Pretty great. It's very minimal though - it's more the oppressive atmosphere than anything else that helps tell the story.
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Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne |OT| GO GET THE BUFFS!
- Thread starter Love Deterrence
- Start date
Pretty great. It's very minimal though - it's more the oppressive atmosphere than anything else that helps tell the story.
The background story stuff is good, there just isn't much of it. To get most of the story you have to go through the Amala Labyrinth.
viewtiful_dru
Member
Did the thread have this yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nGWEb5QxGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nGWEb5QxGA
I just made it to Matador and have tried it 3 times and gotten my shit slapped in a few turns all 3 times. The only buffs/debuffs I have are Rakunda, which he just removes every turn.
I'm level 14, am I too low level for this or is it doable with the right demons? I'm not really finding anything useful to fuse for it that has more buff/debuff spells.
I'm level 14, am I too low level for this or is it doable with the right demons? I'm not really finding anything useful to fuse for it that has more buff/debuff spells.
You're pretty low. Try again at 18 or so. With Media for group heals.
Also, try to get something that lowers his agility. Sukunda or Fog Breath. Or maybe something that boosts your defense or agility since he can't remove those.
Basically, buffs and debuffs win fights.
edit: Sometimes just getting an enemy to clear his debuffs is useful since it counts as a lost move.
Also, try to get something that lowers his agility. Sukunda or Fog Breath. Or maybe something that boosts your defense or agility since he can't remove those.
Basically, buffs and debuffs win fights.
edit: Sometimes just getting an enemy to clear his debuffs is useful since it counts as a lost move.
Go talk to the Manikin in the lower area by himself. His door has the barber's pole next to it. That might give you a hint.
Thanks!
14 is fine. Fuse Nozuchi. Get something with Sukukaja.
You can beat Matador at a lower level as long as no one in the party is weak to force, you have a good way to heal, and you have at least Sukukaja.
IIRC I was level 18, had Hifumi equipped, had an Uzume (Media), and Nozuchi.
Hifumi is bought from the junk shop. Uzume is Pixie + Angel and iirc you can get Nozuchi right before you fight Matador in the same area. Sukukaja and Fog Breathe are always helpful.
IIRC I was level 18, had Hifumi equipped, had an Uzume (Media), and Nozuchi.
Hifumi is bought from the junk shop. Uzume is Pixie + Angel and iirc you can get Nozuchi right before you fight Matador in the same area. Sukukaja and Fog Breathe are always helpful.
That worked, I did it at 14 with Nozuchi. I didn't even need Sukukaja. I also stupidly had Shiranui as my Magatama, but I still managed to pull through and win it.
The first time I played, I grinded like hell in ToK for Shiva, the Seraphs etc. & grabbed that incredibly cheap bonus magatama only to feel like the (otherwise fantastic) TDE boss was too easy, plus I hate grinding, so a quick question for the experts:
This time, I'm at ToK in the mid 70s with a good mc build & decentish party, I planned to replace my well-worn (from 37, still has war cry and fog breath lol) Daisoujou with the 80 pixie after mitama fusing her a couple more skills & I downfused a Loa to Lilim so she'd evolve to Lilith with debilitate, focus and some buffs, planning to mitama boost her stats & get her pierce later. Then I remembered: to get pierce, you need meta, and at 95 you might as well do exactly what I did last time.
So, is the TDE final boss viable at 80 when your *only* source of damage is your focus+frei+pierce combo?
This time, I'm at ToK in the mid 70s with a good mc build & decentish party, I planned to replace my well-worn (from 37, still has war cry and fog breath lol) Daisoujou with the 80 pixie after mitama fusing her a couple more skills & I downfused a Loa to Lilim so she'd evolve to Lilith with debilitate, focus and some buffs, planning to mitama boost her stats & get her pierce later. Then I remembered: to get pierce, you need meta, and at 95 you might as well do exactly what I did last time.
So, is the TDE final boss viable at 80 when your *only* source of damage is your focus+frei+pierce combo?
I was in the mid/high-80th, but was on my second playthrough, so with quite good demons (Metatron and Michael (from my first playthrough) and Black Frost (low level, but Ice + Fire absorb is nice)). I destroyed him with just MC attacking, the other just buffing/healing.
So it yeah, the only damage source needed is the MC, but low level demons (other than Black Frost) could possibly die quite often. But it should be possible, if you choose Demons with the needed affinities (ailment immunity is mandatory if I remember right) and skills. But without Masakados on MC, it could be hard.
I think so, but it will be a long tough fight. You better hope he doesn't use his ultimate attack (iirc it was root of evil?) twice in a row... As long as you have enough HP and MP to win a war of attrition and can avoid ailments (iirc curse) you can beat him in the 80's.
You don't really need pierce to beat the boss... It only makes the fight go faster. You could also consider using Dante.
I'm pretty sure I was in the 80s when I first beat the True Ending boss because the MC was the only one doing damage (kept on passing strategically to him) and I remember needing to grind for several hours after that in order to get to level 95 and complete my compendium. I don't grind in any other RPG so that's a testament to how much I loved SMT3.
I have never played a SMT game. That includes those persona games and whatever other spin-offs there are. I've always wanted to try though, especially Nocturne. Is it a good place to start or would you guys recommend another game first?
If not, I'll probably buy this later. Anything I should know before starting?
If not, I'll probably buy this later. Anything I should know before starting?
It's fine to start with it.
Small tipps:
- Buffs/Debuffs are no gimmicks. Use them or die.
- Strength/Weaknesses are no gimmicks. Pay attention to them, use the press turn system to your adventage from the begginning, or learn it the hard way. I'd say strength/weaknesses and skillset are probably more important than your level.
- Even if your main damage source, if levelled correctly, is the MC, most of the time you'll heavily rely on your team. Don't neglect the possibility given by fusions, use it. A lot. Be attentive to your team's strength/weaknesses and skillset.
- When you see a save terminal: save. Same goes for healing springs, use them when you can.
Anyway, you'll probably die regularly. Don't worry, that's normal.
But the game isn't that hard per se, levelling isn't really needed, all you need is to use the press turn system, and adapt your team and strategy accordingly.
Have fun.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
I was "ready" for it. But be warned: that comic at the end of the OP is for no joke: this game is big on long, trap and puzzle-filled dungeons, completely player-driven character building, brutal brick wall bosses, and potential one-shot deaths.
So go right on ahead!
I'm nearing the 70 hour mark and am pretty much about to face the final boss of the optional dungeon before heading to the endgame.
For first-timers, I REALLY wouldn't let the reputation or comments about this game being difficult or punishing cloud judgment or consideration. I've found in the last several weeks of playing(my first run) that Nocturne provides a balanced difficulty that never really feels punishing or frustrating. Not easy, but rarely if ever "difficult" either(maybe the final bosses...I'll see).
- Don't get too attached to your team-mates. You WILL have moments where you some of your demons seemingly have immensely awesome abilities that you hate to give up a majority of during fusion. Generally you want to keep parity in levels between your MC and your team, so once those awesome demons fall behind(and they will!) just focus on 1-2 abilities you must carry over for transfer(Mana Refill for instance)...you will be often be surprised how great the upgraded fusion demons are. Think of your demons like equipment in an RPG, you want to keep them updated with progression since the MC always levels faster than your team. Do not stress letting go of abilities, they will come back around on higher powered demons usually anyway.
- You rarely ever need a 'perfect party' to beat bosses. Sure you can read a faq and grind/fuse a team that will annhilate bosses, but that's no fun. I never did that and was able to handle most all bosses blind on my first attempt. Within the first two rounds you will have a solid idea of what bosses are strong/weak against and how to strategize. Pay attention and swap in demons or use abilities to give yourself extra turns by voiding/nulling their abilities. Debuffs are helpful but mid-late game and most bosses will regularly remove them every turn(helpful still since it 'wastes' one of their turns doing so). Just don't think you can rely specifically on buffs/debuffs as many state. They definitely help(Fog Breath probably the most useful), but over-reliance leads to a circular waste of resources. The ultimate strategy to beating bosses is to limit their # of turns and lengthen your own. (Hence Fog Breath as an example since it causes more misses, thus ending turns)
- Outside of a few specific boss fights though, physical is pretty massive in this game so don't go too nuts stressing over keeping all magic options available. Magic is very important, but so many fights were ended with focused-powered physical damage. If curious, I kept my MC a pure physical STR build and that worked extremely well since your demons can fill out the magic stuff. Often he was the boss killer, while my team was on support and secondary dmg duties.
- Optional dungeon Labyrinth of Amala is pretty cool and gives great insight into the backstory of so much of the game. It's a pretty big dungeon though and adds a large number of hours to the gameclock, but if you want to get more lore, its a required visit before the endgame. Really boosts your team exploring as well...but fully completing it will negate all the choices you make during the game and pit you on a single ending path.
- Just be adventurous and have fun. Do not stress about your demons at all. Min/maxing was never necessary for me and I had so much enjoyment watching my low-level demons evolve and fuse in the early game to the massive destroyers they are now without specific tips or a guide. Even though it is important to keep your team up to date in levels, if you ever see a message stating that 'something is happening to a demon's body' after leveling. It is worth keeping them active until they naturally evolve(they will after learning their final ability). Sometimes that can mean added time keeping them in the active party, but it was almost always worthwhile.
For first-timers, I REALLY wouldn't let the reputation or comments about this game being difficult or punishing cloud judgment or consideration. I've found in the last several weeks of playing(my first run) that Nocturne provides a balanced difficulty that never really feels punishing or frustrating. Not easy, but rarely if ever "difficult" either(maybe the final bosses...I'll see).
- Don't get too attached to your team-mates. You WILL have moments where you some of your demons seemingly have immensely awesome abilities that you hate to give up a majority of during fusion. Generally you want to keep parity in levels between your MC and your team, so once those awesome demons fall behind(and they will!) just focus on 1-2 abilities you must carry over for transfer(Mana Refill for instance)...you will be often be surprised how great the upgraded fusion demons are. Think of your demons like equipment in an RPG, you want to keep them updated with progression since the MC always levels faster than your team. Do not stress letting go of abilities, they will come back around on higher powered demons usually anyway.
- You rarely ever need a 'perfect party' to beat bosses. Sure you can read a faq and grind/fuse a team that will annhilate bosses, but that's no fun. I never did that and was able to handle most all bosses blind on my first attempt. Within the first two rounds you will have a solid idea of what bosses are strong/weak against and how to strategize. Pay attention and swap in demons or use abilities to give yourself extra turns by voiding/nulling their abilities. Debuffs are helpful but mid-late game and most bosses will regularly remove them every turn(helpful still since it 'wastes' one of their turns doing so). Just don't think you can rely specifically on buffs/debuffs as many state. They definitely help(Fog Breath probably the most useful), but over-reliance leads to a circular waste of resources. The ultimate strategy to beating bosses is to limit their # of turns and lengthen your own. (Hence Fog Breath as an example since it causes more misses, thus ending turns)
- Outside of a few specific boss fights though, physical is pretty massive in this game so don't go too nuts stressing over keeping all magic options available. Magic is very important, but so many fights were ended with focused-powered physical damage. If curious, I kept my MC a pure physical STR build and that worked extremely well since your demons can fill out the magic stuff. Often he was the boss killer, while my team was on support and secondary dmg duties.
- Optional dungeon Labyrinth of Amala is pretty cool and gives great insight into the backstory of so much of the game. It's a pretty big dungeon though and adds a large number of hours to the gameclock, but if you want to get more lore, its a required visit before the endgame. Really boosts your team exploring as well...but fully completing it will negate all the choices you make during the game and pit you on a single ending path.
- Just be adventurous and have fun. Do not stress about your demons at all. Min/maxing was never necessary for me and I had so much enjoyment watching my low-level demons evolve and fuse in the early game to the massive destroyers they are now without specific tips or a guide. Even though it is important to keep your team up to date in levels, if you ever see a message stating that 'something is happening to a demon's body' after leveling. It is worth keeping them active until they naturally evolve(they will after learning their final ability). Sometimes that can mean added time keeping them in the active party, but it was almost always worthwhile.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
So, I've been struggling to decide what difficulty to start this on. I try to look up what people recommend and I get a pretty wide range of answers, none of which are particularly helpful. I'm hoping GAF can clear this up for me.
I'm not an SMT vet, but I've beaten SMT4 on the harder of the two starting difficulties, as well as Persona 4 on expert. Is Nocturne's normal mode going to be a breeze for someone like me? I understand that SMT4 had the ability to save anywhere, which I obviously abused the shit out of making it a good deal less stressful, but is Nocturne basically the same thing on Hard just without that exploitable? I want to dispel my belief that people just say Nocturne is harder due to the lack of a save anywhere option...
I feel really spoiled for being used to the option of being able to change difficulties mid-game. I'm also very indecisive and meander a lot. :/
I'm not an SMT vet, but I've beaten SMT4 on the harder of the two starting difficulties, as well as Persona 4 on expert. Is Nocturne's normal mode going to be a breeze for someone like me? I understand that SMT4 had the ability to save anywhere, which I obviously abused the shit out of making it a good deal less stressful, but is Nocturne basically the same thing on Hard just without that exploitable? I want to dispel my belief that people just say Nocturne is harder due to the lack of a save anywhere option...
I feel really spoiled for being used to the option of being able to change difficulties mid-game. I'm also very indecisive and meander a lot. :/
I'd go with Normal. It's a balanced challenge even for a vet.
Hard mostly inflates stuff like probabilities of 'instant death/expel' working against you(more irritating than challenging), tripling the costs of vendor prices, increasing other odd factors like surprise attacks and enemy stats. But really it just seems that you will be forced to rely more on specific demons and equipped magatama to counter these changes. Not really added challenge, but added prepwork.
(At least from my own research since I had that same question before choosing normal, but hopefully someone that has finished Hard will give more insight, especially compared to the Expert modes of the games you finished)
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I don't think I could have asked for a better response. Gives me a perfect idea of what I'm in for. I will go with Nocturne to save myself some grief/brain cells.
Thank you very much, kind sir.
I'm playing hard mode now and it's definitely no walk in the park. The surprise enemy attacks from behind alone continue to slaughter my team. Even after you defeat them you're attacked by more before the round ends. If I could somehow change the difficulty back to normal I would.
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
I just wanted to clarify this bit. You are locked into that ending if you finish the Labyrinth and go for the final conversation at the bottom of it before setting foot in the final dungeon ( the
Tower of Kagutsuchi
Splash Wave
Member
I'm just starting this game for the first time, and I could not be more excited.
Is there anything I should keep in mind as someone new to the game? I recently beat SMT IV, if that tells you anything. Should I be concerned with alignment?
Somewhat related: how do I get PS2 games to look their best on an HDTV?
Edit: holy fuck this music is fantastic
Is there anything I should keep in mind as someone new to the game? I recently beat SMT IV, if that tells you anything. Should I be concerned with alignment?
Somewhat related: how do I get PS2 games to look their best on an HDTV?
Edit: holy fuck this music is fantastic
Alignments such as Law, Neutral, Chaos? That doesn't matter in Nocturne. The game is based upon different factions/reasons fighting to have the world remade to their satisfaction. Each faction will ask you how you view them. How you answer each one is what determines the reason and ultimately the ending you get.
The Labyrinth of Amala is optional, but I recommend doing them anyway because you can get some good stuff out of them. Just be careful about the opening the second (or maybe third?) level. You will trigger the 4 horsemen to appear in certain areas. I think 3 of them were easy enough to avoid if you weren't ready to fight them at the time, but I think there was one that appears in an area that you need to go through so you couldn't really avoid him...
If you intend to do the Labrinth of Amala, I recommend you save the free pixie you get during the game. This is because the fifth level has several doors that require certain stats (iirc 40 str, 40 mag, 40 luck). If you take that Pixie there, she will automatically transform into an uber high pixie with 40 in all stats so she can open most doors (iirc one needs Metatron to open) without the need for you to fuse anything else.
I should point out that it doesn't matter if you fuse the pixie into another demon or not. As long as the pixie/demon is in your party they will transform into the uber pixie.
IIRC you can't dismiss or use the pixie as a sacrifice, but any other type of fusion works.
I haven't played SMT IV, but the common thing I read was that SMT IV starts hard, but gets easy. Nocturne should stay at a consistent challenge through out the game. Honestly, I never really agreed with the very hard reputation Nocturne has. I've only played on normal, but while it is hard the game isn't too bad once you get the hang of the press turn system.
Buffs and Debuffs are good - use them.
Take advantage of the press turn combat - abuse the weaknesses of your opponents. You deal more damage and get a free turn if you hit the weakness. Of course, foes can do the same to you so be careful about your team.
Your main character dies = game over so keep him healthy.
Don't forget to say hi to the Matador...
Also, I see that BrandonF made a good post six posts before you...
Splash Wave
Member
So you're saying that I just shouldn't dismiss the Pixie currently in my party? And that even if I fuse her away, the game will know which demon was made using her? What if that demon is fused again? Thank you for all the incredibly helpful information!
I'm going to try to play through this game mostly guide-less, even if that means I have to struggle a bit. This doesn't mean I won't be asking frequent questions here, though.
SMTIV was all about min/maxing, and I'm wondering if that's the case here. So far it seems every stat is useful aside from Magic and Luck--I know I should invest in the latter, but its lack of immediate effect makes it harder to pick over anything else.
What's up with demon skill transformation, generally? I took the gamble with Shikigami and Pixie, and wasn't entirely pleased with the results. In one instance Zio changed to Mutudi, and Zio then changed to Mazio (I don't really like Ma-skills).
edit: my girlfriend took over the TV, so I'm tempted to buy Strange Journey to fill the void...
it keeps track, yeah. Just jot down the fusions somewhere.
Generally: raise magic or strength (strength is better overall, but magic has an easier time early on), while keeping agi and luck (in order of importance) at a reasonable level. If you're on normal, vit isn't all that important.
can't go wrong with that decision, really.
Even if you fuse Pixie, the demon she fused into will stay at the top of your demon list. You can continue to fuse it and it will continue to stay at the top. Basically, never dismiss or sacrifice the top demon.
As for the skill switches, I don't do it unless it's a worthless demon. Sure, you can occasionally get some great skills but I've had it ruin carefully created demons far too many times. Later Megaten games let you know which skill the demon is trying to change which is a lot more interesting.
As for the skill switches, I don't do it unless it's a worthless demon. Sure, you can occasionally get some great skills but I've had it ruin carefully created demons far too many times. Later Megaten games let you know which skill the demon is trying to change which is a lot more interesting.
Splash Wave
Member
Thanks, guys.
Side note: I now totally understand why so many on GAF thought SMTIV was a disappointment, at least when compared to Nocturne. This is so much more polished.
The battle music bugs the shit out of me, however. The sound quality is jarringly atrocious when compared to the rest of the game's audio.
You have to finish the fifth Kalpa before entering the last ending to get the TDE.
Splash Wave
Member
Christ, Pulinpa can be a fucking nightmare early on.
Splash Wave
Member
Is it weird that I haven't felt compelled to fuse anything yet? I just got to Ginza, and I just doesn't seem necessary.
Edit: and if anyone could give me a quick primer in gems and sacrificial fusions, that'd be great.
Edit: and if anyone could give me a quick primer in gems and sacrificial fusions, that'd be great.
Gems are pretty much a separate currency that you amass throughout the game.
Sacrificial fusions are basically like 3-way fusions. At some point you can use Deathstones to fuse specific monsters at different Kagatsuchi phases, though.
I know someone who didn't fuse a single time, but he got lucky and only had demons that evolved.
But fusing certainly makes things more manageable.
I never really dwelled in gems. It boosts you demon, but my two runs are too far back that I remember how exactly it works. (Edit: you can buy Mitama's, who boosts stats, with gems if I remember correctly).
Sacrifical fusion is quite simple: you "sacrifice" a demon. It doesn't change the result of the fusion, but gives the fusion result bonus stats (depending on the sacrifices experience), and its skills can be inherited like those of the original fusion.
Splash Wave
Member
Thanks!
And should I only be changing Magatama once I've fully finished with the one I'm currently using? I see options for others that cater to specific elements, but should only stick with physical if that's how I'm building my character, right?
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
No. Skills on Magatamas can only be learned if you've passed a certain level. You can tell when one will teach you something if the Magatama in the selection screen dances like a wild thing. You're better off earning a skill whenever you can (though not necessarily taking the skill) because that unlocks more options for you. Even with a phys build, there are non-phys skills that can be useful, like Null [Element], or any number of buffs and debuffs. If you only wear one Magatama until it's finished, you'll go many levels with no new skill options, when you could have been broadening your skill inventory.
Splash Wave
Member
Oh, shit. Thanks for telling me!
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
No worries. To elaborate further, some skills are found in places you wouldn't expect, too. For example, buffs and debuffs are kind of scattered around, and I think Divine Shot (single-target phys skill with a high crit rate) is actually found on a Hama-themed Magatama.
So, explore those things!
Edit: Just checked, yeah, Divine Shot isn't even on a Phys Magatama.
Inquisitive_Ghost said the most important stuff.
I'll just add that you actually only have to put the Magatama on near a level gain to get the skills. The rest of the time, you're better of choosing the Magatama for its affinities first, and stat boost second. Like how you'll never want to put a Magatama with weakness against Hama/Mudo for a long time, whatever the stat-boosts/skills are
(hello Gaea)
While we're on skills, little tip: when a demon wants to change a skill on a level gain (change one existing, not learning a new one), only let him if it's a somewhat weak demon. I destroyed quite a few good demons by letting them change a skill into something far worse.
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
What I actually do is wear a less suicidal Magatama until I'm only a battle or two away from leveling, and then I throw the Hama/Mudo ones on. Allows you to learn the skills with far less risk.
Yes, that's exactly what I was advising to do.
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
Ah, I'm sorry! I misunderstood you.
Splash Wave
Member
You guys have been very helpful, thank you. It never would have occurred to me to equip anything other than physical Magatama (or I would have realized it far too late). I feel like I wasted significant progress even just leveling to 20 without realizing this, but oh well.
Most of the early skills aren't that usefull anyway (save for Fog Breath and Focus, which are perma keeper).
Splash Wave
Member
You'd take Fog Breath over War Cry?