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[Date of Lies]

Jak X? Sly 3? Ratchet: Dead locked? Come on.

And they say Capcom and Nintendo milk their shit way too much. None of those franchises even eclipse Nintendo's or Capcom's franchise popularity and yet they're still selling out for all it's worth. I already don't care for characters like Jak or Sly and this will only make hesitate on picking up any of those games. Come on are we going to see a new sequel to these franchises, I mean these games might be good of course, but if Nintendo started making a new Zelda game every year, It would definitively lose all it's magic.

Sony is milking it's franchises, there's no defense to be had here.

Jak X :lol

OA for EGM scans

 

[Suikoguy]

I guess you have never played the entirety of the Ratchet Series, nor Sly 1 and 2

 

[sprsk]

im just getting tired of sequels in general. mind you i wont dismiss a sequel, but id really rather have a new game than a 5th iteration of some other idea.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

*puts TGIF Cheese sticks in oven, gets ready*

 

[Dead]

hey if Jak X is even half as fun as Crash Team Racing, im all for it


of course it probably wont...

 

[Ryudo]

Havent played any of Jak or R+C, just not my thing. People keep buying them so i dont see why sony shouldnt keep making them.

 

[Wario64]

I'm only interested in Ratchet. I liked Sly Cooper but I thought Sly 2 was boring shit, screw the free-roaming world HUB

Ratchet & Clank series has always been top notch, but I dont know how this new Ratchet game will be

 

[Amir0x]

Jak X? Sly 3? Ratchet: Dead locked? Come on.

And they say Capcom and Nintendo milk their shit way too much. None of those franchises even eclipse Nintendo's or Capcom's franchise popularity and yet they're still milking it for all it's worth, I don't care about characters like Jak or Sly and this will only make hesitate on picking up any of those games. Come on are we going to see a new sequel to these franchises, I mean these games might be good of course, but if Nintendo started making a new Zelda game every year, It would definitively lose all it's magic.

Come, Sony is milking it's franchises, there's no defense to be had here.

Jak X :lol

OA for EGM scans

Wow, you're late with this news. Sly 3 is the only remaining traditional platformer type situation among them. Ratchet and Jak X are decidedly different takes on their respective IP universes. Ratchet: Deadlocked is the "first squad-based platformer", whatever that means. Jak X is a... racing/car combat game.

Am I getting tired of em'? Well, it depends on how far they're willing to push the idea. Since I'm fairly sure this is the only gen we'll see these respective characters under Sony care, I don't mind a last hurrah. Naughty Dog made Crash Team Racing, which was a brilliant kart game. So I don't mind Jak X if they can do something similar for the car combat genre. If we start seeing Jak Industrial Soccer and Ratchet and Clank: Spheda Challenge, I'll probably start to get annoyed.

But 3 traditional platformers from each of the respective series + one 'additional' game for trying something different sounds ok, if this is the only gen we will see them. Naughty Dog has already said they're working on something different for PS3, as is Insomniac. So that's all that matters to me. Provided these titles remain quality then I won't mind if we have one more outing for each title this gen.

 

[Goreomedy]

Sony's NEW IP God of War kinda rocks. And they've been supportive all through the 3+ year development. Any applause on that end? Anyone? Anyone?

 

[Date of Lies]

I dont understand, if this was Nintendo or Capcom, everyone would call it reharshing and milking, but since it's Sony, it's "acceptable" now I don't mind these franchises at all, but if Sony keeps pumping them, they will only become the next Crash and Spiro.

This isn't about God of War, I know Sony supports good original IPs like ICO and Wanda, but this? It's going to be the 4th Jak game in a generation and Jak wasn't such a great game.

 

[Amir0x]

Sony's NEW IP God of War kinda rocks. And they've been supportive all through the 3+ year development. Any applause on that end? Anyone? Anyone?

Fuck yes. Sony Santa Monica, plz to bring more great games. <3 Amir0x.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I dont understand, if this was Nintendo or Capcom, everyone would call it reharshing and milking, but since it's Sony, it's "acceptable" now I don't mind these franchises at all, but if Sony keeps pumping them, they will only become the next Crash and Spiro.

This isn't about God of War, I know Sony supports good original IPs like ICO and Wanda, but this?

This thread is young, give it time

 

[Ryudo]

I dont understand, if this was Nintendo or Capcom, everyone would call it reharshing and milking, but since it's Sony, it's "acceptable" now I don't mind these franchises at all, but if Sony keeps pumping them, they will only become the next Crash and Spiro.

What you need to understand is that this forum is mainly pro sony posters. You really cant compare what sony is doing to the whoring that nintendo has done. Thats unfair. Nintendo wrote the book on beating the dead horse.

I think i have almost offended every cross section of gamers, but just to make sure;

Xbox sucks and PC and Macs are for goons.

 

[Jonnyram]

Sony has published more new IP than any other publisher this generation, I think. At least that holds true in Japan. I've never really been into their platformer series though.

 

[Date of Lies]

So what if Jak X is a good multiplayer crash car game, PS2 doesnt support 4 player :lol

 

[Alex]

Didn't you just say that Sony sucked in the other thread? Is there some reason you suddenly care other than to stir up trouble?

And no, if Nintendo released consistent, meaty sequels in adventure games and platformers in addition to the more fresh, obscure and fluff releases, I'd be much happier and supportive.

But hey, on the bright side I'm sure another mini-game collection, archaic Pokemon game and beyond stagnant Mario Party are right around the corner.

 

[Amir0x]

I dont understand, if this was Nintendo or Capcom, everyone would call it reharshing and milking, but since it's Sony, it's "acceptable" now I don't mind these franchises at all, but if Sony keeps pumping them, they will only become the next Crash and Spiro.

This isn't about God of War, I know Sony supports good original IPs like ICO and Wanda, but this? It's going to be the 4th Jak game in a generation and Jak wasn't such a great game.

I knew right when you started this thread that all it was is a vendetta.

First of all, Sony is not responsible for what Crash and Spyro has become. That's a seperate thing entirely. The games under Sony's care are arguably very high quality. Secondly, if you're trying to argue that making 4 games for each of its 3 distinctive franchises for a single gen and then dropping them is "milking", then I guess that's milking. It's certainly approaching it. But this is not a Mario situation. There have been a billion Mario games across 98 different platforms. After this gen, Sony will drop support for these franchises and will move on to Goad and Terror: A Gyushian Legend and make 4 games in that series for the PS3 generation. That's the key difference, I believe, and it makes the games much easier to swallow.

And your opinion about whether Jak is a "good" or "great" franchise is super debatable, but rest assured that their are plenty of fans of that series (and Ratchet and Sly) and that they have all received some pretty damn good rankings.

So what if Jak X is a good multiplayer crash car game, PS2 doesnt support 4 player :lol

What are you, fucking stupid? There are plenty of PS2 games that have 4 players. Called multi-tap. Sony should have had 4 controller ports, but suggesting PS2 "doesn't support 4 players" is tantamount to trolling.

 

[Wellington]

Alex, Amir0x, thank you for fighting the good fight so that I don't have to.

 

[Date of Lies]

What are you, fucking stupid? There are plenty of PS2 games that have 4 players. Called multi-tap. Sony should have had 4 controller ports, but suggesting PS2 "doesn't support 4 players" is tantamount to trolling.

How many people have multi-tap? :lol I dont know ANYONE with it.

I say bad things about all companies, including Nintendo and their shit DS library.

 

[Amir0x]

How many people have multi-tap? :lol I dont know ANYONE with it.

I have a multi-tap. HMMMM. Oh! Didn't see that one coming, eh? Obviously it's not an expense anyone wants to pay, but plenty of games have 4 players on PS2.

 

[speedpop]

To me there are good and bad sides to the gaming industry.

Good side? Games that blow your mind that you feel that you're the only person who will ever understand it fully, no matter how many times you whore it out to friends/associates/wankers.

Bad side? Rehashes (they are in every generation), licensed games with 98% of them being utter shit, and the above-mentioned wankers that love to push their own ideals onto a group that lead to them being boxed in.

I've only played the original Jak a little and thought it wasn't that good, but that doesn't mean I have to cry everytime they announce another Jak game is in production - my money isn't going towards it so why should I bother commenting on the status of the series?

 

[teh_pwn]

The difference is Nintendo has made over 50 Mario games over 20 years, and Sony makes new concepts every generation.

At least this generation Sony has actually provided an adequate amount of quality platformers. That can't be said with Nintendo.

 

[john tv]

With Ratchet and Jak, the characters aren't all that special to me (maybe Clank, but that's about it), but it's very obvious the developers are extremely talented, so I wish they'd put their energies into coming up with some new franchises rather than sticking with the SOS every year. They shouldn't be afraid to try something new.

With Sly, I actually really like the characters a lot, but even still, I'm sad to hear about a part three so soon... it's just not as exciting when they come out this close together. I haven't even had a chance to try part two yet, and already they're announcing the next one?

 

[Amir0x]

With Ratchet and Jak, the characters aren't all that special to me (maybe Clank, but that's about it), but it's very obvious the developers are extremely talented, so I wish they'd put their energies into coming up with some new franchises rather than sticking with the SOS every year. They shouldn't be afraid to try something new.

With Sly, I actually really like the characters a lot, but even still, I'm sad to hear about a part three so soon... it's just not as exciting when they come out this close together. I haven't even had a chance to try part two yet, and already they're announcing the next one?

To be fair, they ARE coming up with new franchises. They always focus on one primary franchise per gen. PS3 will have a new one. Naughty Dog already said this was their last Jak game, and one of them (I forgot if it's Insomniac or Naughty Dog) is working on a FPS for PS3 that is supposed to rival Halo (of course, take that with a grain of salt... we know about Killzone).

 

[Tellaerin]

I dont understand, if this was Nintendo or Capcom, everyone would call it reharshing and milking, but since it's Sony, it's "acceptable" now I don't mind these franchises at all, but if Sony keeps pumping them, they will only become the next Crash and Spiro.

This isn't about God of War, I know Sony supports good original IPs like ICO and Wanda, but this? It's going to be the 4th Jak game in a generation and Jak wasn't such a great game.

I agree, Sony's in danger of overexposing these characters now. However, nothing they've done to milk their franchises approaches what Nintendo's done in that department. If Sony was releasing Jak Tennis, Jak Golf, Daxter Ware (for PSP), and Jak Party 6, you might be able to argue otherwise, but for now, Nintendo retains the franchise overkill crown.

 

[Mike Works]

I'd probably care if I liked Ratchet and Clank or Jak in the first place. The sequels offer new levels, weapons, modes, but it all looks the same. I'm glad the franchises that I do enjoy, stuff like Zelda, see, at the very least, graphical overhauls to keep them from getting stale. I buy few sequels as it is though.

 

[john tv]

To be fair, they ARE coming up with new franchises. They always focus on one primary franchise per gen. PS3 will have a new one. Naughty Dog already said this was their last Jak game, and one of them (I forgot if it's Insomniac or Naughty Dog) is working on a FPS for PS3 that is supposed to rival Halo (of course, take that with a grain of salt... we know about Killzone).

One franchise per generation sucks. Two or three -- that's nice. But one? I'm already sick to death of Jak, why would I even think about buying another Jak game, platformer or not? It's overkill, and it just hurts the overall brand image. Nobody wants to be forcefed the same thing every year. Give us some time to miss them, at least. Sheesh.

 

[teh_pwn]

No one's being force fed the same concept each year. You don't have to buy the game.

The alternative is to make different concepts, but not have enough time to make enough games.

 

[xsarien]

:: looks around ::

Great Scott, my dimensional transport works! I've found a world where Nintendo and Sony's place in video games is the complete opposite of my own Earth!

 

[Amir0x]

One franchise per generation sucks. Two or three -- that's nice. But one? I'm already sick to death of Jak, why would I even think about buying another Jak game, platformer or not? It's overkill, and it just hurts the overall brand image. Nobody wants to be forcefed the same thing every year. Give us some time to miss them, at least. Sheesh.

Nobody is saying they shouldn't space things out - that'd be best for everyone - but on the other hand, at least the titles they do make ARE good. They focus on a single IP and make it...well...good. And you know what? Imho, they've succeeded. Ratchet and Clank has become progressively better with each game, and Up Your Arsenal is phenomenal. Jak III is an aquired taste, but even that I really like. Sly 1 and 2 are awesome, and all I wish is that they had the return of uber commentary for Sly 3.

I mean, this is just a personal viewpoint but I believe that as long as the 3 or 4 titles they make for a franchise in each gen don't suck (and they don't, if gamerankings and my own opinion are to be believed) then I don't have a problem with it provided they move on to something different the following gen. I would not accept Jak 5 for PS3, or Ratchet and Clank: Underwater Seal. For other franchises, we have the rest of the Sony crew to look for. I think Naughty Dog and Insomniac (and to a lesser extent Sucker Punch) have just been filling in the different platforming niche. Sly is a "For everyone" platformer, Ratchet is filling that alternate approach to platforming niche (run and gun), and Jak is for the "I want a little angst and GTA in my platformer" crowd now.

But that's one mans view. It's certainly getting close to milking, but like I said provided these games are quality (which they have been) and provided this is the last we'll see of them I'm not opposed to it.

 

[Lord Error]

Sony's NEW IP God of War kinda rocks.

"Kinda" is an understatement of the year And yeah, they deserve major props for pushing and financing that game the way they did.

As for the new batch of mascot sequels, I don't know what to think. I have yet to play R&C 3, Jak 3 and Sly 2, but Jak X at least doesn't seem to be a sequel to begin with. A cart racing game that uses the same set of characters? Fine. Even Ratchet doesn't seem to be the simillar thing as the previous three games, really. More like an "Unreal Tournament" type of thing, from what I can understand.

 

[Ristamar]

I still need to play the original R&C and Sly Cooper. GAF's harsh opinions of Jak II and Jak III have scared me away from that particular series a bit, though I still plan on trying out Jak & Daxter.

 

[Date of Lies]

One franchise per generation sucks. Two or three -- that's nice. But one? I'm already sick to death of Jak, why would I even think about buying another Jak game, platformer or not? It's overkill, and it just hurts the overall brand image. Nobody wants to be forcefed the same thing every year. Give us some time to miss them, at least. Sheesh.

Exactly, on top of this, those IPs aren't nearly as popular as Nintendo's Mario and Pokemon or Rockstar's GTA so they can't really afford to be spread out too thin on a slice of toast, this is looking like a financial mistake. Generally when you want to milk something, you make sure it's huge. But I'm against milking and I'm against 1-per-year sequels (Pokemon, GTA, Mario Party and JAK). Series like Splinter Cell, Prince of Persia and even Soul Calibur (3? why not next gen?) lost their initial appeal because we saw too quick a sequel.

I know Mario (especially Party, I can't bring myself to care for those anymore) is milked, but I'm DYING for another Mario platformer because Nintendo only release a new one ever gen now, but all the others can go to hell, except maybe Kart (but DD sucked so..).

 

[Amir0x]

Exactly, on top of this, those IPs aren't nearly as popular as Nintendo's Mario and Pokemon or Rockstar's GTA so they can't really afford to be spread out too thin on a slice of toast, this is looking like a financial mistake. Generally when you want to milk something, you make sure it's huge. But I'm against milking and I'm against 1-per-year sequels (Pokemon, GTA, Mario Party and JAK). Series like Splinter Cell, Prince of Persia and even Soul Calibur (3? why not next gen?) lost their initial appeal because we saw too quick a sequel.

I know Mario (especially Party, I can't bring myself to care for those anymore) is milked, but I'm DYING for another Mario platformer because Nintendo only release a new one ever gen now, but all the others can go to hell, except maybe Kart (but DD sucked so..).

Except Ratchet and Jak have sold very well and have almost definitely been a financial success for Sony, so that argument is moot. Sly is not as successful as those two, but I'm sure even that is remaining a financial success.

 

[Defensor]

This is how you pump out sequels Nintendo!

 

[Date of Lies]

Except Ratchet and Jak have sold very well and have almost definitely been a financial success for Sony, so that argument is moot. Sly is not as successful as those two, but I'm sure even that is remaining a financial success.

Yeah this is one thing, I really just dont know exactly HOW well Jak 1, Jak 2, Jak 3, R&C1/2/3 and Sly 1/2 have sold. Generally no one talks about them in real life so I assume they arent that popular but if we could get some sales numbers I could get a better view of things. I know the first R&C rocketed in popularity when it became a GH.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

having each one get a new installment every year, and at the same time, does seem kind of overkill. To be fair, at least this year, they seem to be straying from the regular forumla (at least with Jak and Ratchet). Ratchet games are awesome though, so as long as they can keep the quality up, keep up the good work, i say. Haven't played the SLy games, but i've heard nothing but good things about them so i'll have to give them a shot one day. As for Jak, Naughty Dog should just stick to creating engines for Insomniac fulltime.

 

[acklame]

Jak X? Sly 3? Ratchet: Dead locked? Come on.

And they say Capcom and Nintendo milk their shit way too much. None of those franchises even eclipse Nintendo's or Capcom's franchise popularity and yet they're still selling out for all it's worth. I already don't care for characters like Jak or Sly and this will only make hesitate on picking up any of those games. Come on are we going to see a new sequel to these franchises, I mean these games might be good of course, but if Nintendo started making a new Zelda game every year, It would definitively lose all it's magic.

Sony is milking it's franchises, there's no defense to be had here.

Jak X :lol

OA for EGM scans

It's milking alright, and I don't think it needs to be "defended":

1. The market certainly isn't tired of these sequels (and that's what most publishers look at when they make decisions), considering how each installment is selling better than its previous one and the franchise is expanding fanbase throughout the years.
2. As you have pointed out, each new iteration is generally critically acclaimed.
3. JaK X & Ratchet: Deadlocked look to be very different games than just a straight rehash, so they are definetly taking the potential 'loss in magic' into consideration.
4. Which of the "Capcom franchise popularity" are you comparing to? All three R&C and Jak games either have already sold 1 million plus units in US or is on track to reach it soon.

 

[Spike]

One franchise per generation sucks. Two or three -- that's nice. But one? I'm already sick to death of Jak, why would I even think about buying another Jak game, platformer or not? It's overkill, and it just hurts the overall brand image. Nobody wants to be forcefed the same thing every year. Give us some time to miss them, at least. Sheesh.

And this is where this thread should end.

 

[Tabris]

I dont understand, if this was Nintendo or Capcom, everyone would call it reharshing and milking, but since it's Sony, it's "acceptable" now I don't mind these franchises at all, but if Sony keeps pumping them, they will only become the next Crash and Spiro.

This isn't about God of War, I know Sony supports good original IPs like ICO and Wanda, but this? It's going to be the 4th Jak game in a generation and Jak wasn't such a great game.

Mario games this generation...

Let's start with remakes/re-releases...

Super Mario Advance
Super Mario Advance 2
Super Mario Advance 3
Super Mario Advance 4
Super Mario Bros
Super Mario Bros 2 (JPN only so far)
Dr.Mario

Now on to "original" titles

Super Mario Sunshine
Mario Golf Advance
Mario Golf
Mario Power Tennis
Mario Kart Double Dash
Paper Mario 2
Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga
Mario 64 DS
Mario Party 4
Mario Party 5
Mario Party 6
Mario vs Donkey Kong

*there's probabaly a ton more I can't think of right now. Then if you throw in the Luigi games and Wario games, the list grows more.

VERSUS

Jak 1
Jak 2
Jak 3
Jak X

Sony is doing the Crash Bandicott milking of those series. Nothing as bad as what we see with Nintendo. I agree with neither, but the blame should start with Nintendo before Sony.

 

[SpoonyBard]

One franchise per generation sucks. Two or three -- that's nice. But one? I'm already sick to death of Jak, why would I even think about buying another Jak game, platformer or not? It's overkill, and it just hurts the overall brand image. Nobody wants to be forcefed the same thing every year. Give us some time to miss them, at least. Sheesh.

This is the truth.

I liked Jak & Daxter and have liked bits of Jak 2 (the hub world is annoying as fuck so I haven't played it very far) but I have absolutely no intention of buying the third Jak game, it's just one too many. Now, if they had skipped Jak 2 and done something completely different instead (or even Jak Kart), chances are I would have bought all of them.

 

[Tabris]

I don't know why you guys are complaining though. While I don't care for any of those series, it seems like a benefit for gamers.

Don't have a desire to play the game? that's awesome, cause now you can wait until it's GH and pick it up at the end of this generation for $20 bucks.

Still disagree with that many releases, but still, benefit for you guys.

 

[michael000]

If Sony was releasing Jak Tennis, Jak Golf, Daxter Ware (for PSP), and Jak Party 6, you might be able to argue otherwise, but for now, Nintendo retains the franchise overkill crown.

Lol, man those would be great games!

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Mario games this generation...

Let's start with remakes/re-releases...

Super Mario Advance
Super Mario Advance 2
Super Mario Advance 3
Super Mario Advance 4
Super Mario Bros
Super Mario Bros 2 (JPN only so far)
Dr.Mario

Now on to "original" titles

Super Mario Sunshine
Mario Golf Advance
Mario Golf
Mario Power Tennis
Mario Kart Double Dash
Paper Mario 2
Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga
Mario 64 DS
Mario Party 4
Mario Party 5
Mario Party 6
Mario vs Donkey Kong

*there's probabaly a ton more I can't think of right now. Then if you throw in the Luigi games and Wario games, the list grows more.

VERSUS

Jak 1
Jak 2
Jak 3
Jak X

Sony is doing the Crash Bandicott milking of those series. Nothing as bad as what we see with Nintendo. I agree with neither, but the blame should start with Nintendo before Sony.

thats a misleading comparison because most of those mario games are completely different genres, some by completely different developers. You might as well throw Hot Shots Golf and Gran Turismo onto the Sony side. Sure they all have Mario in them, but thats more because Mario is so bankable, and closer to a Mickey Mouse level than your average platformer mascot. Really, when you think about it, Nintendo isn't THAT bad at milking. Considering the kind of sales Mario Kart, Mario Sunshine, Zelda, ect... put up, lots of companies would just rush out sequel after sequel to capitalize on that, but Nintendo has never really done that.

 

[Tabris]

thats a misleading comparison because most of those mario games are completely different genres, some by completely different developers. You might as well throw Hot Shots Golf and Gran Turismo onto the Sony side. Sure they all have Mario in them, but thats more because Mario is so bankable, and closer to a Mickey Mouse level than your average platformer mascot. Really, when you think about it, Nintendo isn't THAT bad at milking. Considering the kind of sales Mario Kart, Mario Sunshine, Zelda, ect... put up, lots of companies would just rush out sequel after sequel to capitalize on that, but Nintendo has never really done that.

Well do a direct comparison. You're labeling Sony as complete milkers with their 3 Jak platform games and 1 Jak racer. Now compare that with 3 Mario Party games, all of the same series and same gameplay. Or the 4 different Wario Ware games. Or any other example.

Nintendo is still king. Don't delude yourself into thinking otherwise.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Well do a direct comparison. You're labeling Sony as complete milkers with their 3 Jak platform games and 1 Jak racer. Now compare that with 3 Mario Party games, all of the same series and same gameplay. Or the 4 different Wario Ware games. Or any other example.

Nintendo is still king. Don't delude yourself into thinking otherwise.

when did i label Sony complete milkers? I don't think one series makes a company a milker. Sure i think having a new Jak/Ratchet game every single year is overkill, but that doesn't make Sony milkers.

 

[Tabris]

Okay, yeah, that comment wasn't really directed specifically to you but this thread in general.

 

[gamergirly]

thats a misleading comparison because most of those mario games are completely different genres, some by completely different developers. You might as well throw Hot Shots Golf and Gran Turismo onto the Sony side. Sure they all have Mario in them, but thats more because Mario is so bankable, and closer to a Mickey Mouse level than your average platformer mascot. Really, when you think about it, Nintendo isn't THAT bad at milking. Considering the kind of sales Mario Kart, Mario Sunshine, Zelda, ect... put up, lots of companies would just rush out sequel after sequel to capitalize on that, but Nintendo has never really done that.

Mario is the exception to the rule. Nintendo laughs to the bank, and the millions of gamers who have bought them dont care

 

[Tabris]

Mario is the exception to the rule. Nintendo laughs to the bank, and the millions of gamers who have bought them dont care

They're wearing the Mario name pretty thin. Especially when you do comparisons of this generation versus the last in terms of Mario's selling power.

 

[Date of Lies]

They're wearing the Mario name pretty thin. Especially when you do comparisons of this generation versus the last in terms of Mario's selling power.

Atleast mario isn't weak character design.