Nytimes said:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/25/us/chicago-shootings-gun-violence.html
Chicagogaf? Can you comment? Are you even alive?
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So what is really going on in Chicago, gaf?
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http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/25/us/chicago-shootings-gun-violence.html
Chicagogaf? Can you comment? Are you even alive?
Gray Matter
Member
This is fucking depressing. I don't understand this, at all.
Generalpsyduck
Banned
This happens all the time on holidays in chicago. Its depressing.
John Kowalski
Banned
Stay safe Chicago.
God Dayumm
Banned
It's the heat
I really shouldn't have laughed at this.
Leeroy3101
Banned
Gang issues. Issues that could get solved with meaningful poverty reform, civil rights legislation, police reform, an upending of the public school system in American inner-cities, etc.
Neither side really wants to touch it. Bernie gave it lip service, and Clinton's legacy rests in super predator land. Last person who took a good look at these issues, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., got assassinated when he tried launching a wealth redistribution campaign.
Neither side really wants to touch it. Bernie gave it lip service, and Clinton's legacy rests in super predator land. Last person who took a good look at these issues, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., got assassinated when he tried launching a wealth redistribution campaign.
eddievanclaylen
Member
Its the teenage gang kids talking shit to each other on facebook and twitter. No joke.
Thier neighborhoods are small and everyone knows everyone but they have to retaliate to some fool dissin them online or theyre a bitch.
Its mostly this.
Thier neighborhoods are small and everyone knows everyone but they have to retaliate to some fool dissin them online or theyre a bitch.
Its mostly this.
Syphon Filter
Member
Its been bad over there for a while now actually.
Thanks for this.
So basically:
Lack of education. Lack of jobs. Which meant a lack of $$$. So it is either sell drugs or or be poor. Depressing.
I moved out of Chicago in 2010, because of the amount of gun violence happening at the time, and it has only gotten worse since then. My family has been trying to convince my brother to move to NYC with his wife and newborn daughter, because he lives just blocks away from an area of heavy activity on the west side. It's really scary.
Ninja Scooter
Member
institutional and systemic racism is happening.
BoosterDuck
Banned
gang violence
but the charts still write the 70's-90's as the craziest years for homicides in Chicago
Someone needs to take charge to put a curb on the violence, whether it be the police, the mayors, the businessmen, etc.
but the charts still write the 70's-90's as the craziest years for homicides in Chicago
Someone needs to take charge to put a curb on the violence, whether it be the police, the mayors, the businessmen, etc.
GravityInsanity
Member
Syphon Filter
Member
Yea that is what I am wondering, is anyone actually doing anything to solve this problem?
Of course, this issue will keep getting ignored.
tearsintherain
Member
The backlash against cops the last few years (cops shooting innocent black people) allegedly has caused many departments to scale back on a lot of what cops call "broken windows policing" - doing things to prevent crimes before they ever happen, including stuff like stop and frisk. Chicago and Baltimore are two big examples of this, with stop and frisk dropping 80% in Chicago from 2015 to 2016 due to ACLU challenges and new city directives on more documentation for any stopping of civilians.
On the other hand New York City halted stop and frisk a few years ago after a new democratic mayor got elected and has NOT had any statistical uptick of violence.
So its hard to say why homicides are up so much more in some of these cities and not others. Some people will say easy access to guns, but I'm not sure how you could argue its much easier to buy a (probably illegal) gun in city X than city Y. Why would gangs in Chicago be much more violent and territorial than in LA or NYC? Are the cops in the different cities pursuing radically different policing tactics?
Many would argue its because poverty is much, much more concentrated in Chicago than in other cities, and the bulk of the violence is occuring in the extremely poor areas of town.
http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/07/why-is-new-york-so-much-safer-than-chicago.html
On the other hand New York City halted stop and frisk a few years ago after a new democratic mayor got elected and has NOT had any statistical uptick of violence.
So its hard to say why homicides are up so much more in some of these cities and not others. Some people will say easy access to guns, but I'm not sure how you could argue its much easier to buy a (probably illegal) gun in city X than city Y. Why would gangs in Chicago be much more violent and territorial than in LA or NYC? Are the cops in the different cities pursuing radically different policing tactics?
Many would argue its because poverty is much, much more concentrated in Chicago than in other cities, and the bulk of the violence is occuring in the extremely poor areas of town.
http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/07/why-is-new-york-so-much-safer-than-chicago.html
article said:
Biff
Member
At this stage though, with the violence being this bad, what could the institution do if it was willing to step in?
Militarize the police, triple their presence, stop and frisk, broken windows, zero tolerance sentencing?
I'm not being tongue-in-cheek naming extreme tactics that are often cited as the cornerstones of institutional racism. I'm seriously suggesting it has gotten so bad that how do you solve it without extreme policing?
Naked Snake
Member
isthisreallife.mp4
Leeroy3101
Banned
You start with massive poverty reform (job programs, extreme overhaul of inner-city schools, adult education opportunities, etc.), get rid of an extreme adversarial dynamic, ecouraging community involvement with citizens and elected officials, better law enforcement relations, and sooo much more.
Look at what Dr. King tried to do before he got assassinated. We need more stuff like that.
Why is the violence happening? Many, myself included, think the systemic poverty in these areas causes most of the issues. If kids don't have to worry about their livelihood all day, they probably won't resort to violence to get by. My biggest issues in my teens were will my mom get mad at me for playing Xbox all day. I didn't need to provide anything for my family, we had no threat of eviction, my dad didn't have trouble putting food on the table, etc. If you don't have this kind of extreme poverty, maybe these kids wouldn't have to resort to crime to make sure their families survive.
Now obviously this is never going to change/be fixed. White people go to the poll every time and say they don't give a fuck about the problems facing black America. The best solution the country could come up with was Donald Trump bringing back "law and order" because obviously police going into violent areas and escalating the violence is a great solution. If your solution to "eradicate crime" is to eradicate criminals as opposed to eradicating the causes of crime, you will never solve the problem. Instead you will breed future generations with contempt for the police, the government, and white America. But it goes much deeper than that. Black people have never been given a fair or even close to equal starting point that whites enjoy in this country. White people know this, yet they'll tell you straight up that the plights of black Americans is their own problem and their own fault (which is hard to type because all you have to do is look at American history to know how absurd this belief is).
And if it wasn't clear, no matter how much lip servicing anyone does, White people as a collective group in America has said from day one that they don't give a fuck about black people. This really hasn't changed. That's why the fallback for white America is that slavery ended ~150 years ago and the problems facing black America are their own. They don't see black people as Americans, another root of the problem.
Mammoth Jones
Member
https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/us/chicago-gang-violence.amp.html
If your most promising option to earn money is to participate in the game then it will continue.
Need prison reform instead of locking fathers up for nonviolent drug bullshit. My friend a great guy. Never violent. He didn't even wanna shoot my guns at the range he just ain't bout that shit.
He bout to do time for selling. Got a 2 year old son. 5 year old daughter. He did it cause he couldn't find a job after airline let him go.
Now if little man growing up without a father and a mother struggling in the wrong neighborhood dude might turn to a gang as some surrogate family. It's fucked up.
Take away opportunities and you'll be shocked what people willing to do.
If your most promising option to earn money is to participate in the game then it will continue.
Need prison reform instead of locking fathers up for nonviolent drug bullshit. My friend a great guy. Never violent. He didn't even wanna shoot my guns at the range he just ain't bout that shit.
He bout to do time for selling. Got a 2 year old son. 5 year old daughter. He did it cause he couldn't find a job after airline let him go.
Now if little man growing up without a father and a mother struggling in the wrong neighborhood dude might turn to a gang as some surrogate family. It's fucked up.
Take away opportunities and you'll be shocked what people willing to do.
Forerunner
Member
Its mostly gang violence and under developed areas. The city is still extremely divided. The problem is nobody really cares about those areas.
theepicoftyler
Member
Poverty, segregation, conflicting interests, easy access to guns. It's a complex problem with no clear solutions. It's largely confined to parts of the city that are not where tourists or wealthy people are so the city government finds it fit to ignore.
It's not a good situation.
It's not a good situation.
Frozenprince
Banned
Police are too busy guarding the suburbs and busting corner men to deal with the gang war.
They consider it too much of a hassle for not enough benefit (read: rich white people get nothing from it dying down).
Welcome to the wonders of our justice system. Where the East on drugs we've waged for the last fifty years never actually deals with the consequence of itself. We've created an economy of illegality where the only way for a young black or latin man in poverty to uplift himself is to spit on a corner and affiliate or risk getting mobbed/killed.
These are 15-20 year old kids who have nowhere else to go and no other avenue to uplift themselves from crippling poverty and stagnation.
This is the real America.
And it'll just be ignored cause we got white people in Nebraska to court.
They consider it too much of a hassle for not enough benefit (read: rich white people get nothing from it dying down).
Welcome to the wonders of our justice system. Where the East on drugs we've waged for the last fifty years never actually deals with the consequence of itself. We've created an economy of illegality where the only way for a young black or latin man in poverty to uplift himself is to spit on a corner and affiliate or risk getting mobbed/killed.
These are 15-20 year old kids who have nowhere else to go and no other avenue to uplift themselves from crippling poverty and stagnation.
This is the real America.
And it'll just be ignored cause we got white people in Nebraska to court.
Why would Chicago Police be guarding the suburbs that have their own police forces? Most Police in Chicago are placed in the most crime filled neighborhoods. As the Superintended himself stated recently, "we can't Rob peter to pay Paul..." when the nicer neighborhoods complained that the police manpower in their districts was down to combat crime in other neighborhoods, leading to a hiring push.
Anyways, it's complex issue. The shooters are getting younger and younger and most shootings are over Facebook, Twitter posts, and social media rather than drugs. You have kids from the same gang shooting each other over petty arguments. And some conflicts that stem from years of conflict, not about territory or drugs. There are rival gangs that have been killing each other just cause they hate each other.
Yeah only for like 40 years.... 2016 has been rough though for sure. It's not immediately preventable in any constitutional way though so w/e..
This.
I live in the suburbs but all my friends who live downtown say the exact same thing. The south side is a war zone that only gets worse with unseasonably warm weather.
J
JeremyEtcetera
Unconfirmed Member
North Chicago and South Chicago might as well be the difference between two states.
However, those maps are showing that the violence is slowly spreading north and it's only a matter of time before things get bad enough on the northern areas.
I'd rather not have Chicago be the next, worse Detroit.
However, those maps are showing that the violence is slowly spreading north and it's only a matter of time before things get bad enough on the northern areas.
I'd rather not have Chicago be the next, worse Detroit.
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
Very good post, thank you. Interesting points too about concentration of poverty over a relatively small spatial area.
whitemex88
Member
I grew up in the Humboldt park neighborhood where there were shootings on a nightly basis. I feel lucky to have gotten out of there 15 years ago. I lost a grade school friend to a shooting 7 years ago. Another friend lost his brother to a shooting. A family friend who was a community activist lost his son to a shooting. Living now in Brookfield really makes me feel lucky as fuck to be out of that hell hole.
Although funny enough earlier this year some idiot shot at someone at the park by my house and also, a guy was murdered in front of his home a few blocks away from me for testifying against someone
Although funny enough earlier this year some idiot shot at someone at the park by my house and also, a guy was murdered in front of his home a few blocks away from me for testifying against someone
Lots of money/ economic opportunities can fix the problem real quick. People don't join gangs because it's cool. They do it because it's viable economic option. Even if it puts their lives at risk.
Gotta spend billions on war planes we don't use and ships that shoot 1m dollar bullets tho
Broken windows policing has been picked apart a lot. Even one (or both?) of the original authors regrets helping popularize the theory given the contradictory findings over the last decade or two, and using it as a basis for terrible shit like stop and frisk.
I live in Chicago on the north side and I feel completely safe (north center).
The vast majority of homicides in Chicago occour in a small amount of neighborhoods. That, no doubt, is a massive problem that is not getting the attention it desperately deserves, but in most areas, Chicago is not particularly violent.
The vast majority of homicides in Chicago occour in a small amount of neighborhoods. That, no doubt, is a massive problem that is not getting the attention it desperately deserves, but in most areas, Chicago is not particularly violent.
Detroit was a one-trick pony. Chicago's business economy is diverse. Our country would have to be in hell for us to go down like Detroit did.
Btw, violence isn't really 'spreading north' either. Neighborhood demographics on the north side haven't changed, the violence and crime comes and goes in the same ol neighborhoods.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
The solution is going to lag the problem by at least a generation. The people in gangs killing each other over dumb shit right now don't even have the education to take advantage of economic opportunities like building war planes. And they have no desire to get one.
How does the lack of white people lead to minorities shooting each other?
This is gang violence and a culture of gang warfare.
Garrett 2U
Member
Adults in poverty stricken areas work hard for less money to barely make ends meet, occasionally turning alcohol/smoking/drugs to deal with the stress.
Local schools receive less money and are able to hire less instructors, offering less assistance and growth opportunity to kids.
Kids see their parents working their butts off for limited compensation, see no different future for themselves; they get involved in gangs for status and wealth.
The wealthy view these people as uneducated, violent, drug addicted communities with no hope for improvement.
The public funding system keeps the status quo and offers little hope and opportunity for young adults to escape.
The current environment offers little incentive for new business and people to move into those communities.
to;dr watch The Wire (not about Chicago, but similar circumstance)
Local schools receive less money and are able to hire less instructors, offering less assistance and growth opportunity to kids.
Kids see their parents working their butts off for limited compensation, see no different future for themselves; they get involved in gangs for status and wealth.
The wealthy view these people as uneducated, violent, drug addicted communities with no hope for improvement.
The public funding system keeps the status quo and offers little hope and opportunity for young adults to escape.
The current environment offers little incentive for new business and people to move into those communities.
to;dr watch The Wire (not about Chicago, but similar circumstance)
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