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Slaves at the root of the fortune that created Richard Dawkins' family estate

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A

Arcteryx

Member
IceCold said:
Why stop there, why not go back as far as the Roman Empire? I'm pretty sure that a lot of my ancestors were either slaughtered or used as slaved by the Romans.
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I'm 99% sure some of mine were. But then again, this argument is solely being raised because he has a big target on his back.
 
Tesseract

Tesseract

Banned
“Your ancestors probably did too. It’s just that we happen to know who my ancestors were and perhaps we don’t know yours.”
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you is cold as ice.

by the by, the 2-hour youtubed conversation between dawkins and krauss titled 'something from nothing' is fantastic and worth all y'alls time.
 
J

jay

Member
elrechazao said:
Reporter sounds like an ass. My point was simply that there are real precedents for societal and legal criticism of people and companies for the roots of their fortunes. I have explicitly not suggested even once that Dawkins is personally susceptible to criticism based on these supposed links.
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So you are suggesting nothing other than there has been criticism for similar things by unnamed sources in the past? Powerful stuff.
 
R

Rapstah

Member
Teh Hamburglar said:
Sounds like the Saved by the Bell episode when Jesse finds out her family owned slaves.

Also, whats the source of the OP?
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The Telegraph. The article's tag line:
The ancestors of Richard Dawkins, the atheist campaigner against superstition, intolerance and suffering, built their fortune using slaves, it has been revealed.
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Yes, HE campaigns against those things, but his ancestors surely did not. How the fuck would it weigh down his message in any way that he has 1/128th of the same genes as that guy?
 
S

Stet

Banned
Man, now I'm actually kind of jealous. That reporter did an entire genealogy chart for Dawkins and he did it for free. Do me next!
 
J

JGS

Banned
slidewinder said:
Why do you dislike Dawkins?
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Because he either dislikes or pities me based on what he thinks belief is even though we've never met. In short, he's a jerk on the basis of thinking he knows more than he knows.

However, he shouldn't be treated unfairly. Slavery amongst the white wealthy is not headline making and there can be a disconnected even within a generation. The reporter was making a weak correlation. Heck I'm black & Native American and my ancestors probably owned slaves on both sides if one goes back far enough.

I'm not sure Dawkins like women or minorities (Nor do I care), but it would have little to do with what his ancestors did.
 
E

Empty

Member
i wonder how many of the daily telegraph's editorial staff have slave owning ancestors and benefited from their wealth. probably a high percentage.
 
B

Bombadil

Banned
AShep said:
I've got no problem with Dawkins being tainted with the attrocities committed by his forbears in the same way that atheists continue to judge the entire Catholic clergy based on the horrific crimes of the few.

For the record this doesn't influence my thoughts on Dawkins in the slightest.
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Criticizing an institution for its past actions is quite different from criticizing a man for his ancestors' actions.

The preset doctrines that dictated the Crusades are still present in the Catholic Church today, in a less active form.

The Church is often forced to change due to external influences rather than from within, so it's definitely more deserving of criticism than Dawkins, who has never in any way indicated that he was anything like his slave-owning Christian ancestors.
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
AShep said:
I've got no problem with Dawkins being tainted with the attrocities committed by his forbears in the same way that atheists continue to judge the entire Catholic clergy based on the horrific crimes of the few.

For the record this doesn't influence my thoughts on Dawkins in the slightest.
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The Catholic church and its highest authorities have been hiding pedophile priests and actively covering the truth for decades. And they still do.

Do not fucking dare to compare each other.
 
Tesseract

Tesseract

Banned
Hellsing321 said:
Where is the harisonfordwhogivesashit.gif when I need it?
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i made a new version for the upton thread, though in this case i don't think it applies.

aQHR0.gif
 
L

lexi

Banned
AShep said:
I've got no problem with Dawkins being tainted with the attrocities committed by his forbears in the same way that atheists continue to judge the entire Catholic clergy based on the horrific crimes of the few.

For the record this doesn't influence my thoughts on Dawkins in the slightest.
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You mean the many, many instances of abuse and evil committed and then covered up by the church?
 
Monocle

Monocle

Member
Abject smear tactics. That "journalist" is an assclown.

JGS said:
Because he either dislikes or pities me based on what he thinks belief is even though we've never met. In short, he's a jerk on the basis of thinking he knows more than he knows.

However, he shouldn't be treated unfairly. Slavery amongst the white wealthy is not headline making and there can be a disconnected even within a generation. The reporter was making a weak correlation. Heck I'm black & Native American and my ancestors probably owned slaves on both sides if one goes back far enough.

I'm not sure Dawkins like women or minorities (Nor do I care), but it would have little to do with what his ancestors did.
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He's a scientist and public educator who rightly holds pseudoscience and mythology peddled as fact in low regard. There is no good reason to act shocked when well-informed people evince pity for uninformed or misinformed people.
 
S

scar tissue

Banned
pro-slavery gene? instant classic

reporter is an asshole and a moron. what dawkin's forefathers did has no bearing on him, plus they were most likely christian, plus there's a good chance the reporter as some kind of slaver or other scumbag in his family tree as well. must've inherited the douchebag gene from him.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
AShep said:
I've got no problem with Dawkins being tainted with the attrocities committed by his forbears in the same way that atheists continue to judge the entire Catholic clergy based on the horrific crimes of the few.

For the record this doesn't influence my thoughts on Dawkins in the slightest.
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How can you compare a person, an individual, with an institution that has endured for over a thousand years?

Appropriate: asking the government to apologize for a nation's past mistakes.

Inappropriate: Asking a current president to apologize for the last president's policies.
 
D

darkiguana

Member
I am no fan of Dawkins, but this is just crap. I am not going to condemning someone for what his ancestors may or may not have done is horsehit.
 
A

Air

Banned
I'm with the other people saying that this is one thing not to criticize Dawkins about. As other people have said, if you have some kind of old estate or something, that money is most likely dirty.

Ideally, nothing should really be judged by the actions of the past, but the present...
 
Wiktor

Wiktor

Member
I have very bad opinion about Dawkins, but bashing him for what some old ancestor of his did is retarded.
 
A

akira28

Member
I demand a statement from him, saying how much he loves black people. And also a statement declaring which black Hollywood actresses he finds most attractive.

edit:
it obviously has little bearing on the man's character, but digging in the dirt and finding out embarrassing things about one's past and trying to get you to make a statement based on how it affects the present is what news bodies have done since forever. So his ancestors owned a plantation empire(seriously...damn. those numbers), but that just puts him in the company of British upper crust and American forefathers, so they were really just hoping he'd say something newsworthy to get a story out of it.)
 
S

Sutton Dagger

Member
No more ridiculous than 'inheriting sin' from Adam & Eve who ate a piece of fruit many more generations ago. At least he isn't being forced to repent for 'crimes' he did not commit.
 
V

Volimar

Member
I'm not a fan of his either, but yeah this is idiocy. Guy must be squeaky clean for them to have to go this far to find dirt on him...
 
I

Ivan A Nguyen

Member
akira28 said:
I demand a statement from him, saying how much he loves black people. And also a statement declaring which black Hollywood actresses he finds most attractive.
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It's not enough that he has a black friend?

Anyway, how is this a story? If he were to be giving out reparations, then I'd understand. Few people get to chose their parents, except for those lucky orphans old enough to have their pick, and finding out about great great great great great grand parents only means something to those who are paying a monthly fee to ancestry.com.
 
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