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[Willco]

The thing is that not everyone needs, or necessarily wants, the extras. If someone wants something that *just* plays their music - and does it well - that's all that will matter to them. It's the same reasoning behind the bigger iPods. They don't have line-ins, FM tuners, FM recorders, or microphones built into the unit, but given the sales of the device, it should be readily apparent to anyone that the market just doesn't care.

The point is, they have standard issue screens and FM tuners, which are pretty much standard in flash-based players these days.

The regular iPods sell because they have a great, simple interface and easy software in iTunes. And they're good machines. You get more features with some companies, but there's not a machine that's been as easy to navigate and use.

However, this is different. There are other flash-based players that have better interfaces and are easier to use. iRiver and Creative are already masters at this.

A player without a screen is stupid. Why do you think the other manufacturers stopped making blind flash sticks for the most part awhile ago?

 

[Ghost]

my screenless MP3 player is much better

 

[xsarien]

The point is, they have standard issue screens and FM tuners, which are pretty much standard in flash-based players these days.

And a pretty reasonable argument could be made that they're standard in HDD-based players as well. Pretty reasonable, anyway. Creative lets you do it on the Zen Touch with the optional remote, and iRiver, bless their nerdy, design-challenged hearts, would probably stuff a coffee maker into their devices if they could just find filters small enough.

The regular iPods sell because they have a great, simple interface and easy software in iTunes. And they're good machines. You get more features with some companies, but there's not a machine that's been as easy to navigate and use.

I agree whole-heartedly. If people have been screaming for more features, we would've seen it in the 4G firmware. So far, all we've got is the ability to view pictures, and something as obvious as an iPod's ability to talk to iPhoto probably came from Jobs, not the market research. "My music, all of it," combined with the iPod's design only compliment the usability, which put it over the top.

However, this is different. There are other flash-based players that have better interfaces and are easier to use. iRiver and Creative are already masters at this.

Speaking strictly from the point of view of UI design 101, the lack of a screen raises eyebrows. I think, as a concept, the iPod Shuffle is kind of radical. Apple's basically forcing people to listen to their music in shuffle mode - despite the switch - because anything else would make them want to glance down at a screen. Shuffle mode effectively makes them give up, because it doesn't matter. They don't know what's next anyway.

Whether people respond positively or negatively (I think we all know where you stand) remains to be seen. I think, regardless of which direction it goes, Apple's made a very large focus group out of consumers that UI designers from electronic devices to the web should appreciate.

A player without a screen is stupid. Why do you think the other manufacturers stopped making blind flash sticks for the most part awhile ago?

They don't think different.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Cheapest AAC support
very very small (probably half the volume of similarly priced players)
under $100


Yeah, no screen sucks for some, but to say there's no market for this is quite stupid.

Or, I can see if they put a screen on it, and it was a little larger and a little more expensive as a result, people would be saying "Nothing new here-- huge mistake-- it sucks!"

 

[shantyman]

I think the funniest thing being said is that Apple is hyping shuffling to cover up the shortcoming of the design. Whether you like it or not (and it's fine if you don't!), Apple designed it that way on purpose. For God's sake, It's not like they have a machine that randomly designs their products and they base the marketing around that.

Jonathan Ives: "Oh shit, it doens't have a screen, what will we do???"

Steve Jobs: "I know, we'll trick the consumer into thinking shuffling is the new cool thing!

Also, Apple never tried to act like shuffling was an innovation, they just designed their product around it. Whether that was a bad idea remains to be seen.

 

[SSGMUN10000]

Cant freakin believe it, no lcd screen. I cant believe people are going to buy this but they will in masses...its apple of course.

 

[Willco]

Cheapest AAC support

... Amazing!

very very small (probably half the volume of similarly priced players)

No, not really.

under $100

Yeah, I found comparable models with screens for under $100. And that's not including the Creative MuVo TX which can be had at $108 with FM tuner, FM recording, line out, etc.

Yeah, no screen sucks for some, but to say there's no market for this is quite stupid.

I never said there is no market. I said the market already exists and is being done better by other manufactuerers.

Or, I can see if they put a screen on it, and it was a little larger and a little more expensive as a result, people would be saying "Nothing new here-- huge mistake-- it sucks!"

The fact is, models of similar size and capacity have screens and other features for the same price or lower. This is a ripoff. No excuses!

I think the funniest thing being said is that Apple is hyping shuffling to cover up the shortcoming of the design. Whether you like it or not (and it's fine if you don't!), Apple designed it that way on purpose. For God's sake, It's not like they have a machine that randomly designs their products and they base the marketing around that.

Oh, I'm not saying they randomly designed it. Apple just took out the screen in an effort to put the price at $100 and make a large profit. They're very stupid cost-cutting measures. And they are spinning Shuffle to cover up the shortcoming of the design, so that the consumer thinks there's no need for a screen. Don't be naive.

Also, Apple never tried to act like shuffling was an innovation, they just designed their product around it. Whether that was a bad idea remains to be seen.

Wrong again! From their press release:

Apple® today introduced iPod® shuffle, a breakthrough digital music player based on iPod's legendary shuffle feature which lets users experience their music in a million different ways.

iPod shuffle is based on iPod's pioneering and widely-used shuffle feature, which randomly selects songs...

:lol

 

[xsarien]

I think the funniest thing being said is that Apple is hyping shuffling to cover up the shortcoming of the design. Whether you like it or not (and it's fine if you don't!), Apple designed it that way on purpose. For God's sake, It's not like they have a machine that randomly designs their products and they base the marketing around that.

You say that, but no human would've deliberately invented the hockey puck mice that came with the original iMac.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Wilco, where's the comprably small 512MB flash player that's also a mem stick, under $100, and as small?

The best I saw you do was trot out models that were bigger, and could be found on discount e-tailers for still over $100. Let's make it a stright-up MSRP to MSRP comparison, too, shall we?

 

[SteveMeister]

The fact is, models of similar size and capacity have screens and other features for the same price or lower. This is a ripoff. No excuses!

People have said the EXACT SAME THING (well, except for the screen part) about every other iPod model. So based on that alone, the iPod shuffle should be a huge success

 

[Willco]

People have said the EXACT SAME THING (well, except for the screen part) about every other iPod model. So based on that alone, the iPod shuffle should be a huge success

Except smart guy, as I've already said, THE IPOD IS THE EASIEST TO USE AND NAVIGATE YOUR MUSIC WITH NO OTHER PLAYER COMES CLOSE.

LEARN TO READ.

 

[SteveMeister]

Except smart guy, as I've already said, THE IPOD IS THE EASIEST TO USE AND NAVIGATE YOUR MUSIC WITH NO OTHER PLAYER COMES CLOSE.

LEARN TO READ.

Hey, back off. I was just pointing out the humorous irony in your statement.

 

[Willco]

Wilco, where's the comprably small 512MB flash player that's also a mem stick, under $100, and as small?

You're not going to find players that are smaller and match all of the iPod Shuffle dimensions, but they're off by just millimeters since they have things like replaceable batteries, omg a screen! and FM tuners.

Here are comparable ones:

You can buy the 512MB player for $79.99 on mwave. Enjoy up to 15 hours of digital music with a single AAA battery with 100% skip proof music! This little mp3 player also doubles and triples as a USB flash drive and a digital voice recorder. Dimensions are 3.8 x 1.1 x 0.8 and weighs .8 ounces.

Also available on mwave for $99. 15 continuous hours on a single AAA battery. Features MP3, Windows Media file and Windows Media-based DRM file playback, FM radio and voice recording and can double as a USB data storage device. Dimensions are 2.96 x 1.28 x .82 and weighs 39.7 grams.

Available online for $108 to $110 on a variety of sites. MuVo® TX FM is an ultra-light (1.1oz without battery), high-performance and easy to use Digital Audio Player that also plays and records FM Radio. Perfectly designed for flawless performance during exercise or other rigorous activity, MuVo® TX FM comes with 512MB of flash memory that can carry hours of skip free, high-fidelity music. 16 hours of playback and can be used as a memory stick. Dimensions are 1.4 x 2.9 x 0.9 and weighs 1.1 ounces.

The best I saw you do was trot out models that were bigger, and could be found on discount e-tailers for still over $100? Let's make it a stright-up MSRP to MSRP comparison, too, shall we?

Why do MSRP when most non-Apple companies don't force people to sell the units by MSRP? That's stupid. It's not everyone else's fault that Apple enforces strict pricing on their products.

You can get an iRiver H320 for $180 at Best Buy stores, yet it retails for $250+ on some sites and cheaper on others. That's the beauty of not being Apple.

 

[sc0la]

still trying to decide if I want one, would have been more appealing in college, but still 100 is manageable for me and I love the simple integration and use of the product. having all my music or selecting it directly isn't really that big of a deal to me as it was before I got my laptop.

The only thing this will suck for is road trips, but by then maybe I can afford a bigger model and have different uses for both.

but I can't afford one this week so it gives me time to actually decide.

 

[Macam]

I never said there is no market. I said the market already exists and is being done better by other manufactuerers.

Perhaps on a feature-to-feature comparison, but the fragmentation of the market begs to argue that other manufacturers aren't doing 'it' necessarily better. Like it or not, dominant companies that rise to success tend to do so not from being the most feature-laden or the first to market, but by a combination of market forces that end up with the right combination. Apple's sleek design, iPod brand name, heavy marketing, and software integration with iTunes (which is massively popular and available on the vast majority of computers today) will probably propel the iPod Shuffle into capturing the remaining 29% of the portable music market that they're aiming at as noted in the Keynote.

Cutting out the screen is a cost-cutting measure, but it's obviously a design choice first -- and one that works. You may loathe the idea of it, but for every you, there's a me. The reason I'm tracking one down is that I'm simply looking for an inexpensive, potentially expendable music player, that's easy to use for working out...and here it is. The iPod Shuffle offers me software integration, basic functionality, and, best of all, it doubles as a USB 2.0 drive; comparable rates for a 1GB USB 2.0 drive around $100, and I manage to land a sleek little music app on top of it for a bit more. The shuffling is largely irrelevant; that's just a marketing technique, which is fine by me. It's not the reason I'll be getting it, and I suspect a lot of other people won't be getting it so they can shuffle their music either.

 

[Forsete]

Not me.. I dont have an MP3 player yet, I was thinking of getting the Creative one at first, but now I'll just wait for the PSP + 512MB card.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Hmm, that BUSlink looks like the first real contender.

The MUVO is much larger, and more expensive at most outlets (I used Amazon as a benchmark).

As far as MSRP, that's because a new product hasn't had a chance to be discounted yet. Which isn't really fair either, since Apple products are never discounted as much.... but they do come down a little when you look around.

Extra features like voice recording aren't really the issue here. How many people decide on a player for that?

======

(Just looked up the BUSlink on Amazon and it's $135 there. Did you just happen to find a closeout price? Here's the reader review:

Its ok, but not the best, January 7, 2005

Reviewer: Steven E. Johnson - See all my reviews

This is a good MP3 player, but it has some down sides. I paid 90 for it in december 04, so i really can't be upset, but it lacks features. I went from the iriver to this and when you compare the features, it is weak. Pro: 512 space for a great price. USB Flash Drive. Easy to use. Cons: It doesnt have a auto resume. so if you shut it off, and want to replay the song, it will start from the beginning again. The battery Life is terrible. It lasted 4 hours on the batteries that it came with. I was soo mad that i brought some doller batteries hoping that they would last me an additional hour because i needed music to get home, and they lasted 30 minutes. Now i use rechargeables and when i put them in, the battery life jumps to half. These arent cheap batteries, but Energizer. It will not give you a low battery warning ether, it will just cut off. It will not display the full title name if it is long, no Sub folders, The list could go on. It is a good mp3 player, but dont expect alot. I'm Glad i only paid 90, instead of 120.

I remain unconvinced that the iPod Shuffle isn't a good and rational purchase for a decent-sized population. And that's not even considering the iTunes compatibility or ITMS support and AAC.

 

[Manics]

Perhaps on a feature-to-feature comparison, but the fragmentation of the market begs to argue that other manufacturers aren't doing 'it' necessarily better. Like it or not, dominant companies that rise to success tend to do so not from being the most feature-laden or the first to market, but by a combination of market forces that end up with the right combination.

You've hit it on the head. Add to the fact that an entire industry has sprung up around the iPod brand in the form of accessories and it's poised to get in there and make a huge dent in the flash-based market. I can walk into any electronic store (and some non-electronic stores ) and see a plethora of accessories for the iPod -- much more so than ANY other brand out there. Hell Sony even made a white version of their earbuds to market to people who want the white headphones for their iPods!

 

[Willco]

Hmm, that BUSlink looks like the first real contender.

The MUVO is much larger, and more expensive at most outlets (I used Amazon as a benchmark).

Not really. It's about half as short, but twice as thick. It's just squished down. And it's two ounces heavier.

Extra features like voice recording aren't really the issue here. How many people decide on a player for that?

I don't consider LCD SCREENS and FM TUNER "extra, unnecessary" features. They're standard. It's stupid for the iPod shuffle not to have them.

(Just looked up the BUSlink on Amazon and it's $130 there. Did you just happen to find a closeout price? Here's the reader review:

It's selling for cheaper than $130 everywhere and it's not the closeout price. Apparently BUSlink sold like gangbusters through the holiday and they're completely out of stock.

Nice pick on the reader review, because I just went to Amazon and they've got ones that say the complete opposite, as well.

I remain unconvinced that the iPod Shuffle isn't a good and rational purchase for a decent-sized population. And that's not even considering the iTunes compatibility or ITMS support and AAC.

It takes seconds to convert anything from iTunes and AAC to a compatible format. It's not hard at all. I mean, if you're a complete re-re that can't use anything other than iTunes, then yes, buy the iPod shuffle.

It's not a good and rational perchase when you consider the performance to price ratio. No screen. No FM tuner. 12 hours of battery life. Not replaceable either. Not extra features. The iPod shuffle is actually a ripoff at $100.

... I'm not quite sure why you ignored the Sandisk, which actually weighs less than the iPod Shuffle and about the same size in terms of mass (a bit shorter in length, a bit thicker in width).

 

[Macam]

As far as MSRP, that's because a new product hasn't had a chance to be discounted yet. Which isn't really fair either, since Apple products are never discounted as much.... but they do come down a little when you look around.

Speaking of Apple discounts, in case you're not aware, any of you who are students and/or work for the government (or know someone who does) can qualify for some pretty nice cuts on Apple software and hardware. If you to Apple's online store, on the right hand side you can choose Education and Government stores, and after entering the required data, you'll get discounted prices; there is some limitation to how many hardware devices and how much software you can buy annually, but, like said, there are some nice cuts. Point in case, the 1GB iPod Shuffle comes in at $139 vs. the going rate of $149 (no discount on the 512MB model). Of particular notice is with the recent Cinema Display price slashing, you can use the discounts to cut that back further and get some really slick deals. That is, if you don't utterly abhor Apple, iPod Shuffles, (insert Apple product here).

For the record, FM Tuners can blow me. Radio suuuuucks (here)....unless it's satellite.

 

[fart]

the shuffle is non-expandable right? most of the other players in its price range take cards i believe.

this is the same cheap chinese-made one chip flash mp3 player as everyone else it selling. the only difference is that is has the apple name and a it's white. i am willing to bet you that the shuffle isn't even the same goddamn ps algorithm as the ipod's (which is probably pretty tricky).

 

[sc0la]

a radio tuner it it would be nice so I could listen to npr

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I ignored the sandisk because you didn't say what it was, and I didn't know.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

The Buslink reviews are terrible, generally. I found a couple of positive ones, but mostly negative.

Sandisk seems like the only competitor overall.

 

[GG-Duo]

the shuffle is non-expandable right? most of the other players in its price range take cards i believe.

this is the same cheap chinese-made one chip flash mp3 player as everyone else it selling. the only difference is that is has the apple name and a it's white. i am willing to bet you that the shuffle isn't even the same goddamn ps algorithm as the ipod's (which is probably pretty tricky).

There are some reports that say the shuffle has a better sound than the regular iPod... which goes along with your theory

 

[ElyrionX]

When I first heard of iPod Shuffle, I thought "Awesome!". I own a 3G 20GB iPod but that's just a little too big to be carried around in my pocket. iPod Mini rocks but it's a tad too expensive. So this Shuffle sounded REALLY GOOD to me.

But then, the no-screen thing hit.

WTF????!!!!

ONE GIGABYTE of songs and NO SCREEN?

Luckily for Apple, there will be people stupid enough to take their bait and buy this shit......

Put in a screen and I MIGHT even pay $149 for 1GB.....

 

[Memles]

As someone who uses iTunes reguarly as more or less my stereo, I can say that this is probably the first iPod to intrigue me in any real way. I have no use for 20GB of space when I only have 1000 songs. Something small like this has always been intriguing to me, and combine it with easy interaction with iTunes and a generally good price and I can't not consider it an option. I mean, it would be one thing if that didn't exist, but it does and I view it as an advantage.

I can get one for $178 at the Apple Store with a Student Discount...it isn't much of one, really, but alas. ($11 CDN). Still, for $200 after taxesI'd say it's generally a good little deal. I want its functionality, simple as that.

We'll see how generous my parents are feeling around my birthday. They're going to California without my brother and I, so that's good blackmail stuff.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Taking a break from defending the Shuffle, can somebody explain to me (other than AAC) why somebody would buy an iPod mini?

 

[Willco]

Taking a break from defending the Shuffle, can somebody explain to me (other than AAC) why somebody would buy an iPod mini?

Before the 4G iPod, the Mini was by far, the smallest iPod (and it still is). The 3G was quite bigger.

Why anyone would buy one now is beyond me, since the 4G is just as thin and a bit taller, with more capacity and longer battery life.

 

[Timbuktu]

Really, i think Apple could have done better than this. iPod was groundbreaking, but this doesn't bring anything to the table. I was hoping for Apple to bring the iPod interface to an even smaller device, as hard as that might be. It just doesn't look like they've spent any money on R&D on this, although I'm sure they've done their market research.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Before the 4G iPod, the Mini was by far, the smallest iPod (and it still is). The 3G was quite bigger.

Why anyone would buy one now is beyond me, since the 4G is just as thin and a bit taller, with more capacity and longer battery life.

I guess it's the "It's an iPod" thing, but the cost for what you get was/is pretty extreme, imho. I guess it's either size, or AAC/itunes.

 

[Willco]

I guess it's the "It's an iPod" thing, but the cost for what you get was/is pretty extreme, imho. I guess it's either size, or AAC/itunes.

Well, it was the size. I really don't know why anyone would want one now, but you're probably right. Wait, it comes in different colors!

 

[shantyman]

Well, you got me Willco, but I don't normally read press releases. What they should focus on is this:

iPod shuffle works seamlessly with iTunes’ innovative AutoFill feature which automatically selects songs from a user’s music library to fill up iPod shuffle with just one click.

 

[Manics]

Well, it was the size. I really don't know why anyone would want one now, but you're probably right. Wait, it comes in different colors!

Eventually the form factor will be smaller still and with greater capacity. I'm sure in years will see a "super-mini" that can hold 100 gig.

I got my iPod mini as a gift and I love it. It's still smaller than the 4G (albeit not by much but still noticeable)

 

[bishoptl]

You're not going to find players that are smaller and match all of the iPod Shuffle dimensions, but they're off by just millimeters since they have things like replaceable batteries, omg a screen! and FM tuners.

Here are comparable ones:

You can buy the 512MB player for $79.99 on mwave. Enjoy up to 15 hours of digital music with a single AAA battery with 100% skip proof music! This little mp3 player also doubles and triples as a USB flash drive and a digital voice recorder. Dimensions are 3.8 x 1.1 x 0.8 and weighs .8 ounces.

Also available on mwave for $99. 15 continuous hours on a single AAA battery. Features MP3, Windows Media file and Windows Media-based DRM file playback, FM radio and voice recording and can double as a USB data storage device. Dimensions are 2.96 x 1.28 x .82 and weighs 39.7 grams.

Available online for $108 to $110 on a variety of sites. MuVo® TX FM is an ultra-light (1.1oz without battery), high-performance and easy to use Digital Audio Player that also plays and records FM Radio. Perfectly designed for flawless performance during exercise or other rigorous activity, MuVo® TX FM comes with 512MB of flash memory that can carry hours of skip free, high-fidelity music. 16 hours of playback and can be used as a memory stick. Dimensions are 1.4 x 2.9 x 0.9 and weighs 1.1 ounces.



Why do MSRP when most non-Apple companies don't force people to sell the units by MSRP? That's stupid. It's not everyone else's fault that Apple enforces strict pricing on their products.

You can get an iRiver H320 for $180 at Best Buy stores, yet it retails for $250+ on some sites and cheaper on others. That's the beauty of not being Apple.

Hey, those don't look too bad.

 

[Willco]

Hey, those don't look too bad.

Of all three, I think the Creative MuVo is the best bang for the buck. iRiver also sells a flash-based player that is simply awesome for its market, but more expensive.

It's iRiver, so you know it has features like laser-targeting, nitro, etc.

 

[Crazymoogle]

Of all three, I think the Creative MuVo is the best bang for the buck. iRiver also sells a flash-based player that is simply awesome for its market, but more expensive.

It all depends on what you're looking for, too. The iRiver N10 is the only series that comes with a USB plug (and it has a very similar design to the Shuffle), whereas all of the other models require a cable. On the other hand, don't some/all of the iRiver models support stuff like OGG?

In any case, if someone think the MuVo is too large, damn...

...I think this is pretty damn reasonable. The Slim and non-port models are even smaller. It's not set up to be worn around the neck, but it's awesome for belt/keychain/armband use.

It's iRiver, so you know it has features like laser-targeting, nitro, etc.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[cybamerc]

The Muvo TX is ugly though. The Muvo V200 and Muvo Micro N200 look much nicer. They're also not as long as the iPod shuffle.

 

[Willco]

The Muvo TX is ugly though. The Muvo V200 and Muvo Micro N200 look much nicer. They're also not as long as the iPod shuffle.

Unfortunately, they're also about $20 more than the iPod shuffle, so Apple apologists can point to the price difference as why the iPod shuffle is better, rather than realize that you're paying for a quality product.

 

[cybamerc]

Unfortunately, they're also about $20 more than the iPod shuffle, so Apple apologists can point to the price difference as why the iPod shuffle is better, rather than realize that you're paying for a quality product.

Well, it is attractively priced IMO. An Apple product that is priced below the competition is somewhat surprising. As for the lack of screen, it may not be important to some people. If you're one of those people who only listen to whatever garbage is played on MTV and commercial radio stations I doubt being able to easily find a particular track is high on the priority list.

Personally, I'm glad I got the V200 and didn't wait for the iPod shuffle. But I have no doubt Apple will make lots of money on that thing.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I never said those were bad products, just that some people are going to bite at $100 and not $120.

 

[Memles]

As for the lack of screen, it may not be important to some people.

If I want to listen to an album on it, I can simply put on that album to the iPod Shuffle. If I want to listen to multiple albums, it's a different issue, but I don't really do that too often. The simple ability to upload my playlists as I want to leaves the screen as kind of a "meh" issue.

 

[cybamerc]

Memles:

> The simple ability to upload my playlists as I want to leaves the screen as kind of
> a "meh" issue.

That's also one thing to consider. The flash based Muvo players don't support playlists. The iPod shuffle may be kinda bare bones but what it does I'm sure it does well.

 

[sc0la]

Forgot I still had an IOU for a 100$ equivilent birthday present from my parents from last week. That pretty much solves it, I will be ordering it tonight or tomorrow morning.

 

[ckohler]

This device's sole design is to load the digital music automatically and let the user just concentrate on listening. The market for these devices doesn't want feature bloat in the form of illegible tiny screens, complex music navigation, lousy sounding FM radios, and constant dry-cell battery replacement. They just want a digital music player that is easy, simple and cheap. That is why this will sell.

The "Shuffle" mentality isn't a scapegoat. It been proven to be the preferred way to listen to digital music on an iPod. That's why Apple built the whole device around that. Why is that so hard to believe?

 

[Manics]

That's also one thing to consider. The flash based Muvo players don't support playlists. The iPod shuffle may be kinda bare bones but what it does I'm sure it does well.

They don't support playlists? WTF? I know nothing about the Muvo line, but why would they leave that out with all the other "standard" features included?

 

[Dilbert]

It's a stupid move by Apple, I've voiced my displeasure, but defensive posters seem to be upset.

...

I'm glad Apple makes different iPod products for different needs, but this is a shitty product when superior players already exist which was something Apple really avoided until now. ... Quite frankly, with the lack of anything in the iPod Shuffle, Apple is just ripping off everyone.

...

There is simply no excuse for no screen. Really, there isn't. Anyone who defends that is an idiot.

...

The iPod Shuffle isn't going to create a market when it's already there and is being done better by other manufacturers. Of course people will buy it. I really don't give a shit. A lot of people buy Ashlee Simpson records. That doesn't make her good.

Shit, I don't even know where to start.

What's going to determine if it's a "stupid move" by Apple or not? The sales numbers and profit numbers in the next few months are going to make that judgment, and all other measures of the product are flat-out stupid to make. I'm sorry, but if it ends up selling in droves, I will find it extremely hard to believe that the lack of screen is a "design flaw." Don't even get me started on the "Apple is ripping people off" comment -- if people are willing to buy tons of product X at its current price, then either the price is set perfectly...or it's even too low. The only thing which defines the "goodness" of a product in the marketplace is whether or not it sells.

 

[Desperado]

They don't support playlists? WTF? I know nothing about the Muvo line, but why would they leave that out with all the other "standard" features included?

what do you mean by playlists? you can create folders and organize stuff that way...

 

[Willco]

Shit, I don't even know where to start.

What's going to determine if it's a "stupid move" by Apple or not? The sales numbers and profit numbers in the next few months are going to make that judgment, and all other measures of the product are flat-out stupid to make. I'm sorry, but if it ends up selling in droves, I will find it extremely hard to believe that the lack of screen is a "design flaw." Don't even get me started on the "Apple is ripping people off" comment -- if people are willing to buy tons of product X at its current price, then either the price is set perfectly...or it's even too low. The only thing which defines the "goodness" of a product in the marketplace is whether or not it sells.

No.

Tell that to all the masterfully designed stuff that doesn't sell. Not because they're not good, but because of lack of brand recognition, marketing or whatever. There's a good vocal majority that thinks iRiver makes amazing products and none come close to what Apple sells, simply because they're iRiver.

Just because something sells doesn't make it a good deal. It definitely doesn't make it a good product.

Again, it's a ripoff. Apple should actually lower their price point. It's competitive in price alone with other players, but it also incredibly stripped down. It's a bunch of bullshit.

Steve Jobs could probably sell a brick that carried 3 GB of music with no screen and forced you to buy a separate adapter for headphones and glowed in the dark, call it the iPod Glow and it'd sell millions of units.

It'll sell because it's iPod. Not because it fits people's needs or is a good product. There are other products in the same market that do the same thing in the same price range with a fucking screen and standard issue features.

 

[Mrjellybeanct]

Anyone know if the Apple stores have these IPods in yet? I was thinking about driving over and checking it out, but it's not really that close. As I said in the other thread I have a HiMD player that works great, but I would like something cheap and itunes compatable since the mini disc dosen't even work with my Powerbook.