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[Imp the Dimp]

After playing, finishing and loving Persona 4 (instant top three title) I wanted to dive deeper into the hypnotising ocean that is Shin Megami Tensei.
Started playing Digital Devil Saga and i'm having a blast so far. Just defeated

Spoiler

the leader of the Maribel's

in Citadel.
The story and world are quite intruiging and the combat is capital A-amazing.
I haven't had this much fun fighting through dungeons in a long time. Last one was pretty large. I loved it.

Oh, and the soundtrack is incredible.
Yeah, this was a good purchase.

I wouldn't call the game difficult, not yet anyway, but the amount of skills are a bit overwhelming at first.
I am a bit confused about the stats in this game, though.



I use Serph mostly as a spellcaster so I wanted to pump a lot of points into magic, but it's not entirely clear to me if that increases the power of his spells as well.
AG was really important in P4, but those Hunt skills cost HP and are the easiest way too regain MP, so maybe I should focus on VIT instead?
And if I wan't to use Hunt skills more effectively I should get more ST. Otherwise i'll just be throwing HP away for no reason.

It feels like I should increase all stats. Will a "jack of all trades" cause problems later in the game?

Magic does increase damage. I would advise going for a specialized build although you can basically max everything by the very end as incenses are farmable (I got 99 in everything on my DDS2 char). The difficulty only ramps up in the final dungeon and in the post game. DDS1 is really amazing.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I just spent five hours doing the Pyro Jack Arcade.
Reward was not worth it.

Burn it all.

 

[Capra]

I just spent five hours doing the Pyro Jack Arcade.
Reward was not worth it.

You'll thank yourself for it in the end.

 

[marmoka]

I've been listening to SMT IF soundtrack this morning. It's basically the same of SMT I and SMT II, but most of them are improved versions. They sound pretty cool in general.

Here's the original Boss Battle Theme from SMT I:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQF1G9mBoyY

And the remix in SMT IF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hTfOa39_9o

I got ultrahyped for SMT IF in a moment. I hope the fan translation is done soon, or Atlus releases a remake of the game.

 

[Rizzi]

You'll thank yourself for it in the end.

Will I?

 

[Hylian7]

I'm surprised Daisoujou hasn't been in a mainline game since Nocturne. The only games he has been in since Nocturne are P3, P4, P5, PQ, and IMAGINE.

I thought surely he fit in Twisted Tokyo in Apocalypse at least (because Apocalypse didn't have a dumb method of finding the fiends, still don't know wtf they were thinking with that in SMTIV).

 

[Rizzi]

Should I be fusing at full Kagutsuchi and sacrificing towards it, or is that a waste of good fusion material?

 

[NeonZ]

I still want to know what was up with Apocalypse being advertised with more demons than it had in the final game.

I thought surely he fit in Twisted Tokyo in Apocalypse at least (because Apocalypse didn't have a dumb method of finding the fiends, still don't know wtf they were thinking with that in SMTIV).

Silly throwback to SMTI.

 

[Bumbletron]

Wait, so the fiends haven't always had those asinine requirements?

Also, any chance of an apocalypse sale soon?

 

[Opa-Pa]

Persona Q was scarier than SMTIV.

Boy, playing an entire first person dungeon walking backwards to avoid jump scares sure was FUN.

Wait, so the fiends haven't always had those asinine requirements?

Also, any chance of an apocalypse sale soon?

I could be mistaken, but I think the only games where they're special bosses and aren't found like that are Nocturne and Apocalypse.

A heard they're in Raidou 2 as well though, maybe that too? But yeah that kind of encounters is garbage.

 

[CrimsonFist]

Boy, playing an entire first person dungeon walking backwards to avoid jump scares sure was FUN.



I could be mistaken, but I think the only games where they're special bosses and aren't found like that are Nocturne and Apocalypse.

A heard they're in Raidou 2 as well though, maybe that too? But yeah that kind of encounters is garbage.

In Raidou 2

Spoiler

they are random encounters, but they're fairly common and tied to the luck mechanic. You have to fight them as compulsory bosses too though, and as sidequest bosses iirc. It's just the four riders too.

 

[NeonZ]

Wait, so the fiends haven't always had those asinine requirements?

Also, any chance of an apocalypse sale soon?

SMTI was like SMTIV's, although when you stepped on the Fiend's position it always started a battle. Then you needed to reload the game and walk over there again until getting that 1/256 chance.

SMTII increased the Fiend's spawn rate. None of the mainline games afterwards used that system again until SMTIV which returned to the original spawn rate.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Is the version of SMT2 on iOS appstore legit? it's under a different developer than SMT 1 which was superb.

Oh wait it's jp only fuuuuckkk

 

[Hylian7]

SMTI was like SMTIV's, although when you stepped on the Fiend's position it always started a battle. Then you needed to reload the game and walk over there again until getting that 1/256 chance.

SMTII increased the Fiend's spawn rate. None of the mainline games afterwards used that system again until SMTIV which returned to the original spawn rate.

I never understood why Atlus decided to come back to that system in SMTIV, especially when movement isn't square-based, so it is a lot harder to know the exact location. I get that they want Fiends to be an extra cool thing to see, or a challenge to get to, but why not just make them possible to figure out, but well hidden and a guaranteed reward for exploring? Surely they must know that demon designs go completely unseen in their games because people didn't even know the Fiends were there or how to find them. I know I never even knew Chemtrail (which is such a cool concept for a demon, and fits the idea that demons exist because humans believed they do) existed.

Plus all the Fiend designs are excellent in general. They all have the consistent skeleton design, but represent a human or humanlike figure. I particularly love ones like Hell Biker basically being a Hell's Angels member.

 

[Capra]

Will I?

Getting every Magatama nets you a nice reward that'll help immensely if you decide to tackle the True Demon route.

 

[NeonZ]

I never understood why Atlus decided to come back to that system in SMTIV, especially when movement isn't square-based, so it is a lot harder to know the exact location. I get that they want Fiends to be an extra cool thing to see, or a challenge to get to, but why not just make them possible to figure out, but well hidden and a guaranteed reward for exploring? Surely they must know that demon designs go completely unseen in their games because people didn't even know the Fiends were there or how to find them. I know I never even knew Chemtrail (which is such a cool concept for a demon, and fits the idea that demons exist because humans believed they do) existed.

Plus all the Fiend designs are excellent in general. They all have the consistent skeleton design, but represent a human or humanlike figure. I particularly love ones like Hell Biker basically being a Hell's Angels member.

SMTIV was going hard for SMTI nostalgia in general. They even bring back Stephen as a returning character, rather than giving him a proper introduction to new players. Although now that I'm thinking about this, no Daisoujou is even odder.

 

[snow in jamaica]

I thought P5 could've used Fiends in place of or in addition to

Spoiler

The Reaper

.

Plus all the Fiend designs are excellent in general. They all have the consistent skeleton design, but represent a human or humanlike figure. I particularly love ones like Hell Biker basically being a Hell's Angels member.

With a few exceptions such as Alice, Ghost Q, Sage of Time, and Chemtrail.

Ghost Q is based on Q-Taro, and Devil Survivor 2's compendium entry even says it's afraid of dogs!

 

[Hylian7]

SMTIV was going hard for SMTI nostalgia in general. They even bring back Stephen as a returning character, rather than giving him a proper introduction to new players. Although now that I'm thinking about this, no Daisoujou is even odder.

Yeah no Daisoujou is wtf, he is really iconic purely from Nocturne.

Honestly going for SMT1 nostalgia isn't a good justification for that Fiend system. I mean, if they wanted hard SMT1 nostalgia, why not have moon phases, protagonist death = game over, demons not leveling up, no spells on the protagonist, etc.

It's an odd thing to stick to from SMT1 that was easily one of the worst aspects of the game.

I thought P5 could've used Fiends in place of or in addition to The Reaper.



With a few exceptions such as Alice, Ghost Q, Sage of Time, and Chemtrail.

Ghost Q is based on Q-Taro, and Devil Survivor 2's compendium entry even says it's afraid of dogs!

Chemtrail you can sort of argue has the humanlike figure, same for Alice, despite them not being skeletons. Ghost Q and Billiken are just far out there.

 

[Lynx_7]

I thought P5 could've used Fiends in place of or in addition to The Reaper.

Or they could come up with something more thematically appropriate for each game. The Reaper made total sense for P3 but it's kinda weird how they just carried him over to the other entries instead of coming up with something more relevant to their themes.

 

[snow in jamaica]

Or they could come up with something more thematically appropriate for each game. The Reaper made total sense for P3 but it's kinda weird how they just carried him over to the other entries instead of coming up with something more relevant to their themes.

That too. It's at least a little fitting that

Spoiler

you pretty much have to wait around for it to appear...

 

[NeonZ]

Yeah no Daisoujou is wtf, he is really iconic purely from Nocturne.

Honestly going for SMT1 nostalgia isn't a good justification for that Fiend system. I mean, if they wanted hard SMT1 nostalgia, why not have moon phases, protagonist death = game over, demons not leveling up, no spells on the protagonist, etc.

The Fiends are a minor feature that only people going for 100% would even bother with though. It's very different from basic mechanics like those.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Can you people use spoiler tags for P5 content??

 

[Maxwood]

You could probably get by that way, but I'd give extra attention to Strength and Magic. Magic does raise magic power, as well as magic defense and max MP. Physical and hunt options really open up.

Magic does increase damage. I would advise going for a specialized build although you can basically max everything by the very end as incenses are farmable (I got 99 in everything on my DDS2 char). The difficulty only ramps up in the final dungeon and in the post game. DDS1 is really amazing.

Thanks for the help and clarification.

 

[Hylian7]

The Fiends are a minor feature that only people going for 100% would even bother with though. It's very different from basic mechanics like those.

But that really doesn't justify it. You can look at Apocalypse and see that they did Fiends in a smart way that felt like an extra thing for 100%, but was actually accessible.

SMTIV did a lot of things better than SMTI did, regressing on something as dumb as the astronomical Fiend encounter rates seems really silly to keep, despite improving many negatives from SMT1. Hell even making it be something like "The Fiend has a 1/256 chance to appear anywhere in this dungeon after you beat it." would have been smarter.

 

[Capra]

Just finished Raidou 2.

The story started out promising, but took a nosedive into a pretty standard JRPG plot not too far in. I ended up liking some of the characters though, and the story still had moments matching the original's charm -

Spoiler

Tao Tie showing up and being adorable as hell, and then proceeding to eat space like The Hand was amazing

. The battle system was a lot of fun and in the end, I found myself grinding enemies for loyalty and better fusions with no complaint. I definitely had some issues with the game - the Fiends could've been integrated better, the reuse of certain bosses got really tedious, and the Law/Chaos/Neutral split felt tacked on and unnecessary - but overall I think it was a good game.

But man, I really hope they bring back Raidou at some point. There's potential for a truly great game here that just needs a more complex battle system and a return to the first game's strong sense of narrative identity to really shine.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Can you people use spoiler tags for P5 content??

The reaper is optional, lol. It has no story relevance whatsoever

 

[RecursiveFault]

Everyone buy the Raidou DLC costume in P5 to bring it back.

 

[randomkid]

yeah as much as I love Raidou 2 the huge out of place cliches in the final chapter definitely bring things down for me. It's unfortunate because everything about the build up and execution of the Day of Misfortune stuff is so so good, I remember really enjoying the thematic and mechanical focus on Luck.

I have forgotten so much of Raidou 1's plot since I played it at launch (outside of a general feeling of love), it's my number one priority for a Megaten replay after SMT3.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Just finished Raidou 2.

The story started out promising, but took a nosedive into a pretty standard JRPG plot not too far in. I ended up liking some of the characters though, and the story still had moments matching the original's charm -

Spoiler

Tao Tie showing up and being adorable as hell, and then proceeding to eat space like The Hand was amazing

. The battle system was a lot of fun and in the end, I found myself grinding enemies for loyalty and better fusions with no complaint. I definitely had some issues with the game - the Fiends could've been integrated better, the reuse of certain bosses got really tedious, and the Law/Chaos/Neutral split felt tacked on and unnecessary - but overall I think it was a good game.

But man, I really hope they bring back Raidou at some point. There's potential for a truly great game here that just needs a more complex battle system and a return to the first game's strong sense of narrative identity to really shine.

You pretty much just covered all my gripes with Raidou 2. Mr. YKW and all his nonsense about a 'spark' was a giant tease too.

 

[Hylian7]

Honestly I want Devil Summoner to come back as a sub series and cover different ground. We have had the original, Soul Hackers, and the Raidou games. We have had 90s imaginary future, so now how about 2010's imaginary future? Or hell just have it take place in the modern world, but without the apocalyptic setting like the other Devil Summoner games.

 

[spiritfox]

Honestly I want Devil Summoner to come back as a sub series and cover different ground. We have had the original, Soul Hackers, and the Raidou games. We have had 90s imaginary future, so now how about 2010's imaginary future? Or hell just have it take place in the modern world, but without the apocalyptic setting like the other Devil Summoner games.

How about demons IN SPACE

 

[Opa-Pa]

Honestly it's really hard for me to wish for specific Megaten series to come back because the way the series works now, I'm not sure I want them at all. Like imagine a a new Raidou game... Except with Doi as the main artist and all the light hearted, generally innocent 90s anime vibe replaced by modern anime tropes and lots of sexy anime schoolgirs... Absolutely disgusting.

I guess that's another reason I'm so excited about the HD SMT project, since it's very clearly trying to evoke SMT1/3 vibes, but I wonder if it'll really go that route and this isn't some SMTxFE kind of bait and switch deal... I mean I liked SMT4 and Apocalypse for what they are, but as strictly SMT games they're not really what I look for when I think of the series.

I really want to see if modern Atlus is capable of delivering, but I guess time will tell.

 

[NeonZ]

It's kind of odd to put SMTIV and Apocalypse together in that sense. I don't think SMTIV's atmosphere really was that different from SMTI's in spite of some of its missteps. Apocalypse on the other hand did go in a very different direction.

I think Apocalypse's lighter atmosphere could actually work for a new Devil Summoner 1 or Soul Hackers style game though - basically a mainline SMT but without Tokyo or the Apocalyptic elements.

 

[Opa-Pa]

Oh of course, IV and Apocalypse are very different, I just don't really see neither of them as "worthy" SMT titles, I guess.

IV definitely aimed to be like I but I think it tried a bit too hard. Trying to evoke I's vibe while having a more anime tone and team dynamic, and still using two dimensional law, chaos and neutral characters in this day and age made it an awkward game for me in terms of tone, it felt like it was trying too hard to stick to conventions that didn't really suit it and overall felt like a game with no clear identity... Which shows a lot when you look at the new demon designs, I mean holy hell, who thought that was a good idea? With the new artist plus the guest ones the game looks like an ugly mess of different styles.

Obviously Apocalypse doubled down on some of these issues, but at least it was aiming to be its own thing, so it at least felt genuine.

 

[snow in jamaica]

remember when yamai said NO MOE but then isabeau's defining trait was omg she reads manga so cute

I guess that's another reason I'm so excited about the HD SMT project, since it's very clearly trying to evoke SMT1/3 vibes, but I wonder if it'll really go that route and this isn't some SMTxFE kind of bait and switch deal... I mean I liked SMT4 and Apocalypse for what they are, but as strictly SMT games they're not really what I look for when I think of the series.

I'm looking forward to the environments and possible new demon models and hopefully good new designs, but otherwise I'm expecting a giant headache. Get ready to find out that Jesus is either an evil Foreign Invader or that his wisdom originated in Japan and he worships Masakado.

Can you people use spoiler tags for P5 content??

Sure, though I figured that thing was inconsequential and it's been quoted.

 

[spiritfox]

I wonder if SMTV is going to play off IV or will it be its own standalone story? I guess we won't know until it's really revealed.

 

[Sequence Six]

remember when yamai said NO MOE but then isabeau's defining trait was omg she reads manga so cute

I liked Isabeau because she was trying to pull on the reins of two of her friends and tried to support them both but lost them to the extremes where she refused to follow. I know some people don't like the ping-pongy nature of neutral in 4 but I enjoyed the idea of it not being a dedicated path so much as recognizing the value of both sides without getting swallowed up by either.

 

[Hylian7]

I wonder if SMTV is going to play off IV or will it be its own standalone story? I guess we won't know until it's really revealed.

I think after Apocalypse, they're done with the SMTIV universe. I would seriously be surprised if it was another SMTIV universe game.

I honestly don't get the hate for SMTIV and Apocalypse in general. They're both great games, and I really love the atmosphere of both, especially SMTIV. Apocalypse has SMTIV beat in a gameplay perspective. Yes, a lot of the new demon designs are crap (many of which were fixed in Apocalypse), but it has plenty of redeeming aspects and is a great game in general.

I never finished SMTI or II, but I have played some SMT1. Based on what I have played of SMT1. Have not played if... either.

SMT1 = SMTIV < Apocalypse < Strange Journey < Nocturne

 

[Lynx_7]

For all its missteps I still think SMT IV was a great game. The atmosphere was on point (not quite as good as Nocturne's but I don't think it ever stood a chance on the 3DS's hardware), the story went to some interesting places in its latter half (I specially liked the stuff on the Reverse Hills and the alternate worlds), ost was great, lots of world building/lore through NPCs, some pretty good sidequests, the superior Nozomi design and voice, great DLC bosses (which should've been in the game >_>) etc. Going back to SMT IV after Apocalypse made me appreciate it a lot more in general.

Most of my problems with the game could be easily fixed with a "Maniax edition". Rebalanced difficulty, mechanical improvements from Apocalypse, some minor tweaks here and there, etc.

 

[spiritfox]

The main beef I have with IV is the difficulty curve and how Nozomi was handled. Also the side quest requirement for neutral is annoying.

 

[iceblade997]

SMTIV or SMT in general isn't really scary, just a bit darker in tone than most RPGs. Some of the demons can be a bit creepy though (like Ubu urgh).

4 allows you to save anywhere.

IVA definitely has some unsettling areas and a very creepy scene or two, but nothing as bad as those games.

There's nothing in SMT I'd really consider 'horror' - it might use occult tropes and go for a darker tone, but it never really aims to inspire fear or anything more direct than creating an oppressive atmosphere. There's definitely nothing I can recall in the IV duology which might be an issue.

For general SMT, the only thing I can recall coming close is Kumbhanda in DDS2, and that's more just tension.

Persona Q was scarier than SMTIV.

Thank you all - really really appreciate it . This is good news - for some reason I was quite convinced it's a scary game and was afraid to try it as a result. I'll give it a shot then .

 

[Hylian7]

Some of my favorite things about IV in general are the Samurai's reaction to modern technology, the way people in Tokyo talk, and how you can tell that many places in Mikado were named after Tokyo locations (Shene Duque = Shinjuku, Kiccigorgi = Kicijoji, etc.)

There were cool aspects such as the "mystic script" being Japanese and the implication that the citizens of Mikado spoke English, while everyone in Tokyo spoke Japanese. The reverse stood for Apocalypse, try reading the signs when climbing up Naraku. I've mentioned it multiple times, but read the relic descriptions in SMTIV, it's something that really helps you appreciate the idea of the Samurai in an unfamiliar time and place like Tokyo.

A lot of SMTIV's reveals were subtle, which I thought was incredibly cool. There was the stuff I mentioned above, but another example was the implication (SMTIV spoilers):

Spoiler

That Tayama is a pedophile,

 

[NeonZ]

IV definitely aimed to be like I but I think it tried a bit too hard. Trying to evoke I's vibe while having a more anime tone and team dynamic, and still using two dimensional law, chaos and neutral characters in this day and age made it an awkward game for me in terms of tone, it felt like it was trying too hard to stick to conventions that didn't really suit it and overall felt like a game with no clear identity... Which shows a lot when you look at the new demon designs, I mean holy hell, who thought that was a good idea? With the new artist plus the guest ones the game looks like an ugly mess of different styles.

Obviously Apocalypse doubled down on some of these issues, but at least it was aiming to be its own thing, so it at least felt genuine.

The player also had a party in SMTI, so I don't get why there's this complaint about SMTIV's companions being out of place. I guess none of the main cast had an humorous characteristic like Isabeau's manga interest, but that hardly dominated SMTIV's atmosphere. Isabeau herself was the partner with the smallest presence.

If you're looking for realism, there's some odd contrast between humanity being confined to underground refuges due to demons everywhere but still having bars and entertainment, but that's straight from SMT I too. I agree that the clash of art styles was a mess though. Most of the artists had done designs for dark supernatural series before, but they couldn't just copy & paste their artworks like that with vastly different styles. They should just have used someone like Doi to unify all the designs into a single art style from the start. Although Apocalypse didn't add nearly as many designs as SMTIV, so maybe Doi is just slow.

It could have worked better if it were a 3d game though, since converting those designs into 3d models would eliminate some of the art style clash.

I wonder if SMTV is going to play off IV or will it be its own standalone story? I guess we won't know until it's really revealed.

The teaser showed an old Archangel design, so it should be its own thing.

 

[Rizzi]

All this talk of SMT IV.. I really should buy a 2DS at some point and play Apocalypse. I did the chaos and neutral endings of IV. (Law sucks)

 

[Taruranto]

Does anyone know if the Italian version of Raidou Kuzunoha vs. The Soulless Army is actually in English? Looking at an ebay listing, and I figured I'd double check before I pay $120 for a PS2 game.

It's definitely not in Italian and I'm 99% all Atlus PS2 releases in EU are english only, not even Multi3. I wouldn't pay 120$ for Raidou 1 tho'.

Honestly it's really hard for me to wish for specific Megaten series to come back because the way the series works now, I'm not sure I want them at all. Like imagine a a new Raidou game... Except with Doi as the main artist and all the light hearted, generally innocent 90s anime vibe replaced by modern anime tropes and lots of sexy anime schoolgirs... Absolutely disgusting.

Raidou 2 was already pretty weird and "out of place" in 2009, to be honest. But yeah, I'd imagine a 2017 Raidou would look like... Digimon Cyber Sleuth or something.

 

[CrimsonFist]

Lucifer's Call (Nocturne) I'm pretty sure is multi language.

 

[Hylian7]

The teaser showed an old Archangel design, so it should be its own thing.

I agree it's likely to be it's own thing, but it certainly is interesting they have the old Archangel design and the Apocalypse design for Odin (granted it's much better than the original). I wonder if they are actually picking and choosing which versions of demons most people like better.

Please bring back SMTIV Minotaur!

 

[NeonZ]

I agree it's likely to be it's own thing, but it certainly is interesting they have the old Archangel design and the Apocalypse design for Odin (granted it's much better than the original). I wonder if they are actually picking and choosing which versions of demons most people like better.

That's how it was always done though. Nocturne brought back the Odin from SMTI, after it had been replaced in Soul Hackers, but most "divine" demons, like Angel, Archangel and Powers, were clearly based on the Devil Summoner/Soul Hackers ones (although there are some design differences comparing the artwork to the Nocturne models). They always mixed and matched designs.

SMTIV's new demons never appearing in anything outside a SMTIV direct sequel is the actual exception here, probably due to the new designs and their clash of art styles being rejected.

 

[Capra]

Does anybody think there's a chance that certain demons unique to Apocalypse like Dagda or Adramelech might show up outside the main series? I was glad to see Odin's old design return in P5, but it'd be a shame if certain demons with really good designs like those never appeared in anything that wasn't directly related to IV.

 

[NeonZ]

Like I mentioned above, I think the next gen SMT Odin being the Apocalypse design suggests Doi's new designs from Apocalypse aren't specifically tied to IV.

If I'm right, we might soon get some of them confirmed for the Strange Journey remake.