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Shin Megami Tensei IV |OT| The Dark Souls of Persona
- Thread starter Volcynika
- Start date
I've come to love SMT and EO since Strange Journey came out, so I think I'd really like it now. What sort of differences can I expect in the demon roster? Will the battle system feel a little too familiar having just come off this game?
And is anyone looking to sell their copy?
The battle system won't feel that familiar. It does not use the press turn system, opting instead for a (IMO incredibly inferior) demon co-op system where when you exploit a weakness, every demon with an alignment matching the one who exploited the weakness will team up for a big attack. It's one-sided and the enemies can't do it.
As for the demon roster, Strange Journey's demon roster is huge but overall includes about 100 fewer demons than SMT4.
Huh, I didn't know Strange Journey didn't use Press Turn. I like SMT and EO so I'll pick it up sometime, but that's a bit disappointing.
(Sorry DP, so I put it here instead.)
Strange Journey is a pure dungeon crawler.
The game's first half is more like Etrian Odyssey but things change a bit in the second half where it becomes a lot more interesting.
As for the co-op system, just ignore it. It's more handicapping than helping IMO. And since there are no press turn, having weaknesses doesn't matter that much.
Over all I found the game fantastic.
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Back to SMTIV, here is my current main team:
It's only a matter of time (and luck) before they hit 999 in their main stats.
I'm proud of how well Hanuman turned out being. Putting Desperate Hit while keeping a decent moveset was quite a challenge. It's my biggest achievement in the game.
Strange Journey is a pure dungeon crawler.
The game's first half is more like Etrian Odyssey but things change a bit in the second half where it becomes a lot more interesting.
As for the co-op system, just ignore it. It's more handicapping than helping IMO. And since there are no press turn, having weaknesses doesn't matter that much.
Over all I found the game fantastic.
-------------------------------------------------------
Back to SMTIV, here is my current main team:
It's only a matter of time (and luck) before they hit 999 in their main stats.
I'm proud of how well Hanuman turned out being. Putting Desperate Hit while keeping a decent moveset was quite a challenge. It's my biggest achievement in the game.
At first I was doing it by beating the game multiple times and saving the incenses for these demons.
Now I'm just grinding Red Rider. Since he drops 10 of each incense, it's faster to do it that way.
Finally beat the game today!
Ended up wrecking the last few bosses with a souped-up Demonee-Ho and Shiva, along with my Magic MC and other various demons.
Highlights:
(Neutral Ending Spoilers ahoy!)
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was a major pain in the ass for a semi-optional boss.
I'd be doing pretty good into the fight, then he starts Almighty spamming for no reason.
Ended up having to outlast it with Doping and Salvation.
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was...interesting to say the least. Not totally what I was expecting either.
Crazy dungeon you have to go through for it. I really liked the design, though the warp points aren't really too fun.
-Then finally...
Very WTF.
Took me a few tries to keep him from destroying my party with stupid stuff.
Demonee-Ho was pretty useful with Charged Gun attacks (with both Gun Pleromas), my MC was wrecking with Concentrated attacks.
Last dungeon was alright. Really dug the music in it.
Anyways, I think I'll take a break from the game for now.
Not sure if I wanna go after the Fiends or not...some of them sound pretty rough, though the accessories look nice.
Ended up wrecking the last few bosses with a souped-up Demonee-Ho and Shiva, along with my Magic MC and other various demons.
Highlights:
(Neutral Ending Spoilers ahoy!)
-
Beelzebub
I'd be doing pretty good into the fight, then he starts Almighty spamming for no reason.
Ended up having to outlast it with Doping and Salvation.
-
Merkabah
Crazy dungeon you have to go through for it. I really liked the design, though the warp points aren't really too fun.
-Then finally...
Lucifer...man, he looks messed up in this game! Especially with the weird baby-arm in his 2nd form.
Took me a few tries to keep him from destroying my party with stupid stuff.
Demonee-Ho was pretty useful with Charged Gun attacks (with both Gun Pleromas), my MC was wrecking with Concentrated attacks.
Last dungeon was alright. Really dug the music in it.
Anyways, I think I'll take a break from the game for now.
Not sure if I wanna go after the Fiends or not...some of them sound pretty rough, though the accessories look nice.
If the enemies could do it, that'd be incredibly overpowered unless changes were made to damage tuning. The game is, despite its faults, balanced around the assumption that enemies can't do co-op attacks.
I have mixed feelings about the demon co-op system. Alignment restriction is sort of unfair, but at the same time, it (along with the endings) increases replay value. On the other hand, while demon co-op can be less skill-based than the press turn system, it also avoids the problem of enemies attacking your first within the press turn system, which, due to the fact that enemies in press turn games are damage-tuned to punish you if you don't sweep them, can potentially give you an unfair disadvantage. The turn ordering also hearkens back to SMT 1 and 2, for better or worse, depending on your perspective and mood.
zero shift
Banned
So I just beat the game a second time. This time I went with Order and played in "Master" difficulty setting. I must say this is a game that has to be played at least twice. The amount of content one misses is substantial. The quests really are the meat of the game. I managed to complete everyone I tried except the one in Tennozu where
I felt that the route of Order wasn't as satisfying as Chaos. I feel that Chaos was the "correct" path to take. Especially with the comparative lazy ending it showed. I unlocked the expert difficulty setting but I am not sure if I want to play this game a third time to try to get Neutral only to make a single mistake and not get it.
Something that has been bothering me though is what happened to
I heard you can find out with a certain quest but I couldn't find such a thing.
EDIT - I'm was also impressed by the game's A.I. to a degree. I enjoyed how the bosses would often avoid using magic attacks on the allies that would absorb or repel them. I also appreciated how if enacted Tetrakan or Metrakhan they would respond with a wave of almighty attacks.
What do the blue bars mean?
I have to fight the "red knight" a second time and he turns into Beelzebub.
Something that has been bothering me though is what happened to
Navarre?
EDIT - I'm was also impressed by the game's A.I. to a degree. I enjoyed how the bosses would often avoid using magic attacks on the allies that would absorb or repel them. I also appreciated how if enacted Tetrakan or Metrakhan they would respond with a wave of almighty attacks.
What do the blue bars mean?
You find out what happened to him on the Neutral path
They turn blue when a stat reaches at least 200 (there's a constant sheen to them as well when this happens that isn't as apparent in still images).
NeonZ
Member
Starting right around the time of the Jonathan/Walter split (or right before it), go to the Kiccijouji forest and enter in one of the areas where you rescued people in the beginning, you'll find a casualty who'll give you three challenge quests. You finish one and then go back to get another, it's not all three at once. The third challenge quest is where you finally get to see him again.
Before that quest, through the early game, you can talk with a samurai in Mikado castle who gives some information about him.
First about Navarre going crazy and locking himself in his room, and afterwards about his parents using their influence to allow him to not be a Samurai anymore, something that usually isn't allowed.
Also, did you take the Azazel and
Mastema
Are these numbered quests?
zero shift
Banned
I beat Azazel but not the other guy.
@zero shift: you should absolutely consider doing the Neutral route. It's by far the one that gives the most satisfying answers to the main story.
And don't worry about screwing up. Try to be Neutral when you enter Camp Ichigaya and make a backup save. In case it didn't work, reload that save and make different choices. That part is really short so it's not a big hassle to redo it in case you screw up.
And don't worry about screwing up. Try to be Neutral when you enter Camp Ichigaya and make a backup save. In case it didn't work, reload that save and make different choices. That part is really short so it's not a big hassle to redo it in case you screw up.
zero shift
Banned
One thing that REALLY pissed me off with this game was how the map doesn't label where you are when you scroll over areas. Such as the ability to scroll the bottom and click on something and it saying "The Hills Building- Shibuya". It was also annoying how a lot of the quests did not say where these places were actually located. "Meet me in St. Nicholas Cathedral"...okay where is that Shinjuku? Ikebukuro? Ueno?
I think I will probably return to this game again after a year or two. Will that quest to see what happened to Navarre be available via Neutral route? Also which time when I enter Camp Ichigaya?
I think I will probably return to this game again after a year or two. Will that quest to see what happened to Navarre be available via Neutral route? Also which time when I enter Camp Ichigaya?
The time where I go to those different worlds?
zero shift
Banned
I always thought that the biggest decider of your alignment was
the split pathways in the Ring of Gaea's temple.
It's only a matter of numbers. In that event you get a lot of them which enables you to completely shift the alignment to one side or the other if you like.
As long as you are Neutral when you enter Camp Ichigaya, you have a good chance to get the Neutral ending.
SpaceBridge
Member
Finished the chaos ending. I've done all three endings now. 120 hrs into this game and I need more. What can I do now? The DLC doesn't much appeal to me cuz it's just seems like super brutal boss fights. Was thinking of replaying for neutral ending again, but switching to my XL so I can have a "cinematic" experience.
Play every other SMT. Do you have SJ? Nocturne? Would you mind emulating the SNES classics (or picking up the new official translation of SMT1 for an iOS enabled device)?
This is a very well established series with a ton of replay value. Evaluate your options.
SpaceBridge
Member
Challenge the Fiends.
Well, there's your answer. Get your iPhone (or emulator) ready!
NeonZ
Member
Yes. Read his compendium entry. It seems like his SMT IV appearance was based on a fairy tale where he was a giant (although they enlarged him even more) with metal skin aside from his temple.
TurnipFritters
Member
Yep.
Also he's literally a giant robot powered by the hopes of the people so.
Although that sequence was pretty messed up because it had the atmosphere of SURPRISE FINAL BOSS rather than triumphant ending
Although that sequence was pretty messed up because it had the atmosphere of SURPRISE FINAL BOSS rather than triumphant ending
NeonZ
Member
Sometimes I wonder if the Masakado's Shadow DLC wasn't actually originally a final Neutral boss battle... The whole time traveling story there doesn't even fit in with the backstory the neutral route gives for the ceiling's creation.
May do a new game+ run because while I liked the story a lot I seem to have forgotten many details (not that the story was that clear on all aspects, but I liked that).
Started playing my Chaos file to see all that. Then I'll do Law on my new game+ probably.
Wouldnt be surprised tbh, overworld map navigation can be slightly choppy
I recommend to do the chaos route in NG+ because it has exclusive content which is not available in NG.
What do you mean? Can you explain in greater detail?
NeonZ
Member
Chaos, Neutral and Law all have route exclusive content. There's also New Game + Exclusive content, content that can only be seen in a New Game + ´playthrough. However, Chaos is the only one that has New Game + Route specific content, which means that there are some extra challenge quests that only appear in a Chaos playthrough of New Game +, and aren't there if your first playthrough is through the Chaos Route.
This:
The exclusive content of the NG+ Chaos route is among the best challenge quests in the game. That's why if you've already beaten the game, it's better to do chaos route in NG+.
Im confused, say for instance - i completed my first playthrough on chaos route. If i do a new game plus on chaos again, would i have acess to the exclusive NG+ Chaos content?
And a second question - you are saying that there is only exclusive NG+ content on chaos route, and not law or neutral routes?
Yes you can. As long as you do the chaos route in NG+ you will always have access to that content.
As far as I know, only chaos has an alignment exclusive content which is only available in NG+.
To put it simple, there are 3 types of exclusive content:
- NG+ content, accessible from any alignment such as the challenge quest that unlocks Astaroth.
- Alignment exclusive content. Only available for a specific alignment. The fiend Red Rider for example is exclusive to Neutral.
- Alignment & NG+ exclusive content. Only chaos has such things. IIRC there are 2 quests, one to unlock Ishtar, Asherah and The Harlot and in the other you challenge Demiurge and unlock him. Both are great.
Edit: actually there are a challenge quest which is only available in NG+ and exclusive to Chaos and Neutral. This quest requires to go back to Blasted Tokyo and fight Izanami.
Sigh, god i love this game
Thanks for the info man, you're awesome
EDIT: Is there a guide detailing all of this and the unmarked quests as well?
If there is can you or someone link me?
I couldn't find any reliable source in English (the gamefaqs one contains a lot of mistakes) but this table(Japanese) summarizes well all the special demons that you obtain after beating a quest.
The last row (2) is for NG+ and L/N/C respectively for each alignment.
Most of the demons' names are written in katakana so even if you can't read it, google trans does the job for you.
Edit: a couple of clarifications since the English version uses slightly different names for these demons:
マンセマット -> Mastema
アシェラト -> Asherah
ルキフグス -> Lucifuge
cj_iwakura
Member
Encapsulates SMTIV for me.
Need bigger! Need more! That looks really awesome. The mashup of historical/fantasy and modern times was my favorite aspect of SMT IV.
cj_iwakura
Member
Someone I follow at tumblr posted a bunch of it. I'll share the rest later. I assume it's from the artbook?
What's sad is that imagine how this game could have been with a real budget, not Atlus' B-team resigned to a handheld.
NeonZ
Member
Even considering the 3ds' limitations, they could have done a better job with the presentation.
The 3d areas are all generally very well done, and that's likely where the hardware would hit them the most, but everything else seems to have been done on a very small budget, like the small amount of new demon art, lack of art for most npcs, lack of actual animations for story events (they're mostly just sliding pictures, rather than anime or 3d custcenes).
I really hope after SMTIV we get a mainline SMT with a presentation closer to Persona 3/4's level at least.
That unannounced SMT on the ps3/vita could be something along those lines.
I'm fine with the B-team when they do a better job than the A-team.
The handheld design on the other hand is a real issue which caused some compromises though.
Honestly, when i played this i NEVER got the impression that this was done by their b team. Im just finding this out now. Thats how good this game was. It felt like i was almost playing a ps2 era japanese RPG on a handeheld. The only thing that distinguished it as its own beast are the 2D sprites in scenes, battles, etc. Even then, that was all aesthetic, and it really worked for this SMT. Though, it would be cool to see IV in full 3D, and knowing Atlus, i wouldnt put it past them to port this over in full 3D gfx one day