Smartjoy FRAG, and the ethic of a competitive fps player in Halo2.

S

shuri

Banned
I love fps games. It's pretty much my favorite genre. I upgrade my PCs all the time so I get squeeze more fps, allowing me to aim better. I spent a lot of time coming up with strategies and plans for the games I play. After big games, I like to analyse my performance and where I did good and where I did mistakes.

I really like Halo 2 online. The duke controller is damn good enough, but I want more. I just bought a SmartJoy Adapter from a local shop. I've heard a lot of people complaining about how the adapter will fuck over the stat system on bungie.net, and how its unfair and bla bla bla. I don't care if its unfair for you. I care about me and my team doing good and winning games. If you are unable to compete, it's not my or my team's problem. In the same situation, I would love to find a way to outsmart an opponent with better capacities. If you dont enjoy that challenge, you'll get fragged.

And I will win.

FPS games are 40% shooting skills and 60% strategy. If you can aim good, but cant teamplay for shit, you will do good in solo slayer games, but youre gonna get owned in teamplay games.

I believe the real key to winning in fps games is teamplay/strategy, not the type of controller you are using.

You can build a house with a good enough hammer if you have the skills. You cant build anything solid if you're crap at drawing the plans, even if you have a good hammer. The guy with the know-how and the high quality tools will do better.

I want to be that guy. I will win.
 
You may get some extra kills. But can you single handidly pull out a victory on a 16 person CTF or Assault map? No. You'll need your teammates help.
 
Mrbob said:
You may get some extra kills. But can you single handidly pull out a victory on a 16 person CTF or Assault map? No. You'll need your teammates help.
Click to expand...

In my first game of Halo 2 online, I scored all three victories in CTF with almost no help whatsoever. This was with GAF players on the "Bloodgulch" map too. :)

That probably won't happen again, but I'm just saying it's possible.
 
What's this SmartJoy adaptor? Some sort of way to connect a mouse/keyboard to the Xbox or something?

Eh, I'd prefer a controller over a mouse/keyboard anyways. Perhaps it DOES limit my aiming abilities, but I'm having more fun doing it, so I could care less.
 
It's kind of weird......I was curious so I jacked up the analog sensitivity in Halo 2. I thought it was going to be ridiculous, but it really feels about the same as a default setting for a PC mouse+keyboard. With some time I'm pretty sure that you could learn to play the game with settings at 10, thus neutralizing a good bit of the SmartJoy Frag advantage.
 
I think it's all about your comfort level with the controller, though I won't debate that a good mouse guy beats a good controller guy. There's a great take on Halo 2 by the PC Editor at GameSpy today. He uses that adapter as well.

And I totally agree with your skill/teamwork breakdown though it's not valid for every match obviously.
 
You guys use auto-center?

I never use it on the PC cuz there's no need thanks to the mouse. But on console games, I find it impossible to play without it.
 
with a real kb/mouse fps input, there would be no contest, but with the smartjoy, it's still limited by game imposed restrictions on analog movement, so there's no real physical advantage...

it's just a sense of the player feeling more comfortable using the control style they like (KB/M) over something they don't like as much or don't feel as comfortable with...
 
I ordered one also fucking console controller fps!


and It will be nice to be able to jump aim strafe crouch etc all at the same time insteada have to take your finger off the right analog (if u wanted to jump for instances).
 
School the uneducated (me), I'm not an FPS player but love Halo. What're the advantages of a keyboard/mouse over a controller? Not talking the adaptor for the console, I mean a PC FPS controlled by mouse/keyboard vs a console FPS via an analog controller. I've just always heard this argument and am wondering what it's all about.
 
Tons easier to aim with mouse. Plus you have so many buttons on the keyboard that you can bind to a command
 
The Faceless Master said:
with the smartjoy, it's still limited by game imposed restrictions on analog movement
Click to expand...
That's what i was waiting to hear. BuddyC never cleared that part up to my satisfaction.

I'm assuming that you've used the device, with Halo 2, and can confirm that is in fact how it works?
 
ArcadeStickMonk said:
That's what i was waiting to hear. BuddyC never cleared that part up to my satisfaction.

I'm assuming that you've used the device, with Halo 2, and can confirm that is in fact how it works?
Click to expand...
I never knew how to, truthfully.

The adapter is limited by the game itself, depending on how it was programmed. It works best if you can turn up analog sensitivity, but if the game doesn't have that option, your cursor can sometimes move very slowly.

On a game like Halo, where you can really crank up the sensitivity, the mouse works rather well. But I haven't tested it with Halo 2, and likely never will. I'm perfectly happy with the Controller S, odd as that may sound to some.
 
BuddyChrist83 said:
I never knew how to, truthfully.

The adapter is limited by the game itself, depending on how it was programmed. It works best if you can turn up analog sensitivity, but if the game doesn't have that option, your cursor can sometimes move very slowly.

On a game like Halo, where you can really crank up the sensitivity, the mouse works rather well. But I haven't tested it with Halo 2, and likely never will. I'm perfectly happy with the Controller S, odd as that may sound to some.
Click to expand...



heresy!!!!!!!!!!
 
It works pretty well on Halo 2. On-foot feels almost exactly like a PC game. Vehicles, however, aren't that great at turning (no sharp turns, not very precise, lots of moving the mouse around) until you adjust the deadzone, which is the measurement the analog stick uses to determine when it is centered (i.e. at rest). You can have multiple control profiles, so you just modify the deadzone on the built-in Halo 1 profile (works great for Halo 2 on-foot) and save it as a new profile. Switch to it when you're in a vehicle and everything is kosher.
 
BuddyChrist83 said:
But I haven't tested it with Halo 2, and likely never will. I'm perfectly happy with the Controller S, odd as that may sound to some.
Click to expand...
Translation: I'm kicking ass in Halo 2, but don't want any of the other GAF Clan folk to know that I'm doing it with a mouse and keyboard :D
 
Just the fact that it exists bothers me. I can never feel 100% certian I am on a level playing field with everyone else. Especially when I see snipers picking off people with ease.
 
I was gonna get it, cause i am so accustomed to mouse and keyboard
but then changed my mind and decided to master halo 2 with a S controller.

if i got the smartjoy thing, although I would own, it would feel kinda cheap and I wouldnt feel as if I earned all my kills and I would probably end up getting bored with halo 2. With the Controller, Its Fair game.

peace
 
shuri said:
I love fps games. It's pretty much my favorite genre. I upgrade my PCs all the time so I get squeeze more fps, allowing me to aim better. I spent a lot of time coming up with strategies and plans for the games I play. After big games, I like to analyse my performance and where I did good and where I did mistakes.

I really like Halo 2 online. The duke controller is damn good enough, but I want more. I just bought a SmartJoy Adapter from a local shop. I've heard a lot of people complaining about how the adapter will fuck over the stat system on bungie.net, and how its unfair and bla bla bla. I don't care if its unfair for you. I care about me and my team doing good and winning games. If you are unable to compete, it's not my or my team's problem. In the same situation, I would love to find a way to outsmart an opponent with better capacities. If you dont enjoy that challenge, you'll get fragged.

And I will win.

FPS games are 40% shooting skills and 60% strategy. If you can aim good, but cant teamplay for shit, you will do good in solo slayer games, but youre gonna get owned in teamplay games.

I believe the real key to winning in fps games is teamplay/strategy, not the type of controller you are using.

You can build a house with a good enough hammer if you have the skills. You cant build anything solid if you're crap at drawing the plans, even if you have a good hammer. The guy with the know-how and the high quality tools will do better.

I want to be that guy. I will win.
Click to expand...
Hahahaha, what a fucking joke. I could walk into a house full of ninjas with an AK47 and win, but how the hell is that supposed to make you feel superior? You will probably improve your stats if you use a mouse and keyboard, but when you get beat by someone like me who's using just a controller, it'll exemplify your lack of skill just that much more.

But those were some really great paragraphs trying to justify your reasoning for ascending to an uneven playing field.
 
I played Halo 2 online for the 4th consecutive night and I'm not very good but I'm not going to *cheat* to get better at the game. Are people online probably using the adaptor? I'm sure they are, but a level playing field is what everyone should be looking for. I doubt that many people are using the thing on Halo 2.
 
You know, I've been making some pretty crazy sniper shots in Halo 2... probably better than most sniper shots I've made in PC FPS, so I actually like the analog control better. Turning around 180 degrees can be a pain sometimes, but when I really need to do that, I'm usually dead anyway, and I don't think having a mouse would fix that.
 
rastex said:
You know, I've been making some pretty crazy sniper shots in Halo 2... probably better than most sniper shots I've made in PC FPS, so I actually like the analog control better. Turning around 180 degrees can be a pain sometimes, but when I really need to do that, I'm usually dead anyway, and I don't think having a mouse would fix that.
Click to expand...

yea same here....turning 180 quickly for me is my only major problem right now.

that and the fact i have melee attack as my Right analog stick pushed in button so sometimes when im blasting away at someone with dual wielding, il accidently push in the right stick while trying to aim and il melee while instead of shoot and Toss my dual weapon while getting shot. oh god that is annoying. but it only happens once in a while

peace
 
On a somewhat related note, is there any way to turn off the auto aim thing? When I'm sniping, I try to line up a head shot and then all of a sudden, it will switch to another target that's passing nearby. It also does this in close firefights, but it pisses me off most when I have a clear shot.

Back on topic: I don't see why you would even need a mouse/kb for Halo 2. It controls just fine with the controller. I can see how you would improve your game with it, but I don't see why you need that kind of edge over other players. I hadn't even thought of people using the kb/mouse in this game when I'm online. How does the mic work?
 
Rorschach said:
On a somewhat related note, is there any way to turn off the auto aim thing? When I'm sniping, I try to line up a head shot and then all of a sudden, it will switch to another target that's passing nearby. It also does this in close firefights, but it pisses me off most when I have a clear shot.

Back on topic: I don't see why you would even need a mouse/kb for Halo 2. It controls just fine with the controller. I can see how you would improve your game with it, but I don't see why you need that kind of edge over other players. I hadn't even thought of people using the kb/mouse in this game when I'm online. How does the mic work?
Click to expand...
So you don't see the need for a mouse and keyboard even though you have problems with AUTO-AIM and SNIPING because of the limitations of the controller... ok.

I imagine there would be no use of a mic with it because then they'd hear you clicking away on the keyboard and mouse and call you a cheater! =P
 
I'm wondering how widespread use of this is on Xbox Live... Does it really help that much? Anyone willing to give or link to impressions from somebody's who's used it on XBL?
 
ArcadeStickMonk said:
That's what i was waiting to hear. BuddyC never cleared that part up to my satisfaction.

I'm assuming that you've used the device, with Halo 2, and can confirm that is in fact how it works?
Click to expand...
no, but two of my friends have it...
here's oen of their setups
halo2.jpg
 
luxsol said:
So you don't see the need for a mouse and keyboard even though you have problems with AUTO-AIM and SNIPING because of the limitations of the controller... ok.
Click to expand...
The auto-aim would still be there even if you plug in the kb/mouse. If the game was designed with keyboard/mouse combo and there was some first party peripherals, then there would be no problem.
 
The Faceless Master said:
no, but two of my friends have it...
here's oen of their setups
halo2.jpg
Click to expand...
I use that exact same keyboard. I'd imagine it's pretty popular among FRAG users that bought a new keyboard, mostly because it's $9.99 at Best Buy.
 
Mike Works said:
Hahahaha, what a fucking joke. I could walk into a house full of ninjas with an AK47 and win, but how the hell is that supposed to make you feel superior? You will probably improve your stats if you use a mouse and keyboard, but when you get beat by someone like me who's using just a controller, it'll exemplify your lack of skill just that much more.

But those were some really great paragraphs trying to justify your reasoning for ascending to an uneven playing field.
Click to expand...


IAWTP, totally.

It all comes down to why you are playing the game. So you can brag that you beat people using a controller with your k/m? Does that make you a superior gamer? Not really, makes you pretty lame that you had to get an advantage to win. Seems similiar to someone using a gameshark or similiar device then jumping online winning 10 games in a row, then acting like they are the most 733t of them all. I just think when playing online, especially with other GAF members, it should be a totally even playing field. Let skills, not 3rd party products determine the winner.
 
Rorschach said:
The auto-aim would still be there even if you plug in the kb/mouse. If the game was designed with keyboard/mouse combo and there was some first party peripherals, then there would be no problem.
Click to expand...


This was kind of my beef with the whole Frag thing last month or however many weeks ago when the peripheral itself was introduced as a topic. That aside I'm aware it's a hopeless arguement to try and say things like "unfair" and "level playing field." I take some comfort in knowing that I don't really like Slayer matches and other similar game types that put more weight on twitch and sometimes blind luck.

I've yet to encounter anyone online who seemed to be uncannily accurate or anything that might lead me to suspect SmartJoy use, so it doesn't seem to be all that widespread to begin with. I do however have some concern for those who actively participate in tournaments, since tournaments and other competitions like that often have rules and regulations that are enforced.
 
I'd be against it if I wasn't one of the freaks who used the inverted southpaw setup (yep, I'm a lefty) in the original Halo and am now getting royally fucked because everytime I jump I end up zooming in (or just zoom in, it's hard to hold the analog pad all the way forward and hit the damn button).

I have to retrain myself to play the game which is going to take forever.
 
TFM,


I just looked up your buddy term on Bungie.net and he only checks in as a level 5 with his smartjoy frag. I'm at the same level with a controller in rumble slayer, but I've also played about twice as many games. So is it a small advantage? Probably, but it's not like he is dominating the rooms he's in with his little cheating device. I'm horrible at FPS and don't generally like them, but the fact that people would buy this device to gain an advantage in an online game is retarded.

JayFro
 
Mike Works said:
Hahahaha, what a fucking joke. I could walk into a house full of ninjas with an AK47 and win, but how the hell is that supposed to make you feel superior? You will probably improve your stats if you use a mouse and keyboard, but when you get beat by someone like me who's using just a controller, it'll exemplify your lack of skill just that much more.

But those were some really great paragraphs trying to justify your reasoning for ascending to an uneven playing field.
Click to expand...

perfectly put ::applauds::

i personally think anyone who uses this device specifically to gain an unfair advantage against unsuspecting users is a scumbag. if they could have their own lobby where they played among themselves then i wouldn't care what they did... but then, most of them wouldn't do it if it didn't let them "cheat" other users. i hope Bungie figures out a way to render these devices useless on Xbox Live, reset their stats and give em a few weeks off XBL to think about their cheatin ways. it would make it so sweet that all these people wasted that money and got burnt.
 
Teddman said:
I'm wondering how widespread use of this is on Xbox Live... Does it really help that much? Anyone willing to give or link to impressions from somebody's who's used it on XBL?
Click to expand...
Lhadatt said:
It works pretty well on Halo 2. On-foot feels almost exactly like a PC game. Vehicles, however, aren't that great at turning (no sharp turns, not very precise, lots of moving the mouse around) until you adjust the deadzone, which is the measurement the analog stick uses to determine when it is centered (i.e. at rest). You can have multiple control profiles, so you just modify the deadzone on the built-in Halo 1 profile (works great for Halo 2 on-foot) and save it as a new profile. Switch to it when you're in a vehicle and everything is kosher.
Click to expand...
An update: I remapped one of the built-in profiles to a separate Halo/Halo 2 config with increased deadzone, which allows for almost Halo PC-like vehicle control. So yes, it's completely playable, and Live can't tell the difference. Note, however, that it doesn't make me some FPS god or something -- there are people using the pad that totally pwn me into last week.

The only reason I use the SJF is I totally, utterly, supremely suck with the control pad. I hate using a pad for FPS games, it feels unnatural no matter how much I try. Sorry, but you pad freaks are going to have to tolerate the keyboarders. It's not "cheating," it's just our choice of controller.
 
shpankey said:
perfectly put ::applauds::

i personally think anyone who uses this device specifically to gain an unfair advantage against unsuspecting users is a scumbag. if they could have their own lobby where they played among themselves then i wouldn't care what they did... but then, most of them wouldn't do it if it didn't let them "cheat" other users. i hope Bungie figures out a way to render these devices useless on Xbox Live, reset their stats and give em a few weeks off XBL to think about their cheatin ways. it would make it so sweet that all these people wasted that money and got burnt.
Click to expand...
You people need to seriously get over this. It's not a cheat device, it's just another controller. I don't complain if I'm playing Ridge Racer using a normal pad and my opponent is using a Negcon or whatever -- that would be stupid, just as is arguing against the SJF. It's here to stay, deal with it.

It really comes down to how skilled you are with your choice of controller. As I said before, I suck with the pad, I can't manage to use it effectively. That doesn't mean I lack skill at Halo -- that means I hate the controller interface MS has shoved down our throats. This is why I purchased the SJF: so I could actually play the game I have been waiting for since I first got into Halo PC.

I invite any of you "OMFG ITS TEH CHEAT DEVICE" maroons to challange me on XBL (gamertag same as forum nick) to see just how much of a cheat device it's not.
 
The Faceless Master said:
Jay... read my first post in this thread :lol :lol :lol
Click to expand...


:lol :lol :lol

By the way, you aren't funny..........

Many people are probably buying the smartjoy frag with the impression that it's an advantage in Halo 2. Othwerwise I can't see why anyone would drop that kind of ching on something that is merely an adapter.

It would be interesting to see out of the current top 100 Halo 2 players how many of them use the smartjoy frag device.


"The easiest way to explain how the mouse support works is to imagine it as a fancy remote control for the gamepad's analog stick. Through whatever magical and technical mumbo-jumbo happens inside the device, your mouse movements are somehow converted into a signal that the Xbox interprets as the movement of the gamepad stick. This allows you to aim with a lot more finesse than with the analog stick, but it still isn't true mouse support, which becomes obvious under certain conditions."

"Will the SmartJoy FRAG change the face of Halo 2 online? Probably not. I think it's a better alternative than using a gamepad, but it's easy to tell that it's a little short of true mouse support. That said, as I head back to finish the final levels of Halo 2, I can't help but feel like I have a slight advantage over my Covenant foes, and that this little device was $30 well spent."

http://xbox.gamespy.com/articles/565/565000p2.html



http://www.talkxbox.com/hreview15.html

"In game, prepare to be amazed by a whole new world of control, ease, and ownage. With sensitivity cranked up to 10, you will be able to aim like the best, nailing Elites, Grunts, and Brutes every which way, and nail sniper hit after sniper hit."

"But, when you are using good hardware there is truly nothing like playing Halo with a keyboard and mouse, as you have just that much more control over the game, allowing you to focus on the game and not the aiming."

"Overall, the SmartJoy FRAG is an amazing little device. It does its job, and it does it well. Despite a few rough patches, such as controller cord length and USB slots, the SmartJoy does precisely what it sets out to do: enable a whole new audience to enjoy the Xbox’s fantastic game library, on their own terms and in their own way. This is just another way for the Xbox to reach a new group of players, and I personally welcome it. Whether or not Microsoft will be able to regulate its use on Live is a whole different story, but if you are a PC gamer looking to get Halo 2, sans controller, then this is your ticket in."
 
http://gear.ign.com/articles/558/558944p2.html



"The worst I've seen the SmartJoy FRAG perform is just OK. In those cases, some things may be better about using a mouse/keyboard and others may be better with a controller. But even at those times I'd probably still use the SmartJoy FRAG over the standard controller. In the games where it works really well though, there's no question at all that I'd rather use it than a controller."


"Halo just works damn fine with the SmartJoy FRAG. Movement is as smooth as butter and being able to spin around or look anywhere quickly is a godsend. Our only complaint with thisis that the vertical movement is slower than the horizontal, but that's not too big a deal. Hopefully Halo 2 has options for both."

"The way we figure it is that if you own more than one first-person shooter on either PS2 or Xbox, you'd do yourself well by picking one up. It works great with some of the best software on either system, especially Halo (and presumably its sequel) on Xbox. And you gamers out there looking forward to Killzone should pick up the PS2 version as it'll do you well in your killing of zones."


It's not an advantage though? I call bullshit........
 
The Faceless Master said:
with a real kb/mouse fps input, there would be no contest, but with the smartjoy, it's still limited by game imposed restrictions on analog movement, so there's no real physical advantage...

it's just a sense of the player feeling more comfortable using the control style they like (KB/M) over something they don't like as much or don't feel as comfortable with...
Click to expand...
... :lol :lol :lol
 
The Faceless Master said:
... :lol :lol :lol
Click to expand...


Most reviewers note an advantage with using this adapter. Most of them say it works better than a controller and at the very least it's as good as the controller. The bottom line is that people are looking for an advantage with this thing.
 
JayFro said:
Most reviewers note an advantage with using this adapter. Most of them say it works better than a controller and at the very least it's as good as the controller. The bottom line is that people are looking for an advantage with this thing.
Click to expand...
please explain the technical nature of this so called advantage...
 
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