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[Juice]

Juice, I think you're being a bit bullish in saying Revolution will look better because its not limited by HD.

Maybe the Xbox 360 and PS3 will have a fillrate hit due to using HD. But then Revolution is likely to be cost engineered around an SD/ED resolution.

Surely it'd be better to expect Revolution to have similar graphics on normal TVs, not better ones?

Oh, don't think I'm committing to predicting that. We all know that Nintendo would rather save a few pennies than really ratchet up the tech in the revolution. I would expect that this factor would be more likely to result in similar overall graphics at SDTV resolutions between the three consoles, even though Nintendo's won't be as overall powerful.

What I meant to emphasize was that even though Nintendo's console is likely to be considerably cheaper and less powerful, it'll at least have the advantage of targeted 480p, which means it'll likely have that advantage to gain some ground. That means, yeah, it'll probably look the same at 480p is what I meant.

 

[FortNinety]

God, I love these knee-jerk "just get a fucking monitor cable dumbass" responses. Is not wanting to spend $2000 on a TV that hard to comprehend?

While I still think that the Rev not having HD is a bad idea, the bottom line is that most people have standard def TVs and its going to remain that way for a VERY long time.

 

[DrLazy]

Playing videogames on a fucking computer monitor is the worst idea ever. Its not like you have a group of friends over to sit and watch the computer screen on your desk. You all sit around the television and play. I don't blame microsoft for supporting HD, but I agree with the original poster that there isn't one good fucking reason to upgrade to the next generation if the graphical jump will be barely noticible on my (and most people's) television sets.

 

[dorio]

It's like people are just looking at things to bitch about. Games will look better in HD, shocking!

 

[tedtropy]

God, I love these knee-jerk "just get a fucking monitor cable dumbass" responses. Is not wanting to spend $2000 on a TV that hard to comprehend?

While I still think that the Rev not having HD is a bad idea, the bottom line is that most people have standard def TVs and its going to remain that way for a VERY long time.

$2000? You assume everyone is buying some massive HD set. I've seen a 27" RCA 480P/1080i capable set for as low as $300 at Wal-mart. Is it a great HD set? No, but it's still a hell of a lot better than any 480i alternatives. HD sets are getting more affordable everyday. I think you'd be surprised how quickly the transistion could be. I picked up a great 30" HD set for about $850.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

It's like people are just looking at things to bitch about. Games will look better in HD, shocking!

I think the comments where reviewers said X360 games on a non-HDTV look a little better than current XBOX games is what is stressing people out. I still have hope that games will look great on my Sony non-HDTV that has a 16:9 mode.

 

[KarishBHR]

God, I love these knee-jerk "just get a fucking monitor cable dumbass" responses. Is not wanting to spend $2000 on a TV that hard to comprehend?

While I still think that the Rev not having HD is a bad idea, the bottom line is that most people have standard def TVs and its going to remain that way for a VERY long time.

Yea I have a home theatre projector with a huge screen. A monitor would be a huge downgrade.

I hope my projector will accept the VGA cord, but my projector can only do 800x600... is it even worth it?

 

[Screenboy]

$2000? You assume everyone is buying some massive HD set. I've seen a 27" RCA 480P/1080i capable set for as low as $300 at Wal-mart. Is it a great HD set? No, but it's still a hell of a lot better than any 480i alternatives. HD sets are getting more affordable everyday. I think you'd be surprised how quickly the transistion could be. I picked up a great 30" HD set for about $850.

People said the same thing about converting the analogue TV signal to Digital.

It'll take them years to achieve that let alone every TV be HD compatible.

 

[Hellraizah]

I seriously find it very funny, hearing about people REALLY excited about the Xbox 360, yet they don't have a 5.1 surround system, no HDTV and don't play online. Is there really another GOOD reason to buy an Xbox 360 except for all that ?

Personnally, I'm mixed between old school gaming and new technology, I'm really interested in Xbox 360 almost exclusively for Xbox Live Arcade. Playing old school games in HD, and online against friends is really the way to go. Oh, and Halo 2 in 720p

 

[sidnotcrazy]

Well isn't this expected? It's much harder to tell the difference (especially for casual gamers) between PGR2 and PGR3 on a normal TV. Besides, we've heard versions of this argument at the start of every generation. I remember some people saying even when the SNES came out that the graphical differences were hard to see unless you had a quality TV or if you connected the systems through the regular RF connection.

What are you smoking? The difference between the nes, and the snes was substantial. Anyone with a pair of eyes could tell the difference.

 

[Shawn]

I truly do not understand why someone who doesn't have an HDTV would want an Xbox 360.

 

[raYne]

I truly do not understand why someone who doesn't have an HDTV would want an Xbox 360.

To play the games? What a concept!

 

[Lionheart]

I truly do not understand why someone who doesn't have an HDTV would want an Xbox 360.

Why not? As has been said in this topic, games' graphics on 'normal tvs' are not even close to the 'graphics' of movies on 'normal tvs'. There is still a lot of room for improvement there, so why couldn't a game developed for 720p and downscaled not look a lot better than games of current generation?

 

[Beer Monkey]

I truly do not understand why someone who doesn't have an HDTV would want an Xbox 360.

Live Arcade, Achievements, cool exclusive franchises like Perfect Dark and PGR, fantastic online gaming with seamless connectivity. Of course all those things are meaningless when you are just some biased troll trying to stir shit up.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

I truly do not understand why someone who doesn't have an HDTV would want an Xbox 360.

To play with the many friends I have made on XBOX Live that are getting one. Look, I understood long ago that HDTV gaming would look better than SDTV. That is obvious. What I am interested in is Next-Gen experiences.

 

[Lakitu]

I truly do not understand why someone who doesn't have an HDTV would want an Xbox 360.

Then they'll probably get very little sales if that's the case, in Europe for sure. Many households as it is has widescreen/normal tvs, HDTV should be bigger come around next year but as of now, no one I know has an HDTV and neither do I. I really don't make a big deal what I play my games on, but I just don't want my gaming experience to have a less of an impact coz it's just a normal TV. Well I'm glad I skipped out the Xbox 360 launch.

 

[Beer Monkey]

 

[Dave Long]

The most disconcerting thing about this HD stuff is that it's turning watching TV and playing console games into what approximates screwing around with computers. I'm sorry, but I get enough of that garbage with my PC and Windows XP. I really don't need to go through all this hassle to sit in front of the television to watch a movie or play some games with friends.

Nerds need to get back out of the living room.

 

[Danj]

Then they'll probably get very little sales if that's the case, in Europe for sure. Many households as it is has widescreen/normal tvs, HDTV should be bigger come around next year but as of now, no one I know has an HDTV and neither do I. I really don't make a big deal what I play my games on, but I just don't want my gaming experience to have a less of an impact coz it's just a normal TV. Well I'm glad I skipped out the Xbox 360 launch.

I concur. Although HDTVs are steadily becoming available over here in the UK, the installed HDTV user base is a far smaller percentage than it is in the US. I think Microsoft are making a mistake by launching the 360 here now, and while I normally hate the fact that companies delay European launches I think such a delay would actually benefit European 360 sales by allowing the HDTV user base to build up somewhat.

 

[deadhorse32]

Then they'll probably get very little sales if that's the case, in Europe for sure. Many households as it is has widescreen/normal tvs, HDTV should be bigger come around next year but as of now, no one I know has an HDTV and neither do I

Same thing here (Belgium), I know nobody with a HDTV. At this point, nobody care due to a lack of content. I really have the impression people are buying "flat" tv for the convenience and not for the increased resolution.

 

[P90]

I truly do not understand why someone who doesn't have an HDTV would want an Xbox 360.

Exclusive games on 360, or time-limited ones.

 

[jett]

Well isn't this expected? It's much harder to tell the difference (especially for casual gamers) between PGR2 and PGR3 on a normal TV. Besides, we've heard versions of this argument at the start of every generation. I remember some people saying even when the SNES came out that the graphical differences were hard to see unless you had a quality TV or if you connected the systems through the regular RF connection.

What are you, fucking insane? Even as a 10 year old kid the difference between NES and SNES was like night and day to me.

 

[Beer Monkey]

The most disconcerting thing about this HD stuff is that it's turning watching TV and playing console games into what approximates screwing around with computers.

Yes, just the other day I had to replace some device drivers and upgrade the RAM in my high-def cable box.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I only know a few people personally who have an HDTV, me included. But, I've always been an early adopter, or in this case, a semi-early adopter. I got a very nice 32" LCD HDTV for $850 a few months back.

While I do intend to hook up my X360 to the HDTV to check it out, and when I have friends over, it's more likely that I'll be playing it most of the time on my SDTV in the other room. While I won't get the resolutions I would on the HDTV, the next-gen systems will still deliver some nice graphical upgrades, such as more details in the larger environments, more characters on screen, smoother, faster animations, etc. It's not just about the resolutions, otherwise PC games would have stopped evolving some years ago as well.

 

[Error Macro]

I truly do not understand why someone who doesn't have an HDTV would want an Xbox 360.

HOLY JESUS

ARE YOU FOR REAL?

 

[Mifune]

I have no doubt that 360 games will look great on my non-HD TV. This "you NEED an HD set" business is just HD hype. Of course, the games will look better in HD, but anyone with half a brain knows that there's more to the 360 than better resolution.

 

[monkeyrun]

I dont understand this at all.

Gaming consoles still can't do 100 percent realistic graphics yet my TV can display DVD footage that looks close to real life.

Why shouldnt my TV be able to handle equally realistic game visuals?

because instead of trying to make things look realistic, they went for the making things high res path.

it's like , if the picture is big enough, the game might be magically gooder ....

 

[dammitmattt]

The most disconcerting thing about this HD stuff is that it's turning watching TV and playing console games into what approximates screwing around with computers. I'm sorry, but I get enough of that garbage with my PC and Windows XP. I really don't need to go through all this hassle to sit in front of the television to watch a movie or play some games with friends.

Nerds need to get back out of the living room.

I do not understand this post.

You configure your settings one time and then for the next five years it is plug and play. It was exactly the same with the PS2/Xbox/GC.

 

[urk]

It was exactly the same with the PS2/Xbox/GC.

You found a way to circumvent the need to adjust the audio and video settings for your game consoles each and every time you play? PLEASE SHARE THIS SECRET WITH ME!

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Just to follow up, I am using my non-HDTV in a 16:9 widescreen mode and the X360 looks amazing. Very pleased. So, don't worry if you still are.

 

[Matrix]

Just to follow up, I am using my non-HDTV in a 16:9 widescreen mode and the X360 looks amazing. Very pleased. So, don't worry if you still are.

Are you using a Sony with 16:9 enhanced mode?

 

[Udde]

I have seen the MGS4 standard resolution trailer in my "old" 32 CRT Panoramic TV and it looks TOTALLY NEXT-GEN. So, don't worry That's not the problem <3

 

[KarishBHR]

Well, I bought into the hype, and was very nervous not to have an HD... but I am here to say that the 360 looks incredible on my projector in normal 480i (with component cables though).

Really, 5-10 percent worse, I was expecting 40-50 percent worse

 

[Raiden]

Well, I bought into the hype, and was very nervous not to have an HD... but I am here to say that the 360 looks incredible on my projector in normal 480i (with component cables though).

Really, 5-10 percent worse, I was expecting 40-50 percent worse

Projectors seem to be awesome for 360's, cant wait to see what it gives on my 720p Sony HS 10.

 

[capslock]

What are you, fucking insane? Even as a 10 year old kid the difference between NES and SNES was like night and day to me.

Just reporting what was said in some mainstream media at the time, and just for shits and giggles, try comparing the latter day NES games like Batman: Return of the Joker and Super Mario 3 to the first gen of SNES titles, then it's not quite to so insane to think that a casual gamer might have trouble telling the graphical differences between those two generations, especially when played over an RF connection.

 

[borghe]

people are absolute idiots about HD. I have determined there are only about 5-7 people here on gaf who know what the fuck they are talking about.

the x360 will still look awesome on SD. the increase in poly count, the substantial shader increase, the frame rate stabilization to 60fps on more games, higher player counts in online games, more processing power for physics and setup engines, etc.

to put it simply, there is a bigger difference going from SD xbox -> SD xbox360 than there is going from 480p xbox360 -> 720p/1080i xbox360. resolution isn't everything, and is actually minor when taking into account all of the extra graphical capabilities of the 360 over the 1.

 

[yacobod]

the tv in my bedroom is (480p/1080i)

will i be good to go?

 

[Guileless]

I have a 32'' Sony WEGA Trinitron that I got way back in 2002 that I still love. My question to the GAF HDTV braintrust is how much better would a 360 look on a solid, mid-tier HDTV compared to how it would look with component cables on my SDTV WEGA with 16:9 enhanced on?

Does the difference justify spending $1k on an HDTV? I live in the sticks and can't get much HD programming, so the HD features would be almost exclusively for gaming.

 

[StRaNgE]

good question.

i just hooked mine up last night to my sony 61 inch projection TV that is at least 4 years or so old with component cables that came with it.

should i shell out some cash for a plasma that is less then half the size .
so far the graphics are ok, but not as much a difference as i had hoped.
the controller really does feel good though.

also any tech guy know if when hooking up component should i leave the yellow video wire unplugged even though there are 6 inputs grouped for video3 on the tv?

the little insert card shows the yellow being left unplugged but it also only has 5 inputs not 6 ?

 

[koam]

The red and white are for sound.
The red blue green are for component video.
Yellow is regular RCA video.

So basically, if you have component inputs, you plug in R/W and R/B/G
If you have a regular TV, you plug in R/W and Y.

Depending on how the TV handles the input, some will use R/B/G if R/G/B and Y are plugged in and some will use Y even if R/G/B are plugged in. I'd remove the Y just to be safe.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824222010

My monitor is old/suck-ass so I just ordered this new one. I decided to go with it 'cos (after I bought that $20 WiFi router on clearance) I didn't need a new PC for the Nintendongle. It's a flat panel LCD, widescreen, I believe it's got pretty good resolution and while it's not huge (15") I think it'll be cool for single player stuff with Revolution once it releases!

I know it's not name brand, but don't you think it's a nice monitor for my PC & gaming?

 

[TTP]

the frame rate stabilization to 60fps on more games

What? Care to elaborate on this? You mean like 30fps HDTV games running at 60fps on a SDTV? (EDIT: Or maybe you just ment that HDTV or not, games are going to look better thanks to all the stuff you mentioned plus a supposed frame rate stabilization to 60fps - which is not the case at the moment among Xbox 360 launch titles).

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Resolution alone doesn't do anything for the beliveability of the graphics. You can render very impressive pictures @ 512x512 (if AA is applied that is).
A lot of the manufacturingcosts of the 360 goes towards having the higher resolution (which isn't even full 720, seing as some of (if not all) launch-games run at lower res. and then upscale, without AA (PGR3)).

so wait wait wait right there my fine poster you mean to tell me that most the launch games arent even running at 720p but running at 480p and just being upscaled

wtf kind of HD era is MS ushering in the Bullshit one

I mean everyone is giving Nintendo flack for the revolution just supporting 480p and honestly you could get the same picture from the rev by sending the signal through a video processor with a good upscale converter

fucking lame

 

[TTP]

No. He is referring to some games rendering at 600p (not 480p) rather than 720p (like PGR3)

 

[DrGAKMAN]

so wait wait wait right there my fine poster you mean to tell me that most the launch games arent even running at 720p but running at 480p and just being upscaled

wtf kind of HD era is MS ushering in the Bullshit one

I mean everyone is giving Nintendo flack for the revolution just supporting 480p and honestly you could get the same picture from the rev by sending the signal through a video processor with a good upscale converter

fucking lame

X-BOX 360's "HD-ERA":
-premier titles running at 480p
-some others only upscaled to 720p
-no HD cables out of the box
-what about HDMI?
-even less HD support for PAL versions

 

[borghe]

What? Care to elaborate on this? You mean like 30fps HDTV games running at 60fps on a SDTV? (EDIT: Or maybe you just ment that HDTV or not, games are going to look better thanks to all the stuff you mentioned plus a supposed frame rate stabilization to 60fps - which is not the case at the moment among Xbox 360 launch titles).

I mean MORE games running at a solid 60fps compared to last gen. not all games.

 

[TTP]

I mean MORE games running at a solid 60fps compared to last gen. not all games.

Ah ok. Well, let's hope so. The Gears of Wars guys sure dont care about 60fps

 

[StRaNgE]

The red and white are for sound.
The red blue green are for component video.
Yellow is regular RCA video.

So basically, if you have component inputs, you plug in R/W and R/B/G
If you have a regular TV, you plug in R/W and Y.

Depending on how the TV handles the input, some will use R/B/G if R/G/B and Y are plugged in and some will use Y even if R/G/B are plugged in. I'd remove the Y just to be safe.

Thank you.

Funny thing is if i turn the switch to HD then the picture comes up split in two as if it's off line and the edges are centered and it wraps around.

that pretty much confirms my TV is older then HDTV.

 

[Swat]

Funny thing happened. When I got home from the Midnight launch (around 4am) I was pretty beat when I setup the 360. I was having a great time, loving the graphics, but it was late and I was wiped so I went to bed shortly after.

Woke up the next morning and started poking around the back of the console. That's when I found the HD switch on the cable. Oops

Needless to say, I thought it looked great in standard resolution. I flipped the switch and got the extra HD sharpness, and it made everything a fair bit "clearer", but the graphics still looked great in both modes.

I went back a couple days later and played some Halo 2 upscaled to 720p. I hadn't played the 360 all that long and I noticed how great a jump was in visual quality from Xbox -> 360.

X360 HD >>>>> X360 SD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Xbox

I notice there's a lot of people complaining about advancing technology. What exactly is wrong with that? If we rewound back to the late 70's and early 80's would we hear complaints about how expensive cassette tape and cd players were compared to 8 track and vinyl?

Technology changes as time moves on. Some people can't afford it, and some can. Eventually it drops to a price when everyone can, and it is up to YOU to decide whether or not the additional clarity and advancement makes YOU feel great. Or you can sit in your dusty basement with your LP's and argue for hours on internet forums about how vinyl is the superior format, and how the death of betamax was unwarranted.

 

[Ryck]

I wowed my family on Thanksgiving day on my brothers 12 year old 19" tv ( composite). Shit even i was surprised how good it looked after over hearing all the scum at game stores talk about how you can only see the difference on an Hdtv.