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Shin Megami Tensei Community Thread: Be Your True Demon
- Thread starter cj_iwakura
- Start date
cj_iwakura
Member
I'm trying my damnedest not to use Dark/Bright Might on my last run because of how absurdly broken it can be.
I honestly think he fits the game better than Raidou does. He has this menace around him that Raidou doesn't.
And that music.
The music in this game is pretty much all amazing so far.
At least DMC2 Dante ended up being good for something in the end - the outfit, combined with the personality which took cues from DMC1; ended up being a much more organic fit with Nocturne's world than any other iteration of the character; which became more apparent with the direction later DMC games chose to develop him in. It was a bizarre crossover, but it worked - the character in Nocturne is still recognisably "Dante" even when viewed in context of the larger, modern series.
Well, as 'modern' as a series that hasn't received a new entry in 9 years can be. Unless you count that last pachislot machine...
I know for a fact I have these two in my compendium. I will grind up the cash to buy them. Thanks!
cj_iwakura
Member
It kind of is. Later games have made it way easier/more predictable. You can say some responses to the same demon in Nocturne and get wildly different responses.
I'm one of those weird guys who actually likes demon negotiation whenever it pops up. There's definitely an element of randomness to it that can lead to some blatantly-unfair moments (I gave you EVERYTHING and you just LEFT?!) but over time you start to understand the templates for each demon personality better and can gauge which responses will work fairly intuitively. The unpredictability of some encounters even then just keeps you on your toes and reminds you that you're dealing with capricious, dangerous, and often insane demons.
But yeah, mechanically negotiation can be pretty annoying.
But yeah, mechanically negotiation can be pretty annoying.
cj_iwakura
Member
Raidou 2 is still the best version of it. It's basically impossible to fail with the right demon backup. I'm glad it's in P5, but it's pretty thin.
I got to the minotaur in Naraku (5th stratum I think?), I'm level 12. I get completely destroyed by them, I tried grinding but it was taking forever to level up.
Fill up with Bufu (Centaur has it). Make sure to make the right dialog choices as well, since that can buff your attack (1st one) and lower his hit/evasion (2nd one).
I've been playing IV recently and tbh just slapped it on easy because I couldn't be bothered.
And if Walter is the one helping you, just reset back to your save, he will just screw you over.
You're not alone, I love negotiations too. In fact, when I first made the jump from Persona to SMT that was one of the coolest aspects of the game for me. "Wow, this is so much cooler than shuffle time! I actually get to talk to them!"
Kinda surprised me when I discovered it was such a divisive feature. I find it comparatively much more engaging than, say, throwing pokeballs and hoping the damn critter doesn't break free again, and not a lot of people seem to have a problem with how that one works.
Negotiation is cool when it's not pretty much random like in Nocturne.
Good thing some demons have some good recruiting skill to ignore it in that game.
SJ and P5 have been my favorite uses of it from what I've played.
P5's has really surprised me actually. I thought it was odd that we couldn't just talk at the start of battle, but then I realized how well it balances with the limited SP of a one day Palace run, allowing us to get out of long or difficult encounters at less of a SP cost while still gaining some exp. It's one of many reasons I think P5 has managed to create the best battle system in an SMT game.
I can understand why someone that has only played Nocturne or maybe IV, since it is pretty much like just throwing a Pokeball, except the demons my also take their money or items as well.
Good thing some demons have some good recruiting skill to ignore it in that game.
SJ and P5 have been my favorite uses of it from what I've played.
P5's has really surprised me actually. I thought it was odd that we couldn't just talk at the start of battle, but then I realized how well it balances with the limited SP of a one day Palace run, allowing us to get out of long or difficult encounters at less of a SP cost while still gaining some exp. It's one of many reasons I think P5 has managed to create the best battle system in an SMT game.
You're not alone, I love negotiations too. In fact, when I first made the jump from Persona to SMT that was one of the coolest aspects of the game for me. "Wow, this is so much cooler than shuffle time! I actually get to talk to them!"
Kinda surprised me when I discovered it was such a divisive feature. I find it comparatively much more engaging than, say, throwing pokeballs and hoping the damn critter doesn't break free again, and not a lot of people seem to have a problem with how that one works.
I can understand why someone that has only played Nocturne or maybe IV, since it is pretty much like just throwing a Pokeball, except the demons my also take their money or items as well.
cj_iwakura
Member
But his demons are a bit different!
He'll end it thus.
NeonZ
Member
That's Jonathan.
cj_iwakura
Member
Close enough.
snow in jamaica
Member
The often inscrutable interactions and personalities are fun. Every demon conversation is a skit.
cj_iwakura
Member
Not really. You mostly fight them in order, but a few can be fought at any time.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
*motorcycle noises*
I fused Take-Minakata (or just Minakata as they call him in Nocturne) for Thor, tried once and died because I didn't keep Demi-Fiend healed enough. I fucked up there, but it was still working much better than before and I would have easily beat him had I not been greedy.
Going back to Nocturne I forget how much some of the translations have evolved over the years.
Fomor --> Fomorian
Minakata --> Take-Minakata
Those are just a few examples. Honestly Nocturne's localization is pretty good actually, but you can definitely tell it was from the early days of Atlus USA's SMT localizations. Granted it was the first mainline or mainline-ish game, but Atlus USA did a great job with it.
It reminds me of the two translation patches for the first SMT, there's the "Yuuki Gaki" one and the "Fallen Preta" one.
Going back to Nocturne I forget how much some of the translations have evolved over the years.
Fomor --> Fomorian
Minakata --> Take-Minakata
Those are just a few examples. Honestly Nocturne's localization is pretty good actually, but you can definitely tell it was from the early days of Atlus USA's SMT localizations. Granted it was the first mainline or mainline-ish game, but Atlus USA did a great job with it.
It reminds me of the two translation patches for the first SMT, there's the "Yuuki Gaki" one and the "Fallen Preta" one.
So, how long would you guys say is Raidou 2? Howlongtobeat says around 30 hours, but the first took me more than 50 so I'm a bit skeptical.
Also how big is the game compared to the first? Is the asset recycling really as bad as people say? I loved the first game but I'd say it was way too long for how simple the combat and how small the world were.
I mean I'll still play it eventually, but I just want to know how high I should put it on my list of priorities.
Also how big is the game compared to the first? Is the asset recycling really as bad as people say? I loved the first game but I'd say it was way too long for how simple the combat and how small the world were.
I mean I'll still play it eventually, but I just want to know how high I should put it on my list of priorities.
Wait, 50 or more?
... Yeah, I just checked howlongtobeat and it says 27 hours for Raidou 1, I guess I either got too caught up with side quests and fusions or let the game idle too many times lmao. Pretty weird since DDS took me 30 something and was by far the shortest for me haha.
eyeball_kid
Member
Yeah, definitely agree with that. Persona 5 really neutered the interactions. I get why they did that, and I'm glad they're in the game, but it's definitely My First Demon Negotiation.
I'm playing SMT1 right now and the inability to recruit or use demons that are the opposite alignment of you was an interesting choice. Kind of wish they had kept that limitation, it adds more weight to your choices.
Strange Journey really took that concept to a new level with Demon Co-Op. You can't recruit demons with extremly different alignments, but you can fuse for them. However you're encouraged to use demons with the same alignment as you because of Demon Co-Op.
Sequence Six
Member
I liked SMT4 but probably won't ever replay it because it was kind of easy and I only like one of the endings. What should I know about 4:A before deciding if it's worth my money? I keep hearing really divisive things about it without much detail.
cj_iwakura
Member
Much better balanced, great characters. I loved it.
If you already liked 4 then you'd probably like Apocalypse.
Gameplay is mostly like 4 with some improvements and better difficulty(i.e. not dead easy after the beginning.)
Overworld traversal is improved, which a lot of people had problems with in 4.
It's biggest fault over SMT4 is more of a matter of taste: The tone of the story and characters is much more lighthearted and "Anime" than other SMT games.
If you just played 4 recently, though, I would suggest you at least wait for a bit. A lot of the areas are reused from 4 except for a few new dungeons.
It only has two major endings, both with the same amount of story content, plus two white ending-esque ones where you finish the story halfway through. It's far better balanced and has all difficulty settings available from the get go (play it on War difficulty for a decent challenge).
There's a new demon skill affinity system where demons can still learn all skills, but their affinity to certain elements varies to make them feel different (Jack Frost can learn agi but he'll do less damage/use more SP with it). Smirk was given more importance too and some skills have had their special effects locked behind a smirk requirement, for example mudo and hama now deal damage but get insta kill properties when smirking.
Overall the game feels like an objective improvement over IV in almost every way, but it still has its ugly sides... Namely doubling down in the anime tropes (incest overtones, light harem anime situations, beach episode DLC, you name it), like 90% of the locations and the soundtrack is taken from IV, and they had the awful idea of making compendium prices more expensive in harder digficulyies, so if you want fair prices you'll have to lower the difficulty every time you want use the cathedral of shadows lol.
All in all though, I found the game a blast to play, and actually I enjoyed the story and characters way more than IV's (and I liked IV). The anime is terrible but luckily is far less abundant than I expected.
cj_iwakura
Member
The new tracks are phenomenal, too.
Definitely. What little new music and locations there are, are fantastic. Except for one particularly terrible dungeon I won't even name!
Kinshi-Cho Underground is so good. And man, those boss battle tracks...
Kinshi-Cho Underground is so good. And man, those boss battle tracks...
Apocalypse is great. The gameplay refinements were just what it needed, you can't roll with an Agi Jack Frost anymore. I get the complaints of the story being more "anime", and some of them are definitely warranted, but if you can stomach Persona, this is nothing.
The last dungeon is awful. Many dungeons recycle areas from SMTIV, but there are some great new ones. The recycled ones often have a new twist on them. The second to last dungeon in particular was a blast.
I preferred SMTIV's story, and particularly liked stuff in it like the culture shock of the samurai being introduced to technology. One of my favorite things about the game is the relic descriptions. I highly recommend reading them.
Edit: Echoing the others, music is still top notch in Apocalypse. Both IV and Apocalypse have the best music in the series IMO.
The last dungeon is awful. Many dungeons recycle areas from SMTIV, but there are some great new ones. The recycled ones often have a new twist on them. The second to last dungeon in particular was a blast.
I preferred SMTIV's story, and particularly liked stuff in it like the culture shock of the samurai being introduced to technology. One of my favorite things about the game is the relic descriptions. I highly recommend reading them.
Edit: Echoing the others, music is still top notch in Apocalypse. Both IV and Apocalypse have the best music in the series IMO.
Sequence Six
Member
Thank you for all the replies, this gives me a lot of good info to go off of. The anime-ness of the game does raise a question for me though. One a scale of Persona 1 to Persona 4 how anime-y is it? It's not a dealbreaker but I'd like to know how deep into the pool I'd be jumping.
also some context about the incest overtones would be appreciated because I'd rather not
also some context about the incest overtones would be appreciated because I'd rather not
I'd say the general mood is a kinda light hearted, P1-esque one, it's definitely not P4 levels of anime. The really anime scenes are fairly far in-between too, as terrible as they sound.
The incest thing... Well, basically you're the adopted son of a bar owner, and he has a daughter you were raised with. It's implied that you've known each other since you were both like 3 years old, so you're basically real family, but somehow she has a very obvious crush on you still. So you get some scenes where she gets angry at other girl flirting with you and such, it's pretty silly and unnecessary.
Still, as someone who absolutely hates these things in games, it's still one of my favorite games in the series. Most of the cast is pretty great too despite these tropes, way better than IV's IMO.
The incest thing... Well, basically you're the adopted son of a bar owner, and he has a daughter you were raised with. It's implied that you've known each other since you were both like 3 years old, so you're basically real family, but somehow she has a very obvious crush on you still. So you get some scenes where she gets angry at other girl flirting with you and such, it's pretty silly and unnecessary.
Still, as someone who absolutely hates these things in games, it's still one of my favorite games in the series. Most of the cast is pretty great too despite these tropes, way better than IV's IMO.
> P4 but about on par with P4G
did everyone saying SMT4A is well-balanced play on Hard? My experience on Normal was complete cakewalk from beginning to end (there were so many enemy groupings this time that required hitting just a single weakness type) with a single big spike for the last boss.
Yeah, no way in hell I was playing on Normal after how disappointingly easy IV was, stupid compendium prices or not.
It wasn't quite Strange Journey hard, but it at least ensured mobs were enough of a threat if not approached with care and bosses were legitimately fun for the most part. So pretty decent.
It wasn't quite Strange Journey hard, but it at least ensured mobs were enough of a threat if not approached with care and bosses were legitimately fun for the most part. So pretty decent.
Sequence Six
Member
Okay, that sounds...manageable. I'll keep an eye out for a used copy. Thanks!
snow in jamaica
Member
It's really creepy about the two 14-year-old girls.
Dragon1893
Member
What makes P4 more anime than P3? They seem exactly the same to me in that regard.
cj_iwakura
Member
Doubling down on the hot springs/swimsuit shenanigans, especially P4G.