Easton Dark
Member
I vomited all over everything.
Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods
- Thread starter Sendou
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I vomited all over everything.
This problem isn't mutually exclusive to this situation. How many games release completely broken or with a myriad of issues these days? Whether the developers support modding or not, often the community comes to the rescue.
As I said before, I find this stance completely arbitrary.
Yuup, 50% margin is straight up super villian scummy. If Beth was offering some kind of QA for the free content development/advertisement they are receiving then maybe. But they aren't.
Bethsoft set the 50%/25% rate and are essentially triple dipping because fuck you.
I'm going to go the way of Durante and Evilore soon and start posting random memes, poems, and michael_jordan_laughing.gif instead of beating my head against the wall.
It's only a matter of time before I crack.
This situation certainly leads them to have even less of an incentive to fix problems. In a lot of cases it would be smarter for the developer to leave things out or not tailor things for PC gamers (like a UI) because now they make money when the community fixes it, but carry none of the risks of development cost, having to do QA or supporting it in the future.
How is that not a problem?
Mavromatis
Member
And the worst part of it the mob is a large part of the target audience.
I've actually checked the Creation Kit when this craze started and I must say that I congratulate anybody that can create a good mod using that.
I still wish they added the Humble Bundle slider for payment and still hope some publisher will do that since this is publisher based.
And I still fear that Valve will cave in and put a barrier of entry as they did on Greenlight to stop the spam.
Muscle Wizard
Banned
Bethesda looked at all their old games still thriving years after release with active communities and thought "how can we make more money from this?"
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Don't you know? It's ARBITRARY!
Which really does nothing to explain why it does not mater, but sorta sounds good.
Do you concede that this issue is not mutually exclusive to games that support mods?
At least in this case, the developers have also released modding tools and allowed modders the chance to fix their mistakes.
Hey man, if Valve can get this store running to pre-spliced up chaos rapture standards, I'm all for it.
Nocturno999
Member
It's interesting how Gabe is going to solve this PR nightmare judging by Reddit's responses.
He is seen as the pope of PC gaming and I can see him canning this project before killing consumer's good will.
He is seen as the pope of PC gaming and I can see him canning this project before killing consumer's good will.
I really, really don't think this is going away.
I think the bigger scam in this story is a company named Bethesda actually being in Rockville.
Compsiox
Banned
He started DRM. He may do it.
"A bit"? For taking 50% to do dick all?
I know it is their game...but they've made their money and are only making more off mods.
Well, he dodged the question (twice) when asked if he would take a stand against mod DRM.
It's not too late to just scrap this initiative, bank the lessons learned, refine it, and do it at a more appropriate time, like the launch of a new game.
Yup, plus no one has even addressed that issue yet regarding broken mods and stolen assets (like that guy pointed out on reddit), and it seems like Valve doesn't have a clue either as Gary Newell couldn't answer.
eot
Banned
Of course they're not going to demand that game developers allow modding outside of Steam Workshop. It's not their place to dictate what devs should do.
I'd say that this specific issue is exclusive to games that support paid mods AND where the developer gets a cut from the sale of said mods.
Similar issues happen in every other game, but not this particular issue.
That's a problem, now they have more of an incentive than ever to just pass issues off to modders to fix.
to be honest I'm still not really sure what the deal is with people demanding a donate button. from what I understand right now, functionally, it's the same thing. There already is a "donate" button. the author of the mod can choose any price, including 0$. Including "Pay what you want" starting at 0$. the only thing that differentiates this is that valve/bethsoft also take a cut for doing their thing. But that's also up to the author. They agreed to it. They don't have to. They can still put it at free/0$ which is exactly how things have always been, only now they have the option to gain something from it if they so choose.
CybernatonEvolution
Member
Skyrim mod DRM is very easy to implement; it already detects .esm files in your game folders regardless of where you download them. If you open up Skyrim via steam library and choose Data, you can see the list of .esm files.
Anyway, I wonder if you can get around that by renaming .esm files. It would be silly if they took it further and made a program that checks your game's files (specifically the mod files) and compare the similarity (similar to college plagiarism programs).
More importantly, I noticed that a lot of modders are using 3DMax to make custom assets/meshes. Why isn't Steam checking for their 3DMax's (or whatever software they used) licenses? Are the owners of the said software programs going to sue those who published 3Dmax content without having a license or paying royalties? This is getting really deep.
AFAIK if you have a "student" version of 3DSMax or Photoshop or whatever, then you can't use that to create stuff that you sell, but if you have a "retail" version then you're ok.
CybernatonEvolution
Member
The retail version's license is very expensive isn't it? I do recall it being 2000$+.
No it isn't. Stop with the doomsday scenarios and crappy conspiracies. They will never stop people from releasing free mods on the workshop. They are not going to force people to charge for their content.
Moral Panic
Member
So you think it is right that Durante should have to pay 50% of anything earned to Namco for DSFix?
Valve won't, you're correct. However, Gabe specifically refused to take a stand against disallowing such things on the platform he runs. What Valve won't do willingly, publishers will gladly do.
Damerman
Member
not unless they are really really really good... money tends to bring that effort out of people
Damerman
Member
the only reason a publisher makes money off of a mod is if the creator makes money. Its the same way if you use the unreal engine 4 to put out a free game, what royalties can Epic charge you?
I'm watching this now, it is a great video. I agree with him. The comments on Chesko and his treatment were spot on...
Nocturno999
Member
Some of the new mods people are uploading are hilarious.
CybernatonEvolution
Member
If you are talking about GeDoSaTo, Namco has no rights to that injector tool; it is an open source software made by Durante that works with any DX9 game.
If I remember correctly, Xinput (PS3 driver/emulator) required you to be a member of the software author's forum, which was a paid membership. Durante can take that path if he wants to sell his injector.
Also, don't forget that Durante used some SweetFX shaders, and his injector relies on something that I don't remember; I don't know the technical details. So it is a cluster-fuck software to sell (unless Durante gets rid of the DX9 injector code and SweetFX shaders).
That aside, Bethesda should get part of the split. You are using their Modding toolkits and IP; your mod doesn't work without that IP. Remember that video games have large inflated budgets due to marketing, and your mod is getting exposure by being playable at that video game/game engine. Bethesda invested a lot in making Skyrim moddable and making the appropriate tool kits. too.
Durante has the option of selling it for 50% or giving it away for free. So your example is...dumb. You think he should not be ALLOWED to ask for some money for his hard work?
I honestly don't care about this issue either way. I'd probably never buy a mod, but I don't mind modders charging for them. After a couple of days of constant fighting, I just want this issue to be settled once and for all in a way that the majority is happy, so we can go back to enjoying Steam as before 
Steam doesn't check to make sure you've licensed all your middleware correctly for regular steam releases. Neither does Wal Mart, Best Buy, Gamestop, Amazon, Xbox Live, PSN, eShop, or your local game store. That's not their job and it's a near legal liability impossibility to even begin enforcing it from their end.
That's your legal problem and if you are busted using a non-commercial license you'll face the consequence of it just like if you used it for any other situation.
It seems like it would pretty much take the planets to align for that to be the case though. As I admitted in the Gabe AMA thread I don't value mods very highly so that would take some mod. It would also take not just the mod being good, but the process of installing it to be quick and easy as well. Pretty much the mod would have to be on the same level as official DLC.
Actually you know what as I was typing this it occurred to me there is one mod that I would of happily paid for. It was that Morrowind Overhaul mod I used sometime back. That mod made it easy to make Morrowind look amazing and probably saved me countless hours of doing it manually.
CadetMahoney
Member
pretty much. 75% is crazy.
I honestly don't care about this issue either way. I'd probably never buy a mod, but I don't mind modders charging for them. After a couple of days of constant fighting, I just want this issue to be settled once and for all in a way that the majority is happy, so we can go back to enjoying Steam as before
Cantr happen because Steam is terrible because they dont release games anymore and they are charging money for people to put up free mods for free and are literally ruining steam by not making Half Life 3.
Mithos
Member
The reason why mods from steam workshop is bad, they autoupdate as long as you subscribe, and apparently people claim that after this paid mod update they even autoupdate even after you unsubscribe.
It's amazing how many people have been conditioned to attack their fellow gamers when they critize things that negatively effect them. Considering the amount of shit that gamers have had to deal with, and the amount of nickel and dimeing that they been subjected to over the years, calling them entitled for not wanting the purest aspect of PC gaming to turn into a greedy shitshow is laughable. It's been a slow erosion over the years but with paid mods the pod people have finally taken over, and if don't step in line, bend over and take it you're "entitled". If I had a time machine and could go back and tell gamers past how easily we fell for this shit they wouldn't believe it. If only EA had done this it would be getting the reaction it deserves, instead of this apologist bullshit.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Yeah, because Steam are doing this out of pure goodwill, they aren't expecting to get money out of it or improve their business.
Right...
Zombie James
Banned
What a fucking mess. Shame on Bethesda for being greedy fucks and shame on Valve for letting it happen.
yes im sure that Valve allowing content creators to put up the content they made for a charge is literally nickel a dimeing me. Every mod on earth is going to be a 60$ DLC horse armor and we are all idiots for not understanding this.
Or maybe they are pushing this to see what will happen. Not everything Valve does is for "the good of the gamers" or "for loads of money" a lot of the stuff they push out is just to see how it will work. But then again, im conditioned to believe that a company who wants money is clearly evil and only companies that dont want money are good products
Imagine you;re in Bethesdas shoes. You created a software in which people are going to be making money off of, and not with their own engine, but by literally just pushing in 3d models into the software and charging for those models. it's not greedy, bethesda probably spent a lot of time and money working on thye creation kits for these games, and if someone is profiting off of it, then they deserve a cut. It's their software
Seems like an answer to me - he pretty much admits the whole theft / platgarism thing has only got some hack solutions in play at the moment (namely the DMCA takedown request is the only option), and their belief is that working on a sizeable solution that will scale with their exponential growth is the way to go / what they are working - with the equivalence being greenlight and their customer support
Now you have the option of actually believing / trusting they are working on it, or you can believe it is all bullshit and non-answers from the super evil mega corporation. The choice is yours, but I'd guess time will show which is right
That's purely a business decision between Durante and Valve/Namco. If someone creates a derivative work using someone else's intellectual property, they're not entitled to anything, legally or ethically, if they want to profit from it. It's up to the original IP holder, and there's really nothing ambiguous about that whatsoever. You can't sell your own NeoGAF tees unless I say so, and if my terms are a 99%/1% rev share in my favor, well, I must not want you to be able to sell NeoGAF tees. Tough luck, make your own brand.
Before now, you could give your Skyrim mod away for free or, um, try to work out some sort of deal individually with Bethesda, in which case, honestly, if you were somehow successful, you'd probably get a much worse deal than a 25% revenue share. In your dystopian hypothetical scenario, Durante probably gets a thousand times more money than he actually got out of DSFix from donations. I'm totally shaking my fist at the greedy corporations right now at the prospect of them taking the biggest cut while the content creator still gets exponentially increased compensation.
So, now you can give away your Skyrim mod for free or put it on the marketplace and get 25%, which is an option content creators didn't have before. It's up to them as to whether it's worth it or not. Community members working on Valve's games for 25% revshare certainly seem to think it's worth it. There's not much point being angry on their behalf.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I say fuck the modders for putting their mods up there with such horrendous terms.
The ONLY leverage modders have is refusing to participate.
Btw, if you find the terms so good, I have a lawn service I basically run, You can mow yards for my lawn service but I keep 75% of the proceeds.
Yeah, I advertise it and maintain customer service, but that justifies 75% don't you think?
Dre_G_Writer
Member
Man, this quote rings so damn tru to this situation, as if it was made for it.
You're not an idiot, just naive. Every time these things happen you get the "no big deal" brigade telling us there is nothing to see here and by the time everyone realizes they are wrong it's too late to do anything about it.
Get used to it basically. They have said this previously and are now saying it again - they will let the devs or pubs do what they want whether their decisions are good or bad - that is their philosophy.
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