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[The Abominable Snowman]

In every major entertainment industry, one of the many things popular artists absolutely fear, whether it be music to television and film to articles, is being overexposed. Having a market saturated with that icon over a large stretch of time begins to get very detrimental to that person's image, until it dwindles to the point of almost nonexistance. Even a mishap late in career, like a bad or just unpopular peice of work, can hurt the rest of your staying power.

Mario has been an icon in gaming for about 20 years. Yet he's still going strong. He isn't nearly at the height of his popularity, but he still has a pretty large circle of fans. However, Nintendo seems to be pressured on releasing about 4 games a year starring Mario. It's also somewhat of a note that as Nintendo began to pump out more Mario games and Mario iterations, sales began to slow. Not halt, but you'll notice that the next game sells maybe 100K less, and the next 50K less, and so forth.

Is Nintendo not at all worried about that? They're kindof in the same situation with Donkey Kong, but not nearly a tenth as bad.

 

[Sein]

This is Nintendo we're talking about. Q.E.D.

 

[lexi]

When Mario games stop being good, I'll start to care about 'overexposure'.

 

[Mrbob]

When Mario games stop being good, I'll start to care about 'overexposure'.

What the hiznell are you talking about.

The problem with Nintendo is the fact that they've milked the hell out of Mario since 1996 and still have not given us a GOOD sequel to Mario 64.

 

[Sho Nuff]

It's like Disney only making movies with Mickey Mouse and Donald!

 

[cvxfreak]

This is Nintendo we're talking about. Q.E.D.

Well said.

 

[Dragmire]

As a fan, it doesn't really matter what face they put on what game. But for the casuals, this is their biggest fault, I think. Animal Crossing, Pikmin and Wario Ware show that they do make original content, but I'd like to see them make their next platforming game without Mario. I'd like to see them try to create games that could be the next Mario or Zelda, but not be Mario or Zelda. I think it does get awkward when they try to apply a million different gameplay approaches to the same gaming universe.

 

[drohne]

mario's already been bleached to anonymity as a character. i no longer have any attachment to him or his world. i'd blame the uniform, glassy-eyed cuteness that's come over the mario characters on overfranchising as well.

putting mario in everything is still probably good for business, though. although i wonder whether a mario platformer can still be an event, given that hardly a month passes without a couple mario games of some description.

 

[Sein]

It's like Disney only making movies with Mickey Mouse and Donald!

Disney is in fact concerned about stagnation of the Mickey character. See the N.Y. Times article "Building a Better Mouse" from April:

Mr. Sendak is hardly alone in mourning the mouse's decline. ''Boring,'' ''embalmed,'' ''neglected,'' ''irrelevant,'' ''deracinated'' and, perhaps most damning, ''over'' are some of the adjectives that cropped up in recent interviews with people in the cartoon, movie and marketing businesses. And strangely for such a well-known figure, Mickey doesn't even have a back story: no clearly defined relations, no hometown, no goals, no weaknesses. According to David Smith, director of the Disney archives, the company maintains no ''biography'' of the character; he is who he is.

 

[Jonnyram]

"Boring,'' ''embalmed,'' ''neglected,'' ''irrelevant,'' ''deracinated'' and, perhaps most damning, ''over'' are some of the adjectives that cropped up

I know I'm being picky, but less than half of those are adjectives.

 

[Sein]

I know I'm being picky, but less than half of those are adjectives.

I see a 3-3 split between inflected verbs and adjectives.

 

[firex]

If Nintendo was afraid of overexposure, they've surely gotten over that fear by now.

 

[mightynine]

According to David Smith, director of the Disney archives, the company maintains no ''biography'' of the character; he is who he is.

And this is a problem?

Anyways, lurching this thread back on topic, when I start to see Mario in books, movies, TV shows, bedsheeets, glasses, and home furniture again, along with the mascot games, then I might start to worry about his overexposure.

Mark my words: If Sony or Microsoft had a character and surrounding cast they could plug into any situation like Mario and his crew gets plugged into these days, they would be doing it and doing it just as bad.

 

[Catchpenny]

They might be better off branding the Mario sports line as Smash Brothers Tennis, Golf, etc. People will recognize them as All-Star type titles, and it doesn't dilute a single franchise. Cut out stuff like Mario Pinball...Nintendo isn't desperate for money, they don't need the extra 30,000 titles sold from branding a pinball game.

Mario RPGs are acceptable.

 

[Sein]

And this is a problem?

Obviously the meat of the quotation is the first sentence. I just included the rest of the paragraph.

Mark my words: If Sony or Microsoft had a character they could plug into any situation like Mario gets plugged into these days, they would be doing it and doing it just as bad.

Of course they would. But Nintendo is in a unique position. Most of its major franchises are ~15 years old, which raises the prospects of burnout, and unlike Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo is utterly dependent on those franchises. If they fall out of public favor, Nintendo would be in the shitcan.

 

[Sho Nuff]

By the way, I hate Mickey. He is a shitty character. He's a do-gooder wussie with no real character flaws to speak of. The Mickey Mouse comics sucked, even the classic 1950's ones by Floyd Gottfredson.

This is, of course, in stark contrast to Donald, who is hot-tempered and easily aggravated -- just read any duck story by Carl Barks.

...Does anyone have any idea about what the hell I'm talking about?

 

[Jonnyram]

...Does anyone have any idea about what the hell I'm talking about?

Yes, Mickey Mouse is boring and has a bad voice. I love Donald, and Goofy is pretty cool too because he makes me feel smart. Needless to say, Pluto can be tarred with the same brush as Mickey, also.

I see a 3-3 split between inflected verbs and adjectives.

"over" is an adverb in this context. There are only 2 adjectives that I can see.

 

[Sein]

"over" is an adverb in this context. There are only 2 adjectives that I can see.

That seems to depend on whom you ask.

http://www.m-w.com/

Main Entry: over
Function: adjective
1 a : UPPER, HIGHER b : OUTER, COVERING c : EXCESSIVE <over imagination>
2 a : not used up : REMAINING <something over to provide for unusual requirements -- J. A. Todd> b : having or showing an excess or surplus
3 : being at an end <the day is over>
4 : fried on both sides <ordered two eggs over>
- over easy : fried on one side then turned and fried lightly on the other side <eggs over easy>

http://www.bartleby.com/61/41/O0174100.html

SYLLABICATION: o·ver
PRONUNCIATION: vr
PREPOSITION: 1. In or at a position above or higher than: a sign over the door; a hawk gliding over the hills. 2a. Above and across from one end or side to the other: a jump over the fence. b. To the other side of; across: strolled over the bridge. c. Across the edge of and down: fell over the cliff. 3. On the other side of: a village over the border. 4a. Upon the surface of: put a coat of varnish over the woodwork. b. On top of or down upon: clubbed him over the head; tripped over the toys. 5a. Through the extent of; all through: walked over the grounds; looked over the report. b. Through the medium of; via: addressed us over the loudspeaker; can't tell you over the phone. 6. So as to cover: put rocks over a cave entrance; threw a shawl over her shoulders. 7. Up to or higher than the level or height of: The water was over my shoulders. 8a. Through the period or duration of: records maintained over two years. b. Until or beyond the end of: stayed over the holidays. 9. More than in degree, quantity, or extent: over ten miles; over a thousand dollars. 10a. In superiority to: won a narrow victory over her rival; a distinct advantage over our competitors. b. In preference to: selected him over all the others. 11. In a position to rule or control: The director presides over the meeting. There is no one over him in the department. 12. So as to have an effect or influence on: the change that came over you. 13. While occupied with or engaged in: a chat over coffee. 14. With reference to; concerning: an argument over methods.
ADVERB: 1. Above the top or surface: climbed the ladder and peered over. 2a. Across to another or opposite side: stopped at the curb, then crossed over. b. Across the edge, brink, or brim: The coffee spilled over. c. Across an intervening space: Throw the ball over. 3a. Across a distance in a particular direction or at a location: lives over in England. b. To another often specified place or position: Move your chair over toward the fire. c. To one's place of residence or business: invited us over for cocktails. 4. Throughout an entire area or region: wandered all over. 5a. To a different opinion or allegiance: win someone over. b. So as to be comprehensible, acceptable, or effective; across: eventually got my point over. 6. To a different person, condition, or title: sign the property over. 7. So as to be completely enclosed or covered: The river froze over. Engineers sealed the tunnel entrance over. 8. Completely through; from beginning to end: Think the problem over. Let's read the memo over. 9a. From an upright position: kicked the bookstand over. b. From an upward position to an inverted or reversed position: turn the paper over. 10. Another time; again: counted his cards over; had to do it over. 11. In repetition: made me write it ten times over. 12. In addition or excess; in surplus: lots of food left over. 13. Beyond or until a specified time: stay a day over. 14. At an end: Summer is over.

 

[ElyrionX]

The problem is that Mario and co. is not going to sell to the mainstream crowd. I'm currently playing Mario Power Tennis and it is a solid tennis game that easily rivals Top Spin as the best tennis game this gen (power shots aside). However, the entire game smacks of teh kiddie right from the start. Goddamn, the opening intro is like something a 6-year old would appreciate. The whole game feels "childish" and there's no doubt as to which audience Nintendo is targeting. I would feel embarrassed playing the game if my friends were around. I'm 21, BTW.

Now, imagine if Nintendo were to use the game engine of Mario Power Tennis and turn it into a realistic game, along the lines of Top Spin. The game would probably appeal more to the mainstream crowd and Nintendo would easily have captured another segment of the market. Let Mario do his shit where he really belongs: in the platform games.

 

[Deg]

mario multiplayer games sell. The hardcore can moan all they want but Mario Parties sell alot for example. SSBM and MKDD are the top selling GC games. It is Nintendo's interest to keep this audience satisfied.

 

[lexi]

I would feel embarrassed playing the game if my friends were around. I'm 21, BTW.

Now, imagine if Nintendo were to use the game engine of Mario Power Tennis and turn it into a realistic game, along the lines of Top Spin. The game would probably appeal more to the mainstream crowd and Nintendo would easily have captured another segment of the market. Let Mario do his shit where he really belongs: in the platform games.

Watch out Matt!

I'm so sick of this 'Nintendo needs to drop teh kiddy' bullshit. If you're embarassed to be playing a good game then you aren't a fucking gamer, you're a poser.

The day Nintendo makes games for this so-called Mainstream is the day I stop buying their products.

 

[Rhindle]

I know I'm being picky, but less than half of those are adjectives.

? They're all adjectives other than "over."

 

[Deg]

The day Nintendo makes games for this so-called Mainstream is the day I stop buying their products.

Yeah but these are mainstream. Name a primarily multiplayer game on a console bigger than mario kart or SSBM?

 

[lexi]

Yeah but these are mainstream. Name a primarily multiplayer game on a console bigger than mario kart or SSBM?

I was referring to the assinine comment regarding Mario Tennis should have been made into a realistic game to appeal to the mainstream. I'm quite aware that games like SSBM and Mario Kart are Nintendo's bread and butter, and I like it like that.

 

[Sein]

Watch out Matt!

I'm so sick of this 'Nintendo needs to drop teh kiddy' bullshit. If you're embarassed to be playing a good game then you aren't a fucking gamer, you're a poser.

The day Nintendo makes games for this so-called Mainstream is the day I stop buying their products.

That's awfully hypocritical of you. If Nintendo changes its image for a mainstream audience but continues to make good games, then by your own logic you're a "poser" if you stop playing. Or are you suggesting that making games for a mainstream audience necessarily means that they won't be good? Because that's dumb.

Hypocritical or dumb -- your choice, I guess.

 

[lexi]

Touche. I must confess I was a little put off by the 'Mario Tennis should have been realistic' comment.

In any case, I think the point remains.

 

[Deg]

I was referring to the assinine comment regarding Mario Tennis should have been made into a realistic game to appeal to the mainstream. I'm quite aware that games like SSBM and Mario Kart are Nintendo's bread and butter, and I like it like that.

But Mario Tennis will be a bigger seller than Top Spin.

 

[paul777]

I am very sceptical of the idea that people buy icons in the video game world. The familiar franchise holds weight, no doubt, but it holds weight because of content. So, if the games are good, I doubt Nintendo has anything to worry about.

 

[ElyrionX]

Watch out Matt!

I'm so sick of this 'Nintendo needs to drop teh kiddy' bullshit. If you're embarassed to be playing a good game then you aren't a fucking gamer, you're a poser.

The day Nintendo makes games for this so-called Mainstream is the day I stop buying their products.

Ok fine, call me a poser who spends an assload of money on three consoles and a powerful PC then.

I knew that Mario Tennis would be teh kiddie. Yet I still bought it. Why? Because I know it offers great gameplay. The point is that such games will not help sell the Cube to the mainstream the way games like Top Spin will.

You won't believe the incredible amount of ridicule I suffered when my friends found out I played Animal Crossing. I mean, the game IS a great game but when it comes to the mainstream, it's also about the image and impressions the game makes on you.

In fact, the "kiddieness" of Mario Power Tennis was, literally, nauseating. The music, the voices, the colours, etc. It's all really overwhelming.

Oh and I believe Sein caught you in your own warped logic well enough.....

 

[IJoel]

Nah... they still have Mario Basketball, Mario Football/Soccer, and Mario Xtreme Peach Volleyball to do.

 

[lexi]

Yeah, I'll admit to that logical fallacy, you got me.

I was just overwhelmed by ignorance in said friends, I suppose it's a cultural thing. That and this is Nintendo Bitch Thread #625321 by my count. It seems you guys have some sort of Patrol Wach on things to complain about.

 

[Deg]

I knew that Mario Tennis would be teh kiddie. Yet I still bought it. Why? Because I know it offers great gameplay. The point is that such games will not help sell the Cube to the mainstream the way games like Top Spin will.

You might want to check the sales figures for Top spin. MS dont even publish the pc game.

I agree with you on the kiddy factor. Mario games are huge.

 

[DDayton]

I don't think the presence of Mario in a game hurts sales in any way.

Furthermore, I find it hard to believe that Mario appearing in a variety of game types results in the Mario gaming series to be diluted in the eyes of the public.

I propose that games are seen on their own merits more often than not, and that the presence of Mario in a title tends to reassure more people that a game is good than it scares away by being "der kiddie". *

* Please note that I am of the firm opinion that the term kiddie has been grossly misapplied by members of the gaming community.

 

[MASB]

By the way, I hate Mickey. He is a shitty character. He's a do-gooder wussie with no real character flaws to speak of. The Mickey Mouse comics sucked, even the classic 1950's ones by Floyd Gottfredson.

This is, of course, in stark contrast to Donald, who is hot-tempered and easily aggravated -- just read any duck story by Carl Barks.

...Does anyone have any idea about what the hell I'm talking about?

I know what you're talking about, but I'd hate for you to say those Mickey comments around certain comics fans. You'd get your ass kicked from across the Pacific and back again. I think the 1930's Mickey was great. He was far from a do-gooder, especially in the earliest days. But Gottfredson was really the only one that knew how to handle the character (though some Europeans starting in the 1990's have done great stuff with him).

As for Donald and Carl Barks, I think the main reason that Donald is so great in those comics is because after a certain point, the character is totally different from his cartoon counterpart. First of all, his voice doesn't encumber him in comics, so he can talk alot more. Also, you can get a big feel for the relationship he has with his nephews and Uncle Scrooge, something that doesn't really show up in the cartoons. And Donald has alot more writers that can make great stories from his character than Mickey ever has (Don Rosa, William Van Horn, Romano Scarpa, Marco Rota, etc., etc.).

 

[explodet]

Man, I need to find some of those old comic books - I think I only read the Barks and Rosa stories, though.

 

[Broshnat]

The difference is that the Mario character doesn't have to be in the games to make them good. They are good on their own merits. Mario Golf and Mario Tennis are two of the best sports games you can buy. I guess it just helps sales that little bit to have Mario's face on the box, but what difference does it make?

Buy the game because it's good, not because of who stars in it....

 

[madara]

Watch out Matt!

I'm so sick of this 'Nintendo needs to drop teh kiddy' bullshit. If you're embarassed to be playing a good game then you aren't a fucking gamer, you're a poser.

The day Nintendo makes games for this so-called Mainstream is the day I stop buying their products.

Agreed. It time to put down halo 2 and GTA for moment and realize lowest common denominator has has reach its peak.

 

[belgurdo]

Stick Mario in a black cloak and give him two hammers, that'll change his fuckin' image good

 

[mightynine]

Buy the game because it's good, not because of who stars in it....

So if Nintendo just released "Power Tennis" with generic characters, it would sell as well?

Someone's going to bring up 1080 now that I've said that, and in all honesty, I'm surprised we haven't seen Mario Snowboarding.

The only thing I wish is that they would put the Mario characters in clothes that fit with the sport when they do these games.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

You won't believe the incredible amount of ridicule I suffered when my friends found out I played Animal Crossing. I mean, the game IS a great game but when it comes to the mainstream, it's also about the image and impressions the game makes on you.

It is not enough that the game is GOOD, but it must also make me feel more like a man.

 

[missAran]

I agree entirely, Nintendo is milking all of its franchises to the last penny... and it appears there's a lot more money in it. I mean, Pokemon, without a doubt, is its most milked franchise -- but sales for a Pokemon MMORPG would be HUGE. I'd like to see the company innovate, but its franchises are so deep and so thick, I don't blame the company for exploiting them.

 

[D'ultimate]

Nintendo does overexpose it's characters, to it's own detriment I believe.

The problem with it is that the games do sell, yes. But to whom? To the rabid, nostaligic fanbase like the ones that encompass GA (and most gaming forums it seems like) and thread like these to defend them, that's who. It doesn't broaden Nintendos appeal. It doesn't sell consoles. It portrays Nintendo as stagnant and stereotypes them as Kiddy.

If Mario wasn't being whored out then the new Mario (128?) game would have meaning. Then perhaps we would see lines of consumers lined up to purchase it like the ones for Halo and GTA. It would sell consoles to people who don't know him, want to get to know him, get that GC because it's the "must have" system right now!

But no! They just continue to sell to the fanbase who eat it up and defend their every move not knowing that they're just being selfish and ignorant. They're not looking at the bigger picture.

If you people really loved Nintendo, you would beg them to stop!

 

[NWO]

Ok fine, call me a poser who spends an assload of money on three consoles and a powerful PC then.

I knew that Mario Tennis would be teh kiddie. Yet I still bought it. Why? Because I know it offers great gameplay. The point is that such games will not help sell the Cube to the mainstream the way games like Top Spin will.

Top Spin sold like shit and was in the bargain bins about a month after it came out. So I don't see how that would help them with the "mainstream". Mario Tennis will sell more than Top Spin so I don't see the logic here. Nintendo should make mainstream games that sell less than their Mario games and that will make them more popular? :lol :lol :lol

You won't believe the incredible amount of ridicule I suffered when my friends found out I played Animal Crossing. I mean, the game IS a great game but when it comes to the mainstream, it's also about the image and impressions the game makes on you.

If your friends ridiculed you that much then they really don't sound like your friends.

As with the my friends think this is cool or that is cool. All my friends are in their twenties and they DO NOT FIND ANY VIDEO GAMES "COOL". Whenever I asked them to play a mainstream game like Halo or Madden they gave me a look like aren't those for kids and why are you still playing them. And I always laugh at GAF when they make it sound like if you play games like Halo, Madden, Tony Hawk, GTA, etc that the rest of the world views you as super elite or something.

Most of the people in this country think video games are for kids and that after you reach the age of 10 that you shouldn't be playing with them. It doesn't matter if the game is rated Mature unlike what GAF seems to think. They will and always will see video games as a waste of time and don't see how somebody could find fun in playing a "game". Yeah busting out Resident Evil 4 instead of Kirby's Air Ride will probably get less people to think that video games are for babies and to laugh at you but its not going to make you immuned to everyone and that's a fact.

So if I were you I'd grow some balls and play whatever the hell game is fun to me and not to my friends or anybody else. Because if you start letting other people decide what games you should be playing then you might as well just let them control every other aspect of your life.

 

[Dragmire]

Nintendo should make mainstream games that sell less than their Mario games and that will make them more popular? :lol :lol :lol

While I agree with your point, I also think such a risk could yield positive results. For example, in the Rare thread, I said that even if Donkey Kong Racing were released, it would likely sell well, but do absolutely nothing for their image. It's basically Diddy Kong Racing Next-Gen. Releasing a potentially lower-seller like a Gran Tourismo clone (though I hate the series) would give them less sales but obviously help their image.

Now if they apply this mindset to more than just Donkey Kong Racing, the more varied content with a wider demographic would eventually put Nintendo in a far greater position with the mainstream. Mind you, I'm not backing this idea, I just think it would work. Granted, it would take effort on Nintendo's part, rather than occasionally throwing a nibble to the mainstream.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Top Spin sold like shit and was in the bargain bins about a month after it came out. So I don't see how that would help them with the "mainstream". Mario Tennis will sell more than Top Spin so I don't see the logic here. Nintendo should make mainstream games that sell less than their Mario games and that will make them more popular? :lol :lol :lol

Average gamer age is 24. 7 or 8 of the 10 top selling games are Teen or Mature. I doubt that most people really think that it's still for kids.

And I do think Nintendo should have made less Mario games, or replace some characters for Mario at least. The games might sell less (Which would be Nintendo's fault entirely) but the Mario prestige would have been kept more than it has.

 

[ElyrionX]

Top Spin sold like shit and was in the bargain bins about a month after it came out. So I don't see how that would help them with the "mainstream". Mario Tennis will sell more than Top Spin so I don't see the logic here. Nintendo should make mainstream games that sell less than their Mario games and that will make them more popular? :lol :lol :lol

Ok, I phrased that one wrongly. What I meant was that repeatedly releasing games featuring franchise characters will get stale sooner or later. The only reason games like Mario Tennis sells is because of the hardcore and the kids. By swapping out the franchise characters, there is definitely a higher possbility of capturing the attention of the average mainstream crowd. It's about capturing another segment of the market. It's about looking at the BIGGER picture and not just focus on profits and nothing else. I believe D'Ultimate already made the point that I was trying to make.

If your friends ridiculed you that much then they really don't sound like your friends.

As with the my friends think this is cool or that is cool. All my friends are in their twenties and they DO NOT FIND ANY VIDEO GAMES "COOL". Whenever I asked them to play a mainstream game like Halo or Madden they gave me a look like aren't those for kids and why are you still playing them. And I always laugh at GAF when they make it sound like if you play games like Halo, Madden, Tony Hawk, GTA, etc that the rest of the world views you as super elite or something.

Most of the people in this country think video games are for kids and that after you reach the age of 10 that you shouldn't be playing with them. It doesn't matter if the game is rated Mature unlike what GAF seems to think. They will and always will see video games as a waste of time and don't see how somebody could find fun in playing a "game". Yeah busting out Resident Evil 4 instead of Kirby's Air Ride will probably get less people to think that video games are for babies and to laugh at you but its not going to make you immuned to everyone and that's a fact.

So if I were you I'd grow some balls and play whatever the hell game is fun to me and not to my friends or anybody else. Because if you start letting other people decide what games you should be playing then you might as well just let them control every other aspect of your life.

First of all, since when did I ever say or imply that as a result of the ridicule I suffered from my friends, that I stopped purchasing such games? Stop assuming things over there. If that's the case, I would never have bought Mario Power Tennis. I brought that up just to make my point that the mainstream crowd is being turned off by Nintendo's games.

Next, if your friends are truly in their 20s and still think that games are for kids, then you need to find some new friends. Talk about immature. Talk about irony.

I'm not from your country so I honestly can't tell whether the statement "Most of the people in this country think video games are for kids" is accurate or not.