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[Team Andromeda]

Seriously, MT Framework is one if the greatest engines ever created

Yep, it was for me the best multi platform and multi purpose engine around at the time

 

[Danjin44]

Where is my next NieR/Drakengard Taro?

 

[MagiusNecros]

If Automata saved the JP Industry maybe make more games like Automata instead of a bunch of Kusoge titles?

 

[Raven117]

I don't know about one specific game, but about that time, it did seem that Japan finally found their footing again.

 

[Shubh_C63]

I knew I would like this game when the Guy robot said "please leave me" and lady was like, Done.
Because exactly how robots are supposed to follow their prime directive.

Also most brilliant controls setup of all times. Literally. more iconic than Turn your head left and right to calibrate ?

 

[FeralEcho]

And it only took a great ass and a good story to achieve that! If only western studios understood that,they wouldn't be canceling projects left and right.

 

[Danjin44]

And it only took a great ass and a good story to achieve that! If only western studios understood that,they wouldn't be canceling projects left and right.

Good character design, music, gameplay and story.....This game did lot of things right.....and the fact compare to other AAA games came out in 2017, the game didn't the biggest budget.

 

[Hudo]

And yet here we are, 8 years later, and we haven't gotten even a blimp about Yoko Taro's next big game. And I honestly don't know whether it's because Square are retarded (which is the most likely reason) or because Yoko Taro is lazy (according to himself).

 

[Killer8]

The seventh gen problem for Japan was a resource allocation problem. Mobile was booming and the DS, PSP and later Wii became the dominant platforms in the latter half of the 2000s. There was a huge shift in how the Japanese consumed games and so naturally the money followed them. These systems were all very underpowered compared to PS360. In the DS' case, they were targeting PS1-tier visuals, while Wii was a GameCube. That made it almost impossible to port HD games directly across and necessitated having teams making totally different versions of games. In many cases Japanese developers just shifted their focus to those platforms entirely for the generation. This also took away valuable experience making HD games, so that by the time the Japanese developers returned to the fold that Western studios had been occupying, they were far behind technologically. Thankfully they have not only caught up but have even exceeded Western studios.

 

[Clear]

That's an excuse. Atlus saw how unique and cool Demon's Souls was and decided to publish it on the west, while Yoshida hated and didn't bother with it.

They published it in the US, the only people in Europe who played it during its initial launch were people like me who imported it.
Also acting like Demon's and Dark Souls are the "same" design-wise, and performed equally well is disingenuous. Dark Souls is way less obtuse and even more Westernized, the more Asian aspects of Demon's (like the Seneschal) are stripped back considerably.

He simply didn't understood or liked the great things of the game.

Pure projection on your part unless you have receipts.

Anyway, Dark Souls success was gigantic, it started a triology that ended up being extremely successful and made From Software one of the most highly rated video game studios. Dark Souls basically was the creation a new genre of games, that even now is extremely popular and has new games inspired by it being announced constantly.

Yes, a series that's gotten consistently Westernized to the extent with Elden Ring they've employed GRR Martin to further disguise its Asian identity!

Also, Dark Souls has more "Japanese flavour" for me than the wacky stuff that comes out of Yoko Taro's mind. As someone that played most of his games at launch... His games are just too unique.

You're not a Japanese developer.

How Automata came to be made in spite of the minimal interest in the franchise overseas, is the "inspiring" part

Harping on about what a global success Souls' games are is exactly missing the point! Their success is what happens when a Japanese dev tries to appeal to worldwide interests and succeeds!

That's a success story, but its not encouraging Japanese creatives to try and tell stories rooted in their culture, without modification to pander to Western sensibilities.

 

[FeralEcho]

Good character design, music, gameplay and story.....This game did lot of things right.....and the fact compare to other AAA games came out in 2017, the game didn't the biggest budget.

I'm just saying Yoko Taro and the devs focused on what makes a game good not what's focus tested by a vocal minority groups the way alot of western devs do it.

 

[Kataploom]

Nah, Nintendo and From Software did, but Persona 5 and Nier Automata, alongside the popularity explosion of anime in the west made a big part of it.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

The man himself, Yoko Taro, replied. Going to add his response to the OP.

I was just sent a message. I'm honored that Automata is being praised, but it was Producer Saito who gave the order to "make it for the Japanese market without worrying about overseas reviews."To be more precise, I remember being told something like, "Yokoo, you can't make games for overseas, so please try your best to make one for Japan at least."

 

[LavitzSlambert]

NieR: Automata was a landmark game for the genre, for its own franchise, and is a work of art. Deserving of all the praise it gets, and proof that games do not need to adhere to the lowest common denominator audience to be successful.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

And yet here we are, 8 years later, and we haven't gotten even a blimp about Yoko Taro's next big game. And I honestly don't know whether it's because Square are retarded (which is the most likely reason) or because Yoko Taro is lazy (according to himself).

I wish Yoko Taro showed the finger to Square and went to Shift Up, where he would have the budget and passion to realize his crazy ideas.

The Square mismanagement of the NIer/Drakengard universe is maddening.

 

[N0S]

The seventh gen problem for Japan was a resource allocation problem. Mobile was booming and the DS, PSP and later Wii became the dominant platforms in the latter half of the 2000s. There was a huge shift in how the Japanese consumed games and so naturally the money followed them. These systems were all very underpowered compared to PS360. In the DS' case, they were targeting PS1-tier visuals, while Wii was a GameCube. That made it almost impossible to port HD games directly across and necessitated having teams making totally different versions of games. In many cases Japanese developers just shifted their focus to those platforms entirely for the generation. This also took away valuable experience making HD games, so that by the time the Japanese developers returned to the fold that Western studios had been occupying, they were far behind technologically. Thankfully they have not only caught up but have even exceeded Western studios.

HD towns are hard breh

 

[Robbit_80]

Surprised they haven't done a PS5 remaster yet. Would buy the black box edition again 100%.

 

[Hudo]

The man himself, Yoko Taro, replied. Going to add his response to the OP.

Saito is also now the producer for the Dragon Quest franchise.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

For some reason I was never into Nier, not a fan of the characters or its enemy design. But glad this type of game is doing well though.

 

[Woopah]

This isn't about games being good but about Japanese developed games selling well in the 360/PS3 era

Unlike most Japanese developers, Capcom bet big on next gen AAA productions for the 360, and it paid off, while Japanse developers went all in for mobile and wii graphics and that cost them dear until they woke up and spent big on AAA productions for the consoles

Capcom on the 360 is exactly what Shuhei said publishers shouldn't do, putting too much focus on making games "for the West".

 

[Fabieter]

Shinji Mikami was once quoted in a interview about the Japanese games industry struggling during PS360 era saying: "All we need is one hit. A big hit, that show us the way forward."

Nier Automata was that hit. It was also a very unexpected success since nobody really believed in it, save from maybe Square Enix and Platinum who decided to bring back the franchise. If anyone remember, the original Nier, which ironically was created during the PS360 era, flopped so hard Yoko Taros studio Cavia went under and he became a freelance game designer. The only reason Nier was resurrected was it's vocal fanbase and the games cult status.

However, I would like to add Resident Evil 7 and the rise of From Software as contributors to the Japanese games industry healing its wounds. Capcom struggled hard with their franchises during this time and RE6 was universally panned by fans and critics. RE7 brought Capcom back to the limelight and kickstarted their now infamous "Capgod" status where they are delivering massive hits after hits.

From Software built a hardcore following with Dark Souls which has now culminated in Elden Ring selling 30 something million copies. From Softwares success is unmatched in the industry considering they were complete nobody's for 30 years and now all of a sudden they are the world's most respected studio with a massive fanbase.

NieR: Automata's Producer Threatened to Leave Square Enix in Order to Get the Game Made

Whatever it takes

www.pushsquare.com

Saito basically forced sqaure enix to do it.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

 

[Team Andromeda]

Capcom on the 360 is exactly what Shuhei said publishers shouldn't do, putting too much focus on making games "for the West".

Not to make games for the biggest gaming market in the world ? LOL

Capcom called it right and stuck with AAA productions, and also made the best multi-platform engine around at the time, and it wasn't like their games changed for the west.
They still felt Capcom

 

[Celine]

Nintendo: *laughs*

During the period Shuhei Yoshida is talking about, Nintendo was trying to survive the Wii U. So yeah, they almost didn't exist at the time.

On WiiU and 3DS Nintendo has sold more than 270 million first-party games.
You simply don't know what you are talking about.

On Wii and NDS, during the period in which it started the whole tirade about how japanese games weren't competitive anymore, Nintendo has sold more than 685 million first-party games.

 

[Celine]

The seventh gen problem for Japan was a resource allocation problem. Mobile was booming and the DS, PSP and later Wii became the dominant platforms in the latter half of the 2000s. There was a huge shift in how the Japanese consumed games and so naturally the money followed them. These systems were all very underpowered compared to PS360. In the DS' case, they were targeting PS1-tier visuals, while Wii was a GameCube. That made it almost impossible to port HD games directly across and necessitated having teams making totally different versions of games. In many cases Japanese developers just shifted their focus to those platforms entirely for the generation. This also took away valuable experience making HD games, so that by the time the Japanese developers returned to the fold that Western studios had been occupying, they were far behind technologically. Thankfully they have not only caught up but have even exceeded Western studios.

A minor correction and an addition:
1) Unlike in the west, japanese third-parties never fully embraced the Wii cause the kind of "low" budgets were absorbed by the NDS and PSP projects so while Wii ended up outselling PS3 in Japan, mostly on the back of first-party games, I wouldn't say it attained a dominant position.
This is easily demonstrable by looking at the stark difference in third-party games sales on Wii between USA and Japan:

2) There are historical reasons that made the transition to more complex games more painful for japanese game publisher behind what were the dominant platforms in Japan at the time.

- the japanese gaming industry was heavily reliant on custom made software development practice (and each time they would start from scratch even if it was a sequel on the same console) due to the cultural heritage tied toh the arcade boards (and their custom hardware) and a widespread "winner takes all mentality" that meant game developers tended to aggregate around one or two winners (typically Nintendo and PlayStation) and develop for a very restricted number of dominant hardware per generation.

As an example of the above here a citation from a key manager in one of the biggest japanese third-party:
Yoshihiro Maruyama (Executive vice president, Square U.S.)

"Square was focusing on PlayStation only whereas EA was a multiplatform game company. They kept publishing on Nintendo as well as Sega as well as PC. So there was a bit of a different approach because they could spread out marketing across different platforms, but you know, we only published for the PlayStation. So there was that kind of discussion between us — why were we just doing it? [Laughs] We told them that the Japanese game market was always a “winner takes all” type of market. It used to be Nintendo. Now it’s PlayStation, so we had no intent to make any games for other consoles like Sega or Nintendo. But the U.S. market was twice as big. So they understood it, but they still wanted us to make games for other consoles. Which Square, you know, firmly refused."

- Due to the "Galápagos syndrome" Japan has many industry in which they excel but software isn't one of them, with the exception of game software which requires a lot of creative input besides software engineering proficency and for which they enjoyed a head start thanks to Space Invaders (arcade boom) and Nintendo (console boom in Japan and reviving of the console industry in North America).



- Japanese game publishers were reliant on the home market which could have very different tastes compared to other big markets like USA or the european main markets (UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain).
Beyond tastes, if one look thoroughly at sales data for a long stretch of time for the japanese market it should notice that the budget for the some of the most popular games in Japan tended/tends to be lower compared the software that is more popular in USA.
[As a generalization] The japanese game publishers were more focused on "cheapness" than western publishers and their mentality of "go big or go home".
To face the challenge of arising costs japanese publishers allied between them so in the '00s we got the formation of Square Enix, Sega Sammy, Bandai Namco, Koei Tecmo, Spike Chunsoft, Takara Tomy and Konami absorbed Hudson Soft.
Even thus japanese game publishers remained risk adverse.

Now it's clear that with these ingredients japanese game publishers were set to struggled mightly in the initial phase of transition to HD games (meaning more complex games) that required higher budgets and higher software proficency, and to lessen the risks it enforced to adhere to a multi-platform strategy with a view that encompasse a worldwide audience instead of looking at the home market and then hoping the game would be received well in the west.

It should be noted that despite always been the biggest console publisher in the World, Nintendo should be treated differently from the rest of japanese game publishers because they function differently (Nintendo is a game publisher with its own platform business) and their leadership always displayed higher than average foresight.

 

[Woopah]

Not to make games for the biggest gaming market in the world ? LOL

Yes. That's what the quote is about. He's saying make a game that Japanese people want to play and you can suceed overseas. Japanese publishers don't need to imitate the West.

Capcom called it right and stuck with AAA productions, and also made the best multi-platform engine around at the time, and it wasn't like their games changed for the west.

They still felt Capcom.

That's true, but AAA and multiplatform has nothing to do with what Shuhei is saying.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Yes. That's what the quote is about. He's saying make a game that Japanese people want to play and you can suceed overseas. Japanese publishers don't need to imitate the West.



That's true, but AAA and multiplatform has nothing to do with what Shuhei is saying.

Dead Rising and Lost Planet were very Japanese, and AAA multiplatform was the way of the future, Capcom nailed it and showed the way for other Japanese developers to follow
I would say Dead Rising felt more Japanese to me than Neir Automata, but that's just me

 

[Woopah]

Dead Rising and Lost Planet were very Japanese, and AAA multiplatform was the way of the future, Capcom nailed it and showed the way for other Japanese developers to follow
I would say Dead Rising felt more Japanese to me than Neir Automata, but that's just me

To be clear I'm not saying you have to agree with Yoshida, just that the argument you're making is very different to the one he is making.

 

[Loomy]

Nintendo: *laughs*


On WiiU and 3DS Nintendo has sold more than 270 million first-party games.
You simply don't know what you are talking about.

On Wii and NDS, during the period in which it started the whole tirade about how japanese games weren't competitive anymore, Nintendo has sold more than 685 million first-party games.

Why are you adding DS/3DS sales in a reply to how the WiiU struggled? My guess is WiiU games accounted for less than half of that 270 million totals.

No one - at least not me - is saying Nintendo didn't make/ship/sell a lot of games during that time. I'm saying a lot of those games outside of their golden geese weren't very good. Or very competitive in terms of bringing new ideas/technology to the table. And this isn't just me. Hideo Kojima and Keiji Inafune made similar comments at the time as well.

The 2010s were rough for Japanese game development. That's not really open to interpretation or debate. They struggled with the transition to 7th gen and got left in the dust by western studios. That is a fact.

 

[LRKD]

Nice to say that, but I don't believe it. I still see way too much western pandering, they all still have to go through Xbox/Playstation/NoA purity tests. Like look at Xenoblade Chronicles X, the NoA censored version is now the default, nobody gets the Japanese version anymore, not even the Japanese.

And then even if somehow it got through development as a "Japanese" game, some retard faggot in California decided to rewrite half the script, and insert among us references.

 

[Durin]

Well Nier Automata also gave birth to DXVK, the tool that was foundational for Valve's Proton compatibility layer for SteamOS to run Windows games...and that tool began because one guy wanting to play Nier Automata on Linux.

Game definitely had an outsized impact. Japan pandering to the west in the PS3/360 era just made these awkward games that's took surface level influences and lacked the flair of Japanese games. Kojima for whatever fault you can say, organically loves western Hollywood stuff, so he cherry-picked from those influences what worked well for this games, and didn't just make a Gears or Last of Us-like.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

The game also revived the NSFW cosplay scene.

Shit was getting dry until thots started wearing 2B costumes with their tits out.

 

[Spooky Scary Skeleton]

Pretty oversimplification of what happened, imo. 2017 was an reemergence for japanese games industry. Games like Resident Evil 7, Breathe of the Mild and Persona 5 all played their role in this.

 

[San Dan Glokta]

Will just leave this here *NSFW Warning*

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

I still remember when the NIER Automata teaser was announced, I was excited for its release...

While some apathetic moron said it was going to be an average game, nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[Celine]

Why are you adding DS/3DS sales in a reply to how the WiiU struggled? My guess is WiiU games accounted for less than half of that 270 million totals.

I've grouped togheter WIIU and 3DS because they belong to the same era and more or less run around the same time period.
Same for WII and NDS that represent the previous era for Nintendo.

No one - at least not me - is saying Nintendo didn't make/ship/sell a lot of games during that time. I'm saying a lot of those games outside of their golden geese weren't very good. Or very competitive in terms of bringing new ideas/technology to the table. And this isn't just me. Hideo Kojima and Keiji Inafune made similar comments at the time as well.

The 2010s were rough for Japanese game development. That's not really open to interpretation or debate. They struggled with the transition to 7th gen and got left in the dust by western studios. That is a fact.

I see that you didn't even bother to read the link you've posted.
In the "Keiji Inafune" link he remarked:
“I want to study how Westerners live, and make games that appeal to them.”
The controversial designer encouraged Japanese developers to take globally-minded development more seriously, arguing that appealing to a Western audience requires more thought than just “turning eyes blue and changing the hair color.”

Guess what? Nintendo was selling tons of games in western markets in those years and still is doing to these days.

In fact the debate back in the day was that japanese publishers' games were losing global appeal compared to the ones from western publishers due to the former being left behind from a 'tech' and 'design' point of view.
However Nintendo games did not lose global appeal, on the contrary they went through an explosion of popularity with Wii/NDS (in Japan and in western markets alike) and a subsequent contraction with WiiU/3DS (due to troubles with the platforms) but still selling tons of games.