SHOCKING NEWS: Tweets About Prophet Muhammad Spark Saudi Death Threats

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A religion is not just the interpretations of its followers or leaders. Especially when there are so many different sects believing different things. There are plenty Christian churches that don't believe that the bible is the living word of God, and don't believe that everything in it is 100% true, or infallible. And also say to discover the truths behind these beliefs for yourself, and not to worry about what your neighbor thinks. The Bible is just another tool. And it was written by groups of men. Not God. This is what the Catholic church teaches, but they used to be considered non-Christian by the descendants of the 19th century Christian apocalyptic movements.

Religions do have a set of standards and principles, but most are internal, not external. They don't say to go out and change the way others think. They say to worry about the plank in your own eye instead of the grain of sand in your neighbors. Politics is what came in and used religion and faith as an excuse to kill, and fuel to motivate people to become killers. And in places like Saudi Arabia where religion is used to police the citizens and to maintain power, tweeting something like that puts that man at odds with the sitting power structure. If you want to attack religiosity in that capacity, then I'm with you.
 
A religion is not just the interpretations of its followers or leaders. Especially when there are so many different sects believing different things. There are plenty Christian churches that don't believe that the bible is the living word of God, and don't believe that everything in it is 100% true, or infallible. And also say to discover the truths behind these beliefs for yourself, and not to worry about what your neighbor thinks. The Bible is just another tool. And it was written by groups of men. Not God. This is what the Catholic church teaches, but they used to be considered non-Christian by the descendants of the 19th century Christian apocalyptic movements.

Religions do have a set of standards and principles, but most are internal, not external. They don't say to go out and change the way others think. They say to worry about the plank in your own eye instead of the grain of sand in your neighbors. Politics is what came in and used religion and faith as an excuse to kill, and fuel to motivate people to become killers. And in places like Saudi Arabia where religion is used to police the citizens and to maintain power, tweeting something like that puts that man at odds with the sitting power structure. If you want to attack religiosity in that capacity, then I'm with you.
Religion is a metaphysical framework that supports any interpretation whatsoever. Anyone can become an arbiter of legitimate doctrine in a particular religion because it's a trivial matter to find unassailable support for the most radical claims by creatively interpreting holy texts. There are no fail-safes in place to prevent whack jobs like the guy in the video from calling for someone's death over text messages and getting other religious people to agree with him on the basis of dogma. In every way that counts, God really is on his side.

This is what happens when you make a virtue of faith: Zealots value unfalsifiable concepts over human life, and people who should know better defend the hideous system that enables them.
 
Religions do have a set of standards and principles, but most are internal, not external. They don't say to go out and change the way others think.

Are you SURE you want to say religious texts (say, the Qur'an) do not encourage converting others?
 
The big problem with discussing the "inherent and unavoidable evil of religion" as many would put it, is that the context is horribly skewed. When people talk about big bad religion in western culture, they really mean one specific flavor of it: the monothestic authoritarian religions that sprang up from similar sources and probably for similar purposes.

Essentially, the religions that evolved to place people under the "guidance" of a special class of priests or clerics who spoke for one omnipotent god entity who orders humans around, where the entire structure of the religion is in some way a carrot on a stick: take my orders for your entire life, and be rewarded with eternal paradise.

It's a great way to keep a tribe together and on the same page.

Most folks only seem to have a vague awareness of anything else that could be called "religion", but don't think about it, or if they're the aggro atheist, presume without much thought it can all be safely lumped into the same thing and dismissed. The "religion poisons everything" line from ol' Hitch is a good example of a irrational statement made with the confidence of SCIENCE WORLD at your back: you cannot make such a universal claim. You cannot know every variation of human thought in one realm is universally "evil" in all contexts.

Ironically, some atheists stars who are big on criticizing the Big Box (or Big Book) religions of the west, like Sam Harris, actually do admit that other metaphysical or spiritual traditions different from the typical western and mid-eastern, are not without interest and even use, like many eastern traditions.

The universal condemnation of religion a lazy shortcut to criticizing and disassembling individual religions that may actually be full of things that we now know are bad for people.

This is a trap that's difficult to avoid though, for understandable reasons: the big book religions are largely out of control in half of the world. They're not longer really about the religion or any type of metaphysical philosophy of life for human beings; they have been used as a method for power and control.
 
Apostacy in Islam

Apostasy in Islam (Arabic: ارتداد, irtidād or ridda‎) is commonly defined in Islam as the rejection in word or deed of one's former religion (apostasy) by a person who was previously a follower of Islam. The Qur'an itself does not prescribe any earthly punishment for apostasy; Islamic scholarship differs on its punishment, ranging from execution – based on an interpretation of certain hadiths – to no punishment at all as long as they "do not work against the Muslim society or nation."[1] The majority of Muslim scholars hold to the traditional view that apostasy is punishable by death or imprisonment until repentance, at least for adult men of sound mind.[2][3] However, a number of contemporary Muslims, including influential Islamic reformers have rejected this, arguing for religious freedom instead.[4][2] According to Islamic law apostasy is identified by a list of actions such as conversion to another religion, denying the existence of God, rejecting the prophets, mocking God or the prophets, idol worship, rejecting the sharia, or permitting behavior that is forbidden by the sharia, such as adultery.[5]

Who would voluntarily join such a religion? "Sign me up... and if I change my mind later, kill me!"
 
When a religion tells you that everyone else is wrong and that your bigoted opinions are not only right or justified, but are God-given, how can that be anything other than damaging? Neither the bible nor the Quran are remotely moderate or reasonable in their teachings; it is human decency that has added that facet of modern religion. Religion is by its very nature aggressive and overzealous.

As long as the bible is hailed as some sort of tome of wisdom, there will always be people who will take it literally and go of murdering / raping in the name of God. I say it's best to get rid of it completely (puts me at odds with Dawkins)

People will end up murdering/raping people in the name of something anyway. Religion isn't the problem, people are. Religion only becomes problematic in this specific regard when it is in a position of power, which is why all the non secular Islamic countries are so fucked up
 
Apostacy in Islam



Who would voluntarily join such a religion? "Sign me up... and if I change my mind later, kill me!"
I once got in a heated discussion with an Islamic Studies professor at my uni. It was after a lecture about how to convince naysayers that apostasy is still preserving human rights and freedom of speech. Shit was infuriating as fuck! So I couldn't help but ask him a series of questions...

Me: If someone who was born a Muslim decided to leave the religion, would he be allowed to do so?

Prof: No, and he'll be given three consecutive chances to repent, because sometimes the devil can fool someone into having deviant thoughts. If he still refuses to repent then he'll be executed.

Me: How is he considered an apostate if he was born into Islam and didn't choose the religion he's in?

Prof: Anyone who has reached adulthood after being taught the islamic teachings wouldn't leave the religion. Doing so defies logic, and that person is just being foolish and stubborn, refusing to acknowledge clear and easily understandable evidence.

Me: And what would the age range for adulthood be?

Prof: Perhaps between the ages 17 and 19, but generally it depends on the individual.

Me: But isn't that unfair? Most people form critical life choices -such as the religion they plan to follow- around or even well above that age.

Prof: That's what I'm telling you. People who reach adulthood can understand the logic behind the islamic teachings better than those who are younger. Therefore, they'll have no problem remaining muslim. Of course there are exceptions who choose to live in delusion, which would only lead them to hell in the hereafter. That's why the punishment for apostasy is most extreme, to save some people from their flawed minds. Surely anyone who considers apostasy will think twice before doing so.

Me: So you'd rather an atheist hide amongst the community than declare that publicly? Wouldn't it be better to know who those individuals are than oppressing them into spreading their thoughts secretly?

Prof: You forgot a bigger danger than that, some people are gullible and would sympathize and then join those atheist individuals just by knowing a group like that exists. Besides, Prophet Mohammad said to kill apostates, surely Allah and his prophet know best.

Me: What if one chooses to leave the religion before the age of 17?

Prof: He'll be disciplined leniently for a while until he repents.

Me: Then at what age is a person born into Islam allowed to choose his religion?

Prof: If you are born a muslim, you are not allowed to leave because throughout your childhood and teenage years you've been given enough evidence to make sure you become a responsible muslim. And you may not understand this but not allowing muslims to leave the religion is to the muslim individual and the muslim community's benefit. Anyone born into any other religion is not of our concern and can go about switching religions until they, if Allah wanted it, find the right path to islam.

Me:
What if those other religions have a punishment for apostasy? Wouldn't that block their way to the right path?

Prof: If Allah wanted someone to convert, they'll convert regardless of the other religion's teachings.

Me: Then why during the islamic da'wah (recruiting of new muslims) do you not state the punishment for apostasy?

Prof: You only need to convince non-muslims that islam is the true religion. They must, by their own will, believe that the Quran is the true word of God. If they then choose to convert to islam, they must abide regardless of how absurd they find some teachings to be.

Me: So it doesn't matter whether they knew the punishment before joining the religion? They'll be executed if they leave, is that correct.

Prof: Yes.

At this point I was finding it hard to not yell "BULLSHIT!" at his face, but I knew well the consequences of going berserk regarding such subject matter.

He then wondered why I'm being persistent, and my classmates started to give me funny looks, so I decided to leave it at that.
 
dawah/missionary work (similar to christianity), constant attempts to implement sharia law in non-islamic countries, and systematic violence against non-muslims

Is there any actual proof of muslims trying to implement sharia in non islamic countries? i'm not talking about a crazy fringe/minority demanding it, i mean an actual concerted effort by the majority of muslims in a non muslim country to change the law.
 
Is there any actual proof of muslims trying to implement sharia in non islamic countries? i'm not talking about a crazy fringe/minority demanding it, i mean an actual concerted effort by the majority of muslims in a non muslim country to change the law.

Happens a lot, especially in parts of Africa. Look at Nigeria right now for example. 50-50 population of Muslims and Christians, with the Muslims residing mainly in the North. A conservative Islamic government introduced Sharia legislation in about 10 states throughout the country during the last 10 years. There is a lot of sectarian tension between Christians and Muslims and terrorism from Islamist militants has been increasing in recent years. So its a two pronged attack, through a fundamentalist government and through terrorism.

A core tenant of the Abrahamic religions especially Islam is to spread, control, subjugate and enforce itself on other populations. Christianity has well documented history with this btw, before you bring it up.
 
Did the gov introduce sharia in predominantly christian areas ir did they implement it in areas they were/are in power? Are christians in Nigeriabeing forced to live under sharia?
 
I once got in a heated discussion with an Islamic Studies professor at my uni. It was after a lecture about how to convince naysayers that apostasy is still preserving human rights and freedom of speech. Shit was infuriating as fuck! So I couldn't help but ask him a series of questions...

...

He then wondered why I'm being persistent, and my classmates started to give me funny looks, so I decided to leave it at that.

Bravo, I'm glad you didn't get in trouble...
 
Did the gov introduce sharia in predominantly christian areas ir did they implement it in areas they were/are in power? Are christians in Nigeriabeing forced to live under sharia?

A quick google shows it is only in areas that are predominantly Islamic, I don't know if it applies to all people in those regions.
 
This has made me pretty upset since I've found out about it..
I don't wanna go back to that shitty country with its sheep of a people that's easily herded by the hateful, bloodthirsty imams =(

Would anyone give me a citizenship or something? US, UK, or anywhere that's not gonna butcher us..
 
His lawyers got a court order to stop the authorities from deporting him from Malaysia..

From reading their twitter accounts, the authorities have been playing around with them giving them conflicting info which is hindering them from serving the court order

It's not yet clear if he had been deported yet..
 
According to @FadiahNadwa, Hamza was deported about one hour ago. :/

EDIT: This really needs a thread title change. I PMed Stump a few days ago but got no response. Who has access to the Stump-signal?
 
According to @FadiahNadwa, Hamza was deported about one hour ago. :/

EDIT: This really needs a thread title change. I PMed Stump a few days ago but got no response. Who has access to the Stump-signal?
If you have Twitter you could send him a message that way. @Stumpokapow.
 
Not sure if it's related to these events but twitter user @TheSaudiAtheist's account is now down. I talked to him before shit went down and he told me he might stop tweeting altogether but never mentioned he'd close down his account. I'm not sure I like this.
 
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Oh. And...

Religion of peace.

Also:



What sort of religion needs a religious police? What does that say about your understanding of faith and conviction when you jail people for not wanting any of it? I mean, where is the value in being counted as a member of a religious group if your affiliation with that group is not 100% voluntary? Or is it just so that Muslims can claim their religion as the fastest growing religion in the world, which is something you hear so often nowadays, like it's some call to authority?

meltdowns are always delicious, even on the OT side :D

chill out bro... Stupid reactions such as this are one of the reasons the Muslims feel being threatened under unjust and aggressive pressure

You are practically 'screaming' "I am afraid of you, your believes are frightening so much that I feel insecure"; and they will naturally come to think what would you do to ease your fears?
 
So is the guy going to be alright? I am still trying to understand why he may be executed by his fellow countrymen.
If he was under threat of being killed in his country couldn't he be granted asylum? I feel bad for the guy.
 
So is the guy going to be alright? I am still trying to understand why he may be executed by his fellow countrymen.
If he was under threat of being killed in his country couldn't he be granted asylum? I feel bad for the guy.

Saudi's unfortunately got reach in this world. I don't think any other country would dare butt in with our personal affairs. That's what scares me the most.
 
Come on Malaysia...

I would be skeptical if Malaysia would intervene. While minorities will likely and appear to have stood up for the guy, the fact remains that money carries a lot of weight in Malaysian politics. The Arab nations, notably the Saudi's, have bought up a lot of real estate in recent years and all that influx of wealth is bound to have a strong lobbying voice with the government.

That the guy is Muslim and therefore will likely be subject to Malaysia's Islamic courts for review and not the secular courts, will also doubly screw him.
 
Considering 12 of the 9/11 hijackers were sunni
Saudis I think it's just retarded that the Us is siding with Saudi over Iran. Wahhabi Sunni Islam is where al qaida manifested
From and so much for America supporting democracy in the middle east.
 
Considering 12 of the 9/11 hijackers were sunni
Saudis I think it's just retarded that the Us is siding with Saudi over Iran. Wahhabi Sunni Islam is where al qaida manifested
From and so much for America supporting democracy in the middle east.
They got plenty of oil, and don't want to export their revolution, or eradicate Israel

Those are certainly more important than democracy or preventing some terrorist acts
 
I once got in a heated discussion with an Islamic Studies professor at my uni. It was after a lecture about how to convince naysayers that apostasy is still preserving human rights and freedom of speech. Shit was infuriating as fuck! So I couldn't help but ask him a series of questions..

...

At this point I was finding it hard to not yell "BULLSHIT!" at his face, but I knew well the consequences of going berserk regarding such subject matter.

He then wondered why I'm being persistent, and my classmates started to give me funny looks, so I decided to leave it at that.

This is epic!

Can I share this. I really love it. I want as many people as possible to read it.

Religion of Peace? More like Religion of I'm gonna kill you if I don't like what you say.

I know how it feels. I was once almost accused of being an infidel for suggesting that non-muslims shouldn't be hated. For suggesting that it is OK to have non-muslim friends and treat them with respect and dignity as you would treat a friend.

AgentWhiskers said:
Are you originally from Saudi?

Define originally. Where I'm from is a land that has been invaded by the Saudi thugs 70 or so years ago and still suffer under Saudi occupation. I'm originally from a small town on the outskirts of Medina. My great grandfather's generation proudly fought against the Saudi criminals, unfortunately we lost :(



Considering 12 of the 9/11 hijackers were sunni
Saudis I think it's just retarded that the Us is siding with Saudi over Iran. Wahhabi Sunni Islam is where al qaida manifested
From and so much for America supporting democracy in the middle east.

As an American citizen I too believed the lie about the US caring about democracy. The US was never motivated by spreading democracy, ever!

Read this book my friend: Perilous Power: The Middle East & U.S. Foreign Policy: Dialogues on Terror, Democracy, War, and Justice


I wish other countries put more pressure on Saudi Arabia to make them end their blatant disregard for basic human rights.

As long as the Saudis got the US in their back pocket it is not gonna happen.
 
I've come out to my family and friends that I'm an Atheist, they're Islamic... none of them have tried to kill me, nor isolate themselves from me... I might get the odd preachy bullshit from them but that's comes with territory if religious indoctrination starts at birth....

My sister has been in common-law a half Israeli, half Russian guy... aside from my Mom & Dad being annoyed at no marriage ceremony issue and their obvious semi-racist(I say semi-racist because they'd rather her be with someone of her ethnicity) issue's, no one has had any issue with my Sis.

I don't see how the actions of backwater, brainwashed human beings and nations can speak for the whole of Islamic religious people, the whole including people I know and love who would never shout death threats because someone made comments about Muhammad....

Maybe my situation is just a unique case....

/shrug
 
I've come out to my family and friends that I'm an Atheist, they're Islamic... none of them have tried to kill me, nor isolate themselves from me... I might get the odd preachy bullshit from them but that's comes with territory if religious indoctrination starts at birth....

My sister has been in common-law a half Israeli, half Russian guy... aside from my Mom & Dad being annoyed at no marriage ceremony issue and their obvious semi-racist(I say semi-racist because they'd rather her be with someone of her ethnicity) issue's, no one has had any issue with my Sis.

I don't see how the actions of backwater, brainwashed human beings and nations can speak for the whole of Islamic religious people, the whole including people I know and love who would never shout death threats because someone made comments about Muhammad....
Maybe my situation is just a unique case....

/shrug
They don't, it's just they are the most visable, so backwater brainwashed human beings think they do. People are just people, wherever you go.
 
I've come out to my family and friends that I'm an Atheist, they're Islamic... none of them have tried to kill me, nor isolate themselves from me... I might get the odd preachy bullshit from them but that's comes with territory if religious indoctrination starts at birth....

My sister has been in common-law a half Israeli, half Russian guy... aside from my Mom & Dad being annoyed at no marriage ceremony issue and their obvious semi-racist(I say semi-racist because they'd rather her be with someone of her ethnicity) issue's, no one has had any issue with my Sis.

I don't see how the actions of backwater, brainwashed human beings and nations can speak for the whole of Islamic religious people, the whole including people I know and love who would never shout death threats because someone made comments about Muhammad....

Maybe my situation is just a unique case....

/shrug
It's good to hear that your family is cool with you. Relatively few religious people are psychos, of course. The concern is that doctrines of major world religions assert and order some absolutely heinous bullshit that can be problematic in civilized society when it's taken seriously by even a small fraction of believers. The recommended punishment for apostasy is a potent example, especially in light of the story that's the subject of this thread.

One of the main ways faith is detrimental to society is that respect for it creates a favorable social climate for regressive ideas and irrational behavior. People enjoy special authority and exclusive protections just for believing, saying, and doing ridiculous things under the umbrella of religion.
 

When you live a relatively normal life with a happy family, that's great for you but it's certainly not news-worthy.
When some guy faces the very real possibility of being killed for stating an opinion on Twitter, that is a big deal and it is news-worthy, even more so when religious authorities and governments are involved.
 
When you live a relatively normal life with a happy family, that's great for you but it's certainly not news-worthy.
When some guy faces the very real possibility of being killed for stating an opinion on Twitter, that is a big deal and it is news-worthy, even more so when religious authorities and governments are involved.
is it? I think like every3 seconds someone is dying out of hunger in Africa alone;

And that certainly has got to do with how fucked up their government is, partially at least;

I mean, we all know SA is a dictatorship using islam as it's backbone, like Iran, etc. of course they would do this. The only thing news worthy is that a new person has got the courage/idiocy of having them coming after his slef
 
is it? I think like every3 seconds someone is dying out of hunger in Africa alone;

And that certainly has got to do with how fucked up their government is, partially at least;

I mean, we all know SA is a dictatorship using islam as it's backbone, like Iran, etc. of course they would do this. The only thing news worthy is that a new person has got the courage/idiocy of having them coming after his slef
A demand by a person of influence for the execution of a man who wrote "offensive" Twitter messages is nothing less than an open attack on the values of free society, handholds that allowed humanity to drag itself out of the gore-streaked filth that has drowned so much of our past. This is a gravely important issue that is not to be trivialized or dismissed by changing the subject to tragic conditions in another part of the world.
 
There's a famous Islamic thinker named Tariq Al-Suwaidan; a very influential personality among the Islamic communities. He believes that blasphemy or stepping out of Islam should not be punished by the death penalty. He argued that this teaching has been implied at the beginning of the new Islamic state when some people decided to join Islam and then step out of it again a short time after to disrupt the small growing state back then. After that, the so called "ruling" of executing anyone who steps out of Islam has appeared. It was a political act rather than a divine ruling.
I find it very interesting. And as a Muslim myself, I believe it's a shame that there are so many conservatives who are unwilling to actually understand why some rulings in Islam have been set.
That's why I strictly believe that this Hamza shouldn't be executed at any costs. I'm half Saudi myself and I believe that his arguments should be opposed by arguments on twitter itself.
 
A demand by a person of influence for the execution of a man who wrote "offensive" Twitter messages is nothing less than an open attack on the values of free society, handholds that allowed humanity to drag itself out of the gore-streaked filth that has drowned so much of our past. This is a gravely important issue that is not to be trivialized or dismissed by changing the subject to tragic conditions in another part of the world.
The point is, SA already don't give shit about 'free society', news at 11
 
Define originally. Where I'm from is a land that has been invaded by the Saudi thugs 70 or so years ago and still suffer under Saudi occupation. I'm originally from a small town on the outskirts of Medina. My great grandfather's generation proudly fought against the Saudi criminals, unfortunately we lost :(

A fellow Madini (close enough), and skeptic too. Cool

BTW the Hijaz fell in the 1920s, so we've been under Saudi rule for almost 90 years.
 
According to @FadiahNadwa, Hamza was deported about one hour ago. :/

EDIT: This really needs a thread title change. I PMed Stump a few days ago but got no response. Who has access to the Stump-signal?

Not sure if it's related to these events but twitter user @TheSaudiAtheist's account is now down. I talked to him before shit went down and he told me he might stop tweeting altogether but never mentioned he'd close down his account. I'm not sure I like this.

It's been confirmed on the news wires :-( .
The beards are sending a message, natural that he'd keep his head down.

While I'm Atheist now, I used to be Islamic... and the religion itself does emphasize peace... just sayin'

It's certainly no worse than the other abrahamic religions, which is why I find it ironic that the most anti-Islam people in the west are the conservative right. Pot calling kettle.

So is the guy going to be alright? I am still trying to understand why he may be executed by his fellow countrymen.
If he was under threat of being killed in his country couldn't he be granted asylum? I feel bad for the guy.

I very much doubt he'll be executed. But his life is ruined.
 
My friends dad supports it. He thinks they should have him executed no matter what he says, and chase him to the ends of the world, because, he's absolutely insulted Islam therefore he needs to be brought to justice. I asked him why he doesn't think Muslims in America deserve to die, and he's like "Different rules. Here I can just sue you for all your worth and get you shunned from the muslim communities". It's a shame his son is absolutely different and thinks this is horrible.
 
0gxih.jpg


"Hello, I destroyed my career by converting. I have nothing to go back to anyway."

Ooh baby, baby it's a wild world. It's hard to get by, with the Koran and a smile.


When I found out Dave Chappelle converted, I always wondered how it would affect his career.
 
My friends dad supports it. He thinks they should have him executed no matter what he says, and chase him to the ends of the world, because, he's absolutely insulted Islam therefore he needs to be brought to justice. I asked him why he doesn't think Muslims in America deserve to die, and he's like "Different rules. Here I can just sue you for all your worth and get you shunned from the muslim communities". It's a shame his son is absolutely different and thinks this is horrible.

did you mean it's a shame his dad is so ignorant whereas his son actually sees sense about this ridiculous situation?
 
A religion is not just the interpretations of its followers or leaders. Especially when there are so many different sects believing different things. There are plenty Christian churches that don't believe that the bible is the living word of God, and don't believe that everything in it is 100% true, or infallible. And also say to discover the truths behind these beliefs for yourself, and not to worry about what your neighbor thinks. The Bible is just another tool. And it was written by groups of men. Not God. This is what the Catholic church teaches, but they used to be considered non-Christian by the descendants of the 19th century Christian apocalyptic movements.

Religions do have a set of standards and principles, but most are internal, not external. They don't say to go out and change the way others think. They say to worry about the plank in your own eye instead of the grain of sand in your neighbors. Politics is what came in and used religion and faith as an excuse to kill, and fuel to motivate people to become killers. And in places like Saudi Arabia where religion is used to police the citizens and to maintain power, tweeting something like that puts that man at odds with the sitting power structure. If you want to attack religiosity in that capacity, then I'm with you.


The bible particularly tells christians to believe in the words written in the book as the living word of God. How else can christians have faith? Where else can they know about God. How else do they know Jesus lived on this earth? We believe the bible was written by men inspired by God.
 
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