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[bill0527]

Indiana: the outstretched middle finger of the South

The town I live in southern Indiana sits right on the Ohio River and is considered a historical site because it was a major pipeline for the underground railroad. The confederates tried 3 times to bombard the town while sitting across the Ohio River in Kentucky and were beaten back every time.

 

[SteveMeister]

Well, I'm glad and this has become especially noticeable in NYC. When it's 6PM on a freeway...there's no stop-and-go traffic anymore. Congestion has decreased quite a bit, and it's amazing.

Lack of stop and go = improved gas mileage.

Unless you have certain hybrids. Stop & Go means more electric driving, engine shut-off and regenerative braking. Up to a point, of course

 

[White Man]

This just means Americans are sitting at home and watching more TV and use more Air conditioning. May use less gas but fuel consumption is still probably about the same.

Actually, it was one of the worst seasons on record for TV viewing. I'm assuming that most Americans are just staying home and masturbating.

 

[dabig2]

this is crap. really? So let's see what our other options are:

ghetto house in the slum.
$100K studio condo downtown
?????

I love how people just assume there is affordable housing in decent neighborhoods in every metro area in america. And I mean hell, I live in the metro area (though still a suburb) and when you are dealing with a metro area that is up to 100 sq mi mass transit can STILL take almost two hours to get you where you need to go. Oh, and let's talk about all those jobs that AREN'T available in the metro area so even if you live there you still have to drive out to the burbs to work anyway. or you could live out by your job and still have to drive to the necessities every day or every other day.

and it is correct that suburpia sprung up when every family owned a car or two and drove everywhere they needed... but before we go talking about the good old days, let's remember that gas barely budged for 50 years. I mean we are talking about a whole 4-5 times rise over like 50 some years. and then in the last 8 years or so it has almost tripled? I mean hell, the entire time I've been on this planet we've lived in the middle of nowhere... no problems. then the oil companies get greedy because they realize they have america by the shorthairs. That's all this is, nothing more. Well, all I can say is what goes around comes around. They fuck us over and raise prices through the roof, get ready to see them take a massive hit somewhere along the way.

There's a whole lotta truth and logic in here Gaf. I definitely want to bring attention to the bolded. Guess what, not all people move out to the suburbs just to get a nice plot of land for the hell of it. Over the last 25 years, businesses have been moving out to the suburbs and away from the metropolitan/dense city areas as that's where the undeveloped land is. That's why new development houses have sprung up so fast outside the more densely populated urban centers.

 

[dammitmattt]

Actually, it was one of the worst seasons on record for TV viewing. I'm assuming that most Americans are just staying home and masturbating.

And playing Wii.

 

[dammitmattt]

There's a whole lotta truth and logic in here Gaf. I definitely want to bring attention to the bolded. Guess what, not all people move out to the suburbs just to get a nice plot of land for the hell of it. Over the last 25 years, businesses have been moving out to the suburbs and away from the metropolitan/dense city areas as that's where the undeveloped land is. That's why new development houses have sprung up so fast outside the more densely populated urban centers.

The solution isn't to redesign America. That's impossible.

The solution is more power and electric cars. And right now, nuclear is the only feasible option to provide more power.

 

[tnw]

a couple of my japanese coworkers were talking about there summer trips.

pretty much all of them are going to drive cars to where they are going. Taking a family of four on a train trip is pretty expensive. You would think the train companies would know this and offer deals to entice people like this to use the trains, but they don't as far as I know.

I know I would probably end up driving too. train is expensive enough for one person.

I wonder what will happen to the US if gas prices keep going up the way they are. :/

 

[Meier]

I'll say this regarding my previous point, I'm going to pay $1,100 a month to rent a condo.. my parents house payment is about the same. To get cheap mass transit, you have to spend a shitload elsewhere.. it's a shame how that works.

 

[dammitmattt]

I wonder what will happen to the US if gas prices keep going up the way they are. :/

The private sector would have more incentive to push out electric cars and electric filling stations. The great thing about capitalism is that there is always someone there to capitalize (no pun intended) on bad situations.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

Actually, it was one of the worst seasons on record for TV viewing. I'm assuming that most Americans are just staying home and masturbating.

I spent my holiday weekend digging a hole. I need a new patio, and after my last DIY project, I promised myself that next time I'd hire it out. With fuel prices what they are, I'm saving up to heat my house this winter, and have to do the patio on my own. So not only did someone not get a job (putting in a patio), I did not go to the shore and spend money eating out, buying souvenirs, and staying at a hotel. Instead I will just donate all of my money the United Arab Emirates this winter so they can build some more islands and hotels.

 

[Duke Togo]

How does it feel to be trapped in the suburbs!?

 

[tnw]

The private sector would have more incentive to push out electric cars and electric filling stations. The great thing about capitalism is that there is always someone there to capitalize (no pun intended) on bad situations.

yeah, probably.

but if fuel surchrages for flights continue to climb more than the 400 dollars that they already are, I might not fly anymore....

the should get Tata motorsin the US, and release a hybrid aircar. that would be perfect., in my pie in the sky reality.

 

[theBishop]

Hey, no one forced you to buy a house in the middle of nowhere...


As far as I'm concerned, North America is pretty much an absolute failure in terms of neighbourhood design. All these suburbs popped-up in the middle of automotive exuberance, and no one even considered not driving everywhere. Hell, my neighbourhood doesn't even have SIDEWALKS. (But I live fairly close to a shopping centre, at least.)

I was trying to make this point to my parents and they weren't having it. They couldn't get past the pure economics that they can afford cars/gas therefore that's how they get around.

 

[dammitmattt]

I was trying to make this point to my parents and they weren't having it. They couldn't get past the pure economics that they can afford cars/gas therefore that's how they get around.

Where do they live? There are very few affordable places within cities with mass transit for middle class families.

 

[saelz8]

Makes me miss Germany

I hate how everything is spread out here.

 

[Neo C.]

I need a car because there is no other way to go 20 miles to go shopping or walking the 9 miles to my friends house in a reasonable amount of time...

Eh, I go to friends with my bike, 15km or more. No problem at all. Hell, one of my friend even goes with his bike in winter.

 

[Beer Monkey]

How does it feel to be trapped in the suburbs!?

The irony is that I moved to the suburbs from the city to be close to my work, which was also in the suburbs. My motivations were both environmental and economical. Now, several years later, changes beyond by control resulted in me having to take a job 40 miles from home (in yet another, more distant suburb). I'd move again but the depressed housing market is causing some problems with that.

You people should really stop stereotyping everybody who doesn't live in the city.

 

[Skiptastic]

Indiana: the outstretched middle finger of the South

:| No. Just no.

 

[dammitmattt]

How does it feel to be trapped in the suburbs!?

I love the suburbs. I feel safe. I have the freedom to go wherever I want, whenever I want without having to worry about parking and rarely having to worry about traffic. I have cheap grocery options and plenty of food and shopping all around me.

Plus, once I'm in my house in a few months, I will have the privacy and the room for my fiancee and our future family, including a back yard for my dog(s) and a front yard to play ball with my future kids.

On top of that, I can get to the city in 15 minutes whenever I want.

Newsflash - most people move to suburbs because they want to move there.

 

[Nerevar]

and it is correct that suburpia sprung up when every family owned a car or two and drove everywhere they needed... but before we go talking about the good old days, let's remember that gas barely budged for 50 years. I mean we are talking about a whole 4-5 times rise over like 50 some years. and then in the last 8 years or so it has almost tripled?

Right ... this didn't happen before. In the 70s.

I wish I could find the link to that Jimmy Carter Onion article right now.

 

[radios shipping overview]

I love the suburbs. I feel safe. I have the freedom to go wherever I want, whenever I want without having to worry about parking and rarely having to worry about traffic. I have cheap grocery options and plenty of food and shopping all around me.

Plus, once I'm in my house in a few months, I will have the privacy and the room for my fiancee and our future family, including a back yard for my dog(s) and a front yard to play ball with my future kids.

On top of that, I can get to the city in 15 minutes whenever I want.

Newsflash - most people move to suburbs because they want to move there.

And this, friends, is why we are in an energy/food/resource crisis.

 

[SRG01]

The US is set up assuming everyone has a private vehicle. Outside of urban areas, very few people live where they work, or shop where they live. Americans have to drive everywhere. There's some mass transit, but not much as you get away from city centers, and none of it is inter-connected. It's the way the country is set up.

For many (probably for most), "driving less" simply isn't an option. Owning a car is a necessity more than it is a status symbol. And that's why there needs to be more of a focus on alternatively powered vehicles. Because setting up new infrastructure to support hydrogen fuel cells or battery exchange centers is far, far cheaper than building light rail everywhere, and much less of a cultural and logistical hurdle than setting up bus lines that cover everyone's needs.

Hydrogen fuel cells aren't going to be happening in the next few decades. The technology is still very far off.

We'll see pure electric vehicles before hydrogen really takes off, namely because we have the technology for it already.

 

[Nerevar]

And this, friends, is why we are in an energy/food/resource crisis.

In all fairness, "the suburbs" means a lot of different things to different people. The post-WWII-era suburbs (like Arlington, VA) are certainly not the end of civilization as we know it. They were well-served by mass transit and populated with modest homes. The real problem is the sprawling subdivision lifestyle that people have become addicted to. 4-bedroom, 2.5-bath mini-mansions situated on an acre of land is excessive for anyone at any stage of life and completely unnecessary.

 

[ConsumerSquare]

Right ... this didn't happen before. In the 70s.

I wish I could find the link to that Jimmy Carter Onion article right now.

This one?

http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/i_got_what_america_needs_right

Oh, what's that I hear? The weather's all screwy? You got a global warming problem? Boo-fucking-hoo! I was telling you morons to turn off your lights and unplug all your shit at night to conserve energy in 19-fuckin'-75, for chrissake. Gee, I wonder what woulda happened if we'd all switched to solar power like I fucking did back when we had a fucking chance to do something about it. Think we'd still be sucking Saudi Arabia's dick like a five-dollar whore? I sure as fuck didn't get no fancy Oscar for that little spiel, though, did I? No. But Al Gore, that cum-sucking pig, steals the shit from me and now he's the greatest thing since Jesus Christ made a fucking sandwich.

 

[border]

I need a car because there is no other way to go 20 miles to go shopping or walking the 9 miles to my friends house in a reasonable amount of time...

Motorbike, scooter, public transit, etc.

While I approve of scooters and don't feel like scooter-stigma should prevent anyone from making a smart purchase, I would try to find a model that doesn't look quite so gay and flamboyant. Or at least something that does not have a woman's name on it.

 

[Schattenjäger]

And this, friends, is why we are in an energy/food/resource crisis.

rolleyes.gif




i'd say bad preparation on our governments part is the ultimate reason we are in this crisis

 

[Phobophile]

How does it feel to be trapped in the suburbs!?

I abhor it. Little to no planning in infrastructure so we're stuck with two-lane highways out here in the far NW burbs of Chicago.

There aren't young people out here. Everyone's either 14 or 40. Most twentysomethings out here are still suckling at their parents' teats, working retail and most young women out here are single mothers.

 

[Vaxadrin]

The oil prices are not the result of price gouging. The problem is because of oil being traded as a commodity on the stock market. Right now the price does not reflect stock, nor does it reflect demand.

Think of the scene in Trading Places where the announcement of a weather prediciton for the winter affects the price of frozen concentrated orange juice and sends people into a buying/selling frenzy. This is what's happening with the oil prices. An announcement gets made that a hurricane might affect production levels in 3 months and the price skyrockets. Currently, there's more than enough oil stock sitting in barrels in America to meet demand at a reasonable price. Unfortunately, given the way our trading system is structured, that is not reflected in the actual price in a demand/supply system like most other things. Several lobbies are pushing to have a traditional supply & demand pricing structure for oil right now, instead of the current metaphysical pricing structure of percieved value similar to things like gold & diamonds.

This, however, does not stop a whoooole lot of uninformed people from jumping on their soapboxes.

[edit] Also, in 2010 we will all be driving mopeds. Bookmark this post.

 

[Iceman]

Good. Fat Americans should be walking and biking.

i read this as "fat americans should be ... bikini'ing" and about lost my lunch.

 

[dabig2]

I abhor it. Little to no planning in infrastructure so we're stuck with two-lane highways out here in the far NW burbs of Chicago.

There aren't young people out here. Everyone's either 14 or 40. Most twentysomethings out here are still suckling at their parents' teats, working retail and most young women out here are single mothers.

NW burbs eh? I grew up in the Elgin/Schaumburg area my whole life. Good times for the most part.

 

[No Means Nomad]

I abhor it. Little to no planning in infrastructure so we're stuck with two-lane highways out here in the far NW burbs of Chicago.

Hello neighbor.

Also, I'm pretty sure that people neglecting to go places has a negative impact on something that's almost as dire as gas prices: the economy.

 

[Instigator]

I posted this on Warchant regarding gas prices causing potentially lower attendance this year for FSU football. Someone mentioned we were lucky because Europeans have paid more for years. This applies to those cities like New York and Chicago where we're lucky enough to be able to avoid driving -- in most places, it isn't an option.

The flipside of your argument is that many Europeans, particularly in Western Europe, are reluctant to build high towers in their precious little cities (prefering surburbs instead) so the US has a greater potential to pack a lot of people closer to the city centers.

With the involvement of various levels of government, those can also be subsidized housing rather than expensive and exclusive condos.

 

[Skiptastic]

Hello neighbor.

Hello (old) neighbors! Used to rock the Heights of Arlington, now I rock the north side of Indianapolis. Traffic is much, much easier now. Ahhhh....

 

[Dolphin]

Honestly, if there were bike trails that actually led to useful places in my town, I'd ride my bike everywhere and never use my car during the warm months. With the idiots that drive around here though, I'm not going to risk riding at the side of the road. I think a lot more people would ride bikes if there was actually an infrastructure in place to ride them.

 

[dammitmattt]

And this, friends, is why we are in an energy/food/resource crisis.

And this, friends, is the ramblings of an ignorant teenager.

In all fairness, "the suburbs" means a lot of different things to different people. The post-WWII-era suburbs (like Arlington, VA) are certainly not the end of civilization as we know it. They were well-served by mass transit and populated with modest homes. The real problem is the sprawling subdivision lifestyle that people have become addicted to. 4-bedroom, 2.5-bath mini-mansions situated on an acre of land is excessive for anyone at any stage of life and completely unnecessary.

If you have 3 kids or more, this is not excessive at all, and you're not the one to judge other families without (seemingly) having one yourself.

 

[Innotech]

Driving certainly hasnt curtailed at all here. I think it may actually have gone up. This is because we basically dont have any other viable means of getting around. Cabs are few and far between, the busses are a joke, bicycle lanes kill more people than help, and train transport sucks. there really isnt any other choice.

 

[chaostrophy]

And this, friends, is the ramblings of an ignorant teenager.

And this, friends, is an ad hominem attack. Textbook logical fallacy. Not a rational argument and proves nothing whatsoever.

 

[SteveMeister]

Hydrogen fuel cells aren't going to be happening in the next few decades. The technology is still very far off.

Decades?

Honda's making a hydrogen fuel cell car available for lease this year.

I think that within 10 years you'll be seeing a lot more.

 

[Skiptastic]

And this, friends, is an ad hominem attack. Textbook logical fallacy.

And this, friends, is when debate team goes too far.

And this, friends, is when debate team goes too far.

And this, friends, is a sarcastic bastard.

 

[mre]

And this, friends, is the ramblings of an ignorant teenager.



If you have 3 kids or more, this is not excessive at all, and you're not the one to judge other families without (seemingly) having one yourself.

Stupid American. You chose to have a wife. You chose to have 3 children. :lol No one has any sympathy as you try to justify your opulent, excessive, "mini-mansion" existence. You should be happy to live with your "large" family in a two-bedroom, one bathroom house like the rest of us.

 

[Liquid]

AKA: The real reason why gas price are skyrocketing.

but its not the real reason.

Freak disaster = + gas prices
People drive less = + gas prices
People drive more = + gas prices
Small child sprains ankle in the Middle East = +++ gas prices

THIS is the real reason. hell do you not read the news? when has it said once in the past year "oil up due to increased usage in china?" NEVER. every damn morning "131 a barrel based on reports of a POSSIBLE war....132 a barrel based on a POSSIBLE cut in production...133 a barrel based on THE POSSIBILITY OF a sandstorm" its fucking bullshit.

 

[Nerevar]

If you have 3 kids or more, this is not excessive at all, and you're not the one to judge other families without (seemingly) having one yourself.

Right, I can't judge what a family needs because I don't have one, despite at one time being a child within a family myself. :Megafuckingrolleyes

I repeat and stand by my statement earlier. I grew up in a 3-bed (where most of my very young life I shared a single room / bunk bed with my sibling), 1.5 bath house in a nuclear family on a standard plot in a post-WWII suburb. If our expectations of living had remained stagnant we wouldn't be in this mess. The fact that you (and most of the rest of the country) perceive to "need" all of that extra space is the problem.

 

[Innotech]

Stupid American. You chose to have a wife. You chose to have 3 children. :lol No one has any sympathy as you try to justify your opulent, excessive, "mini-mansion" existence. You should be happy to live with your "large" family in a two-bedroom, one bathroom house like the rest of us.

so some people want some space and they are stupid? Some people dont like to live in cramped quarters and able to touch their neighbors house with an outstretched arm. I lived in a 2 BR, 1 bath apartment before this and now we moved into a friends parents rent house with 3 BR 2 bath and it is much better space-wise. I got tired of the cramped quarters of apartment living. I also dont live out in a suburb, but people who do are no different. they just want some peace and quiet and security.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

Decades?

Honda's making a hydrogen fuel cell car available for lease this year.

I think that within 10 years you'll be seeing a lot more.

Am I missing something, or is hydrogen fuel cell car just another way to say electric car? I see a bunch of stuff on that site about H2 and O2, but I don't get where the energy comes from.

 

[dammitmattt]

And this, friends, is an ad hominem attack. Textbook logical fallacy. Not a rational argument and proves nothing whatsoever.

He didn't bother to provide a rational argument, so why should I? What exactly did he prove?

Stupid American. You chose to have a wife. You chose to have 3 children. No one has any sympathy as you try to justify your opulent, excessive, "mini-mansion" existence. You should be happy to live with your "large" family in a two-bedroom, one bathroom house like the rest of us.

I'm just a stupid Alabamian for not living in thriving, safe downtown Birmingham. I guess we're all stupid unless we live in huge city centers, huh?

Right, I can't judge what a family needs because I don't have one, despite at one time being a child within a family myself. :Megafuckingrolleyes

I repeat and stand by my statement earlier. I grew up in a 3-bed (where most of my very young life I shared a single room / bunk bed with my sibling), 1.5 bath house in a nuclear family on a standard plot in a post-WWII suburb. If our expectations of living had remained stagnant we wouldn't be in this mess. The fact that you (and most of the rest of the country) perceive to "need" all of that extra space is the problem.

And you're railing against a house with one more bedroom and one more bath, when there might be very legitimate uses for them (home office, more than 2 kids, etc.). Your house isn't much different than most houses in most suburbs, you know.

so some people want some space and they are stupid? Some people dont like to live in cramped quarters and able to touch their neighbors house with an outstretched arm. I lived in a 2 BR, 1 bath apartment before this and now we moved into a friends parents rent house with 3 BR 2 bath and it is much better space-wise. I got tired of the cramped quarters of apartment living. I also dont live out in a suburb, but people who do are no different. they just want some peace and quiet and security.

And this. Living in big cities doesn't appeal to everyone.

 

[Seth C]

Motorbike, scooter, public transit, etc.

While I approve of scooters and don't feel like scooter-stigma should prevent anyone from making a smart purchase, I would try to find a model that doesn't look quite so gay and flamboyant. Or at least something that does not have a woman's name on it.

How about the Vino? Approve or disapprove?

 

[mre]

He didn't bother to provide a rational argument, so why should I? What exactly did he prove?



I'm just a stupid Alabamian for not living in thriving, safe downtown Birmingham. I guess we're all stupid unless we live in huge city centers, huh?

:lol Pretty much. I don't think I would move into downtown B'ham if someone gave me a house. Probably try to trade it on Craigslist for a lawn mower to take care of the grass on my mansion's yard.

 

[Innotech]

He didn't bother to provide a rational argument, so why should I? What exactly did he prove?



I'm just a stupid Alabamian for not living in thriving, safe downtown Birmingham. I guess we're all stupid unless we live in huge city centers, huh?

I really dont blame people from not wanting to live in crowded areas. Especially when there is still a ton of uninhabited space all over the place. Especially down here in the south. And since when is a larger house considered a waste of space if you still make efficient usage of it? USA is not europe and its better off that way.

 

[Innotech]

using a scooter/moped is way out of the question here. Thats asking to get run down by a drunk driver.

 

[Nerevar]

And you're railing against a house with one more bedroom and one more bath, when there might be very legitimate uses for them (home office, more than 2 kids, etc.). Your house isn't much different than most houses in most suburbs, you know.

The big difference is the size. Our house sat on a lot that was less than a quarter of an acre (actually less than a fifth, from looking at public records online). Start adding rooms and you start expanding the footprint necessary for the house. Most subdivisions built in the past two decades have houses that sit on an acre of land or more. At that size you see suburban developments that are impossible to service by mass transit because of the issues which arise.