I want to back.
 
A

adj_noun

Member
Soyongdori said:
I have never played the previous SNES game before but I'm very interested in this game. I'm assuming it has nothing to do with the early 360 game Shadowrun? The gameplay reminds me of Fallout Tactics and Wasteland. Does this game have dialog choices?
Click to expand...

Correct, it has nothing to do with the 360 version of Shadowrun aside from the IP.

Yup, it has dialogue choices.

Dremark said:
If I remember correctly I had backed at $250 to get a physical copy of the game. I see no point in having such a thing for a version of the game that is gimped.
Click to expand...

You remember correctly -- all tiers $125 and up included a physical copy.
 
B

biocat

Member
LOVED the Genesis version.

Despite all the setbacks and controversy, I can't wait to get back into that universe.
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
The SNES version was probably in my top 3 SNES games of all time. Man I worshiped that game.
 
M

Myomoto

Member
Launching right at the end of the steam sale might have been a slight statistical miscalculation, but let's see. Hopefully they manage to turn a neat little profit either way.
 
G

Gbraga

Member
Myomoto said:
Launching right at the end of the steam sale might have been a slight statistical miscalculation, but let's see. Hopefully they manage to turn a neat little profit either way.
Click to expand...

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but it actually helped with my decision, I just included Shadowrun and The Raven - Legacy of a Master Thief in my Summer Sale budget.
 
Clockwork5

Clockwork5

Member
If this turns out even half as good as it could be I will be completely satisfied. I have been waiting for this for a long, long time.
 
R

Remachinate

Member
Dremark said:
People are upset about Berlin because they used it as a carrot on a stick to get more backing without representing that it was paid DLC.
Click to expand...

Again, what difference does it make whether it was made paid DLC for non-backers? Non-backers will have the same content available to them as backers, it's just a matter of total cost. Should the price of all content for non-backers be expected to be established during the Kickstarter?
 
C

Clydebink

Neo Member
I loved the 360 multiplayer-only Shadowrun game. I know that it is barely related, but I don't know what parts of the game I played are part of the canon Shadowrun universe. Are there trees of life, and anti-magic grenades that can destroy them? Are zombie-chains a real thing (someone you ressurect, ressurects someone else, so when you die those other two characters lower on the heirachy will eventually bleed out and die). Can dwarves cast "strangle" and then absorb them back when they run low on magic? I loved all that stuff. I'm sure I'll buy this game too, but I forsee having some awkward moments when things don't work as I think they should.
 
M

Mackenzie 92

Member
Clydebink said:
I loved the 360 multiplayer-only Shadowrun game. I know that it is barely related, but I don't know what parts of the game I played are part of the canon Shadowrun universe. Are there trees of life, and anti-magic grenades that can destroy them? Are zombie-chains a real thing (someone you ressurect, ressurects someone else, so when you die those other two characters lower on the heirachy will eventually bleed out and die). Can dwarves cast "strangle" and then absorb them back when they run low on magic? I loved all that stuff. I'm sure I'll buy this game too, but I forsee having some awkward moments when things don't work as I think they should.
Click to expand...



It really was great multiplayer shooter. I still play it from time to time.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Clydebink said:
I loved the 360 multiplayer-only Shadowrun game. I know that it is barely related, but I don't know what parts of the game I played are part of the canon Shadowrun universe. Are there trees of life, and anti-magic grenades that can destroy them? Are zombie-chains a real thing (someone you ressurect, ressurects someone else, so when you die those other two characters lower on the heirachy will eventually bleed out and die). Can dwarves cast "strangle" and then absorb them back when they run low on magic? I loved all that stuff. I'm sure I'll buy this game too, but I forsee having some awkward moments when things don't work as I think they should.
Click to expand...

I think the biggest problem was that everyone expected an open world RPG along the lines of Elder Scrolls, only Cyberpunk, and we got anything but.
(Thanks, based CD Projeckt Red.)
 
T

tenchir

Member
They are going with a purely class based character customization rather than skill based customization with predefine roles?
 
D

Dremark

Banned
Remachinate said:
Again, what difference does it make whether it was made paid DLC for non-backers? Non-backers will have the same content available to them as backers, it's just a matter of total cost. Should the price of all content for non-backers be expected to be established during the Kickstarter?
Click to expand...

Details of how the game is being released should be established and disclosed when asking for funding. People got upset about this because they were deceived.

Presenting it as another area in the game rather than add on dlc gives people a different impression about the nature of the product and makes them more likely to donate larger amounts. Had they accurately presented it as add on dlc people would have been less likely to fund.
 
G

Gbraga

Member
Remachinate said:
Again, what difference does it make whether it was made paid DLC for non-backers? Non-backers will have the same content available to them as backers, it's just a matter of total cost. Should the price of all content for non-backers be expected to be established during the Kickstarter?
Click to expand...

You're looking at it with the "kickstarter = preorder" mentality, that's why you're not getting it. You see, I personally agree with you and I back games I'm interested in playing, in hope they release it and I can get my copy, usually for the lowest tier where I can get my digital copy, but not everyone is like us, it's one thing to say "Hey guys, if we reach this stretch goal there'll be an entirely new area in the game!", and another thing to say "Hey guys, do you want to fund DLC for our game? The same thing you learned to despise this past generation?".

I didn't back it (didn't have my gaming PC back then, just a crappy one, so I didn't bother, since I see Kickstarter as preorders), preordered it on Steam and will probably buy the DLC as well, but for people that don't think like us, some of them might even have upped their pledge to help them achieve the new goal because they wanted the new game from the IP they love to be as good as possible, as big as possible, as complete as possible. They already had their game and the reward tiers they wanted, so any amount they put after the stretch goal announcement, ended up being just to fund DLC. I can understand that frustration. Stretch Goals shouldn't be (or at least weren't before) things you want money to do, but things that will enhance the product you're kickstarting. People went into the Skullgirls fundraiser knowing it was a DLC fundraiser, they weren't "tricked" (not really the right word, and I don't mean to offend the Shadowrun guys) into it, and even then, since it's crowdfunded, the Skullgirls DLC will be available for free to everyone, even non backers, for 3 months, you grab it, it's yours to keep. There is a big difference.

EDIT: But a friend did tell me they were offerind refunds for people not happy about it, that's very cool of them.
 
P

Pikma

Banned
I don't even care for the lack of a DRM free version, nor the DLC, the actual thing that bothers me is the fact that they intentionally (or at least that's what it seems) kept those details under the rug. I would even go as far as to say they lied and that's the problem right there for me.

I'm so fucking excited about the game, I'm a big fan of the SNES original, too bad things like these got to affect the release hype and all of that.
 
R

Remachinate

Member
Dremark said:
Details of how the game is being released should be established and disclosed when asking for funding. People got upset about this because they were deceived.

Presenting it as another area in the game rather than add on dlc gives people a different impression about the nature of the product and makes them more likely to donate larger amounts. Had they accurately presented it as add on dlc people would have been less likely to fund.
Click to expand...

Why would backers change their minds about how much to donate? As a backer, I'm still getting both as part of my pledge, and I'd much rather have one campaign available as soon as it's complete rather than wait for both to be finished before playing.

Gbraga said:
Stretch Goals shouldn't be (or at least weren't before) things you want money to do, but things that will enhance the product you're kickstarting
Click to expand...

I really don't see the difference. Isn't DLC the definition of a product enhancement, albeit post-relase?
 
V

Vyse The Legend

Member
Based on last week's RebelFM, it sounds like review copies are out there. I wonder when the embargo will lift.

Also, Arthur Gies is reviewing the game for Polygon, so I expect an automatic 4/10.
 
Y

yog-sothot

Member
This will be the first game I've kickstarted to be actually released... Regardless the DRM issue (which is bad but does not affect me to be honest... I know it's selfish...) I just hope the game will be good. Even though other games I've kickstarted are from other developpers, I'd consider it a bad omen if the game ended up sucking.
 
N

Naito

Member
Decided to pre-purchase, not sure what to expect since I jumped in at the last moment,
I'm nonetheless extremely curious :)
 
S

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Vyse The Legend said:
Based on last week's RebelFM, it sounds like review copies are out there. I wonder when the embargo will lift.

Also, Arthur Gies is reviewing the game for Polygon, so I expect an automatic 4/10.
Click to expand...

I expect a 8/10 which is then downgraded to a 3/10 before settling on a 5/10.
 
F

Figboy79

Aftershock LA
I can't wait for this!

I already got my Steam key from the Kickstarter, so now, it's the waiting game. But it's only a few days more, and I've been waiting for a Shadowrun game for years. I can hold on just a little bit longer.
 
V

Vespene

Member
I did not back it, but I pre-ordered it.

Gratitude to those who made this project possible.

I'd say Kickstarter has its pros and cons. There are more cons than pros, but the pros shine brighter... sometimes.
 
C

CBTech

Member
To be honest, I am not a huge fan of Shadowrun's mixture of cyberpunk and fantasy, but I have been itching for a cyberpunk video game and this looks pretty damn good.

Any recommendations for other cyberpunk video games out there? I've played Deus Ex: HR, which was fantastic, though I still need to play the original game.
 
K

kidko

Member
I don't expect it to blow minds, but to be a quality romp through some Shadowrunny goodness that gets much better with user content.
 
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