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So what is really going on in Chicago, gaf?
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Telosfortelos
Advocate for the People
This American Life had a great two part episode about gang life in Chicago:
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/487/harper-high-school-part-one
In my mind, this is the most important domestic issue facing America, and it bothers me to no end how little we talk about it. There's no more important challenge than figuring out how to get these children to believe this shit is evil and that they have an opportunity outside of this kind of life.
But we don't talk about it. It'll get a couple of minutes of time on CNN today, then it'll be forgotten. It won't be in our facebook feeds beyond today. This thread will have two or three pages. We can't tackle this until we care. In the words of Chance the Rapper's Paranoia: Where the fuck is Matt Lauer at? Somebody get Katie Couric in here
Unfortunately, this is a bit of an oversimplification. Poverty, segregation, poor education, and a lack of opportunities fostered the conditions that sparked the cycle, but it's terrifyingly engrained now. Today, gangs aren't as much about making money as they are about identity, community, and a sick way of life. My brother never worried about food, housing, or entertainment, but a combination of early childhood trauma, a poor self image, and hanging out with the wrong crowd resulted in him identifying as a wanna be local crip and getting a gun in his early teenage years. And Chicago is ten thousand times worse than what he grew up knowing. People want friendship and socialization. They need to be able to get out of their houses and hang out. But when everyone in your neighborhood takes on a culture of extreme violent aggression, territorial defense, and a general gang-life persona, your only option to socialize is to join in. You're not going to report these people to the cops for violence - they're your family and friends. They're your uncles and cousins. They're your brothers and sisters. They're your dad.
Fixing the economies of these communities has to be a part of the solution, but that requires fixing the education and culture. They're deeply intertwined problems. I think integration has to be a big part of the solution. I'm very pro bussing.
https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/64961/OSLJ_V59N3_0733.pdf
http://qje.oxfordjournals.org/content/129/1/435.abstract
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-desegregation-and-resegregation-of-charlottes-schools
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/562/the-problem-we-all-live-with
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/487/harper-high-school-part-one
In my mind, this is the most important domestic issue facing America, and it bothers me to no end how little we talk about it. There's no more important challenge than figuring out how to get these children to believe this shit is evil and that they have an opportunity outside of this kind of life.
But we don't talk about it. It'll get a couple of minutes of time on CNN today, then it'll be forgotten. It won't be in our facebook feeds beyond today. This thread will have two or three pages. We can't tackle this until we care. In the words of Chance the Rapper's Paranoia: Where the fuck is Matt Lauer at? Somebody get Katie Couric in here
Unfortunately, this is a bit of an oversimplification. Poverty, segregation, poor education, and a lack of opportunities fostered the conditions that sparked the cycle, but it's terrifyingly engrained now. Today, gangs aren't as much about making money as they are about identity, community, and a sick way of life. My brother never worried about food, housing, or entertainment, but a combination of early childhood trauma, a poor self image, and hanging out with the wrong crowd resulted in him identifying as a wanna be local crip and getting a gun in his early teenage years. And Chicago is ten thousand times worse than what he grew up knowing. People want friendship and socialization. They need to be able to get out of their houses and hang out. But when everyone in your neighborhood takes on a culture of extreme violent aggression, territorial defense, and a general gang-life persona, your only option to socialize is to join in. You're not going to report these people to the cops for violence - they're your family and friends. They're your uncles and cousins. They're your brothers and sisters. They're your dad.
Fixing the economies of these communities has to be a part of the solution, but that requires fixing the education and culture. They're deeply intertwined problems. I think integration has to be a big part of the solution. I'm very pro bussing.
https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/64961/OSLJ_V59N3_0733.pdf
http://qje.oxfordjournals.org/content/129/1/435.abstract
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-desegregation-and-resegregation-of-charlottes-schools
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/562/the-problem-we-all-live-with
Ninja Scooter
Member
Don't forget how so many of these families are broken up due to our broken as fuck justice system. People like to ask "Why don't these kids have parental/father figures in their lives?" It's because you put their fathers in prison over petty drug charges.
And why doesn't he? I don't understand people who decide to live in shitholes.
Some very well-thought analysis in this topic. What's sad and disappointing is that this has been a very visible and horrible problem for a long time now. This is stretching along generations and the hope for stifling this cycle of poverty and violence just isn't happening. Education, opportunity, empathy. These things are sadly in short supply.
Last Chance High was also a pretty good series from a few years back looking at what some of these kids go through. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-B_kmAebbQ
Last Chance High was also a pretty good series from a few years back looking at what some of these kids go through. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-B_kmAebbQ
Could it be because the people living in the worst conditions often don't have the resources to move? Just maybe???????????
Frozenprince
Banned
You act like people have a choice.
You can live in a nice place in Humbolt Park and only be a few blocks away from crazy shit. This is true about a few areas on the south side too. Chicago is weird. It's hard to stereotype a neighborhood unless it's Lincoln Park or Garfield Park, etc
Cap'n Cook
Member
There's the root causes which everyone in this thread is going on about, and they need to be addressed, but the immediate action you can take to save lives is to increase police numbers and presence (both officer and detective numbers have dropped considerably in the last ten years) and improve clearance rates, which are pretty appalling at 20% for homicide.
Yeah its real. That was New Years Eve last year I believe.
Wuthering_Heights
Banned
We need to get Rudy Giuliani in there to clean the place up.
Basketball
Member
scum of the earth run the streets
Chicago is definitely one of the most segregated cities I have ever been to.
The North, South, West, and downtown areas are completely different places. It's almost unreal.
BadenBadenLily
Banned
The gun violence and crime is one of the bigger reasons why I'd rather move to Minneapolis after I finish undergrad than Chicago.
Frozenprince
Banned
Clearance rates across the country are appalling. 65% last I checked.
You need to end the East on drugs before the police force can even begin to be fixed.
Minneapolis is not without its problems, but it is definitely a place where you can start (or start over) and lead a healthy life.
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
Yeah it seems like it's really to the point that they need some typical regressive policy of semi-militarized police enforcement while also developing a long term progressive plan to actually resolve the underlying economic and social issues which may take a decade or more.
I guess, at the heart of it all, it's going to take a sustained and defined long term effort with an enormous amount of money to clean it all up. I'm not sure if I see the wealthier parts really being all that interested in spending their tax dollars in the amount required like that. It's the kind of thing that will require spending at a national level and that's not happening anytime soon.
tfur
Member
Yeah, it's sad, It is the regular Chicago corruption since forever.
Democrat Mayor since the 1930's. 48 of 50 city council seats are Democrats, and have been in the majority since the 90;s. The state legislators are also majority Democrats since the 90s. There has been a 50/50 Democrat/Republican governor since the 1930;s.
They are all corrupt, and have been forever. If you want to blame anyone, blame those in power for many decades.
This kind of racist stuff is one reason why nothing moves forward.
Frozenprince
Banned
I have no misconception that if/when the south side is finally made inhabitable again, it will be because of gentrification making cost of living untenable for the people that stuck it out despite it being a literal war zone. And they'll all be segregated even farther where the gang wars will continue.
Basically just a repeat of Brooklyn but on a larger scale.
I truly will weep for them.
Basically just a repeat of Brooklyn but on a larger scale.
I truly will weep for them.
BadenBadenLily
Banned
I just want to get out of my home state, but still want to stay in the Midwest. So I was mostly looking at Minny, KC, and Chicago.
cj_iwakura
Member
And here I am planning on going there in late January for a tournament...
Host Samurai
Member
Chicago needs Max Headroom.
Haha. My favorite little obscure piece of history about this city. Hacking the airwaves..
Ninja Scooter
Member
A majority of the city is i imagine just fine for travel. It's like when tourists go to Los Angeles is not like they are traveling to the projects of Watts.
Shalashaska
Member
745 and it isn't even the end of the year.
Number of homicides in Canada from 2011 - 2015
Population of Chicago ~2.8 million
Population of Canada ~33 million
Blows my mind.
cj_iwakura
Member
I was told to just avoid the south side area. Is that accurate?
Frozenprince
Banned
Yes, avoid the south side and some of the west side and you'll be fine.
Blows my mind that people are scared to visit Chicago. There is literally NOTHING to do on the south and west sides of the city. That's the way it's always been. Even when it was mostly white there was nothing to do in these areas. People always flocked up north to downtown and surrounding areas for any excitement. There aren't going to be any video game tournaments in Englewood.
cj_iwakura
Member
West side? The tournament is in Elmhurst, isn't that near there?
Ash Sparrow
Banned
This is just my controversial take, Where to start
Poverty, The lack of investment in some neighborhoods is insane.
Crooked Politicians, I believe people in high places are benefitting from the drug market in certain neighborhoods, its thought that some of the politicians are gang affiliated. If you clean it up who going to deal the drugs coming in from Mexico.
The media helped paint a picture that all the people in certain neighborhoods are bad, animals, but the truth is the opposite, most are hardworking good people besieged by a small group that causes most of the problems, are not rehabilitated and have been to jail so many times they don't have many options.
When they split drug and gang infested Cabrini Green housing project up, the people were given vouchers to live only on the west side and southside, mainly, so that oversaturated already struggling neighborhoods with more drug violence.
People hate this, but not enough accountability by parents in these neighborhoods.
Police only solving like 24 percent of crimes
Solutions I think would help
Record cleaning
Investment
Legalization of weed
Rehabilitation vs imprisonment
The revolving door of gun crime criminals need to close. There has to be steep rehabilitation, versus just putting these guys back on the street.
Poverty, The lack of investment in some neighborhoods is insane.
Crooked Politicians, I believe people in high places are benefitting from the drug market in certain neighborhoods, its thought that some of the politicians are gang affiliated. If you clean it up who going to deal the drugs coming in from Mexico.
The media helped paint a picture that all the people in certain neighborhoods are bad, animals, but the truth is the opposite, most are hardworking good people besieged by a small group that causes most of the problems, are not rehabilitated and have been to jail so many times they don't have many options.
When they split drug and gang infested Cabrini Green housing project up, the people were given vouchers to live only on the west side and southside, mainly, so that oversaturated already struggling neighborhoods with more drug violence.
People hate this, but not enough accountability by parents in these neighborhoods.
Police only solving like 24 percent of crimes
Solutions I think would help
Record cleaning
Investment
Legalization of weed
Rehabilitation vs imprisonment
The revolving door of gun crime criminals need to close. There has to be steep rehabilitation, versus just putting these guys back on the street.
reggieandTFE
Member
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but the Chicago police department already currently has a secret black site (Homan) where they violate civil liberties and from the early 80s to mid-90s (when the murder rate was much higher than now) it used systemic torture to elicit false confessions. More fascism is not the answer.
Elmhurst is in the burbs. And anyways, random tourists don't get hassled. Almost all violence is directed at gang members. My wife has worked in North Lawndale and then Englewood for the last five years and has never been hassled.
cj_iwakura
Member
Appreciate the info. I'm from South Florida, so I'm used to cities, just want to make sure I don't inadvertently wander into any war zones.
Lan Dong Mik
And why would I want them?
Christ. I don't even hear dogs barking. They must be used to the sound of gunfire. So fucked up.
hodayathink
Member
If so, then that's a relatively special case, since on NYE people like to shoot their guns into the air to celebrate (which is why, when I still lived in the city, we stayed on the first floor of the house that night, and occasionally slept on the floor instead of our beds).
franknbeans
Member
I'm seriously afraid to visit chicago. Knowing my luck, I'll walk down the wrong street and happen to cross paths with someone who mistakes me for the opp.
You have a couple thousand people causing all of this. But there's no good way to prevent it short of shipping kids out of those neighborhoods and increasing police presence to extraordinary levels, both of which would be extremely controversial.
This isn't just a money and/or white people dont care issue.
(I'm not trying to talk about how we got here, talking about how to fix in 2016)
This isn't just a money and/or white people dont care issue.
(I'm not trying to talk about how we got here, talking about how to fix in 2016)
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
I remember that. They never did find out who hacked the airwaves.
Just like most metro areas, there are areas that are fine and areas that you stay away from. It isn't anything to fear.
RastaMentality
Banned
This mindset allows people to handwave segregation and real systemic issues. "If it's so bad, why not move?" isn't a good answer.
aspaceman55
Member
hah. Elmhurst isn't in Chicago. It's just a white suburb. You'll be perfectly fine.
cj_iwakura
Member
Well, I'd also like to see the city since I'm going out there. I'd just like to avoid getting shot.
hodayathink
Member
Well, I'd also like to see the city since I'm going out there. I'd just like to avoid getting shot.
As has been stated, you'd have no reason to go to these neighborhoods. There's nothing to see there. No landmarks, no museums, nothing. And outside of said neighborhoods, Chicago is a pretty safe city.
cj_iwakura
Member
Is it easy to navigate? Might be worth a separate thread, but I don't know much about what's worth checking out.
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